ZzEP / Vader / Thrawn / Shore / GK is easily beating all CLS L squad (all G12 except GK G11 and 6*) in my arena.
For RJT this is another story. I see the video above but I would say that Poe is certainly not the best choice, if you put OB instead of Poe then it is a lot more difficult.
RJT will still be the dominating squad however CLS L should fade out with these reworks.
This will bring diversity to the arena and I personally think this is a great news.
Don’t listen to the game changers, I am not sure they fully understand that the game is not all about arena. Zz EP and the new Vader will be crucial in TW (not mentioning TB) to get rid of these CLS wall.
I do not regret at all my double zeta on Palp and I will zeta Vader next.
I am still using RJT in Arena with the IT and the EP L
My posts was removed. Apparently they don't like people pointing out how bad these reworks are.
I'll just mention again that Vader's turnmeter immunity does not work. He loses partial turnmeter, full turnmeter... Would be great if it worked, but no.
Maybe it doesn't matter since nothing happens when he hits his basic. And his AOE is just cleansed immediately.
First, I am excited about the EP/Vader rework. Anything to increase the viability of two iconic toons is excellent.
Second, I’m not passing judgement on the effectiveness of these reworks because they just went into effect and it takes time for people to find the best combos.
But, I just don’t see these reworks having any arena meta impact. JTR is meta. Do these reworks make for teams that (1) beat JTR more easily than other teams? (2) do these teams defend better than JTR teams? If the answer to either question is no, then I feel these updates were inadequate.
Finally, in response to those who point out the apparent contradiction of “anyone can beat anyone in offense” and “JTR defends better,” I offer my situation as an example. My team finishes top5 daily, and rarely leaves the top20. There are 3 JTR teams than I can beat only about 2/3 of the time. I can beat them, and do beat them, but sometimes RNG is not my friend. Every other squad is more like a 98% win ratio. So, guess which teams I avoid when I’m in a hurry or short on attacks? That’s what defending well means in the arena. None of these Vader/EP teams are likely going to “defend well” in that sense. I’d hoped for better.
First, I am excited about the EP/Vader rework. Anything to increase the viability of two iconic toons is excellent.
Second, I’m not passing judgement on the effectiveness of these reworks because they just went into effect and it takes time for people to find the best combos.
But, I just don’t see these reworks having any arena meta impact. JTR is meta. Do these reworks make for teams that (1) beat JTR more easily than other teams? (2) do these teams defend better than JTR teams? If the answer to either question is no, then I feel these updates were inadequate.
Finally, in response to those who point out the apparent contradiction of “anyone can beat anyone in offense” and “JTR defends better,” I offer my situation as an example. My team finishes top5 daily, and rarely leaves the top20. There are 3 JTR teams than I can beat only about 2/3 of the time. I can beat them, and do beat them, but sometimes RNG is not my friend. Every other squad is more like a 98% win ratio. So, guess which teams I avoid when I’m in a hurry or short on attacks? That’s what defending well means in the arena. None of these Vader/EP teams are likely going to “defend well” in that sense. I’d hoped for better.
I understand what you mean. But the key of arena is finding your shard chat so you are not fighting each other at payouts. On this basis it doesn’t matter if this RJT / CLS / EP / NS, it is a question of rota of who is going first.
Arena is all about cooperation and not really the squad you use.
Would like to see this as a thread by itself. I think people are likely just going to overlook this here.
Thats fine let them fall behind. A couple of big dogs in my guild figured it out already even though this isn't one of their vids. They run this same combo.
Not sure if arena was made for cooperation, should be just total war in my opinion
This is a respectable opinion however it does save a lot of crystals to cooperate ... why attacking peoples at the same payout ? ...
War is never a good option imo.
Reason and comunication is better
First, I am excited about the EP/Vader rework. Anything to increase the viability of two iconic toons is excellent.
Second, I’m not passing judgement on the effectiveness of these reworks because they just went into effect and it takes time for people to find the best combos.
But, I just don’t see these reworks having any arena meta impact. JTR is meta. Do these reworks make for teams that (1) beat JTR more easily than other teams? (2) do these teams defend better than JTR teams? If the answer to either question is no, then I feel these updates were inadequate.
Finally, in response to those who point out the apparent contradiction of “anyone can beat anyone in offense” and “JTR defends better,” I offer my situation as an example. My team finishes top5 daily, and rarely leaves the top20. There are 3 JTR teams than I can beat only about 2/3 of the time. I can beat them, and do beat them, but sometimes RNG is not my friend. Every other squad is more like a 98% win ratio. So, guess which teams I avoid when I’m in a hurry or short on attacks? That’s what defending well means in the arena. None of these Vader/EP teams are likely going to “defend well” in that sense. I’d hoped for better.
I don't understand why you expected these reworks to make them beat Rey more easily or defend better than Rey teams, but they did make Vader and palp competitive in top arena again. I'd call it solid rework
I find it hilarious people still call the rework crap and we just saw it auto a #1 JTR squad. Sure it had Poe in there but it would have probably been easier if it was CLS or RH in there because they count as a rebel and get stunned anyways.
