Sith raid - fatigue

Replies

  • Jedi I get you're trying to help but many people cant very bothered to do 5 squads per day as is.. giving the option for more squads isn't going to solve the problem either unfortunately
  • I understand. But at least it'll make the process go faster - if even people just auto the blessed thing.

    The raid is a boring experience on the whole and Heroic is a just an attempt and retreat process until you find an acceptable slice of RNG. I get no satisfaction from it other than shards and gear. Its a means to an end.

  • Jedi_of_Oz wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.

    Stop bragging.

    I'd hazard a guess that maybe only 1-2% of guilds are completing Heroic. For those that aren't, the experience is like pulling nails.

    While my guild can knock over Heroic in 12-18 hours, T6 was taking a solid 2-3 refreshes - mainly because of the ridiculous limit of only being limited to 5 squads per day. Before we started Heroics, there was increasing disengagment with each T6 attempted. It was such a slog that more and more CBF - and we're a 150m+ GP guild. It must be excruciating for lesser equiped guilds.

    At the very least, they should remove the limit of 5 squads per day for T6 and below. P1 and P3 have one specialist team that can make significant progress through the phase. Others squads are midling at best in those phases. P2 perhaps 4-5 squads, with P4 being situational depending on which boss is being targeted. A limit of 5 squads per day just prolongs the agony for most guilds.



    He s not bragging. He s pointing out that the rewards (Traya) for HSTR are worth the gameplay, and since Str will get you closer to HSTR, STR is worth playing.
  • not that it needs repeating but all the problems with the raid are with Nihilus. Having all the problem mechanics from phase 1 repeated in phase 4 just make the raid not worth doing. Personally I think removing the protection gain from basic attacks against him would do wonders. To the fellow who did the calculations on the health pool, I assume this calculation doesn't take into account this mechanic. While I understand the same mechanic exists in Heroic, it does make the health pool that much more a) p2&3 and b) potentially a bigger discrepancy than the other 2 raids. It's also in the first part of the raid. so the first thing you face up against is a brick wall that you don't really feel like pounding your fists on.
  • TVF
    19846 posts Member
    Jedi_of_Oz wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.

    Stop bragging.

    Hahaha, what are you even talking about? We do T4.

    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Just an idea, instead of only 5 attempts increase the limit. Possibly make un unlimited. But would be happy with 10. This would speed up the days it takes to finish the raid.
  • FitzChivalry
    56 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I remember when STR launched and players noticed you can only use 5 teams per day, devs said that is unintended and they were going to remove that limit soon. I guess that was, once again, "soon" not soon.

    Only the players doing heroic are happy with STR at this moment and they are like what - 1-2% of total player base?
    They are happy because they get good rewards (besides Traya shards) but most importantly they are happy because they play it for 2 days at most and then they have a 2 day break before starting another heroic raid.

    The other 98% of player base play it every day and that makes them (yes, all of them) NOT happy. Letting rewards aside, you can't be happy when you fight the raid 4-5-6 consecutive days just to be able to start another one 'cause you already have full tickets.

    Yeah-yeah I know "your guild should farm a lower tier". Well, we are a 115m guild and we are alternating T5 with T4, but even so we need to run them continously and that makes us not happy.

    In conclusion devs should take a closer look at all the players that are NOT doing heroic right now. You know, they are like 98-99% of total player base.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Doing Heroic atm. But we did 2 runs of T6 at the beginning.
    I completely understand frustration here, 5 tries a day, Bosses are huge "sponges" absorbing brutally inflated amounts of damage, not very intriguing gameplay.
    I wonder, why T1-T6 cannot have similar "time to completion" for lower GP/geared guilds than T7 for us has?
    If ppl are totally farming T4 under one day, they try move higher.
    When they get under 1 day with T6, they try to move to T7.
    So why so much HP?

    Example:
    My tuned T7 ready JTRey can do 10+% in HC.
    How much should it do in T6? 20+%? 50+%? Full solo?
    Guilds having more than 15 such teams do heroic. So to the audience of T6 it would be fair to have this team do some 20% AT LEAST IMO. Then T6 would be "stepping stone" rather than "huge wall"...
  • Immorta1lynx
    192 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I feel the same. My guild can clear haat in less than an hour and we haven't tried a t6 since the opening day of str. Nihilus is way to op, and the only way to beat him is with jtr... Who came back way to early for most people, myself included. I've made several comments to the devs about the raid not being any fun and two of my threads were removed. I asked during the live event how they felt about the raid not being fun and they side stepped my question.
  • Ebbda wrote: »
    I'm in a guild of 48 and we started tier 4 yesterday morning.

