So... the monthly log in char... who presumably IS the monthly log in char because he'd be good in the raid (though even as I type this that statement seems to give the devs too much credit), is being nerfed? Surprise, surprise. I note that Jedi Training Rey is not being nerfed even though she is also doing incredibly well in the raid... Guess it.just won't do to have a F2P toon with any value.
You missed the part where they’re nerfing expose damage?
Ok I stand corrected, but is that supposed to make me feel better? What's the point of even trying team combinations now? If we find anything that workstoo well it will get an immediate fix lol. There are bugs in the game that go on FOREVER and don't get addressed. One of the fun things about raids (I'd argue the ONLY fun thing about them) used to be theorycrafting... now.its just another thing to put on auto.
Doing this, you take away any reason of us to trusting you... You nerf a bunch of caracters, affects the exposes and change abilities like nothing...
You are disrespecting all users, from f2p to whales, make them think that they daily effort is worthless
You change all this for the players, but you give nothing to us, nor the possibility to change a Zeta from a caracter that you make useless with this changes to one that could be more effective to the player and the game.
We should accept any decision you take either like us or not, but you never take the responsibility for making mistakes in the development of the game.
It´is disappointing to see your lack of commitment to the player who make you what you are today
CG you guys are putting a noose around your own neck with the garbage you are shelling out. The raid rewards are absolutely garbage. One gets a bunch of trash that isn't needed id say a good 95% of the time. That said you roll out a new raid that basically limits you to run 1-2 squads for good damage and then you announce you will nerf those teams. Jackass that's all that comes to mind. Make it harder to get garbage rewards. You guys are real winners hence the backlash you are getting. As you should. Savvy.
What's the point of reducing the amount of damage that Expose does in Raid bosses, when it was just 0.04% to start with? I can understand the nerfing of STHan's mechanic, but this just damages the relationship you have with your hardcore/serious players of the game. Leave Expose alone and let us figure out the best ways to beat the raids.
I for one am happy with the changes in the raid. For those of you who went and put a zeta on Ventress because you wanted to take part in using the broken STHan team then that's your fault and don't deserve your zetas refunded. Seriously, did you not think this was going to happen when that team was publicized? A little bit of common sense goes a long way and wanting your mistakes refunded because of lack of said common sense is just juvenile.
brown noser huh.... One doesn't get any rewards for kissing someone's behind or holding CG's back pocket. A little common sense goes a long way when brown nosing huh... Hahaha ah these suckers I tell ya. (Thinking out loud)
As someone who doesn’t fully understand, even after playing for a year now, all the mechanics....I do know this is crap. So we found a weakness...big deal. Our guild is small, we can’t finish Haat. Changing something to make raids harder hurts the little guys who just want to have fun in the game and maybe, just maybe...one day get Kenobi or Han. It took us 5 days to clear DN. Traya is taking almost as long. I think the real issue is that players out thought the devs and that isn’t acceptable.
I see a lot of "you're nerfing the exposes in all raids!" thing and no one even knows how this will play out yet. @CG_RyDiggs said the impact on HAAT and Rancor would be minimal. If you can only do 28m in HAAT instead of 29m, is that really the worst thing that has happened in the history of gaming?
Yeah it would suck if my boss forced me to take a pay cut. But a 0.05% pay cut and a 50% pay cut aren't the same thing.
Can someone even explain how this is a problem in P3? I get P4, but in P3 won't Traya get a turn before too long and just blow all your team away with one shot?
'Balance' will occur when RJT is 'fixed' at the same time as STHan is 'fixed'. Without both fixes in place, there's nothing balanced about it.
Fix=nerf
In this context, at least. If anything the initial impression is that they want to run RJT into the ground if STHan is nerfed.
@swgohfan29 I stand by the statements I made regarding balance. And although I am shocked they actually did it, I offer kudos for their commitment to consistency.
Now, for the sake of consistancy regarding the dev's freshly stated intents.... the infinite TM reduction loop in the Pit needs to be closed just like the infinite TM gain loop needed to be closed in the Sith raid. Addressing one without addressing the other wouldn't be appropriate.
