Nightsister Zombie Rework: Begone Paper, Hello Fat [MEGA]

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    Thank you for validating my decision to not work on NS at all out side of easy character farms. I am extremely glad I have invested zero gear into any of these characters. I can't imagine how **** people are who got them not just geared up but zetad. You should refund all NS zetas so people at least get that investment back now that you gutted their ability in both p3 and p4.
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    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    But she isn't being defeated by the effect, she is being revived by it.
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    Also I just realized that you just created the same scenario as paper zombie for the P3 team. Leaving Zombie at G9 (and modded with speed so she can take a few turns before dying) so you don't have the new Unique reviving the first 2 other Nightsisters the first time they die seems more beneficial at the moment. Thoughts?
    @CG_TopHat
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    Burritto wrote: »
    I don't think it's intricate enough.

    Lol
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    Let's all just see it unfold first
  • CG_TopHat
    78 posts SWGOH Dev Team
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    Therion wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    But she isn't being defeated by the effect, she is being revived by it.

    Underneath the hood, she's being defeated by Undying Sacrifice and being revived by Endless Horde. Then Undying Sacrifice feeds turn meter to the Endless Horde revive.
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    undefined

    Not saying anyone is wrong, I just am going to wait to pass judgement until I have had a couple of opportunities to try it out.

    I will however say that I took Zombie to gear 8 and stopped. I am definitely bummed because I have very little intention of taking her to a higher level gear atm. Too many other projects, but that is my choice. My HSR score will take a hit as zombie is probably out of my top 10 gear projects right now.
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    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Nah it says when Zombie has undying sacrifice and is revived, the speed penalties are removed
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    Kreontas wrote: »
    Also I just realized that you just created the same scenario as paper zombie for the P3 team. Leaving Zombie at G9 (and modded with speed so she can take a few turns before dying) so you don't have the new Unique reviving the first 2 other Nightsisters the first time they die seems more beneficial at the moment. Thoughts?
    @CG_TopHat

    If she's not g10 she can permanently die. That basically ruins her.
  • CG_TopHat
    78 posts SWGOH Dev Team
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    Burritto wrote: »
    I don't think it's intricate enough.

    dqdlecwvzhny.jpg
  • Ruark_Icefire
    856 posts Member
    edited September 2018
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    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    Isn't that only when another NS dies? If Undying Sacrifice is out of charges and Zombie gets -100% speed is there any way for her to ever take a turn again?
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    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    But she isn't being defeated by the effect, she is being revived by it.

    Underneath the hood, she's being defeated by Undying Sacrifice and being revived by Endless Horde. Then Undying Sacrifice feeds turn meter to the Endless Horde revive.

    To be clear, I am not talking about her dying instead of another NS. I am just talking about an enemy defeating her while she is at -100% speed. In that case, it counts as a defeat by Undying Sacrifice?
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    Complicated mechanics is how the game got here. The newest released characters will eventually be the target of this same style of rework, due to very closely related interactions that are just now being theory crafted. I'm neither happy, or upset, but it reaffirms that the designs are complicated, even to the game developers.
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    Monel wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    I'm a fan. And thank you the Old Daka refund along with this rework. I'm excited to continue using Zombie at a higher gear level with my Nightsisters and appreciate that you kept the theme of the faction intact with this change.

    For those that are complaining, time for you to hit the drawing board and create new strategies for conquering the STR/HSTR. Changes happen, and you're allowed to not like them. But this just forces you to shoot for higher levels of play than you currently had. Which is sort of the point of a game like this.
    So it doesn’t affect you so screw everyone else? That’s selfish as hell. Nerfs are not good for the community.

    You haven't even tried it yet, stop calling it a nerf before you try. Also, I know several people that geared her up a lot so they are in better shape now. Anything CG was going to do was going to upset someone. Sorry you are the one upset, but it's time we figure something else out. A better geared character should perform better than an under geared character plain and simple.

    I geared my zombie already - I am not in better shape after this rework than before it. It’s a net loss. This is a nerf to that zombie and every other zombie.

    CG is being disingenuous here. They hate the succes folks are having with NS in the trash can fire that is HSTR. Refund all NS gear, mats, and credits.
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited September 2018
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    I've had a gear 9 zombie (doesn't die in 1 hit) for entirety of the Sith Raid. With just 1 run (cause we run a zerg) I get a min on a bad run of 4.5 million or so with conservative play (meaning liberal use of UW and not letting cycles stack high). 6+ million is not uncommon, and early on, when we had more time to reset a time or to, getting 8-10 million+ in P4 was achievable more than not. So, if you thought you needed full paper zombie in P4 to get a good score, that's not the case. G9 to G10 adds very little additional health to her ( I already had the STR gear pieces on her anyway) so once protection is gone early on, she's going to be very much the same tankiness level at G10.

    Now, adding a heal and 2 early guaranteed revives to what she does currently, will in this case, increase the damage I feel in P4 of Sith Raid (in my case from her being at G9). I don't see much impact to her amount of deaths, the 2 instant revives will help early RNG as Daka ramps up, and the heal will be a big big boost to the Vent lead and getting the 50% turn meter as you have another NS with a heal...you should be able to sustain the TM gains even more consistently now.

    For pvp...this unquestionably makes them a more stable team due to the 2 early instant revives. If something targets Daka early, they will have to kill her three times to eliminate her. Tremendous protection here. Also, the massive heal on another NS, even more security for the team.

