Sith Raid Reward Rollback - 4/17/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Thanks! Does this mean T4-5 will get better rewards now?


    "sub 85 completing Heroic Sith"

    must be nice being carried like that ;)
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Who does and does not contribute is completely irrelevant. If thing A takes more effort than thing B but has a payout that is significantly lower, people won't want to do it. That is not communism, that's pure capitalism.

    The real issue is: the discrepancy between heroic rewards and T1-6 rewards is so devastatingly huge (A heroic sith raid can give rewards in the 7k crystal range + traya shards, a T5 sith raid gives rewards in the 700 crystal range), that it is terrible for anyone not doing heroic, on top of those T5's taking significantly more effort.
  • Vohbo wrote: »
    Who does and does not contribute is completely irrelevant. If thing A takes more effort than thing B but has a payout that is significantly lower, people won't want to do it. That is not communism, that's pure capitalism.

    The real issue is: the discrepancy between heroic rewards and T1-6 rewards is so devastatingly huge (A heroic sith raid can give rewards in the 7k crystal range + traya shards, a T5 sith raid gives rewards in the 700 crystal range), that it is terrible for anyone not doing heroic, on top of those T5's taking significantly more effort.

    really? our scrap rewards for T5 before and now are 700 crystals worth? i can´t belive it.. oh, my mistake that must be the ge-token :neutral:
  • it's a bit like: let's make the divide wider, isn't it, @CG_Carrie?
  • jedilord
    285 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    it's a bit like: let's make the divide wider, isn't it, @CG_Carrie?

    havn´t you seen the newest 5* traya video? it seems like even if T1-T6 gets the heroic box and heroic would get the T1 box, the divide would be even wider^^
    it seems like even RNGesus can´t help the nonheroic player from falling in arena to place200 or so... maybe some player can buy them in a heroic guild... i think a few hundred bucks payed to a guild to get inside it is better invested than anything else EA/CG is offering at the moment^^

  • Much appreciated for changes.
    But what about challenge gear as a reward in the first place? That was the only thing (well sorta) all players wanted. None of the player who can do STR does not need challenge gear (except for carbanti Mk 3). NONE. It absolute nonsense this gear is among the reward. I personally have over 5k of this. It is not reward...
  • Who is willing to bet the gear 12 pieces won’t include the multi tool. You know the most useful one..............
  • First_but_66_Order
    1014 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Ok I guess.
    I do not hope anything, we ll see what we get in may.

    *Flashing Blue light*
    -There was no change in the rewards.
    -There was no change in the rewards.

  • Nauros
    2731 posts Member
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Good and understandable decision. I still hope we get rid of the unusable gear in rewards as fast as possible.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!

    Just an example
    Old payout, T4 top spot: 1375 guild currency, 0 event currency, some Rancor level gear, 475K credits
    New payout, T4 top spot: 2500 guild currency, 420 event currency, AAT level gear, 475K credits.

    Tell me again how the difference is not absolutely MASSIVE ? And the new payout is still far too low for the effort put into it. The old payout is just silly.
  • Kyno
    21301 posts Moderator
    Acrofales wrote: »
    Why would anybody complain about this? Suddenly I have compassion for the devs. Extend this olive branch and people still aren't happy. The rewards were nerfed accross all tiers. This restores the drops back to what they were like we asked. Who cares about challenge gear, let it stack up. Give a little positive feedback. Lack of recognition is why people disengage from thier jobs. Good job Carrie, takes a big person to admit when they were wrong.



    And now you are surprised people are complaining about the rewards from T1-T6 raid? The entire problem that created this saga was NOT SOLVED. Rewards for T1-T6 are still completely pathetic. It's not about the challenge gear (well, only partially). It's about getting better rewards from a hRancor kill for T6 Traya (at the same rank). hRancor takes 15 minutes on auto. T6 Traya takes 3+ days of 5 attacks a day on manual.