I for one am happy with the changes in the raid. For those of you who went and put a zeta on Ventress because you wanted to take part in using the broken STHan team then that's your fault and don't deserve your zetas refunded. Seriously, did you not think this was going to happen when that team was publicized? A little bit of common sense goes a long way and wanting your mistakes refunded because of lack of said common sense is just juvenile.
brown noser huh.... One doesn't get any rewards for kissing someone's behind or holding CG's back pocket. A little common sense goes a long way when brown nosing huh... Hahaha ah these suckers I tell ya. (Thinking out loud)
I'm not looking for rewards or brownnosing at all. I'm just appalled at how many fools thought this clear exploit would last long and decided to zeta a character for it. Sorry for not jumping on the hate train like yourself. Too bad you aren't one of the people who actually has a brain around here.
@CG_RyDiggs say what you will, I’ve spent around $15k on this game in the last 11 months. I’ve always wondered what would make me stop spending. You finally found it. Nerfing the exposes on all raids is laziness bc you all never added separate tags or parameters for the different raid bosses and just lumped them into one. A lot of people above have “do you even test anything?” You clearly don’t. You’re so worrieud about small info leaks that you never have actual players test this for you, then you throw it at us in a big mess of a near live beta. These cheese STHan teams aren’t going to make this raid accessible to a huge number of people more than it would have already but you all just can’t handle that. You have zero integrity as a company. You should fix bugs and work on new content. Not hide behind some garbage philosophy of “we didn’t test this and unfortunately it’s not as hard and un-fun as we wanted.”
Let me put this out there for you and believe I’m not alone: nerf all the exposes and make this thing even more tedious and not fun than it is now and you can consider my spending on this game nerfed too.
You’re all the worst. The single reaction to any problem that’s seemed reasonable was when you lowered the reqs. for the Capt solo/Leia Mission in LSTB. Remember that? The game didn’t implode when you were reasonable. I’ve always tried to see things from the devs perspective and a lot of times, I do. I see the business side of it. Right now though, you’re all being a$$es. Period.
Agreed.
While I have not personally spent as much as that, I have spent around $500 in the last month. Usually in about $300. I now manage a guild that just cleared the HAAT thanks to my push to have them develop their Resistance Team. My leadership in my guild has encouraged recent spending from the FTP players, and increased spending from the Dolphins. Not anymore.
We just had a guild meeting. We are withholding any further funds as a guild until we determine that this change does not impact the HAAT. If it does the moratorium on spending will become a moratorium on the game and EA.
It has been said before but to re-iterate as it needs to be seen -
The main issue with the exposes on JTR teams is not the expose itself; it is the fact that the expose is non-resistible. As others have noted, the lack of diversity is not due to the fact that JTR has a non-resistible expose, it is because Nihilus counters almost every other type of build.
A simple change like "gains 25% tenacity every damage" instead of "gains 50%" might allow Zader and other debuff teams to work just better enough that one doesn't require the "un-resistible" tag. The other major issue with him is the basic-protection mechanic. While good in theory, it removes all "assists" based teams. Perhaps lowering his potency so that only 50% defense down lands on most toons would make this better.
I very much like the idea of the speed increase per damage and the no escape to remove the gimmicky teams from other raids, but Nihilus has too many counters to other mechanics in the game.
TLDR - Expose isn't stifling diversity/creativity , 50% tenacity up on Nihilus and Protection on basics is stifling them.
Edit: I also think the 50% tenacity is fine for Phase 2 or 3 would be okay. Different teams for different phases is both great marketing/business and fine by most of the player base, but Nihilus is the real problem.
