If were generalising, then you could argue that most business rinse and repeat this process its largely how 99.9% of company who offer a product operate. If people don't bring new product, then we have nothing to buy. Imagine if Apple designed a phone which would remain the best for all eternity. You would never need another phone again. That would almost spell certain doom. Microsoft, are always designing and bringing out new OS etc. Its the way of the world.
With CG their is definitely balance issues and tweaks to be carefully considered. You do have to cater for the fast moving players the whales, who buy up everything and are always waiting and eager for more! If people want to spend their hard earned cash then their will never be a shortage of gaming developers happy to take that cash from them. Players who speed at a more leisurely rate again you need to cater for these also, or from time to time at least try to help them catch up, and obviously those who do not spend a single dime, well the fact that play / promote and enjoy your games means their always considered to be warm leads or potential customers so you need to think of new and exciting ways to bait and temp them as they are the players that will become spenders and replace anyone falling back on spend for what ever reason. Its like plate spinning you have to keep moving around from each one to ensure none fall off and smash.
I don't want to defend CG too much on this point but its a tremendous balancing act, and undoubtedly they will get things right and horribly wrong. I think the best way to ensure things move forward on sure footing is always to provide as much information, rhyme or reason for doing things and keep players informed. if your going to do something that could be unpopular then explain your reasoning first. Communication is the key in my humble opinion and consideration when weighing things up. If you offer reasoning and rationalise motivations behind your moves and objectives then it helps players to accept, embrace and where ever possible plan!
What CG need to understand is investing CASH is very important in terms of rewarding that investment but TIME is a very precious commodity also for players and that needs a tremendous amount of respect because this game is a massively time consuming game investment wise.
It is a balance and providing CG respect these things then we cant ask much more of them. At the end of the day their are no perfect people in the game only perfect intensions.
The alternative is a healthy game that every faction has a place. I mean hey, if you enjoy seeing and fighting the same teams day in and day out then good for you. But for a game that has this many characters in it, it's a sad shame that 80% are never even used (IN ARENA). I've said it before and I'll say it one last time. You want to end metas? End the **** AI to allow more team comps to be viable in arena.
FTFY.
Every time I see one of these threads decrying how useless a toon is, I want to go in and add (IN ARENA) to the end of every sentence. It's like people forget that this game isn't just a PVP arena grudge match.
Guys, loving the banter! - Great to see such a bustling thread! - I love all your points I think everyone has made reasonably constructive argument back and forth. Clearly their is plenty of support for and against Revan being OP.
My original message, and remember I am a little BIAS here because I don't have REVAN, I have just obtained Traya after a long hard 8 month guild effort slog, it was evident that My Treya lead Sith squad was getting pulverised by Revan, who virtually wiped out Traya in about 20 seconds. My initial thoughts after an 8 month grind was ****, why have I spent all this F in time getting this char! - Revans release was a slap in the face for the thousands of players and guilds still working to get her.
Since this post, I have played around with my team and I now run a EMP P lead, with treya DN, Sion and Thrawn. The AI, still hunts and slaughters treya which is annoying, but I am finding a small ray of light. Its R N G based a lot of the time, and a bit of luck.
I still drop 20 slots over night and the team gets battered on defence by CLS / CHEWI and Revan teams. So to sum up, I have accepted Revan, the game must evolve and new content must play its course.
However my original message was that I thought it bad of CG to offer little consideration to players like me who were finishing or still on their traya journey to just render her worthless VS revan.
Furthermore, to an injury to already mortal wound. CG's ability to turn arena around on its head just when you have spent months farming s somewhat a speciality of theirs!!!! having just got my Geo's to g12, the new Anakin ship with Windu lead obliterates them.
So its the Revan situation all over again!
The Rule I have discovered with this game is if you don't pay, then as far as PVP is concerned gentle farm everything and stock pile everything because you can not anticipate their next move.
It amazes me that people still spend money on this game to be honest. Spend money and time to build a team and then 3-4 months that team is no good anymore. Spend more money and time building another team and again, 3-4 months later that team is no good and repeat the process. It's mind baffling that the player base continues to let it happen to begin with.
It reminds me of women that are in an abusive relationship that keep telling themselves is going to get better. The thing is, it's not and one day that woman grabs a gun and kills the abuser. Just my take on CG's inability to understand balance.
What's the alternative? a stale meta for months on end? True balance with most teams being equal to eachother and mods being the only divide?
I'll take a meta change every 3-4 months over those alternatives.
Also, you might want to talk to someone about that 2nd paragraph, seems like that would do you some good.