    32/48 have hit as the others either don't bother or await phase two which is far easier. All this raid has done for officers and leaders is highlight those who aren't putting in the effort but then again, with the woeful rewards and annoying mechanics, it's hard to get too frustrated.

    Look forward to the raid gear improvements but sadly the damage has been done. Motivating members daily has become a chore.

    Fingers crossed the rewards outweigh the dull nature and we can get back to working as a guild again.

    We have the same problem at nearly 90m. One of it top players of almost 3m gp just dropped off the face of the Earth a couple weeks after we started doing str. Said her was burnt out. Now this is a guy who can do a lot of damage in the raid but do to it's nature and how the devs have handled there public since then has completely destroyed his desire to compete anymore. And I find more and more people feeling this way. Our top player has begun to just auto it because it's so demoralizing.
  • I remember when STR launched and players noticed you can only use 5 teams per day, devs said that is unintended and they were going to remove that limit soon. I guess that was, once again, "soon" not soon.

    That was the heroic tier, which was unintended, because there is no roster refresh. And it wasn't an actual limit, it was a text error that was removed.

  • Kyno
    22253 posts Moderator
    I remember when STR launched and players noticed you can only use 5 teams per day, devs said that is unintended and they were going to remove that limit soon. I guess that was, once again, "soon" not soon.

    Only the players doing heroic are happy with STR at this moment and they are like what - 1-2% of total player base?
    They are happy because they get good rewards (besides Traya shards) but most importantly they are happy because they play it for 2 days at most and then they have a 2 day break before starting another heroic raid.

    The other 98% of player base play it every day and that makes them (yes, all of them) NOT happy. Letting rewards aside, you can't be happy when you fight the raid 4-5-6 consecutive days just to be able to start another one 'cause you already have full tickets.

    Yeah-yeah I know "your guild should farm a lower tier". Well, we are a 115m guild and we are alternating T5 with T4, but even so we need to run them continously and that makes us not happy.

    In conclusion devs should take a closer look at all the players that are NOT doing heroic right now. You know, they are like 98-99% of total player base.

    The limit they removed was on heroic. All other tiers have a 5 battle limit and it was never stated they would remove those, that is the same as all raids.

    Even people doing heroic are complaining about the rewards...

    The raid is new, lower tier guilds are going to have to build teams and get the mods to make the current strategy work for them. There would be no point in releasing a raid that could be "easy" or "quick" for guilds to beat is kinda pointless. The current toons and skills in the mix are just weaker towards this raid, which likely means something is coming. Yeah that's not a great reason to make guilds slug through a raid but if it wasn't for that when "the new thing" comes it will make a difference and if it was "easy/quick" before then it becomes a joke "over night"
  • FieldL
    95 posts Member
    Isn’t the reward system reworked and be releasing today or tomorrow?
  • FitzChivalry
    56 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    The limit they removed was on heroic. All other tiers have a 5 battle limit and it was never stated they would remove those, that is the same as all raids.

    Even people doing heroic are complaining about the rewards...

    I didn't know that, I thought the limit wasn't intended for lower tiers either - my bad.

    The rewards will be improved, hopefully and consistently for all tiers.

    But the fatigue for any other tier than heroic will be the same for a long period (until some power creep).

    I don't know if this was intended too, but I don't think that a guild able to beat heroic in less than 24 hours should "work" 2 or 3 days to beat Tier 6 - this is a real situation. That's the fatigue I'm talking about. From a point on it looks easier (or faster at least) to beat heroic than Tier 6 or even Tier 5.

  • Kyno
    22253 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    The limit they removed was on heroic. All other tiers have a 5 battle limit and it was never stated they would remove those, that is the same as all raids.

    Even people doing heroic are complaining about the rewards...

    I didn't know that, I thought the limit wasn't intended for lower tiers either - my bad.

    The rewards will be improved, hopefully and consistently for all tiers.