    The roll back wasn't meant to solve anything, just stem the tide. It is meant to take a step back and reexamine the situation.
    CG_Carrie wrote:
    Hello Holotable Heroes!
    I have one last update on the Sith Raid Rewards (for the next month or so, at least, I hope).
    We have done some serious thinking about our intention with the original reward change and its rollout, and we've realized the net effect has gone too far to diminish the value of the Sith Raid to players while it is still relatively new, especially to the very top end of the rankings in higher Tiers. We will be revisiting reward changes in May along with Gear XII 5/6 so that we can more effectively balance rewards and progression for the entire player base, but in the meanwhile, we have decided to completely roll back all the changes to the way they were prior to the update on 4/11/18....

  • YanM123
    39 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.

    You'd be surprised by the answer to that. Of course larger whale guilds have been doing it from the start, but a lot of smaller guilds have since defeated heroic. Late end-game difference between a FTP and PTP player is not that big.. a FTP will just be missing the less useful characters. My guild has been completing it for a few weeks now and we're composed of at least half free to play players.

    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.
  • Ljaat
    84 posts Member
    Thank you!
  • Dont screw this up. Like seriously. Dont. Most people are at their breaking point. This doesnt have to be a battlefront 2. If you want to take another week to confirm a good improvement, i ll take it over another messup.
  • YanM123 wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.

    You'd be surprised by the answer to that. Of course larger whale guilds have been doing it from the start, but a lot of smaller guilds have since defeated heroic. Late end-game difference between a FTP and PTP player is not that big.. a FTP will just be missing the less useful characters. My guild has been completing it for a few weeks now and we're composed of at least half free to play players.

    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.

    I wager 80% - 20% ratio of Large Sea Creature vs FTP. Just remember the amount of guilds and players completing heroic is not very great, and it's probably the Large Sea Mammals carrying most of the weight.

    I do agree given enough time the difference between whales and ftp is minimal, but with the amount of new contents and the specific characters required to successfully do heroic sith that gap still largely exists. In 6-12 months this would be a non issue but as of right now it is. Just look at the amount of G12 death sions in the arena and that will give you an idea what we are dealing with here.
  • YanM123 wrote: »
    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.

    cool, may we have your advice please? our guild would love to run heroic... we are a mix of f2p and p2p, but the p2p are playing not as long as the f2p...
    we only have heard that in heroic you have to have x jtr, x chex-mix and x nightsister to win it... if we don´t need them it would be great!
  • @CG, I appreciate that you're taking ownership for this and reevaluating the raid rewards for sith. A few comments:

    1.) You can't please everyone but this would be a good opportunity to straight up ask the community what they think reasonable rewards would be at each stage.
    2.) Keep in mind that the reward curve doesn't need to be the same for each tier and arguably shouldn't be the same.
    3.) It sounds like you want to balance the long term health of the game. If so, don't just cater to those currently doing HSTR. Give the lower level guilds a path of progression. I would argue that if anyone is in a guild currently doing T4 or lower then the path to heroic is so far off that it's unrealistic. I'm not saying that they should be HSTR ready within a few months but the rewards should allow for a steady progression up through the tiers which is not the case in either rewards systems we've seen thus far.
    4.) If you feel like you need to touch the rewards in the other raids, please keep it simple and just remove challenge gear. No need to get fancy.
  • kalidor
    1673 posts Member
    Bartek wrote: »
    Take a look how rewards are being distributed now. Today's farm. This is a joke and a final nail to the coffin of this raid for tiers below Heroic. My guild is 110 mln and we are doing T4 (yes, **** T4) just because T5 takes twice more time and doesn't provide twice better rewards. Raid is WAY to long therefore boring. The rewards are far from being adequate to the effort people have to provide. The more boring it is (and you just made it superboring) the worse participation. And now with rewards almost equalized what do you think it is that will motivate people to get better at this? What have you done??