Agree with pretty much everything in the McMole2 vid. I will say that every bit of excitement I felt with the new raid has been completely deflated by it bring a JTR show. I agree with the nerf to STH I mean a team being able to do 111 mil damage in a raid (which I have seen) is stupid crazy and needs to be fixed however the way this raid is setup currently there isn't any other **** team to use that's worth a crap than JTR and now they want to nerf her team. Plus nerf a bunch of other teams that while they weren't putting out crazy damage like a STH team and were not doing anything near a JTR team. The only teams we had to even feel like we are contributing. It completely makes me not give a **** about this new sith raid. I quite frankly could care less at this point if I even try it it anymore. There is a point where you make something so challenging that nobody cares to even attempt it. I agree with making a raid challenging but this is complete overkill, and the fact that people are having to use something that is complete over kill to combat it should be proof enough that this raid is completely insane. I have completely stopped caring about this stupid Sith raid and I might put a couple of teams in here and there and put it on auto and let them score whatever the heck they are gonna score and be done with it. I have lost all desire to figure this stupid thing out. I am also losing any desire to figure out anything in this game anymore since now you want to go back and "fix" other raids that have been running this way forever. changing expose damage across all raids is not cool to me. Too me this Sith raid has had the exact opposite effect on me for the game then it was intended. Instead of bringing more excitement to the game it just made it more depressing and ridiculous. I know the game changers say and have shown the Devs to really care about this game and the community so I will say this to the Devs. This isn't a bash of you or this game I know that your intentions are not this but this new Sith Raid has completely **** all of the fun out of this game and I hope that you guys do something very quickly to address it and what you just did IMO makes things worse not better..... other than STH because I completely understand that needed to be addressed.
Having read through most of this thread and a few others, I think what this really boils down to is that the raid, especially T5 and T6, are a huge slog to finish and the rewards at the finish line don't adequately reflect the effort. When people found ways to make this raid less tedious, CG removed them. So now we're back to a long, tedious multi-day raid.
I'm an officer in a 101M GP guild and we're on day 5 of T5, and have nearly finished phase three (we don't have many JTRs). Before that, we took 3 days just to get 50% of P1 finished before we decided to abandon it. We then did T3 which as a joke (with joke rewards as well). This reminds me of normal AAT before the health was radically adjusted.
My suggestions would be:
Substantially reduce the health pool of T5 and T6, to about half of what it is currently. Nihilus in particular should be reduced more than the others due to his protection reducing the damage that can be done.
Improve the rewards to be more in line with a multi-day effort.
Increase the number of daily attacks that can be done from 5, to perhaps 7-8. Just to get things moving along.
If it didn't take so long to move through the raid I believe fewer people would be upset about changes to STHan and NS Acolyte/Zombie, as they wouldn't be as necessary. Lower health means lower expose damage, and no nerf on that would be required (the damage appears to be directly related to the full boss health - at least, that's what happened to therm det damage in Normal AAT when they nerfed it). Finally, even at half health, it looks like it'll still take our guild 3-5d to finish T5, so the rewards need to be more on par with Territory battles. I enjoy the mechanics of the raid, but they get pretty old after 10 attacks on the same boss. Doing 4M damage is great but if it doesn't progress the raid much, things get stale. And stale things aren't fun. Just my 2c, cheers!
Well, as a top player, in a top guild. All this is continually disappointing. I'm encouraging my community to switch to ftp ASAP, or just play other games.
Can someone even explain how this is a problem in P3? I get P4, but in P3 won't Traya get a turn before too long and just blow all your team away with one shot?
Can someone even explain how this is a problem in P3? I get P4, but in P3 won't Traya get a turn before too long and just blow all your team away with one shot?
Using a Zader or Azajj team can do TM removal, so stacking the turns for all of them, and continually removing TM can keep her from taking that turn and one shotting.
Agree with pretty much everything in the McMole2 vid. I will say that every bit of excitement I felt with the new raid has been completely deflated by it bring a JTR show. I agree with the nerf to STH I mean a team being able to do 111 mil damage in a raid (which I have seen) is **** crazy and needs to be fixed however the way this raid is setup currently there isn't any other **** team to use that's worth a **** than JTR and now they want to nerf her team. Plus nerf a bunch of other teams that while they weren't putting out crazy damage like a STH team and were not doing anything near a JTR team. The only teams we had to even feel like we are contributing. It completely makes me not give a **** about this new sith raid. I quite frankly could care less at this point if I even try it it anymore. There is a point where you make something so challenging that nobody cares to even attempt it. I agree with making a raid challenging but this is complete overkill, and the fact that people are having to use something that is complete over kill to combat it should be proof enough that this raid is completely insane. I have completely stopped caring about this **** Sith raid and I might put a couple of teams in here and there and put it on auto and let them score whatever the heck they are gonna score and be done with it. I have lost all desire to figure this **** thing out. I am also losing any desire to figure out anything in this game anymore since now you want to go back and "fix" other raids that have been running this way forever. changing expose damage across all raids is not cool to me. Too me this Sith raid has had the exact opposite effect on me for the game then it was intended. Instead of bringing more excitement to the game it just made it more depressing and ridiculous. I know the game changers say and have shown the Devs to really care about this game and the community so I will say this to the Devs. This isn't a bash of you or this game I know that your intentions are not this but this new Sith Raid has completely **** all of the fun out of this game and I hope that you guys do something very quickly to address it and what you just did IMO makes things worse not better..... other than STH because I completely understand that needed to be addressed.