The alternative is a healthy game that every faction has a place. I mean hey, if you enjoy seeing and fighting the same teams day in and day out then good for you. But for a game that has this many characters in it, it's a sad shame that 80% are never even used. I've said it before and I'll say it one last time. You want to end metas? End the **** AI to allow more team comps to be viable in arena.
You do realize that most teams at the moment are not viable because they aren't able to win on offense right? So i highly doubt that a better AI would end metas, if anything it would make it worse.
Anyway, you seem to want all teams to be somewhat equal. How would that work though? If there aren't any teams significantly better than others, if jawas could beat revan, if clones could beat traya, what would the difference be between a top5 player and a top500 player? Getting a team of 5 up to g12 isn't that hard and everyone enevitably will, so the only divide will be mods? turning arena even more into who can refresh the most will take top ranks?
I seriously don't see how that would be better than how it currently is. I'm not oblivious to the downside of the meta, having to battle the same team rather often, but i think the alternative isn't any better, just different. On top of that i don't think ea/cg are capable of balancing the teams like that, which is a rather difficult task.
Guys, loving the banter! - Great to see such a bustling thread! - I love all your points I think everyone has made reasonably constructive argument back and forth. Clearly their is plenty of support for and against Revan being OP.
My original message, and remember I am a little BIAS here because I don't have REVAN, I have just obtained Traya after a long hard 8 month guild effort slog, it was evident that My Treya lead Sith squad was getting pulverised by Revan, who virtually wiped out Traya in about 20 seconds. My initial thoughts after an 8 month grind was ****, why have I spent all this F in time getting this char! - Revans release was a slap in the face for the thousands of players and guilds still working to get her.
Since this post, I have played around with my team and I now run a EMP P lead, with treya DN, Sion and Thrawn. The AI, still hunts and slaughters treya which is annoying, but I am finding a small ray of light. Its R N G based a lot of the time, and a bit of luck.
I still drop 20 slots over night and the team gets battered on defence by CLS / CHEWI and Revan teams. So to sum up, I have accepted Revan, the game must evolve and new content must play its course.
However my original message was that I thought it bad of CG to offer little consideration to players like me who were finishing or still on their traya journey to just render her worthless VS revan.
Furthermore, to an injury to already mortal wound. CG's ability to turn arena around on its head just when you have spent months farming s somewhat a speciality of theirs!!!! having just got my Geo's to g12, the new Anakin ship with Windu lead obliterates them.
So its the Revan situation all over again!
The Rule I have discovered with this game is if you don't pay, then as far as PVP is concerned gentle farm everything and stock pile everything because you can not anticipate their next move.
It amazes me that people still spend money on this game to be honest. Spend money and time to build a team and then 3-4 months that team is no good anymore. Spend more money and time building another team and again, 3-4 months later that team is no good and repeat the process. It's mind baffling that the player base continues to let it happen to begin with.
It reminds me of women that are in an abusive relationship that keep telling themselves is going to get better. The thing is, it's not and one day that woman grabs a gun and kills the abuser. Just my take on CG's inability to understand balance.
What's the alternative? a stale meta for months on end? True balance with most teams being equal to eachother and mods being the only divide?
I'll take a meta change every 3-4 months over those alternatives.
Also, you might want to talk to someone about that 2nd paragraph, seems like that would do you some good.
The alternative is a healthy game that every faction has a place. I mean hey, if you enjoy seeing and fighting the same teams day in and day out then good for you. But for a game that has this many characters in it, it's a sad shame that 80% are never even used. I've said it before and I'll say it one last time. You want to end metas? End the **** AI to allow more team comps to be viable in arena.
You do realize that most teams at the moment are not viable because they aren't able to win on offense right? So i highly doubt that a better AI would end metas, if anything it would make it worse.
Anyway, you seem to want all teams to be somewhat equal. How would that work though? If there aren't any teams significantly better than others, if jawas could beat revan, if clones could beat traya, what would the difference be between a top5 player and a top500 player? Getting a team of 5 up to g12 isn't that hard and everyone enevitably will, so the only divide will be mods? turning arena even more into who can refresh the most will take top ranks?
I seriously don't see how that would be better than how it currently is. I'm not oblivious to the downside of the meta, having to battle the same team rather often, but i think the alternative isn't any better, just different. On top of that i don't think ea/cg are capable of balancing the teams like that, which is a rather difficult task.
I can agree with CG's inability to understand or know how to balance things out. Revan kind of made that pretty clear. So what's next? How will they design a new toon to eliminate the revan meta while keeping the game healthy? The answer is, they can't. And that's fact.
multiple teams are able to beat revan, so i imagine that will be the case with revan if a hard counter will be introduced. Every "OP" meta so far has been beatable with an (somewhat equally modded) entirely different team.
i guess it all depends on what you consider "healthy", but arena has always been like this.