    Yep, we're in the same boat.107M doing mostly T4s with the occasional T5 to measure our overall STR progress. I'm still hoping that non-herioc STR will see a major health nerf to Nihilus in p1 so we can get into the meat of the raid faster. The difference in time between T4 and T5 is crazy, and T6 (which we attempted once) is even worse.
    Hopefully they can remove the problematic challenge gear (anything but carbs and syringes), increase the guild event coin a lot more (2x at least), reduce the prize box falloff and call it a day without introducing some other unintended issue. This constant controversy needs to stop.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • Nauros
    2731 posts Member
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!

    Just an example
    Old payout, T4 top spot: 1375 guild currency, 0 event currency, some Rancor level gear, 475K credits
    New payout, T4 top spot: 2500 guild currency, 420 event currency, AAT level gear, 475K credits.

    Tell me again how the difference is not absolutely MASSIVE ? And the new payout is still far too low for the effort put into it. The old payout is just silly.

    With the new payout, we got less gear slots for more currency, but I believe the pool was mostly the same, except for challenge gear. Saying it is rancor vs aat gear is overblown. Of course there was an improvement, but it was from miserable to slightly less miserable
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!

    Just an example
    Old payout, T4 top spot: 1375 guild currency, 0 event currency, some Rancor level gear, 475K credits
    New payout, T4 top spot: 2500 guild currency, 420 event currency, AAT level gear, 475K credits.

    Tell me again how the difference is not absolutely MASSIVE ? And the new payout is still far too low for the effort put into it. The old payout is just silly.

    With the new payout, we got less gear slots for more currency, but I believe the pool was mostly the same, except for challenge gear. Saying it is rancor vs aat gear is overblown. Of course there was an improvement, but it was from miserable to slightly less miserable

    I'm not implying the gear previously was any good, and while T4 should give AAT type gear, it's a lot less. I'm in no way saying that what the "new" rewards were good enough, or useful in any way. I'm just saying that we are going back to situation where doing T4 and lower is useless, and T5-6 are a horrible experience for little more than crumbs, instead of actually getting at least a little bit of currency.
  • I like the rollback but ...um may is in 12 days .... I think we all can agree that the rewards were bad from all points, we really need a in the middle. 1 full g12 piece is insane but 36 random salvage is nothing. What I would like to see is a balance between the 2 maybe a guaranteed piece of g12 in 1/3 so 1 out of 3 raids, g11 stun+cuffs + others at 50 pieces combined + a guaranteed 6 carbanti 6 cuff 6 stungun salvage + 5-6 G12 pieces of salvage. Maybe remove the currency increase and add more gear or find a balance. Honestly I like the raid and the mechanics, but I play for the loot if I need to snipe all 4 phases and be a day online for it only to get the same reward as a JTR tag team 1 min auto only I don't see why I should play. I won't be able to take top 3 but can score top 10, my challange is to score 4 or 5 rather then 9 or bellow 10.... there is however no reason to do this since top 10 will not reward extra unless top 3. Since the raid is so dificult and you need a full collection maybe consider adding some blue shards for top spots. I get that the traya shards are gold but maybe 5-10 chewie shards just for gear pieces in the blue shard store could provide some value and not hurt economy, or consular or any combination
  • Nikoms565
    11055 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    YanM123 wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.

    You'd be surprised by the answer to that. Of course larger whale guilds have been doing it from the start, but a lot of smaller guilds have since defeated heroic. Late end-game difference between a FTP and PTP player is not that big.. a FTP will just be missing the less useful characters. My guild has been completing it for a few weeks now and we're composed of at least half free to play players.

    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.

    This is precisely my point. While I know I occasionally fall into the same trap, I always find it fascinating when people think there own experience of the game mirrors everyone's.

    That is exactly part of the challenge CG has in creating raids and other content for players of differing start dates (which now has a 2 and 1/2 year range), differing spending habits, etc. Content that would be almost impossible for some players would be boring an easily "auto" by players who have been playing for longer or who spent.

