GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • Look at it this way in terms of money in society.

    GP is essentially how much money you've spent in your lifetime. However that doesn't measure how much money you actually have or Net Worth.

    My great grandparents lived in a small split-home in town with an old car and no air conditioning. They spent what a low-middle class couple would spend. However they actually had over a million $ to their name. They just never spent it.

    What we want is to be paired by our Net Worth or something similar, not by how much we spend. Because an actual low-middle class couple is not the same as my great grandparents who could by a mansion any day they wanted. In life they have an advantage because if their house burned down, they'd just buy a new one. If a regular low-middle class family's house burnt down, they're in trouble.

    I know that's a real world example for a game, but the principles are the same of what at least I'm trying to argue.
  • No_Try
    3540 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Look at it this way in terms of money in society.

    GP is essentially how much money you've spent in your lifetime. However that doesn't measure how much money you actually have or Net Worth.

    My great grandparents lived in a small split-home in town with an old car and no air conditioning. They spent what a low-middle class couple would spend. However they actually had over a million $ to their name. They just never spent it.

    What we want is to be paired by our Net Worth or something similar, not by how much we spend. Because an actual low-middle class couple is not the same as my great grandparents who could by a mansion any day they wanted. In life they have an advantage because if their house burned down, they'd just buy a new one. If a regular low-middle class family's house burnt down, they're in trouble.

    I know that's a real world example for a game, but the principles are the same of what at least I'm trying to argue.

    Can you put down what's representative of net worth and how to calculate it in this game please?
  • No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    My only desire is for GP to be made a good representative of either the cost of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcomes (or a blend of these two). Currently it's nowhere close.

    And if we just go by the result, I won all my matches so far besides 1 (with an opponent that has 2x good mods as mine) despite being at disadvantage several times with approx 1.3M worth of fluff. I should say I enjoy the challenge.

    So it's not my personal grump that keeps me bringing me back to these topics, but my sense of fairness and my claim on being able to locate the problem/solution.

    Again, I would argue that it does... We are all given the exact same resources at the beginning of the game and we are allowed to build our roster the way we want.... You can choose to get 6 characters up to G8, or you can chose to use them to get one character to G12...... That is up to you.... But, one team of G12's, if chosen right, is infinitely more useful than 6 teams of G8......
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    Look at it this way in terms of money in society.

    GP is essentially how much money you've spent in your lifetime. However that doesn't measure how much money you actually have or Net Worth.

    My great grandparents lived in a small split-home in town with an old car and no air conditioning. They spent what a low-middle class couple would spend. However they actually had over a million $ to their name. They just never spent it.

    What we want is to be paired by our Net Worth or something similar, not by how much we spend. Because an actual low-middle class couple is not the same as my great grandparents who could by a mansion any day they wanted. In life they have an advantage because if their house burned down, they'd just buy a new one. If a regular low-middle class family's house burnt down, they're in trouble.

    I know that's a real world example for a game, but the principles are the same of what at least I'm trying to argue.

    So, to use your analogy, you want to waste all of your money and still be given the same rewards as the person who saved and did without to get what they have?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Place 2 Olympic level runners in a race, the can both have the best mile times and may even be close.

    One runs marathons and the other shorter races.

    They are equals athletically and in many respects, but one will have a clear advantage in a marathon.

    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    In this case it's not though, is it? Because GA is a new development, and until it was released the decision points a player would use to make this call were very different.

    What song would the "You made your choices" brigade be singing if a new competitive mode somehow rewarded having a ton of fluff in your roster and having a high count of concentrated G12 toons and a low count of mid-range partially built suddenly became a significant liability for competition? I know *exactly*
    what song they'd be singing.

    The OP has a point -- CG has repeatedly iterated that building your roster and your collection is a fundamental backbone of the experience, but they've changed the equation. So yes -- it is about building your roster, but nobody *chose* to build their roster this way *in spite* of how it gets used in GA. If building your roster is meant to be the backbone of the experience in the game, GA needs a better tuned matchmaking system.

    I'm by no means 'cream of the crop' in GA, but I probably fall close to average. But nevertheless I regularly get opponents with more than double my count of G12 toons and 10 or more zetas above me. I also regularly get opponents with less than half of what I have, and in some cases 20% of my zeta count or less. Those players on my bottom curve can get matched to ones on the top of my curve -- and I imagine when your GA options are "Guy you certainly can't beat" or "Guy who will effortlessly bulldoze you so hard you want to quit" that the game mode has got to be a pretty toxic experience.