    But the fatigue for any other tier than heroic will be the same for a long period (until some power creep).

    I don't know if this was intended too, but I don't think that a guild able to beat heroic in less than 24 hours should "work" 2 or 3 days to beat Tier 6 - this is a real situation. That's the fatigue I'm talking about. From a point on it looks easier (or faster at least) to beat heroic than Tier 6 or even Tier 5.

    A guild beating heroic in less than 24 hours can beat T6 with 1 refresh, so while technically 2 days its probably less than 36 hours.
  • TVF
    19846 posts Member
    FieldL wrote: »
    Isn’t the reward system reworked and be releasing today or tomorrow?

    Reward system is being improved and it is supposed to be part of today's update.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The limit they removed was on heroic. All other tiers have a 5 battle limit and it was never stated they would remove those, that is the same as all raids.

    Even people doing heroic are complaining about the rewards...

    I didn't know that, I thought the limit wasn't intended for lower tiers either - my bad.

    The rewards will be improved, hopefully and consistently for all tiers.

    But the fatigue for any other tier than heroic will be the same for a long period (until some power creep).

    I don't know if this was intended too, but I don't think that a guild able to beat heroic in less than 24 hours should "work" 2 or 3 days to beat Tier 6 - this is a real situation. That's the fatigue I'm talking about. From a point on it looks easier (or faster at least) to beat heroic than Tier 6 or even Tier 5.

    A guild beating heroic in less than 24 hours can beat T6 with 1 refresh, so while technically 2 days its probably less than 36 hours.

    How did you get this figure?
  • Kyno
    22253 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The limit they removed was on heroic. All other tiers have a 5 battle limit and it was never stated they would remove those, that is the same as all raids.

    Even people doing heroic are complaining about the rewards...

    I didn't know that, I thought the limit wasn't intended for lower tiers either - my bad.

    The rewards will be improved, hopefully and consistently for all tiers.

    But the fatigue for any other tier than heroic will be the same for a long period (until some power creep).

    I don't know if this was intended too, but I don't think that a guild able to beat heroic in less than 24 hours should "work" 2 or 3 days to beat Tier 6 - this is a real situation. That's the fatigue I'm talking about. From a point on it looks easier (or faster at least) to beat heroic than Tier 6 or even Tier 5.

    A guild beating heroic in less than 24 hours can beat T6 with 1 refresh, so while technically 2 days its probably less than 36 hours.

    How did you get this figure?

    We tried it.
  • I understand it should be hard and challenging, but at tier 6 or heroic it eliminates a large amount of guilds and that is my biggest problem with it.
  • TVF
    19846 posts Member
    Well be glad there's more than two tiers then.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Hosh
    4 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Logging in and posting here just because I agree with the majority in that the Sith raid is no fun in its current state. No game should make you attempt the same battle(s) 50+ times to hope for good RNG. Mechanics are just too much for what this game is.

    What ever their data shows is fine but it can't measure happiness and enjoyment which is what a game is supposed to be about.
  • Hosh, your last statement sums it up perfectly.
  • I bet the fatigue is starting to set in for people doing heroic just about now .
  • Hosh wrote: »
    Logging in and posting here just because I agree with the majority in that the Sith raid is no fun in its current state. No game should make you attempt the same battle(s) 50+ times to hope for good RNG. Mechanics are just too much for what this game is.

    What ever their data shows is fine but it can't measure happiness and enjoyment which is what a game is supposed to be about.

    Then stop running a team that requires so many tries? If you're not on heroic you don't need to be perfect with jtr. Drop r2 from that jtr team, put a healer in and roll with it. Adjust your teams so they aren't so rng dependent...i retreat maybe once a day if even with my jtr, bb8, rey, rt, zarriss team. Sure it's not the most damage possible, but it's a heck of alot less frustrating.
  • DuneFlint wrote: »
    Hosh wrote: »
    Logging in and posting here just because I agree with the majority in that the Sith raid is no fun in its current state. No game should make you attempt the same battle(s) 50+ times to hope for good RNG. Mechanics are just too much for what this game is.

    What ever their data shows is fine but it can't measure happiness and enjoyment which is what a game is supposed to be about.