A big dog in my guild (Villains 1, we are a 3 tier guild) said he runs EP, DV, DN, Thrawn, GK and says other JTRs are having trouble beating him. He literally posted a Line message of a shard mate requesting him put a different squad in so their JTR could rank for payout lol. So believe what you want, but most people probably haven't maxed out these squads like he has so you have zero idea what they do.
I find it hilarious people still call the rework **** and we just saw it auto a #1 JTR squad. Sure it had Poe in there but it would have probably been easier if it was CLS or RH in there because they count as a rebel and get stunned anyways.
I am not criticizing the rework, but I am skeptical. I have no doubt that dozens of combos can beat a JTR squad. How well do those combos defend? Will people target them because they are a sure thing win, every time?
Personally, I’d love a situation where one squad, such as NS can beat JTR and JTR really struggles vs NS. Then, similar situations for Empire leads vs CLS, Jedi vs Droids etc. True variety would be awesome, but it would require teams to have real weaknesses, even the teams that require significant resource investment ($$$). Just one player’s opinion.
Give it time and you'll notice that players that didn't jump on the vader/palp bandwagon will still do fine in arena. Just like the players without cmdr luke or rey for that matter.
I find it hilarious people still call the rework **** and we just saw it auto a #1 JTR squad. Sure it had Poe in there but it would have probably been easier if it was CLS or RH in there because they count as a rebel and get stunned anyways.
I am not criticizing the rework, but I am skeptical. I have no doubt that dozens of combos can beat a JTR squad. How well do those combos defend? Will people target them because they are a sure thing win, every time?
Personally, I’d love a situation where one squad, such as NS can beat JTR and JTR really struggles vs NS. Then, similar situations for Empire leads vs CLS, Jedi vs Droids etc. True variety would be awesome, but it would require teams to have real weaknesses, even the teams that require significant resource investment ($$$). Just one player’s opinion.
Did you just see my post about my guildmate who asked him to take out his EP/DV because JTR couldn't beat it? So... yes with the right combo defense is BETTER.
Give it time and you'll notice that players that didn't jump on the vader/palp bandwagon will still do fine in arena. Just like the players without cmdr luke or rey for that matter.
People also said JTR would never outpace CLS. I'll sit back and eat popcorn again.
Give it time and you'll notice that players that didn't jump on the vader/palp bandwagon will still do fine in arena. Just like the players without cmdr luke or rey for that matter.
People also said JTR would never outpace CLS. I'll sit back and eat popcorn again.
Yet people without JTR did/do just fine in arena. You were using a maul lead team and doing just fine.. So yea, not sure why you're preaching that people should use palp/vader otherwise they would fall behind. You're living proof that it doesn't matter at all.
I find it hilarious people still call the rework **** and we just saw it auto a #1 JTR squad. Sure it had Poe in there but it would have probably been easier if it was CLS or RH in there because they count as a rebel and get stunned anyways.
I am not criticizing the rework, but I am skeptical
Did you just see my post about my guildmate who asked him to take out his EP/DV because JTR couldn't beat it? So... yes with the right combo defense is BETTER.
Actually, I didn’t before I drafted my last comment. I’m not saying you are wrong, and I want you to be right. I’d love to see this added to the 3 or 4 meta teams. I’m just skeptical. Either way, I liked the video and am happy to see folks succeeding with different combos. Good luck out there.
Before the update, my EP shocked the rivals almost always. Now, shock rarely happens.
Before the update, I considered bad luck when his AoE stun only affected 2 rivals. Now, it often stuns noone.
The nerf has been brutal for non-zeta EP.
When I first read about the revamp, I was excited. But after trying him, I've decided not to waste a zeta on him. Maybe those problems disappear with the zetas, but zeta materials are so hard to get that I won't take the risk.
Looks like he will be a DSTB-only toon from now on. Very disappointing.
Before the update, my EP shocked the rivals almost always. Now, shock rarely happens.
Before the update, I considered bad luck when his AoE stun only affected 2 rivals. Now, it often stuns noone.
The nerf has been brutal for non-zeta EP.
When I first read about the revamp, I was excited. But after trying him, I've decided not to waste a zeta on him. Maybe those problems disappear with the zetas, but zeta materials are so hard to get that I won't take the risk.
Looks like he will be a DSTB-only toon from now on. Very disappointing.
What nerf? His zetas don't affect shocks or stuns? I'm personally not jumping on either side of the fence atm. Will see how things play out.
Before the update, my EP shocked the rivals almost always. Now, shock rarely happens.
Before the update, I considered bad luck when his AoE stun only affected 2 rivals. Now, it often stuns noone.
The nerf has been brutal for non-zeta EP.
When I first read about the revamp, I was excited. But after trying him, I've decided not to waste a zeta on him. Maybe those problems disappear with the zetas, but zeta materials are so hard to get that I won't take the risk.
Looks like he will be a DSTB-only toon from now on. Very disappointing.
What nerf? His zetas don't affect shocks or stuns? I'm personally not jumping on either side of the fence atm. Will see how things play out.