    I can't comment on P3, I don't run that team, but for PVP this is a big bump and for P4 of the Sith Raid NS can still put up 8-10+ million with solid play no problem. I really like this rework overall, very well done.
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    Chewy88 wrote: »
    You totally destroyed her kit and I want a refund for asaj lead because now you destroyed that too and while you’re at it I think talzin lead as well since she can’t revive even with the basics

    I feel your pain, I feel a complete faction refund is in order and then if we want to put them back on our Nightsisters we have that choice.
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    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    But she isn't being defeated by the effect, she is being revived by it.

    Underneath the hood, she's being defeated by Undying Sacrifice and being revived by Endless Horde. Then Undying Sacrifice feeds turn meter to the Endless Horde revive.

    @CG_TopHat
    Just one more thing. Does this only happen for the 2 instances where she takes the place of allies? After the 2 instances if she dies with -100 speed does the speed rest again?
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    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    I was kinda it sounded like that too, but under an Asajj lead, you can get her TM up to 100%, so you might be able to drag her back out of it again.
  • MCGrex
    21 posts Member
    edited September 2018
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    @CG_TopHat Any reason that new passive is on zombie? a lifeless corpse that is being reanimated by Old Daka herself, it might make sense for a similar effect to belong to Daka herself since the zombie isn't actually individually powerful but rather an extension of Daka's rather impressive NS Magics.
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    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    I was kinda it sounded like that too, but under an Asajj lead, you can get her TM up to 100%, so you might be able to drag her back out of it again.

    We've already been told here that she won't take a turn at 100% TM if she has no speed.
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    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    I was kinda it sounded like that too, but under an Asajj lead, you can get her TM up to 100%, so you might be able to drag her back out of it again.

    A character with 0 speed can't take a turn even with 100% TM.
  • Jenari_DwInZz_
    29 posts Member
    edited September 2018
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    You know if you want to use the protect my investment excuse when are you going to protect my investment in arena with all those 3* to 6* Bastila and 5 to 6* Traya's?

    I invested heavily in my 7* g12 arena teams too, so if you want to use this excuse you should draw one line and dont allow lower level stars/gear in Arena also...
    Post edited by Jenari_DwInZz_ on
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    Does the speed stack between rounds?
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    Monel wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    I'm a fan. And thank you the Old Daka refund along with this rework. I'm excited to continue using Zombie at a higher gear level with my Nightsisters and appreciate that you kept the theme of the faction intact with this change.

    For those that are complaining, time for you to hit the drawing board and create new strategies for conquering the STR/HSTR. Changes happen, and you're allowed to not like them. But this just forces you to shoot for higher levels of play than you currently had. Which is sort of the point of a game like this.
    So it doesn’t affect you so screw everyone else? That’s selfish as hell. Nerfs are not good for the community.

    You haven't even tried it yet, stop calling it a nerf before you try. Also, I know several people that geared her up a lot so they are in better shape now. Anything CG was going to do was going to upset someone. Sorry you are the one upset, but it's time we figure something else out. A better geared character should perform better than an under geared character plain and simple.

    If it’s soft and squishy it’s a nerf it’s that simple think about all the mechanics that they’ve nullified with this faction because of this. It is nothing but a nerf and anyone who thinks differently doesn’t know what they’re reading.
  • CG_TopHat
    78 posts SWGOH Dev Team
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    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Therion wrote: »
    So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.

    Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?

    Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."

    Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.

    Isn't that only when another NS dies? If Undying Sacrifice is out of charges and Zombie gets -100% speed is there any way for her to ever take a turn again?

    No there is not.
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    Monel wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    I'm a fan. And thank you the Old Daka refund along with this rework. I'm excited to continue using Zombie at a higher gear level with my Nightsisters and appreciate that you kept the theme of the faction intact with this change.

    For those that are complaining, time for you to hit the drawing board and create new strategies for conquering the STR/HSTR. Changes happen, and you're allowed to not like them. But this just forces you to shoot for higher levels of play than you currently had. Which is sort of the point of a game like this.
    So it doesn’t affect you so screw everyone else? That’s selfish as hell. Nerfs are not good for the community.

    You haven't even tried it yet, stop calling it a nerf before you try. Also, I know several people that geared her up a lot so they are in better shape now. Anything CG was going to do was going to upset someone. Sorry you are the one upset, but it's time we figure something else out. A better geared character should perform better than an under geared character plain and simple.
    Also actually understand that this hurts not only g1 zombie but g12 this makes the toon worse all the way around and seriously messes up asaj and talzin leads.
    So NERF!!!!
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    Kreontas wrote: »
    Also I just realized that you just created the same scenario as paper zombie for the P3 team. Leaving Zombie at G9 (and modded with speed so she can take a few turns before dying) so you don't have the new Unique reviving the first 2 other Nightsisters the first time they die seems more beneficial at the moment. Thoughts?
    @CG_TopHat

    If she's not g10 she can permanently die. That basically ruins her.

    At G8 and modded she can take a few hits before dying so it shouldn't be an issue.
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    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    Let's all just see it unfold first

    Given their track record, I have no reason to trust that this won’t be a colossal disaster
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    Well zombie might not be as good but Daka and asajj will work great with Talzin lead and use initiate. Now HAAT solo capable with that set up
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