People said worse things about AAT raid when it came out. Devs eventually did nerf the Normal difficulty level because it was ridiculous, taking weeks to complete. Some squads were even nerfed because they did not want them to be effective (Nute!). Eventually new characters were released that were able to apply serious damage to the raid.
I don't know what the St Han squad is/was, but it sounds similar to the Wedge lead rebels in HAAT P4 that could survive past Enrage. They changed the AAT raid mechanics to put an end to that as well.
They are clearly trying to follow the same business model here.
Make the raid extremely difficult for existing rosters.
Nerf anything that is too effective (but don't do this until TI gets to have their self-congratulatory world first).
Release new characters that can improve raid performance.
Rewards are player satisfaction with completing the raid and a few shiny trinkets they probably don't need.
The difference is that decently effective squad comps already existed in the game for AAT, all we needed to do was find and gear them. For this raid, they are nerfing anything we find that is remotely effective, but they aren't modifying just the ST raid to counter the effectiveness, they appear to be modifying how these abilities work in all raids. And that's where the problem lies.
This is like buying a new car with a V8, and after driving it around for a year, the dealer shows up at your house and takes back 2 cylinders because they did not realize how fast you could drive with a V8, but don't worry you can still drive it, a V6 is almost as fast.
Man, I feel like we have been down this road before. Several times.
Can we please tweak the rewards for the Sith raid??? We are a level 85, 72mil gp guild and growing. We clear tier 3 sith raid within 2 days. The rewards are AWFUL! We are well past these low level rewards. They really should match the difficulty level, am I right? Anyone else think so???
Can we please tweak the rewards for the Sith raid??? We are a level 85, 72mil gp guild and growing. We clear tier 3 sith raid within 2 days. The rewards are AWFUL! We are well past these low level rewards. They really should match the difficulty level, am I right? Anyone else think so???
We all think so. But clearly the raid rewards are not meant to be anything more than sense of achievement for completing the raid.
Most respectable companies have those kind of employees called "game testers", hence why their games go smoothly when updates arrive and are fixed before **** off the community.
You people panicked because a handful of top guilds managed to complete the heroic tier of the raid? OF COURSE THEY DID! they have tens of thousands of dollars in those accounts. Don't you think they should have some advantage for building your houses and buying you cars and expensive clothing?
And no, i'm not in one of those guilds, but think about what you're doing because your screw ups just never end, for example :
1. EP + vader reworks are allowing teams with no mods to climb in arenas with no problem ( screw the rest of us that had p2p characters )
2. Most of the old players spent MONTHS farming mods, which now you're basically throwing to every newbie out there ( screw the old timers' work )
3. You are about to nerf the veterans? what was there to nerf about those 2? they were already useless to anything else but getting Jedi Training Rey.
The real question is, how long will the community still cope with this? It seems to me that at this very moment the only thing that really matters is the "cash grab"
@CG_TopHat@CG_RyDiggs
So while the StHan nerf is kind of expected and honestly appropriate, I hope that while you're in there fixing unintended interactions that helped players you will also fix some things that are broken in the players detriment. Such as Sion countering vs assists, and removing TM from people without Pain for example. The first one basically breaks the aa hoda teams and isnt intended from everything in the raid text. At least this would give us another viable team other than super geared troopers and RJT. If you guys are going to fix unintended interactions, please fix the ones that benefit us as well as the ones that hurt us. I think this kind of a balance approach would be much more appreciated by the community.