I'd also like to mention that when they introduced protection to the game, they did re-balance all toons. People won't like it when it happens for obvious reasons, but that's also an option if it reallly gets out of hand. They only tweaked base stats, so those insanely long kits will still be powerfull. Then again, a revan who doesn't move first is a whole lot less intimidating.
ps. just because cg has a different view on how to balance their game does't mean they don't understand how to balance things out. My point was that it's very, very difficult to balance 160+ toons that can form 5 man teams which are all somewhat equal.
Guys, loving the banter! - Great to see such a bustling thread! - I love all your points I think everyone has made reasonably constructive argument back and forth. Clearly their is plenty of support for and against Revan being OP.
My original message, and remember I am a little BIAS here because I don't have REVAN, I have just obtained Traya after a long hard 8 month guild effort slog, it was evident that My Treya lead Sith squad was getting pulverised by Revan, who virtually wiped out Traya in about 20 seconds. My initial thoughts after an 8 month grind was ****, why have I spent all this F in time getting this char! - Revans release was a slap in the face for the thousands of players and guilds still working to get her.
Since this post, I have played around with my team and I now run a EMP P lead, with treya DN, Sion and Thrawn. The AI, still hunts and slaughters treya which is annoying, but I am finding a small ray of light. Its R N G based a lot of the time, and a bit of luck.
I still drop 20 slots over night and the team gets battered on defence by CLS / CHEWI and Revan teams. So to sum up, I have accepted Revan, the game must evolve and new content must play its course.
However my original message was that I thought it bad of CG to offer little consideration to players like me who were finishing or still on their traya journey to just render her worthless VS revan.
Furthermore, to an injury to already mortal wound. CG's ability to turn arena around on its head just when you have spent months farming s somewhat a speciality of theirs!!!! having just got my Geo's to g12, the new Anakin ship with Windu lead obliterates them.
So its the Revan situation all over again!
The Rule I have discovered with this game is if you don't pay, then as far as PVP is concerned gentle farm everything and stock pile everything because you can not anticipate their next move.
It amazes me that people still spend money on this game to be honest. Spend money and time to build a team and then 3-4 months that team is no good anymore. Spend more money and time building another team and again, 3-4 months later that team is no good and repeat the process. It's mind baffling that the player base continues to let it happen to begin with.
It reminds me of women that are in an abusive relationship that keep telling themselves is going to get better. The thing is, it's not and one day that woman grabs a gun and kills the abuser. Just my take on CG's inability to understand balance.
What's the alternative? a stale meta for months on end? True balance with most teams being equal to eachother and mods being the only divide?
I'll take a meta change every 3-4 months over those alternatives.
Also, you might want to talk to someone about that 2nd paragraph, seems like that would do you some good.
The alternative is a healthy game that every faction has a place. I mean hey, if you enjoy seeing and fighting the same teams day in and day out then good for you. But for a game that has this many characters in it, it's a sad shame that 80% are never even used. I've said it before and I'll say it one last time. You want to end metas? End the **** AI to allow more team comps to be viable in arena.
You do realize that most teams at the moment are not viable because they aren't able to win on offense right? So i highly doubt that a better AI would end metas, if anything it would make it worse.
Anyway, you seem to want all teams to be somewhat equal. How would that work though? If there aren't any teams significantly better than others, if jawas could beat revan, if clones could beat traya, what would the difference be between a top5 player and a top500 player? Getting a team of 5 up to g12 isn't that hard and everyone enevitably will, so the only divide will be mods? turning arena even more into who can refresh the most will take top ranks?
I seriously don't see how that would be better than how it currently is. I'm not oblivious to the downside of the meta, having to battle the same team rather often, but i think the alternative isn't any better, just different. On top of that i don't think ea/cg are capable of balancing the teams like that, which is a rather difficult task.
I can agree with CG's inability to understand or know how to balance things out. Revan kind of made that pretty clear. So what's next? How will they design a new toon to eliminate the revan meta while keeping the game healthy? The answer is, they can't. And that's fact.
multiple teams are able to beat revan, so i imagine that will be the case with revan if a hard counter will be introduced. Every "OP" meta so far has been beatable with an (somewhat equally modded) entirely different team.
i guess it all depends on what you consider "healthy", but arena has always been like this.
I'd also like to mention that when they introduced protection to the game, they did re-balance all toons. People won't like it when it happens for obvious reasons, but that's also an option if it reallly gets out of hand. They only tweaked base stats, so those insanely long kits will still be powerfull. Then again, a revan who doesn't move first is a whole lot less intimidating.
ps. just because cg has a different view on how to balance their game does't mean they don't understand how to balance things out. My point was that it's very, very difficult to balance 160+ toons that can form 5 man teams which are all somewhat equal.
