GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • Gair wrote: »
    Factors that should have been included.

    - Average arena rank
    - Numerical number of G12s
    - Quality of mods (15/20+ speeds)

    If you base it off GP , then you end up with someone who has 10x G12s vs someone who has none but similar power due to just leveling trash toons.

    Average arena rank means nothing ...if you are on a newer shard such as my self you can easily play high. currently im rank 150 but if i was on a older shard id be int he 1ks.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif

    Love the toolman gif but you are taking the analogy a bit too seriously.... In swgoh terms, you can certainly take a lot of the gear and credits used to up a junk toon and put them into a z06 level toon.....

    Ah thank you.

    Yes I know that but not really until you hit purple does it actually need to go towards the top tier. But I stopped at purple, and any Holo Projector, Carbanti, Cuff, Stun Gun, even those Green Disc thingies don't get used on anyone not "useful". I've got a lot of laptops but I've already placed them where needed.

    If I ungeared my bottom half I doubt I'd be able to add much to my quest for G12's.

    I think you may be surprised.... I am gearing up the bugs as a secondary fleet.... Sun Fac needs a full carbanti just to reach g8...... Unless you were talking g7 and not g8.....
  • Tanzos
    184 posts Member
    edited February 28
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif

    Love the toolman gif but you are taking the analogy a bit too seriously.... In swgoh terms, you can certainly take a lot of the gear and credits used to up a junk toon and put them into a z06 level toon.....

    Ah thank you.

    Yes I know that but not really until you hit purple does it actually need to go towards the top tier. But I stopped at purple, and any Holo Projector, Carbanti, Cuff, Stun Gun, even those Green Disc thingies don't get used on anyone not "useful". I've got a lot of laptops but I've already placed them where needed.

    If I ungeared my bottom half I doubt I'd be able to add much to my quest for G12's.

    I think you may be surprised.... I am gearing up the bugs as a secondary fleet.... Sun Fac needs a full carbanti just to reach g8...... Unless you were talking g7 and not g8.....

    Yeah there are some outliers and those are probably worth the Carbanti, like Fun Sac, which I did get to G11. But I doubt people are throwing a Carbanti on Mob Enforcer.

    It's like Clone Wars Chewie, nobody actually spends energy to farm him (or should). But his shards just come naturally so he somehow becomes 7* without even trying.

    It's those resources that you get from challenges that we have a bunch of or come from farming newly released characters on single hard nodes that I've used on my bottom half. I didn't spend energy to get them, I just have them.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    TRanger wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    Weak characters didn't "help" you win. You won because you have the dominant fleet.

    I had weak characters to put on my defense, so that I could save all my strong and mediocre characters for offense to make sure, that I would be able to clear my opponent's board. I was at a quite large disadvantage in characters, remember?! So yes, they helped me.

    I do applaud you for winning under the quite large disadvantage.

    I actually believe, that I had the advantage, because of my strong fleet. Even though my opponent ranked 20 in fleet arena, his ships were significantly weaker than mine, giving me the advantage.
    Tanzos wrote: »
    However, there shouldn't be a disadvantage. No one should have an advantage over someone else. It should be a relatively fair matchup and whoever set the best defense and played the best offense wins.

    I disagree. I believe, that even matchups are not fair for those, who have the stronger roster (same GP - less 'fluff'). Why should players with weaker rosters have an equal chance of winning prizes for rank 1 as the ones with stronger rosters? With even match-ups, players with much stronger rosters (still same GP) will end up at 0/3 victories, while players with far weaker rosters will end up with 3/3 and better prizes. I don't see how that is fair. Even and fair are two different things.
    Tanzos wrote: »
    At least that's what many of us want and I would assume the devs intended this game mode to be. "THE ULTIMATE TEST OF SKILL". But we have yet to even receive the smallest of responses from anyone official whether or not GA should be fair or if people should have advantages and disadvantages.

    We don't have anything official, but I believe it's safe to assume that it's intended that players with weaker rosters are mixed with players with stronger rosters (same GP).

    You say it again even after its been answered.

    I still haven't seen any answer that justifies, that players with weakly built rosters should have an advantage over players with strongly built rosters, by giving them easier opponents.
    Most of us talking about fluff. Joined before tw or GA existed. We built for TB not knowing TW was coming. We were coached by holotable hero in game mails to build GP (fluff) for better results in TB.