    Then stop running a team that requires so many tries? If you're not on heroic you don't need to be perfect with jtr. Drop r2 from that jtr team, put a healer in and roll with it. Adjust your teams so they aren't so rng dependent...i retreat maybe once a day if even with my jtr, bb8, rey, rt, zarriss team. Sure it's not the most damage possible, but it's a heck of alot less frustrating.

    Doing 200-300k damage with an all g12 team on t5 is what is fatiguing. I didn't spend almost $1000 in the last year of playing this game to do 200k-300k on a stupid raid.

    I could have bought a fully formed game with more content including physical materials to go with it 10 times with the same amount of money spent.

    That being said, I think it's completely reasonable to be frustrated that my end game characters have to be so specific to be a contender. Real balance would say I should be able to have 3 or four good teams per phase. Not one or maybe two if you're lucky.
  • kalidor
    1859 posts Member
    DuneFlint wrote: »
    Hosh wrote: »
    Logging in and posting here just because I agree with the majority in that the Sith raid is no fun in its current state. No game should make you attempt the same battle(s) 50+ times to hope for good RNG. Mechanics are just too much for what this game is.

    What ever their data shows is fine but it can't measure happiness and enjoyment which is what a game is supposed to be about.

    Then stop running a team that requires so many tries? If you're not on heroic you don't need to be perfect with jtr. Drop r2 from that jtr team, put a healer in and roll with it. Adjust your teams so they aren't so rng dependent...i retreat maybe once a day if even with my jtr, bb8, rey, rt, zarriss team. Sure it's not the most damage possible, but it's a heck of alot less frustrating.

    Doing 200-300k damage with an all g12 team on t5 is what is fatiguing. I didn't spend almost $1000 in the last year of playing this game to do 200k-300k on a **** raid.

    I could have bought a fully formed game with more content including physical materials to go with it 10 times with the same amount of money spent.

    That being said, I think it's completely reasonable to be frustrated that my end game characters have to be so specific to be a contender. Real balance would say I should be able to have 3 or four good teams per phase. Not one or maybe two if you're lucky.

    What team are you running that you're getting such a terrible score? Or are you referring to the last bit of Phase 4 where it's solo Traya? Wiggs Rebels with Han + CLS should be able to pull a lot better than that on any phase, and they're pretty common.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • My guild does tier 4 or 5 and takes about 5 days to so it. After five days of grinding it out I got 19 pieces I could have easily farmed in a day or two for finishing in the top 10. I'll just be posting 0s or auto-ing now and have lost any interest in developing teams for the higher tiers of this raid.
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    I think you are completely missing the point...

    1. This raid is an incredible TIME SINK.
    2. QoL updates have always been about reducing the amount of time we have to dedicate to a MOBILE GAME.
    3. They follow up all the QoL updates with a new raid that requires 4x the amount of time I've EVER had to spend on this game.

    So, the net result is, im spending more time than ever & its starting to make me consider leaving the game. Others already have. Guilds are disbanding. And people are moving on.

    So, either CG tries to do some damage control, or they end up w/ a small player base who don't have a life. Which basically means buh bye game.

    No 1 gives a crap about the difficulty. They care about how much time is required... even at looooow tiers. The other complaints all still boil down to this raid being an insane time sink & not worth the effort. But guilds require participation... so, once again, people are gonna walk away because life > game.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    I think you are completely missing the point...

    1. This raid is an incredible TIME SINK.
    2. QoL updates have always been about reducing the amount of time we have to dedicate to a MOBILE GAME.
    3. They follow up all the QoL updates with a new raid that requires 4x the amount of time I've EVER had to spend on this game.

    So, the net result is, im spending more time than ever & its starting to make me consider leaving the game. Others already have. Guilds are disbanding. And people are moving on.

    So, either CG tries to do some damage control, or they end up w/ a small player base who don't have a life. Which basically means buh bye game.

    No 1 gives a **** about the difficulty. They care about how much time is required... even at looooow tiers. The other complaints all still boil down to this raid being an insane time sink & not worth the effort. But guilds require participation... so, once again, people are gonna walk away because life > game.

    Drop a tier if your so over worked then, you kinda missed the train by the way. But thanks for trying
  • Nikoms565
    12206 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I'm sure these "improved" rewards will help with SRT fatigue. Fixed that right up....or some other word that starts with the first letter of Boba's last name.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
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