Yeah I can agree with that. Thanks for your insight.
great, now i feel like a d-bagg lecturing random strangers. lmao
CG have said in in various communications that they want to keep arena as mixed and as inventive as possible. CG don't want just the META to be 1 TEAM or 1 LEADER, I believe they do work hard to try and make it even, or at least diverse. We all love wonderous verity after all! - Looking back over the META's I cant hand on heart say that's being achieved right now when I look at my shard I see, top 50 as 20 odd revan, 30 odd TRAYA then 1 or 2 NS and maybe 5 CHEWI/CLS, and a few EP. I mean that's what 5 teams. Can you call that diverse? - I don't think the top 10 is very diverse, its essentially REVAN with different toons.
Diverse to me means 3/4 teams in top equally balanced and favourable. I think if everyone had revan right now, then everyone would be balls deep in modding and teaming him up.
CG have said in in various communications that they want to keep arena as mixed and as inventive as possible. CG don't want just the META to be 1 TEAM or 1 LEADER, I believe they do work hard to try and make it even, or at least diverse. We all love wonderous verity after all! - Looking back over the META's I cant hand on heart say that's being achieved right now when I look at my shard I see, top 50 as 20 odd revan, 30 odd TRAYA then 1 or 2 NS and maybe 5 CHEWI/CLS, and a few EP. I mean that's what 5 teams. Can you call that diverse? - I don't think the top 10 is very diverse, its essentially REVAN with different toons.
Diverse to me means 3/4 teams in top equally balanced and favourable. I think if everyone had revan right now, then everyone would be balls deep in modding and teaming him up.
they want to make a profit so there will always be that one team that separates so people can buy it to reach the top of arena for self esteem purposes doubt many late game players need crystals or squad currency. And u won’t c diversity because other teams don’t have capacity of getting there. If I c NS or Phoenix u know diversity I click on fast don’t have to check stats lol.
I just want to know what CG intention was for revans kit? Because a lot of the kit is to hate on traya but in the end the only consistent team that can beat revan is traya and now all the other teams are pushed out of arena. So my point is I believe CG put alittle to much into revans kit and now 1 of 2 things will happen. New toons introduce will not be exciting as their kit likely won’t work in arena vs revan teams and thus less interest or they go even further over the top with more text to out do revans kit. I don’t like ether of those scenarios...
The problem is CG should stop making any one toon almighty, just for the sake of railing in $. Look at what is happening now, in a few days or weeks when everyone properly modded their newly obtained Revan (and probably most of the existing players now are able to obtain Revan this 2nd time around), we will have arenas dominated by Revan everywhere. Not just top 10 or 30 or so, but EVERYWHERE. Quite a boring arena i say. and if you are running anything else, your chance of holding on defense is probably not as good.
It's time for CG to stop introducing new toons, but rather start more old toons rework. Otherwise you gonna end up with older players having disadvantage against new players. Because if we are talking about the same GP level for grand arena, then new players will always have the better and more updated more oped toons while the existing players will start having more and more outdated toons. This is already happening in grand arenas.
The problem is CG should stop making any one toon almighty, just for the sake of railing in $. Look at what is happening now, in a few days or weeks when everyone properly modded their newly obtained Revan (and probably most of the existing players now are able to obtain Revan this 2nd time around), we will have arenas dominated by Revan everywhere. Not just top 10 or 30 or so, but EVERYWHERE. Quite a boring arena i say. and if you are running anything else, your chance of holding on defense is probably not as good.
It's time for CG to stop introducing new toons, but rather start more old toons rework. Otherwise you gonna end up with older players having disadvantage against new players. Because if we are talking about the same GP level for grand arena, then new players will always have the better and more updated more oped toons while the existing players will start having more and more outdated toons. This is already happening in grand arenas.
Read the Road Ahead, that's what they're focusing on at the moment. At least with the Separatist rework finally coming.
At last people actually agree. Problem is you always have people who think the earth is flat.
I am a flat earther and that is offensive to me, good job you believe the lies the government tells you that it is round. If you all could just believe for yourself that you are being lied to you would all be free from the lies.
The problem is CG should stop making any one toon almighty, just for the sake of railing in $. Look at what is happening now, in a few days or weeks when everyone properly modded their newly obtained Revan (and probably most of the existing players now are able to obtain Revan this 2nd time around), we will have arenas dominated by Revan everywhere. Not just top 10 or 30 or so, but EVERYWHERE. Quite a boring arena i say. and if you are running anything else, your chance of holding on defense is probably not as good.