    At your. 2 mil GP, you clearly started game after TW came to be and the TB strategy became no longer appropriate. So thats why (to re answer your repeated question)

    You're assumptions are wrong. This alt is on a march '16 shard (but yes, it was cryogenized for 14 months shortly after creation). I hit level 85 with that account months before TB was introduced.

    Nevertheless, the scenario is exactly the same as for older accounts with 4 million GP. Some accounts are fluffed up, while others aren't. Some have significantly more g12 characters than others. Why should players with weaker rosters have easier access to win a GA?
    I should not be punished for joining the game at least a year before you.

    You are not punished. Nothing is taken away from you. Players with stronger rosters than you (same GP) simply have easier access to rank 1 prizes than you. Why should it be any different?

    Your argument is just silly...so you created an alt account to shed GP in favor of only having o.p. toons. And now you deserve to be given access to premium prizes because you no longer have to fight for them. This is basically what your saying am I right.

    Stop this trolling of yours and reason instead.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    You can't use a golf cart engine to build a Z06. Even if you got 20 of them lying around, might as well have 20 golf carts that run than 20 golf cart without engines collecting dust. At least that was what some of us did before GA.

    It's not like we took a Z06 engine and put it into a golf cart.

    Although I'd love to see that...
    6rzdskvnngb0.gif

    Love the toolman gif but you are taking the analogy a bit too seriously.... In swgoh terms, you can certainly take a lot of the gear and credits used to up a junk toon and put them into a z06 level toon.....

    Ah thank you.

    Yes I know that but not really until you hit purple does it actually need to go towards the top tier. But I stopped at purple, and any Holo Projector, Carbanti, Cuff, Stun Gun, even those Green Disc thingies don't get used on anyone not "useful". I've got a lot of laptops but I've already placed them where needed.

    If I ungeared my bottom half I doubt I'd be able to add much to my quest for G12's.

    I think you may be surprised.... I am gearing up the bugs as a secondary fleet.... Sun Fac needs a full carbanti just to reach g8...... Unless you were talking g7 and not g8.....

    Yeah there are some outliers and those are probably worth the Carbanti, like Fun Sac, which I did get to G11. But I doubt people are throwing a Carbanti on Mob Enforcer.

    It's like Clone Wars Chewie, nobody actually spends energy to farm him (or should). But his shards just come naturally so he somehow becomes 7* without even trying.

    It's those resources that you get from challenges that we have a bunch of or come from farming newly released characters on single hard nodes that I've used on my bottom half. I didn't spend energy to get them, I just have them.

    Lol..... Nice..... I call him "sum fak".....

    Tbh, there seems to be a difference in opinion that comes from mid game players (like me), and late game players (likely you..)......

    I think that some of these late game players that are complaing about facing someone that has a very lean, focused roster and have the same gp are facing whales....

    As sad as that is, I highly doubt CG is going to do anything to fix that....
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    Its adorable that you think G12 is apparently 2 pieces of G6 added together.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.

    Squads size is irrelevant. The only relevant things are:

    1. That you believe, that your defensive fleet will hold.
    2. That you are at a significant disadvantage in characters (otherwise you would probably win using a more conventional strategy as well)
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
    Every team has a counter. No team is unbeatable. What are you on about?

    But yes, since (when you apply this strategy) you are at a disadvantage in characters, you really need to save all your strong characters for offense. All. Each and every one.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.

    Squads size is irrelevant. The only relevant things are:

    1. That you believe, that your defensive fleet will hold.
    2. That you are at a significant disadvantage in characters (otherwise you would probably win using a more conventional strategy as well)
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
    Every team has a counter. No team is unbeatable. What are you on about?

    But yes, since (when you apply this strategy) you are at a disadvantage in characters, you really need to save all your strong characters for offense. All. Each and every one.

    You assume eveyone has same mod speed huh.

    How about your best team are all dead before they can taking a turn before a +120 speed revan.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.

    Squads size is irrelevant. The only relevant things are:

    1. That you believe, that your defensive fleet will hold.
    2. That you are at a significant disadvantage in characters (otherwise you would probably win using a more conventional strategy as well)
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
    Every team has a counter. No team is unbeatable. What are you on about?

    But yes, since (when you apply this strategy) you are at a disadvantage in characters, you really need to save all your strong characters for offense. All. Each and every one.

    You assume eveyone has same mod speed huh.

    How about your best team are all dead before they can taking a turn before a +120 speed revan.

    In general every team has a counter, like I stated. No team is unbeatable. But yes, not every roster contains every counter to every team. You're absoloutely right. However, I never claimed it did.