    It's easy to say "You made your choices" when you are on the top of this curve, but when you're on the bottom it's pretty easy to feel like CG victimized you and punished you for choices you could not have known were wrong at the time, because they weren't.
  • No_Try
    3540 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    My only desire is for GP to be made a good representative of either the cost of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcomes (or a blend of these two). Currently it's nowhere close.

    And if we just go by the result, I won all my matches so far besides 1 (with an opponent that has 2x good mods as mine) despite being at disadvantage several times with approx 1.3M worth of fluff. I should say I enjoy the challenge.

    So it's not my personal grump that keeps me bringing me back to these topics, but my sense of fairness and my claim on being able to locate the problem/solution.

    Again, I would argue that it does... We are all given the exact same resources at the beginning of the game and we are allowed to build our roster the way we want.... You can choose to get 6 characters up to G8, or you can chose to use them to get one character to G12...... That is up to you.... But, one team of G12's, if chosen right, is infinitely more useful than 6 teams of G8......

    I'm not arguing against the element of choice mind you, I'm arguing against fluff being way overpriced GPwise. If the disrapencies didn't exist I would be getting what I exactly paid for.
  • Snake2
    1366 posts Member
    I'm not arguing against the element of choice mind you, I'm arguing against fluff being way overpriced GPwise. If the disrapencies didn't exist I would be getting what I exactly paid for.

    Yup. As a random example: when I started playing this game over 3 years ago, it was a very good idea to gear up luminara. She had a top 2 heal. She hit hard. She had ability block. So I took her to g8 which was max at the time. Since rancor came out she's been worthless, and thus she is still exactly at g8 like she was 3 years ago.

    G8 lumi with no omegas is 13k power. My super amazing revan is 27k power fully maxed. Is my g8 lumi half as good as revan? No. I can't imagine a situation in ga where I'd even be able to use her(or in any game mode honestly).

    Of course matchmaking could be improved by improving the power formula. To act like it's perfect already is silly.

    All that being said, (if the goal is close battles) matchmaking should be weighted way more toward mod speed than anything else. all my previous match ups have worked that way. I get out geared most of the time, but when I'm faster I win, when speed is close, the battle is close, and the one time I was vastly outsped I lost a battle that wasn't close.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Look at it this way in terms of money in society.

    GP is essentially how much money you've spent in your lifetime. However that doesn't measure how much money you actually have or Net Worth.

    My great grandparents lived in a small split-home in town with an old car and no air conditioning. They spent what a low-middle class couple would spend. However they actually had over a million $ to their name. They just never spent it.

    What we want is to be paired by our Net Worth or something similar, not by how much we spend. Because an actual low-middle class couple is not the same as my great grandparents who could by a mansion any day they wanted. In life they have an advantage because if their house burned down, they'd just buy a new one. If a regular low-middle class family's house burnt down, they're in trouble.

    I know that's a real world example for a game, but the principles are the same of what at least I'm trying to argue.

    So, to use your analogy, you want to waste all of your money and still be given the same rewards as the person who saved and did without to get what they have?

    Don't take my analogy as an exact 100% comparison. In this game money is a lot of things. Gear, Ability mats, Credits, Zetas, Stars, Mods, etc.

    Some of those are in excess, Credits, Ability mats and lots of low gear for me are in excess.

    There have been TONS of posts about how to better the matchmaking. At least better than just pure GP.

    If people claim GA is about resource management, then the matchmaking should be decided by how much TOTAL resources have been acquired by a player. Including the resources they have NOT used. If that player "managed their resources" the best, then they would have the advantage.

    But obviously the matchmaking does not account for resources NOT used so it's not actually about "resource management".

    That's what my analogy was about.
  • Tanzos
    191 posts Member
    edited February 27
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    Again, I would argue that it does... We are all given the exact same resources at the beginning of the game and we are allowed to build our roster the way we want.... You can choose to get 6 characters up to G8, or you can chose to use them to get one character to G12...... That is up to you.... But, one team of G12's, if chosen right, is infinitely more useful than 6 teams of G8......

