So when do we get the refund for all the resistance guys?
Zeta, money, materials, some joker shards instead of these.. the whole stuff.
By the way, as an IT project manager, I really get headaches from your approach.
If my customer has a problem with his contract system and I fix the storage managment... they would kick my company out of contract.
His basic is improved with damage that scales up with each hit.
His 1st Special is practically rewritten and improved with better buffs, better healing, cleansing of debuffs, and an added unique bonus exclusive to Finn.
His 2nd Special is improved with better chances to expose and given a chance to stun. Plus, it's improved for going up against Raid Bosses.
His Leadership is given better bonuses, added bonuses that weren't there before, PLUS the addition of turn meter removal that wasn't there before ...
And yet ... all of this is considered garbage and worthless because they reduced his turn meter gain??
Sounds like to me that he got a well needed rework.
As it stands before this upcoming patch, his entire kit is garbage. Name five people who actually LIKES using his basic attack outside of a desperate need to do so because of cool down time! Also, who can make an actually convincing argument that his "Hold the Line" special is better now than what it will be? What about his "Takedown" ability? Are you actually going to hold to the opinion that the improvements to it are worse than what it currently is?
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
I find it amusing that this glitch is getting fixed and people are complaining because they can't use their illegal "I win!" tactic anymore. In fact, I'm leveling and gearing up my Finn and Resistance toons now in preparation for this patch. I'm excited by it.
OH ... and FYI ... I've never used this glitch. Primarily because I don't have the characters. Even if I did, I wouldn't have used it because I frown upon exploits and cheating.
His basic is improved with damage that scales up with each hit.
His 1st Special is practically rewritten and improved with better buffs, better healing, cleansing of debuffs, and an added unique bonus exclusive to Finn.
His 2nd Special is improved with better chances to expose and given a chance to stun. Plus, it's improved for going up against Raid Bosses.
His Leadership is given better bonuses, added bonuses that weren't there before, PLUS the addition of turn meter removal that wasn't there before ...
And yet ... all of this is considered garbage and worthless because they reduced his turn meter gain??
Sounds like to me that he got a well needed rework.
As it stands before this upcoming patch, his entire kit is garbage. Name five people who actually LIKES using his basic attack outside of a desperate need to do so because of cool down time! Also, who can make an actually convincing argument that his "Hold the Line" special is better now than what it will be? What about his "Takedown" ability? Are you actually going to hold to the opinion that the improvements to it are worse than what it currently is?
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
I find it amusing that this glitch is getting fixed and people are complaining because they can't use their illegal "I win!" tactic anymore. In fact, I'm leveling and gearing up my Finn and Resistance toons now in preparation for this patch. I'm excited by it.
OH ... and FYI ... I've never used this glitch. Primarily because I don't have the characters. Even if I did, I wouldn't have used it because I frown upon exploits and cheating.
I will be patient with this new leadership and see. Although I believe they are reworking Finn overall just to sugar coat the fact that his leadership is not going to function like it used to in all areas of the game, and ultimately be less effective for why gave him a zeta in the first place.
I placed a zeta on his lead to a have a consistent team to beat the boring 6 wave Territory Battles and the HAAT raid. His zeta made finally gave the ability to auto solo p2,3,and 4 of HAAT with C-3PO. I worked on Ewoks long in anticipation for C-3PO, and felt rewarded for being able to solo HAAT without using my AA, CLS, Hoda, BB-8, Thrawn manual squad(which takes too long).
I appreciate them trying to make him a stronger character, but if his lead doesn’t help with HAAT solo without the manual grind or his lead gets curb stomped by the stupid TB Empire mechanics then I will be rather disappointed.
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
Lol, I don't know what games you've played but this is in now way a glitch or a cheat. It's a game mechanic that goes to show they didn't test out C3PO before he was released. Any other game if they put this out here and players found this kind of loop to use then they would be like "Well congrats, we didn't think about this so go ahead and enjoy it." What CG is doing is punishing players for their oversight all so they can protect their stupidly hard and ridiculous raid. A raid that has been out for over a year now and you'd think they'd give us this little thing or they would take the raid back to the drawing table. They've already nerfed so many characters because people found ways to use them together so they could actually make progress in this raid and make it easier. CG sees it as a threat to their precious raid so they nerf the characters to all mess and say that "this wasn't working how it was intended." It's **** and they know it.
you think an infinite loop of phase 3 is cheating? What about chexmix and greedomix. you have to start over 100 times to get the right result. Enervating, gaming experience = 0. We were happy to have this loop for the most horrible phase.