    I'm not sure what your point with this discussion is. It appears pointless to me. I believe, I answered your original question to me (how weak characters can help you win in GA) already in my first response to you.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    3.8m...yes I have been playing for awhile...the roster..was misspelled...good catch. And yes I have been inflating it by chasing meta toons recently..and I was playing long before TW....TB...and GA. But untill about ahead ago joined a guild to complete raids. So not alot of g12 toons with zatas. Yes I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum. Thanks for asking.

    Ok, let's put this in perspective... I have less than half of your overall GP, but I have 2/3 as many Zetas as you and also 2/3 as many g12.....

    The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect to always be chasing mets, hitting those green crosses every time they appear in your lineup regardless of who it is and not focusing and then do well in GA..... The game just doesnt work that way....

    Arena is a great example.... Should they shuffle the shards based on everyone's roster so I have a "fair" or "equal" shot at first place?.... Of course not, because that is not how that game mode works...

    Arena is absolutely fair in the way that you are grouped with players that started at the same time as you. CG obviously desires fairness, otherwise there wouldn't be any sort of matchmaking paradigm. There is. And we are debating the accuracy of it.

    Fair point, but I would suggest that using GP is fair.... GP is a measure of the resources you have invested into your roster..... .

    Is it though? We discussed this in length. I claim it's absolutely neither a fair measurement of the resources used or the efficacy of the outcome. If it was you would be able to explain how a 10K GP toon is almost complete junk and doesn't compare in anyway to a 20K one. The cost of the resources sinked in a 20K toon(G12) is approx. 6x the amount sinked in a 10K one (G8). That's one of the disrapencies.

    Fair again, but that being said, it a comes down to resource management again, and that's where the player's region comes into play.....

    I think of it like a street race..... Let's say you and I each have $100k to invest in a racecar, except we only get about $16k every two weeks... I save for 12 weeks and go out and buy a Corvette Z06,. You, on the other hand, go out and buy 6 Chevy Cruzes, one every two weeks.... Then we race and I smoke your entire fleet in the race because my car is way more powerful than any of your 6 cars.....

    The crux of the argument comes from two sides.....

    Side one (wants "better matchmaking" and feels GA is unfair because they don't have a chance racing their six Cruzes against a Corvette) feels they shouldnt have to face against Corvettes because they are too fast for them to beat...

    Side two (likes things as they are) wants to be rewarded for their patience and careful use of the money they were provided. They don't feel they should have to face only other Corvettes because the Cruze gang made poor choices....

    If there were different prize levels based on roster, then I would be fine with side one's perspective, but that isn't the case....

    That's not how it works. We both bought a Z06. I just used spare parts to build a golf cart. Now I'm being told that my golf cart qualifies me for an advanced race.

    No, no you didn't..... What you built is a bunch of dead weight you never use that your Z06 has to tow around that cost you a bunch of resources you could have used towards another Z06.....

    Its adorable that you think G12 is apparently 2 pieces of G6 added together.

    I don't think that at all.....never said it either so I'm not sure where you get that from....
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Post the screen shots. Otherwise my **** claim stands.

    Result of Round:

    4q2sipf84xnz.png

    Result of GA. From avatars and titles you see my 3 total wins and my opponent's 2 wins.

    6sq37w9ukkd0.png

    My front zone defense. All three zones had similar defensive teams (I have screenshots):

    ahd16mas6ws7.png

    I also have screenshots to document the following:

    My total character GP : 1.489 million
    My ships GP : 1.158 million
    My number of g12 characters : 14

    Opponent's character GP : 1.679 million
    Opponent's ship GP : 957k
    Opponent's number of g12 characters : 23



    Touché kind of.
    1.) The amount of times that will work you can count on 1 hand.

    That was the 4th time that strategy won me the battle. At least it's the 4th time I applied against an opponent with significantly weaker ships than I and significantly more g12 characters.
    I see your defense was wiped in 1 shot each. Same as if you hadnt set a defense except for that fleet.

    My opponent probably also got bonus points for unuseds slots. Still, setting defense also scores points. It's required to win.
    Sooo good job, but that negates nothing as far as fluff. And for those of us who built for TB prior to TW are being punished for coached game play (at the time)

    Well, fluff had the exact same type of effect on match-making in TW as it does now in GA. It's not a new phenomenon.
    Further you won because of your ships not with your weakntoon defense placement. So you were corrdct saying you won. Butnitnwasnt BECAUSE you placed weak toons it just was while you posted weak toons and a strong fleet.