    Wait, so what gear to get to G8 helps me get to G12? How do I do that? I've got 100's of purple laptops I'd like to make into golden eyeballs. Do share.
  • So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.
  • No_Try
    3540 posts Member
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    Again, I would argue that it does... We are all given the exact same resources at the beginning of the game and we are allowed to build our roster the way we want.... You can choose to get 6 characters up to G8, or you can chose to use them to get one character to G12...... That is up to you.... But, one team of G12's, if chosen right, is infinitely more useful than 6 teams of G8......

    Wait, so what gear to get to G8 helps me get to G12? How do I do that? I've got 100's of purple laptops I'd like to make into golden eyeballs. Do share.

    You can trade in your 100's of laptops if you like.... But you are going to need them to get lots of toons from g8-g12......

    ik5v04ss6ny2.jpg
  • No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.
  • No_Try
    3540 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.

    Thus we are not arguing about which toons are more useful, are we? Everyone can make their choice on that and are completely responsible for the result.

    There are many veins of arguments and suggestions made throughout this topic. Like any other contraversial subject it will go on until something changes or everyone loses interest in the debate.

    You asking for a lock on a completely legitimate discussion is outright rude if nothing else. Noone is at eachother's throat or going over forum guidelines here.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.

    Thus we are not arguing about which toons are more useful, are we? Everyone can make their choice on that and are completely responsible for the result.

    There are many veins of arguments and suggestions made throughout this topic. Like any other contraversial subject it will go on until something changes or everyone loses interest in the debate.

    You asking for a lock on a completely legitimate discussion is outright rude if nothing else. Noone is at eachother's throat or going over forum guidelines here.

    As i said, many times. There’s been many posts like this and they all end the same way.

    So characters? How else do we aquire gp? Its all done on characters alone... so technically yes, essentially it’s all about characters and how players havant resourse-managed their characters. I don&5 have 600,000 go from stored ability mats or gear in my inventory.. it’s all down to characters in your roster So yes i do ask for posts like these to be locked. That’s my general opinion
  • Nema
    136 posts Member
    So you weren't competitive and complain about not having the advantage in a competitive setting
  • Nema wrote: »
    So you weren't competitive and complain about not having the advantage in a competitive setting

    No, we feel there should be no advantage or disadvantage.
  • No_Try
    3540 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.

    Thus we are not arguing about which toons are more useful, are we? Everyone can make their choice on that and are completely responsible for the result.

    There are many veins of arguments and suggestions made throughout this topic. Like any other contraversial subject it will go on until something changes or everyone loses interest in the debate.

    You asking for a lock on a completely legitimate discussion is outright rude if nothing else. Noone is at eachother's throat or going over forum guidelines here.

    As i said, many times. There’s been many posts like this and they all end the same way.

    So characters? How else do we aquire gp? Its all done on characters alone... so technically yes, essentially it’s all about characters and how players havant resourse-managed their characters. I don&5 have 600,000 go from stored ability mats or gear in my inventory.. it’s all down to characters in your roster So yes i do ask for posts like these to be locked. That’s my general opinion

    Let's hug

    qzw4nqkt8nyl.jpg
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    Nema wrote: »
    So you weren't competitive and complain about not having the advantage in a competitive setting

    No, we feel there should be no advantage or disadvantage.

    Where and what is the advantage?! This is the issue.. there is no disadvantage or advantage. You’re equally matched.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    Nema wrote: »
    So you weren't competitive and complain about not having the advantage in a competitive setting

    No, we feel there should be no advantage or disadvantage.

    Where and what is the advantage?! This is the issue.. there is no disadvantage or advantage. You’re equally matched.

    Um, anyone else wanna take this one?

    You got some reading up to do friend. 3 months of forum posts about this and you truly believe it's equally matched? GP is not a measure of equality. Arena is based on time started, that's equal for your arena shard. But GP is not an equal measurement of roster strength.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....
  • Tanzos
    191 posts Member
    edited February 27
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Nema wrote: »
    So you weren't competitive and complain about not having the advantage in a competitive setting

    No, we feel there should be no advantage or disadvantage.

    Where and what is the advantage?! This is the issue.. there is no disadvantage or advantage. You’re equally matched.

    Um, anyone else wanna take this one?

    You got some reading up to do friend. 3 months of forum posts about this and you truly believe it's equally matched? GP is not a measure of equality. Arena is based on time started, that's equal for your arena shard. But GP is not an equal measurement of roster strength.