Nerfing Rey is a terrible idea. I agree with the ST Han nerf, but like McMole said in his newest video, it's not that she's too good, it's that no other team has a chance with the mechanics of the raid. I recently joined a 93mil GP guild, there's only like 6 people who have RJT, and it's taken 2 and a half days to get through p1 of tier 5. That's asinine. Especially when it "recommends" level 80, gear 10, and omega'd abilities..
oho!
there is a sithraid and you have missed something... oh... a update is immediately on the way!
you have a buggy territory war, bugs in fights, bugs in mismatching guilds up to 60million difference!!! and what are you doing? not nothing, no you changed the pointsystem so that the stronger guild has also an advantage (beside that the guild is 60million gp stronger than the other one)!!
come on @CG_Kozispoon@CG_RyDiggs please do something that is really important and do not hold up with a sith raid nerf!
Replies
Just keep damage below 10m and you ll be fine
You are disrespecting all users, from f2p to whales, make them think that they daily effort is worthless
You change all this for the players, but you give nothing to us, nor the possibility to change a Zeta from a caracter that you make useless with this changes to one that could be more effective to the player and the game.
We should accept any decision you take either like us or not, but you never take the responsibility for making mistakes in the development of the game.
It´is disappointing to see your lack of commitment to the player who make you what you are today
brown noser huh.... One doesn't get any rewards for kissing someone's behind or holding CG's back pocket. A little common sense goes a long way when brown nosing huh... Hahaha ah these suckers I tell ya. (Thinking out loud)
I have no delusions of it actually happening. I just wanted to show how better options were available without nerfing everything to the ground.
Yeah it would suck if my boss forced me to take a pay cut. But a 0.05% pay cut and a 50% pay cut aren't the same thing.
@swgohfan29 I stand by the statements I made regarding balance. And although I am shocked they actually did it, I offer kudos for their commitment to consistency.
Now, for the sake of consistancy regarding the dev's freshly stated intents.... the infinite TM reduction loop in the Pit needs to be closed just like the infinite TM gain loop needed to be closed in the Sith raid. Addressing one without addressing the other wouldn't be appropriate.
I'm not looking for rewards or brownnosing at all. I'm just appalled at how many fools thought this clear exploit would last long and decided to zeta a character for it. Sorry for not jumping on the hate train like yourself. Too bad you aren't one of the people who actually has a brain around here.
Agreed.
While I have not personally spent as much as that, I have spent around $500 in the last month. Usually in about $300. I now manage a guild that just cleared the HAAT thanks to my push to have them develop their Resistance Team. My leadership in my guild has encouraged recent spending from the FTP players, and increased spending from the Dolphins. Not anymore.
We just had a guild meeting. We are withholding any further funds as a guild until we determine that this change does not impact the HAAT. If it does the moratorium on spending will become a moratorium on the game and EA.
Good luck.
The main issue with the exposes on JTR teams is not the expose itself; it is the fact that the expose is non-resistible. As others have noted, the lack of diversity is not due to the fact that JTR has a non-resistible expose, it is because Nihilus counters almost every other type of build.
A simple change like "gains 25% tenacity every damage" instead of "gains 50%" might allow Zader and other debuff teams to work just better enough that one doesn't require the "un-resistible" tag. The other major issue with him is the basic-protection mechanic. While good in theory, it removes all "assists" based teams. Perhaps lowering his potency so that only 50% defense down lands on most toons would make this better.
I very much like the idea of the speed increase per damage and the no escape to remove the gimmicky teams from other raids, but Nihilus has too many counters to other mechanics in the game.
TLDR - Expose isn't stifling diversity/creativity , 50% tenacity up on Nihilus and Protection on basics is stifling them.
Edit: I also think the 50% tenacity is fine for Phase 2 or 3 would be okay. Different teams for different phases is both great marketing/business and fine by most of the player base, but Nihilus is the real problem.
I'm an officer in a 101M GP guild and we're on day 5 of T5, and have nearly finished phase three (we don't have many JTRs). Before that, we took 3 days just to get 50% of P1 finished before we decided to abandon it. We then did T3 which as a joke (with joke rewards as well). This reminds me of normal AAT before the health was radically adjusted.