    I won because I saved all (ALL) my strong and mediocre characters for offense to make sure, that I would clear all zones - no matter how many attempts it would have taken, and no matter which counter was required. That's kind of the same as winning because I set a weak defense.

    So superior ships beat him not your lack of defense. Already established that. Its not the same thing we were talking abkut with my pose.

    I said I need an orange you said i have half an apple. And thats the same.

    TW is the same in that fluff counts. Butnita a TEAM. And we have a team that joined at different times in the game. And so does 90% of our oponenets. So half of us are TB fluff amd half are TW focus. And we face off against teams that are half TB fluff and Half TW focus... Making fair matches.

    GA its one or the other.
    If you joined prior to TW youre either about even in matchup, or you're blown away.
  • Why is this post not locked yet??? If you have the same gp as another person its the exact same line up... if you chose to gear up youe characters instead of farm every other character that’s your choice . I chose to gear up my toons and mod them to suit. I win every time, surely players like me should be rewarded for spending the time to win? Like any game you don’t play to lose? You wouldn’t go into a casino and play with someo one with £1 million on the table if you can only play with £100...

    Trash arguments. Most of you are trying to penalise players like me who have worked on my roster properly. I don’t want to face players double my gp. I do that in the arena.... if i did i’d want tripple the reward for double the fall, back to the casino, the table wouldn’t let me face the person with £1million because i only have £100.

    It’s straight forward answer if you don’t like the GA, don’t play it, if you don’t like losing then (SHOCK) don’t play it. It’s a fun installment to the game and most of you are crying about it. ITS FAIR END OF.

    I’ll keep posting this until you stop arguing with Bubba.

    When did you start playing the game?

    And those of us who dont like it ARENT playing. But its not gonna stop us from clicking join for free rewards. And thats what this threads supporters of the bull **** matchup are **** about.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.

    Squads size is irrelevant. The only relevant things are:

    1. That you believe, that your defensive fleet will hold.
    2. That you are at a significant disadvantage in characters (otherwise you would probably win using a more conventional strategy as well)
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
    Every team has a counter. No team is unbeatable. What are you on about?

    But yes, since (when you apply this strategy) you are at a disadvantage in characters, you really need to save all your strong characters for offense. All. Each and every one.

    You assume eveyone has same mod speed huh.

    How about your best team are all dead before they can taking a turn before a +120 speed revan.

    In general every team has a counter, like I stated. No team is unbeatable. But yes, not every roster contains every counter to every team. You're absoloutely right. However, I never claimed it did.

    I'm not sure what your point with this discussion is. It appears pointless to me. I believe, I answered your original question to me (how weak characters can help you win in GA) already in my first response to you.

    Weak char is not helping if the opposite defending meta team can stop your entire roster.
  • Most people just don’t know how to play well and like to blame fluffs and ship GP for losing. It’s just sad. So far I never faced someone with now ship GP than me and I am always at an advantage.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    edited February 28
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    So again:

    Weak characters can help you win. Why shouldn't their GP be included in the calculation/algorithm?

    How?
    G10 jawas cant even beat G8 phoenix.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Well, it's a valid strategy, and it can win the game for you:

    If you believe, that your defensive fleet will survive and you are at a big disadvantage in characters, then put up a Chewie defense (weak defense) and save all your strong and mediocre characters for offense. All,of them. It works. It gave my alt the third victory in the most recent GA. I took screenshots, since I ended up discussing the strategy in another recent thread. So....call whatever you want. It just shows, that you're missing one tool in your toolbox for GA.

    The defence squads size arent bigger enough to use the strategy.

    Squads size is irrelevant. The only relevant things are:

    1. That you believe, that your defensive fleet will hold.
    2. That you are at a significant disadvantage in characters (otherwise you would probably win using a more conventional strategy as well)
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    They just drop whatever meta squad in the front area then done, no way to beat those.
    Every team has a counter. No team is unbeatable. What are you on about?

    But yes, since (when you apply this strategy) you are at a disadvantage in characters, you really need to save all your strong characters for offense. All. Each and every one.

    You assume eveyone has same mod speed huh.

    How about your best team are all dead before they can taking a turn before a +120 speed revan.

    In general every team has a counter, like I stated. No team is unbeatable. But yes, not every roster contains every counter to every team. You're absoloutely right. However, I never claimed it did.

    I'm not sure what your point with this discussion is. It appears pointless to me. I believe, I answered your original question to me (how weak characters can help you win in GA) already in my first response to you.

    Weak char is not helping if the opposite defending meta team can stop your entire roster.