100% agree with this.
If CG didn’t create such infuriatingly bad, RNG based phases, then perhaps people wouldn’t be looking for ways to just auto it and would actually enjoy playing it.
His basic is improved with damage that scales up with each hit.
His 1st Special is practically rewritten and improved with better buffs, better healing, cleansing of debuffs, and an added unique bonus exclusive to Finn.
His 2nd Special is improved with better chances to expose and given a chance to stun. Plus, it's improved for going up against Raid Bosses.
His Leadership is given better bonuses, added bonuses that weren't there before, PLUS the addition of turn meter removal that wasn't there before ...
And yet ... all of this is considered garbage and worthless because they reduced his turn meter gain??
Sounds like to me that he got a well needed rework.
As it stands before this upcoming patch, his entire kit is garbage. Name five people who actually LIKES using his basic attack outside of a desperate need to do so because of cool down time! Also, who can make an actually convincing argument that his "Hold the Line" special is better now than what it will be? What about his "Takedown" ability? Are you actually going to hold to the opinion that the improvements to it are worse than what it currently is?
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
I find it amusing that this glitch is getting fixed and people are complaining because they can't use their illegal "I win!" tactic anymore. In fact, I'm leveling and gearing up my Finn and Resistance toons now in preparation for this patch. I'm excited by it.
OH ... and FYI ... I've never used this glitch. Primarily because I don't have the characters. Even if I did, I wouldn't have used it because I frown upon exploits and cheating.
Do you play this game or just work for CG as one of their internal testers?
Just chiming in to say this is a terrible idea to not refund the zeta. CG allowed a huge flaw to get through 'testing' and so fundamentally make a huge change to a zeta ability when many less drastic options were available. Great that Finn individually is a better character now, but his performance overall is waaaay different. @CG_Carrie please reconsider this.
Whuuuut!?!? So if I pay for one thing, then you come and take it back, hand me what you think is equivalent.... Heavens to mergitroid!
Where in the world is a potato the same as a tomato? First you take away 2 ships from my 9 ship fleet. That I farmed for 2 years and only had for three weeks. Then daka, which I'm so glad I missed. Now you take away the ability I chose to upgrade because it's what I wanted not what you think I'll accept. You want a#4 with a Sonic blast. I bring you a dollar burger and a stale Jr fry..... You telling me that is satisfactory? You bought a Silverado 2500 hd, but they got recalled and now we only give out el Camino's. Yeah along with 38000 dollars. Your at a restaurant and order lobster and steak... You get potted meat and ****, but are billed for lobster and steak???? Do you accept this foolishness, or get a refund?
Without saying the rework is bad or good, I will only say this: when toons have been changed this fundamentally, CG has traditionally offered the zeta back. Barriss and Old Daka had loops changed and this altered how the zeta worked.
However, the aforementioned toons did not have a significant kit change when the zeta was refunded, Finn's kit is radically different now. Does the zeta make it better or worse? That is the real question.
"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
So the whole reason I built a Resistance team, the first faction team I spent months putting together when I started the game, my first zeta, has now been dismantled. My Resistance team no longer works like it should, all because of some other toon you screwed up. And rather than edit 3PO while he's still new, and is the one causing the issues here, you **** over a faction leader that has been a mainstay for years. What's worse is you flat out say in the developer notes that 'he is better' (as though your corporation's opinion matters, Philip Morris told us smoking was healthy for decades), and therefore no refund, before even allowing for feedback from your customer base to determine if your game-changing move should warrant further action. You will never get another penny out of me, not a one. I have gone from a spender to F2P because of **** like this. You think you have the right to change the product I bought after I claimed ownership of it, and then hide from the consequences behind bogus claims of 'well, we made him better, so screw off if you want your money back.' I no longer have what I bought, you stole it right out of my arms and then handed it back dismantled with a smile on your face. So eat a fat one, I sincerely hope you lose a lot of revenue over this move.
His basic is improved with damage that scales up with each hit.
His 1st Special is practically rewritten and improved with better buffs, better healing, cleansing of debuffs, and an added unique bonus exclusive to Finn.
His 2nd Special is improved with better chances to expose and given a chance to stun. Plus, it's improved for going up against Raid Bosses.
His Leadership is given better bonuses, added bonuses that weren't there before, PLUS the addition of turn meter removal that wasn't there before ...