My suggestions would be:
- Substantially reduce the health pool of T5 and T6, to about half of what it is currently. Nihilus in particular should be reduced more than the others due to his protection reducing the damage that can be done.
- Improve the rewards to be more in line with a multi-day effort.
- Increase the number of daily attacks that can be done from 5, to perhaps 7-8. Just to get things moving along.
If it didn't take so long to move through the raid I believe fewer people would be upset about changes to STHan and NS Acolyte/Zombie, as they wouldn't be as necessary. Lower health means lower expose damage, and no nerf on that would be required (the damage appears to be directly related to the full boss health - at least, that's what happened to therm det damage in Normal AAT when they nerfed it). Finally, even at half health, it looks like it'll still take our guild 3-5d to finish T5, so the rewards need to be more on par with Territory battles. I enjoy the mechanics of the raid, but they get pretty old after 10 attacks on the same boss. Doing 4M damage is great but if it doesn't progress the raid much, things get stale. And stale things aren't fun. Just my 2c, cheers!Wanna go under the radar?
Using a Zader or Azajj team can do TM removal, so stacking the turns for all of them, and continually removing TM can keep her from taking that turn and one shotting.
I just don't get the infinite loop thing.
EDIT: Oh wait it's irresistible.
People said worse things about AAT raid when it came out. Devs eventually did nerf the Normal difficulty level because it was ridiculous, taking weeks to complete. Some squads were even nerfed because they did not want them to be effective (Nute!). Eventually new characters were released that were able to apply serious damage to the raid.
I don't know what the St Han squad is/was, but it sounds similar to the Wedge lead rebels in HAAT P4 that could survive past Enrage. They changed the AAT raid mechanics to put an end to that as well.
They are clearly trying to follow the same business model here.
The difference is that decently effective squad comps already existed in the game for AAT, all we needed to do was find and gear them. For this raid, they are nerfing anything we find that is remotely effective, but they aren't modifying just the ST raid to counter the effectiveness, they appear to be modifying how these abilities work in all raids. And that's where the problem lies.
This is like buying a new car with a V8, and after driving it around for a year, the dealer shows up at your house and takes back 2 cylinders because they did not realize how fast you could drive with a V8, but don't worry you can still drive it, a V6 is almost as fast.
Man, I feel like we have been down this road before. Several times.
We all think so. But clearly the raid rewards are not meant to be anything more than sense of achievement for completing the raid.
You people panicked because a handful of top guilds managed to complete the heroic tier of the raid? OF COURSE THEY DID! they have tens of thousands of dollars in those accounts. Don't you think they should have some advantage for building your houses and buying you cars and expensive clothing?
And no, i'm not in one of those guilds, but think about what you're doing because your screw ups just never end, for example :
1. EP + vader reworks are allowing teams with no mods to climb in arenas with no problem ( screw the rest of us that had p2p characters )
2. Most of the old players spent MONTHS farming mods, which now you're basically throwing to every newbie out there ( screw the old timers' work )
3. You are about to nerf the veterans? what was there to nerf about those 2? they were already useless to anything else but getting Jedi Training Rey.
The real question is, how long will the community still cope with this? It seems to me that at this very moment the only thing that really matters is the "cash grab"
So while the StHan nerf is kind of expected and honestly appropriate, I hope that while you're in there fixing unintended interactions that helped players you will also fix some things that are broken in the players detriment. Such as Sion countering vs assists, and removing TM from people without Pain for example. The first one basically breaks the aa hoda teams and isnt intended from everything in the raid text. At least this would give us another viable team other than super geared troopers and RJT. If you guys are going to fix unintended interactions, please fix the ones that benefit us as well as the ones that hurt us. I think this kind of a balance approach would be much more appreciated by the community.
there is a sithraid and you have missed something... oh... a update is immediately on the way!
you have a buggy territory war, bugs in fights, bugs in mismatching guilds up to 60million difference!!! and what are you doing? not nothing, no you changed the pointsystem so that the stronger guild has also an advantage (beside that the guild is 60million gp stronger than the other one)!!
come on @CG_Kozispoon @CG_RyDiggs please do something that is really important and do not hold up with a sith raid nerf!