    If your opponent has a defensive team for which you have no counter at all, you're in trouble no matter what strategy you use. Everybody knows this, so what's your point? Why discuss such trivialities?

    Edit:
    Still it doesn't change the fact, that putting weak characters on defense helped me win. The answer to your 'how?' is in my previous responses to you.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Further you won because of your ships not with your weakntoon defense placement. So you were corrdct saying you won. Butnitnwasnt BECAUSE you placed weak toons it just was while you posted weak toons and a strong fleet.

    I won because I saved all (ALL) my strong and mediocre characters for offense to make sure, that I would clear all zones - no matter how many attempts it would have taken, and no matter which counter was required. That's kind of the same as winning because I set a weak defense.

    So superior ships beat him not your lack of defense.

    My superior ships, yes, and the fact that I saved all strong and mediocre characters for offense to make sure, that I would clear all my opponent's zones. My opponent had significantly stronger characters than I as already stated several times. If I had put some strong or mediocre characters on defense I would have risked failing to clear his board and possibly lose.
    So yes, my weak characters on defense helped me win. They didn't take a single point from my opponent, no, but still they helped me win.

    Feel free to disagree. Feel free to discuss. I don't intend to waste time on that discussion any more.
  • Scuttlebutt
    316 posts Member
    edited February 28

    A
  • Waqui wrote: »
    I don't intend to waste time on that discussion any more.

    Lol yea right. Is that why you post your strategy on every thread about matchmaking in GA? To not waste time discussing it?

    Give it a rest.... He is right and you are wrong... If he hadn't placed any defence he would have lost, so placing those week toons got him the points he needed to make the victory possible....
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    I don't intend to waste time on that discussion any more.

    Lol yea right. Is that why you post your strategy on every thread about matchmaking in GA? To not waste time discussing it?

    Don't start your silly game again.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    I don't intend to waste time on that discussion any more.

    Lol yea right. Is that why you post your strategy on every thread about matchmaking in GA? To not waste time discussing it?

    Give it a rest.... He is right and you are wrong... If he hadn't placed any defence he would have lost, so placing those week toons got him the points he needed to make the victory possible....

    I was annoyed at something else (and him too but whatever) when I posted. I tried deleting my post but not before someone read it.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    I don't intend to waste time on that discussion any more.

    Lol yea right. Is that why you post your strategy on every thread about matchmaking in GA? To not waste time discussing it?

    Give it a rest.... He is right and you are wrong... If he hadn't placed any defence he would have lost, so placing those week toons got him the points he needed to make the victory possible....

    I was annoyed at something else (and him too but whatever) when I posted. I tried deleting my post but not before someone read it.

    Feel free to discuss and comment, but please stop your personal attacks.
  • I actually don’t think your strategy applies to any of these discussions. You said you have HMF and roughly 2.6 million GP. I’m guessing no fluff since it’s an alt account when others needed fluff (for instance I have g8 resistance pilot because when CLS was released zfinn was my only option to beat him) at one point in the game.

    How many of your opponents have HMF? Currently, HMF is similar to a Revan team before C3PO was released. There’s not many counters, so it’s easy to dominate defense when you have HMF and your opponent doesn’t. It’s not like you’re researching the opponent’s ships speeds to predetermine attack orders.

    The requirements for HMF are BH ships, so you basically have an offensive fleet there too. Assuming you’ve maxed out rebel ships and BH ships plus thrawn and ackbar, you would be at 700k to 800k ship power. Maybe a few more dark side ships to get the zeta challenge would bring you to 1 million GP. The rest of your ship GP is just unlocking ships.

    Since you’re an alt account, I’m also guessing you’re in a HSTR raiding guild when most people at that GP are not or are just getting into 1. So you would have Traya which means that you can more easily clear the squads to use your strategy.

    So your strategy is basically set HMF on defense if your opponent doesn’t have it and use for offense if he does?

    If you’re able to easily block off a territory based on a ship/fleet with few counters (right now) that doesn’t mean that the fluff and ship GP mismatch people don’t have valid arguments.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    edited February 28
    Scroll back, @scuttlebutt.

    It's all simply reasoning to argue wether weak characters should count towards the GP used for matchmaking or not. When people argue, that it shouldn't because weak characters are useless, their reasoning is wrong. I disagree and give my reasons. Of course it belongs in this discussion.

    Yes, then it lead to comments from persons who didn't believe my strategy works (calling it ****), or people who didn't understand the strategy, and yes, that was unnecessary. However, when such comments appear, I of course defend my point of view (that weak characters are usefull in certain scenarios, and hence should count towards the GP).