And yet ... all of this is considered garbage and worthless because they reduced his turn meter gain??
Sounds like to me that he got a well needed rework.
As it stands before this upcoming patch, his entire kit is garbage. Name five people who actually LIKES using his basic attack outside of a desperate need to do so because of cool down time! Also, who can make an actually convincing argument that his "Hold the Line" special is better now than what it will be? What about his "Takedown" ability? Are you actually going to hold to the opinion that the improvements to it are worse than what it currently is?
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
I find it amusing that this glitch is getting fixed and people are complaining because they can't use their illegal "I win!" tactic anymore. In fact, I'm leveling and gearing up my Finn and Resistance toons now in preparation for this patch. I'm excited by it.
OH ... and FYI ... I've never used this glitch. Primarily because I don't have the characters. Even if I did, I wouldn't have used it because I frown upon exploits and cheating.
I like how by your logic Finn used be an "I win" button, and yet they made him better, and now he isn't.
Resistance allies have +60% Defense, Offense, and Potency, and other allies have half that amount. Each time they damage an Exposed enemy, all Resistance allies gain 3% Turn Meter and the target enemy loses 5% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally. Damaging an Exposed enemy also reduces Resistance allies' cooldowns by 1.
+
With +60% potency on toons modded for pot, resistance can get pretty high on the resistance check. Probably in most cases only limited by the minimum 15% resistance check.
The target enemy will most likely lose 25% tm (5 resistance toons x 5%), and each Resistance toon will gain 15% tm (5 allies x 3%). That's a max of 40% tm differential on the target. This is better than the 35% previously. CG offset this gain by reducing the 35% tm differential on non-targeted toons to 15% (5 allies x 3%) from 35%. Which is a pretty significant drop off. But they also added a cd reduction mechanic. Potentially Scav Rey could be doing her specials every turn. Rex showed the tm gain doesn't have to be as big as 35% to be effective. Ten up might be a problem though at the end of the day. But that was a problem before in trying to land an expose in the 1st place.
I think zFinn teams can actually stilll be good, even after the zeta change, in Arena and TW/GA.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
Without saying the rework is bad or good, I will only say this: when toons have been changed this fundamentally, CG has traditionally offered the zeta back. Barriss and Old Daka had loops changed and this altered how the zeta worked.
However, the aforementioned toons did not have a significant kit change when the zeta was refunded, Finn's kit is radically different now. Does the zeta make it better or worse? That is the real question.
but it's more stupid that we probably won't get a resource refund for something we didn't sign up for.
This. Most of us are very particular about which abilities get the precious zetas, and although the new kit looks very nice, that lead skill is just not good enough now for me to justify a zeta on..
Hopefully when you come back Monday you'll respond to all of there's concerns quickly and come up with the right solution that should of been done before the weekend.
My opinion the right solution is to leave Finn alone or refund zeta!!!!!!!
First off, I'm not a tester. I have two accounts, actually. Both at level 85, and I've worked hard on both.
Second off, Yes, I've been gaming for several years now across several different games, genres, and platforms. I've seen infinite loops like this before, and have heard all the same arguments by other gamers about how it's just a mechanic of the game that people happen to be using. Well, it's still an exploit. Each game I've played has had their own ways of dealing with such things. One example was in SWG. There were certain areas where you go and force a glitch that would start mobs to rapidly respawn over and over, quicker than intended. This was an infinite loop that was allowing players to rapidly grind experience and level their characters faster. Their solution was to send in CS Reps to patrol these areas and disrupt the spawn and stop the glitch. In the case of this infinite loop, the devs here chose to give Finn a rework.
I like the changes. Finn is now a much more viable resistance character. Should significantly improve my RJT squad both in arena and raids. I do think a Zeta refund or even just a free zeta as a make good wouldn't be a bad thing.
It’s very simple. Refunding the Zeta costs them nothing. There’s no reason not to do it...
...unless they don’t want to set a precedent that they’ll refund any Zeta that gets reworked. But they already set that precedent with Daka...
...or unless they’re concerned that having an extra Zeta to redistribute will hurt profits. But if anything, it may help: It might make players more likely to spend money to level up a new character that they have an extra Zeta to pin on it...
...or unless the Zeta is still good and performs equally as good or better than it did before C3PO. But it’s difficult to accept this without first-hand experience. Many people run many different squads with many different characters with all sorts of different types of mods. That Finn’s Zeta works the same or better in so many different settings seems implausible.