    Disillusion at its finest.


    Firstly whats arena got to do with this discussion? Areana is based on 1 team alone. I can have 500k gp and be ranked 1 on arena providing i had revan and the usual??? You’ve lost me there.

    Secondly, gp is measured in your roster and nothing else, so you being 3 mill go facing some one with half that??? Is a fair fight? That’s like placing a professional boxer vs a junior boxer making his first debut... again you’ve lost me as to how gp is not an equal measurement of roster strength?


  • TRanger
    292 posts Member
    edited February 27
    No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.

    No we don't get too choose what we bring we are matched up and forced into those top matches. As stated multiple times..I can not take off the gear or reverse the ability to lower GP. And redo my toons too match yours. I don't understand how you can be so complacent in your match vs guys you can easily overcome with little or no effort. I would still be as I am today..give me a fair match.

    Let's stop getting side tracked and refocus on the issue of match making ...... matching could be done better...base it on the total Zata count and g12 of all a person's toons then match vs that...as stated you can only place so many squads anyway. Over 10million downloads in thiz game there are plenty people to fill out a GA only using 8 at a time..that could be more evenly matched competition. So you shouldn't have to race a super fast car ..well I shouldn't either..I want to race my golf cart.
  • If you want those super rewards race your car vs car not car vs golf cart.
  • TRanger wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    So you guys basically only want your top characters counted to gp... lol please. Its your own mistake for building them characters up, i bet you use them characters in hoth battles tho!

    Kyno for the love of god, please lock this post. It’s the same argument over and over again.

    Evert topic needs a troll that will strawman everything. Thanks for bloating to post count and constantly bringing it forth.

    No i just tell it how it is..

    There’s many more posts like this and they all end in tears because fact like my point and Bubbas. Its a fair fight, What you bring to the table is down to you. If you being 60 characters all gear 10 that’s down to you, if your opponent brings 10 gear 12’s then well done him for investing TONS of kit on them characters and deserves the win.

    Lets make it more interesting though, if that guy brings 10 gear 12 completely random characters with no synergy but your 60 chatscters all syng, who’s going to win? I bet alot of money you will if you play your cards right. You still have the same Gp.

    No we don't get too choose what we bring we are matched up and forced into those top matches. As stated multiple times..I can not take off the gear or reverse the ability to lower GP.

    That’s because you bring your entire roster to the table. You have all the characters to chose from... this is the argument. If you fluffed your characters that’s your own doing. I didn’t fluff my characters and i dominate in my zone every time BUT i also play smart and set my defences accordingly to the meta and use attackers according to the meta. I mean... who woulda thought i needed to gear individual characters.

    Disillusioned.

    Why should you be allowed to drop Gp? That would mean rank 1players could drop to the bottom league and just secrure a sure win every time and the poor devils that have to face them league 1 players are then at the disadvantage. Sorry but you are wrong, and by the sounds of it a person continuously losing in the ga? Here’s my advise, focus on your teams. 1 at a time. I got 6 stupidly strong teams and the rest of my roster is near garbage. I can barely scrap a hit 2-4000 damage on them compared to my g10-12 teams that hit like a ton of bricks because i resourced and built them properly and took advice from everyone else on correct modding.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif

    Love the toolman gif but you are taking the analogy a bit too seriously.... In swgoh terms, you can certainly take a lot of the gear and credits used to up a junk toon and put them into a z06 level toon.....
  • Just stating this as fact - no subtext.

    My GP is 3.53M. My opponent is 3.52M.

    I have 45 G12 and 44 zetas.

    My opponent has 23 G12 and 25 zetas.

    Very clear statement of how GP is not any way to do matching if CG want a truly competitive mode.
    They need to take roster development in to account.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif

    Love the toolman gif but you are taking the analogy a bit too seriously.... In swgoh terms, you can certainly take a lot of the gear and credits used to up a junk toon and put them into a z06 level toon.....

    Ah thank you.

    Yes I know that but not really until you hit purple does it actually need to go towards the top tier. But I stopped at purple, and any Holo Projector, Carbanti, Cuff, Stun Gun, even those Green Disc thingies don't get used on anyone not "useful". I've got a lot of laptops but I've already placed them where needed.

    If I ungeared my bottom half I doubt I'd be able to add much to my quest for G12's.
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