    This is where it started:
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kaziglubey wrote: »
    ^^^ this.

    Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

    Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

    So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

    The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

    GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking.

    Sorry bud but ill call **** on the winning. Unless your opponent didnt attack. Because a defense of your "fluff" would get your oponent a perfect score.

    Now to answer your question. Ive answered the why 2 posts ago, and continued the answer in the post you quoted.

  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    So your strategy is basically set HMF on defense if your opponent doesn’t have it and use for offense if he does?

    You're missing one important element:

    A significant disadvantage in characters.

    Don't leave signifacant details like this out. Stop misinterpreting my comments.

    Over and out.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    Scroll back, @scuttlebutt.

    It's all simply reasoning to argue wether weak characters should count towards the GP used for matchmaking or not. When people argue, that it shouldn't because weak characters are useless, their reasoning is wrong. I disagree and give my reasons. Of course it belongs in this discussion.

    Yes, then it lead to comments from persons who didn't believe my strategy works (calling it ****), or people who didn't understand the strategy, and yes, that was unnecessary. However, when such comments appear, I of course defend my point of view (that weak characters are usefull in certain scenarios, and hence should count towards the GP).

    This is where it started:
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kaziglubey wrote: »
    ^^^ this.

    Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

    Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?

    So when we were coached to inflate GP for TB amd then along comes TW.. And later GA.. The response by someone who started after tb and TW BOTH existed poor management?

    The complication isnt. In fact the code is already there see TW. No toons can be used under 6000 GP... A simple "if then > 10000" is all it would take to remove the GP of "fluff" from counting in matchups.

    GA infnitely favors accounts that came aboard after the existence of TW. And I'm ok with losing. Rewards are inintile in difference (just like tw win or loss). But (not directed specifically at you) anyone to say its fair or even close is ridiculously wrong.

    I have used weak toons a few times to my advantage in GA. I've set teams of my weakest toons, saved all my strong ones for offense and won. Why shouldn't weak toons also count towards the total GP used for matchmaking.

    Sorry bud but ill call **** on the winning. Unless your opponent didnt attack. Because a defense of your "fluff" would get your oponent a perfect score.

    Now to answer your question. Ive answered the why 2 posts ago, and continued the answer in the post you quoted.

    Youre argued a fair fight. I'm not supposed to assume you believe bringing a gun to a knife fight is fair.

    And catching you with your primed ALT acct proves my point all the more.

    Your relevance is concluded.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    So your strategy is basically set HMF on defense if your opponent doesn’t have it and use for offense if he does?

    You're missing one important element:

    A significant disadvantage in characters.

    Don't leave signifacant details like this out. Stop misinterpreting my comments.

    Over and out.

    If you cleared the board, how was it a disadvantage?

    Is what I said what you use as a strategy for fleets?
  • Why is this post not locked yet??? If you have the same gp as another person its the exact same line up... if you chose to gear up youe characters instead of farm every other character that’s your choice . I chose to gear up my toons and mod them to suit. I win every time, surely players like me should be rewarded for spending the time to win? Like any game you don’t play to lose? You wouldn’t go into a casino and play with someo one with £1 million on the table if you can only play with £100...

    Trash arguments. Most of you are trying to penalise players like me who have worked on my roster properly. I don’t want to face players double my gp. I do that in the arena.... if i did i’d want tripple the reward for double the fall, back to the casino, the table wouldn’t let me face the person with £1million because i only have £100.

    It’s straight forward answer if you don’t like the GA, don’t play it, if you don’t like losing then (SHOCK) don’t play it. It’s a fun installment to the game and most of you are crying about it. ITS FAIR END OF.

    I’ll keep posting this until you stop arguing with Bubba.

    When did you start playing the game?

    And those of us who dont like it ARENT playing. But its not gonna stop us from clicking join for free rewards. And thats what this threads supporters of the bull **** matchup are **** about.

    About 3-4 years ago.

    You lost me after that.

    You are arguing for an alt then.
  • Waqui
    5014 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    So your strategy is basically set HMF on defense if your opponent doesn’t have it and use for offense if he does?

    You're missing one important element:

    A significant disadvantage in characters.

    Don't leave signifacant details like this out. Stop misinterpreting my comments.

    Over and out.

    If you cleared the board, how was it a disadvantage?

    Is what I said what you use as a strategy for fleets?
    Waqui wrote: »
    Over and out.
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