    By way of example, f2p players (or minnows/guppies) who have just started might not be able to participate in/do damage in heroic Sith raids for 2 years. As a guppy myself, who has been playing for 2 and 1/2 years, I can honestly say, I would not have ready to contribute significantly to Heroic Sith 6 months ago either. I didn't have JTRey (yep, missed her the first time), let alone have her at g12 and my BB8 wasn't anywhere near g12 - nor were my Imp Troopers. Heck, I didn't even have Vader or Palp at g12 then. My point is simply that if you've only been playing a year or less, you can't expect to compete at the highest level of every piece of content released. Yes, the game is very "grindy" at times - but that's part of the game and part of the point. P2P players pay to skip some of the grind and speed up some of the process.

    Aside from all of that, I also should mention that, in general, there really is no need to "catch up" to those who have been playing since launch or the whales. You aren't competing against them in any way. The people in your arena shard all started about the same time you did. If they are ahead of you, the either paid money (so they paid for their advantage) or they are simply more active than you. So most of you doing t4 or t5 won't be facing Traya anytime soon in a your arena shards. The people that will be unlocking Traya in the next few months are either people on much older arena shards or whales who have paid for that advantage.

    In TW you are competing with guilds that are about the same strength as you (with some possible exceptions - but that's for another thread). In raids, you should be competing at a level that your guild can accomplish in a reasonable time based on the rate you collect raid tickets (now, whether or not STR falls into that category is a different discussion - this thread is about the rewards).

    CG/EA would like people to feel that they NEED to catch up - but you don't. You simply progress, compete at the level that is fun and challenging for you and your guild, and continue to strengthen your roster over time to tackle the ever-growing amount of challenging content in the game. Heroic level raids (all of them) are goals to be achieved over time. There are two ways to reach those higher levels - more money or more time.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565
    11055 posts Member
    it's a bit like: let's make the divide wider, isn't it,

    As per my post above, since you presumably started the game in the last year, I can almost guarantee you that you will not be facing Traya in your arena battles anytime soon. And by soon, I mean within in the next year.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • I'm so so so glad that we went around this merri-go-round just to arrive exactly where we began.

    Here, for your technical guys, I drew up this schema to help you plot out the next exciting changes to the Sith raid, it's a lot, but please bare with me....
    1) DO take out all challenge gear from raids.
    2) DO NOT do any thing else to the [redacted] raid.
    3) DO change the Carbanti challenge so it provides 5-7 Carbanti's instead of the current 3-5.
    4) DO NOT do any thing else to the [redacted] challenges.

    TL:DR; stop over doing it, already... how many times are we all going to waste a lot of time and pixels over this stuff?

    Change carbanti challenge to drop 7. Cmon. The variation in here is ridiculous when so many full carbantis are needed
  • C3hyp77
    162 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    it's a bit like: let's make the divide wider, isn't it,

    As per my post above, since you presumably started the game in the last year, I can almost guarantee you that you will not be facing Traya in your arena battles anytime soon. And by soon, I mean within in the next year.

    I started the game one year ago , and i will be facing traya in my shard in a couple of months .
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. There was an incentive to do this raid. This rollback is great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning. Disappointing for those guilds not able to do the heroic tier.

    This is a temporary move so they can roll this out in a better fashion in the future. raid reward changes are going to happen. as it says.

    The same could be said about the Heroic reward changes. It didn't stop complaints then and shouldn't be used to dismiss them now.

    Difference is many players who cleared heroic moved guilds and made investments into specific teams (that we'd otherwise wouldn't have so soon) to clear heroic before being hit in the face by the poor changes. Meanwhile, those who either didn't bother or aren't able to do it at all benefited from the change. There was obviously a mismatch right from the start.

    In the meantime, really just savour your free 2 full g12 gears that you got from the complaints of those who are doing heroic. In the end, there's still a net gain for you guys and a net loss for the heroic guilds.
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