...or unless it’s because they already said that they’re not going to do it.
But honestly, refunding the Zeta doesn’t compromise the integrity of the game at all. And it will let the player base know that they are being listened to.
Is the 3% turn meter gain for Resistance allies flat, or is that also per each Resistance ally?
Does the turn meter removal rely on the potency of the character who dealt damage through expose?
Also, when can we expect these changes to be implemented? Will he remain unchanged for the remainder of this Grand Arena and Territory War?
3% per each Resistance ally. Turn meter removal is reliant on the potency of the character who dealt damage through expose. Changes should be soon - it's always tough for us to guarantee a date, but my hope is within the next two weeks.
Is there any possibility of rethinking the reliance on potency of the turn meter reduction? Landing the expose is already reliant on potency under Finn lead (since only JTR lead has the unresistable expose). By making the turn meter reduction reliant on potency as well, you are double-dipping into the 15% base resist chance and the potency vs tenacity arms race that you've set up. Please reconsider.
Solo HAAT (2,3,4 on full auto)
Solo P3 HSTR (mostly on auto)
Beat Traya on offense with none resistance specific team (most people don't even own 10 resistance characters, and most of the faction is not worth farming)
Beat Revan on offense (same team as Traya)
Beat FO on offense
And this is precisely the reason why it is good that they changed him.
Replies
Zeta, money, materials, some joker shards instead of these.. the whole stuff.
By the way, as an IT project manager, I really get headaches from your approach.
If my customer has a problem with his contract system and I fix the storage managment... they would kick my company out of contract.
If C3P0 is the problem fix that character.
His basic is improved with damage that scales up with each hit.
His 1st Special is practically rewritten and improved with better buffs, better healing, cleansing of debuffs, and an added unique bonus exclusive to Finn.
His 2nd Special is improved with better chances to expose and given a chance to stun. Plus, it's improved for going up against Raid Bosses.
His Leadership is given better bonuses, added bonuses that weren't there before, PLUS the addition of turn meter removal that wasn't there before ...
And yet ... all of this is considered garbage and worthless because they reduced his turn meter gain??
Sounds like to me that he got a well needed rework.
As it stands before this upcoming patch, his entire kit is garbage. Name five people who actually LIKES using his basic attack outside of a desperate need to do so because of cool down time! Also, who can make an actually convincing argument that his "Hold the Line" special is better now than what it will be? What about his "Takedown" ability? Are you actually going to hold to the opinion that the improvements to it are worse than what it currently is?
The Devs said back in December that this loop wasn't intended and they planned to fix it. That means that this infinite loop is a glitch ... an exploit ... in simpler terms ... it's a cheat!
I find it amusing that this glitch is getting fixed and people are complaining because they can't use their illegal "I win!" tactic anymore. In fact, I'm leveling and gearing up my Finn and Resistance toons now in preparation for this patch. I'm excited by it.
OH ... and FYI ... I've never used this glitch. Primarily because I don't have the characters. Even if I did, I wouldn't have used it because I frown upon exploits and cheating.
Lol...........
I placed a zeta on his lead to a have a consistent team to beat the boring 6 wave Territory Battles and the HAAT raid. His zeta made finally gave the ability to auto solo p2,3,and 4 of HAAT with C-3PO. I worked on Ewoks long in anticipation for C-3PO, and felt rewarded for being able to solo HAAT without using my AA, CLS, Hoda, BB-8, Thrawn manual squad(which takes too long).
I appreciate them trying to make him a stronger character, but if his lead doesn’t help with HAAT solo without the manual grind or his lead gets curb stomped by the stupid TB Empire mechanics then I will be rather disappointed.
Lol, I don't know what games you've played but this is in now way a glitch or a cheat. It's a game mechanic that goes to show they didn't test out C3PO before he was released. Any other game if they put this out here and players found this kind of loop to use then they would be like "Well congrats, we didn't think about this so go ahead and enjoy it." What CG is doing is punishing players for their oversight all so they can protect their stupidly hard and ridiculous raid. A raid that has been out for over a year now and you'd think they'd give us this little thing or they would take the raid back to the drawing table. They've already nerfed so many characters because people found ways to use them together so they could actually make progress in this raid and make it easier. CG sees it as a threat to their precious raid so they nerf the characters to all mess and say that "this wasn't working how it was intended." It's **** and they know it.