It's time for CG to stop introducing new toons, but rather start more old toons rework. Otherwise you gonna end up with older players having disadvantage against new players. Because if we are talking about the same GP level for grand arena, then new players will always have the better and more updated more oped toons while the existing players will start having more and more outdated toons. This is already happening in grand arenas.
Yeah, things were so much different/better back when Wedge showed up (just to name ONE older meta), all the different squads...oh wait it was just Wedge and Lando.
/s
Replies
With CG their is definitely balance issues and tweaks to be carefully considered. You do have to cater for the fast moving players the whales, who buy up everything and are always waiting and eager for more! If people want to spend their hard earned cash then their will never be a shortage of gaming developers happy to take that cash from them. Players who speed at a more leisurely rate again you need to cater for these also, or from time to time at least try to help them catch up, and obviously those who do not spend a single dime, well the fact that play / promote and enjoy your games means their always considered to be warm leads or potential customers so you need to think of new and exciting ways to bait and temp them as they are the players that will become spenders and replace anyone falling back on spend for what ever reason. Its like plate spinning you have to keep moving around from each one to ensure none fall off and smash.
I don't want to defend CG too much on this point but its a tremendous balancing act, and undoubtedly they will get things right and horribly wrong. I think the best way to ensure things move forward on sure footing is always to provide as much information, rhyme or reason for doing things and keep players informed. if your going to do something that could be unpopular then explain your reasoning first. Communication is the key in my humble opinion and consideration when weighing things up. If you offer reasoning and rationalise motivations behind your moves and objectives then it helps players to accept, embrace and where ever possible plan!
What CG need to understand is investing CASH is very important in terms of rewarding that investment but TIME is a very precious commodity also for players and that needs a tremendous amount of respect because this game is a massively time consuming game investment wise.
It is a balance and providing CG respect these things then we cant ask much more of them. At the end of the day their are no perfect people in the game only perfect intensions.
FTFY.
Every time I see one of these threads decrying how useless a toon is, I want to go in and add (IN ARENA) to the end of every sentence. It's like people forget that this game isn't just a PVP arena grudge match.
You do realize that most teams at the moment are not viable because they aren't able to win on offense right? So i highly doubt that a better AI would end metas, if anything it would make it worse.
Anyway, you seem to want all teams to be somewhat equal. How would that work though? If there aren't any teams significantly better than others, if jawas could beat revan, if clones could beat traya, what would the difference be between a top5 player and a top500 player? Getting a team of 5 up to g12 isn't that hard and everyone enevitably will, so the only divide will be mods? turning arena even more into who can refresh the most will take top ranks?
I seriously don't see how that would be better than how it currently is. I'm not oblivious to the downside of the meta, having to battle the same team rather often, but i think the alternative isn't any better, just different. On top of that i don't think ea/cg are capable of balancing the teams like that, which is a rather difficult task.
multiple teams are able to beat revan, so i imagine that will be the case with revan if a hard counter will be introduced. Every "OP" meta so far has been beatable with an (somewhat equally modded) entirely different team.
i guess it all depends on what you consider "healthy", but arena has always been like this.
I'd also like to mention that when they introduced protection to the game, they did re-balance all toons. People won't like it when it happens for obvious reasons, but that's also an option if it reallly gets out of hand. They only tweaked base stats, so those insanely long kits will still be powerfull. Then again, a revan who doesn't move first is a whole lot less intimidating.
ps. just because cg has a different view on how to balance their game does't mean they don't understand how to balance things out. My point was that it's very, very difficult to balance 160+ toons that can form 5 man teams which are all somewhat equal.
great, now i feel like a d-bagg lecturing random strangers. lmao
Diverse to me means 3/4 teams in top equally balanced and favourable. I think if everyone had revan right now, then everyone would be balls deep in modding and teaming him up.
Line: xSNAKEMAN
It's time for CG to stop introducing new toons, but rather start more old toons rework. Otherwise you gonna end up with older players having disadvantage against new players. Because if we are talking about the same GP level for grand arena, then new players will always have the better and more updated more oped toons while the existing players will start having more and more outdated toons. This is already happening in grand arenas.
Read the Road Ahead, that's what they're focusing on at the moment. At least with the Separatist rework finally coming.
I am a flat earther and that is offensive to me, good job you believe the lies the government tells you that it is round. If you all could just believe for yourself that you are being lied to you would all be free from the lies.
Geez, some people.
Yeah, things were so much different/better back when Wedge showed up (just to name ONE older meta), all the different squads...oh wait it was just Wedge and Lando.
/s