I've been using an EP-lead empire team on GW for months. I've never had any problems with stun or shock. After the update, the reduction of shocks and stuns is huge. It can't be denied, there has been a nerf.
Replies
Would like to see this as a thread by itself. I think people are likely just going to overlook this here.
For RJT this is another story. I see the video above but I would say that Poe is certainly not the best choice, if you put OB instead of Poe then it is a lot more difficult.
RJT will still be the dominating squad however CLS L should fade out with these reworks.
This will bring diversity to the arena and I personally think this is a great news.
Don’t listen to the game changers, I am not sure they fully understand that the game is not all about arena. Zz EP and the new Vader will be crucial in TW (not mentioning TB) to get rid of these CLS wall.
I do not regret at all my double zeta on Palp and I will zeta Vader next.
I am still using RJT in Arena with the IT and the EP L
Love
A) get WAY more health and protection
Boost these base stats and then you've done him justice.
I'll just mention again that Vader's turnmeter immunity does not work. He loses partial turnmeter, full turnmeter... Would be great if it worked, but no.
Maybe it doesn't matter since nothing happens when he hits his basic. And his AOE is just cleansed immediately.
I agree they need more speed health protection and damage to actually become viable.
Second, I’m not passing judgement on the effectiveness of these reworks because they just went into effect and it takes time for people to find the best combos.
But, I just don’t see these reworks having any arena meta impact. JTR is meta. Do these reworks make for teams that (1) beat JTR more easily than other teams? (2) do these teams defend better than JTR teams? If the answer to either question is no, then I feel these updates were inadequate.
Finally, in response to those who point out the apparent contradiction of “anyone can beat anyone in offense” and “JTR defends better,” I offer my situation as an example. My team finishes top5 daily, and rarely leaves the top20. There are 3 JTR teams than I can beat only about 2/3 of the time. I can beat them, and do beat them, but sometimes RNG is not my friend. Every other squad is more like a 98% win ratio. So, guess which teams I avoid when I’m in a hurry or short on attacks? That’s what defending well means in the arena. None of these Vader/EP teams are likely going to “defend well” in that sense. I’d hoped for better.
I get first everyday and don't even loose a toon on battle. My shard mates are complaining how hard is to beat them and NS can't even win on offense.
I understand what you mean. But the key of arena is finding your shard chat so you are not fighting each other at payouts. On this basis it doesn’t matter if this RJT / CLS / EP / NS, it is a question of rota of who is going first.
Arena is all about cooperation and not really the squad you use.
Therefore in arena defense is not that important.
Thats fine let them fall behind. A couple of big dogs in my guild figured it out already even though this isn't one of their vids. They run this same combo.
This is a respectable opinion however it does save a lot of crystals to cooperate ... why attacking peoples at the same payout ? ...
War is never a good option imo.
Reason and comunication is better
I don't understand why you expected these reworks to make them beat Rey more easily or defend better than Rey teams, but they did make Vader and palp competitive in top arena again. I'd call it solid rework
Naysayers are going to fall behind.
they beat others, others beat them. Falling behind? meh, probably not.
A big dog in my guild (Villains 1, we are a 3 tier guild) said he runs EP, DV, DN, Thrawn, GK and says other JTRs are having trouble beating him. He literally posted a Line message of a shard mate requesting him put a different squad in so their JTR could rank for payout lol. So believe what you want, but most people probably haven't maxed out these squads like he has so you have zero idea what they do.
https://swgoh.gg/u/smokeyekoms/
I am not criticizing the rework, but I am skeptical. I have no doubt that dozens of combos can beat a JTR squad. How well do those combos defend? Will people target them because they are a sure thing win, every time?
Personally, I’d love a situation where one squad, such as NS can beat JTR and JTR really struggles vs NS. Then, similar situations for Empire leads vs CLS, Jedi vs Droids etc. True variety would be awesome, but it would require teams to have real weaknesses, even the teams that require significant resource investment ($$$). Just one player’s opinion.
Did you just see my post about my guildmate who asked him to take out his EP/DV because JTR couldn't beat it? So... yes with the right combo defense is BETTER.
People also said JTR would never outpace CLS. I'll sit back and eat popcorn again.
Yet people without JTR did/do just fine in arena. You were using a maul lead team and doing just fine.. So yea, not sure why you're preaching that people should use palp/vader otherwise they would fall behind. You're living proof that it doesn't matter at all.
Before the update, I considered bad luck when his AoE stun only affected 2 rivals. Now, it often stuns noone.
The nerf has been brutal for non-zeta EP.
When I first read about the revamp, I was excited. But after trying him, I've decided not to waste a zeta on him. Maybe those problems disappear with the zetas, but zeta materials are so hard to get that I won't take the risk.
Looks like he will be a DSTB-only toon from now on. Very disappointing.
What nerf? His zetas don't affect shocks or stuns? I'm personally not jumping on either side of the fence atm. Will see how things play out.
I've been using an EP-lead empire team on GW for months. I've never had any problems with stun or shock. After the update, the reduction of shocks and stuns is huge. It can't be denied, there has been a nerf.