One or two teams soloing an entire phase of the hardest raid in a single topple is no real reason to change something?
In the next 2 weeks.
True, it would need to be "Complain, Complain, you must learn to Complain!"
100% agree with this.
If CG didn’t create such infuriatingly bad, RNG based phases, then perhaps people wouldn’t be looking for ways to just auto it and would actually enjoy playing it.
But since it’s not enjoyable in the least...
Now now, that would be unethical..
@CG_Carrie please reconsider this.
[/quote]
<<DEV POST>>[/quote]
Whuuuut!?!? So if I pay for one thing, then you come and take it back, hand me what you think is equivalent.... Heavens to mergitroid!
Where in the world is a potato the same as a tomato? First you take away 2 ships from my 9 ship fleet. That I farmed for 2 years and only had for three weeks. Then daka, which I'm so glad I missed. Now you take away the ability I chose to upgrade because it's what I wanted not what you think I'll accept. You want a#4 with a Sonic blast. I bring you a dollar burger and a stale Jr fry..... You telling me that is satisfactory? You bought a Silverado 2500 hd, but they got recalled and now we only give out el Camino's. Yeah along with 38000 dollars. Your at a restaurant and order lobster and steak... You get potted meat and ****, but are billed for lobster and steak???? Do you accept this foolishness, or get a refund?
However, the aforementioned toons did not have a significant kit change when the zeta was refunded, Finn's kit is radically different now. Does the zeta make it better or worse? That is the real question.
I like how by your logic Finn used be an "I win" button, and yet they made him better, and now he isn't.
+
With +60% potency on toons modded for pot, resistance can get pretty high on the resistance check. Probably in most cases only limited by the minimum 15% resistance check.
The target enemy will most likely lose 25% tm (5 resistance toons x 5%), and each Resistance toon will gain 15% tm (5 allies x 3%). That's a max of 40% tm differential on the target. This is better than the 35% previously. CG offset this gain by reducing the 35% tm differential on non-targeted toons to 15% (5 allies x 3%) from 35%. Which is a pretty significant drop off. But they also added a cd reduction mechanic. Potentially Scav Rey could be doing her specials every turn. Rex showed the tm gain doesn't have to be as big as 35% to be effective. Ten up might be a problem though at the end of the day. But that was a problem before in trying to land an expose in the 1st place.
I think zFinn teams can actually stilll be good, even after the zeta change, in Arena and TW/GA.
This. Most of us are very particular about which abilities get the precious zetas, and although the new kit looks very nice, that lead skill is just not good enough now for me to justify a zeta on..
My opinion the right solution is to leave Finn alone or refund zeta!!!!!!!
Second off, Yes, I've been gaming for several years now across several different games, genres, and platforms. I've seen infinite loops like this before, and have heard all the same arguments by other gamers about how it's just a mechanic of the game that people happen to be using. Well, it's still an exploit. Each game I've played has had their own ways of dealing with such things. One example was in SWG. There were certain areas where you go and force a glitch that would start mobs to rapidly respawn over and over, quicker than intended. This was an infinite loop that was allowing players to rapidly grind experience and level their characters faster. Their solution was to send in CS Reps to patrol these areas and disrupt the spawn and stop the glitch. In the case of this infinite loop, the devs here chose to give Finn a rework.
...unless they don’t want to set a precedent that they’ll refund any Zeta that gets reworked. But they already set that precedent with Daka...
...or unless they’re concerned that having an extra Zeta to redistribute will hurt profits. But if anything, it may help: It might make players more likely to spend money to level up a new character that they have an extra Zeta to pin on it...
...or unless the Zeta is still good and performs equally as good or better than it did before C3PO. But it’s difficult to accept this without first-hand experience. Many people run many different squads with many different characters with all sorts of different types of mods. That Finn’s Zeta works the same or better in so many different settings seems implausible.
...or unless it’s because they already said that they’re not going to do it.
But honestly, refunding the Zeta doesn’t compromise the integrity of the game at all. And it will let the player base know that they are being listened to.
Is there any possibility of rethinking the reliance on potency of the turn meter reduction? Landing the expose is already reliant on potency under Finn lead (since only JTR lead has the unresistable expose). By making the turn meter reduction reliant on potency as well, you are double-dipping into the 15% base resist chance and the potency vs tenacity arms race that you've set up. Please reconsider.
And this is precisely the reason why it is good that they changed him.