I love how @CG_SBCrumb made a comment about the Finn rework in his update post (no megathread about it for some reason), but ignores the whole megathread that’s on fire about their refusal to refund the now useless Zeta.
Hey Crumb, maaaaaybe just maybe it would be best to comment on this instead of giving the community the finger by saying you’re still going to change ZFinn, without you or anyone showing up in this thread. Great business model 👍🏻.
Oh and thanks for adding ANOTHER character to ship nodes. Useless.
The resources poured into the old Finn (the new character named "Finn" is completely different) and the resistance faction as a whole
Let's not conflate them
First, the rework nerf of Finn's leadership. Many will rightly argue that this was what made Finn a valuable character in the first place. It had value in all game modes- Arena, G.A., TW, TB, PVE modes (raids, etc.).
There have been broadly two sets of solutions presented that the community will gladly accept and should fix CG's stated problem (infinite loop in STR)
Give Treya stacking tenacity (won't affect JTR, NS, etc. but might have an issue with CLS lead). It has the positive that we can avoid the rework nerf altogether
Give Finn's rework nerf effect only in the STR. This is just as certain characters (heroic- CLS, GMY, etc). and factions (NS, BH) have raid specific powers
This presumes that CG has been completely honest about its motivations for the rework nerf
Second, if CG is set on the rework nerf, we must consider the entire set of resources that have been poured into Finn and the resistance as a whole due to his leadership.
The zeta is only the most obvious and visible exemplar of this. Many of us who run him in arena or GA have G12 (+) ed him, have geared other characters as well. At least the Finn gear and zeta should be refunded. We can then choose if the rework nerf is so wonderful that we want to reinvest in this reworked nerfed Finn.
Come on CG, do the right thing by your player base and honour the promises you have made to us. Otherwise, what credibility will your future pronouncements have? @CG_Carrie@CG_SBCrumb@CG_TopHat
The resources poured into the old Finn (the new character named "Finn" is completely different) and the resistance faction as a whole
Let's not conflate them
First, the rework nerf of Finn's leadership. Many will rightly argue that this was what made Finn a valuable character in the first place. It had value in all game modes- Arena, G.A., TW, TB, PVE modes (raids, etc.).
There have been broadly two sets of solutions presented that the community will gladly accept and should fix CG's stated problem (infinite loop in STR)
Give Treya stacking tenacity (won't affect JTR, NS, etc. but might have an issue with CLS lead). It has the positive that we can avoid the rework nerf altogether
Give Finn's rework nerf effect only in the STR. This is just as certain characters (heroic- CLS, GMY, etc). and factions (NS, BH) have raid specific powers
This presumes that CG has been completely honest about its motivations for the rework nerf
Second, if CG is set on the rework nerf, we must consider the entire set of resources that have been poured into Finn and the resistance as a whole due to his leadership.
The zeta is only the most obvious and visible exemplar of this. Many of us who run him in arena or GA have G12 (+) ed him, have geared other characters as well. At least the Finn gear and zeta should be refunded. We can then choose if the rework nerf is so wonderful that we want to reinvest in this reworked nerfed Finn.
Come on CG, do the right thing by your player base and honour the promises you have made to us. Otherwise, what credibility will your future pronouncements have? @CG_Carrie@CG_SBCrumb@CG_TopHat
You had me until the gear refund. I'm 100% for the zeta refund, but Finn was good enough at G8. Never gonna get gear back for a toon.
You had me until the gear refund. I'm 100% for the zeta refund, but Finn was good enough at G8. Never gonna get gear back for a toon.
I'm perfectly fine with well meaning people who are directly affected having different acceptable solutions to the problem. In my case, gearing him to G12 was a lot more expensive than zeta-ing him so that's why I want the Gear back (I can use it on so many toons who are now better).
Don't let the Separatist news distract you from the fact that CG turned our Finn's into useless trash without telling us and no word for a zeta refund. I seriously don't have a use for that ability or the character any more, I'm never going to use him again so please give me the option to have that zeta removed and get my mats back...
]
The epic thing is if you check google play store for grossing games SWGOH isn't even in top 500. It used to however in top 20 a week ago.
Really? I just snapped this.
Its what happens when Devs do what CG is doing, fans only be ignored for so long. You can't just ignore your playerbase and think your game won't die. CG is relying on this being Star wars right now to exist.
They keep lie-ing to us. They keep pulling the rug from under us. They keep trying to increase prices for things without putting effort into it, they keep trying to enforce their own arena agenda onto people even though noone there knows how to play their own game (Apparently Warrior told me that someone who "knows the game more then anyone else" was the person behind the GG vid gameplay, the gameplay where we see Old ben instead of R2 on the Rebel team, or watch someone play NS terribly) So even their "Main tester" is really bad at the game.
For the past year they have done nothing for us. And its costing them.
May as well throw my own two cents into this thread to get lost and ignored.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
"We think this should resolve the Finn-Threepio interaction moving forward. As our internal testing has shown that Finn matches or exceeds where he was prior to C-3PO's launch..."
Not sure there is a conspiracy. Clearly team wanted to keep Finn utility to the level prior to 3po launch, without changing 3po, in HSR and arena's. As the game progresses, sometimes toons need to be updated, (or nerfed if you will) to keep the game alive. There's nothing more to it than that. All the conspiracy theories are fun, but unhelpful.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
May as well throw my own two cents into this thread to get lost and ignored.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
You put the Resistance tag on C3PO and failed to test him with a widely used Resistance leader. I don't have C3PO, but I have zFinn. Why are we being further punished? This is a bait and switch scenario.
By the way, congratulations on screwing up the star wars gaming franchise. That takes real talent. Seems like a slam dunk for success. This little episode is a fine illustration of your ineptitude.
Isn’t it ironic that the ability they are changing is called Balanced Tactics and yet the solution, while well thought out and may be decent in execution, is not balanced in terms of roster management?
As mentioned by many, we understand the closing of the loop and preserving game balance but:
Original Finn = 2 separate viable Resistance Teams at existing gear levels
Reworked Finn = 1 viable Resistance team and another only if we invest gear in characters we hadn’t previously geared up. Let’s be frank, a G9 secondary resistance squad is not going to put a dent in a high level GK team in a 5 min battle the way his damage ramps up.
Taking an entire team off the board is not a measured and “Balanced” response to a game breaking loop unless you include the make good of refunding the zeta or as Edison mentioned, issue 20 zeta mats to everyone.
May as well throw my own two cents into this thread to get lost and ignored.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
everyone posting in this thread should quote this at least once...it's a great read
So to summarize what has happened since the scourge of Revan in terms of arena...
Enfys Nest was magically not working as intended when Revan rolled out since she was countering Jedi and needed to be nerfed.
The same week that Grievous rolled out it was announced that zFinn ALSO needs to be nerfed instead of fixing your garbage raid because zFinn shouldnt perform well in your trash raid or compete with Revan because that's just not fair to Revan. Players spent 2 months begging you to fix the loop without touching Finn, and now he is worse than before c3po's arrival.
On the same day that Grievous/Magna/Droideka rolls out, Revan *magically* needed to be fixed to start marking chars at random which now drastically increases the RNG required to run Traya/Bastilla and even fixing Revan's "sowing his oats bug" will not rectify the fact that players invested resources in keeping Traya alive after marked was targeting her 100% of the time.
And now, despite the numerous amounts of bugs with your *new meta* that the previous two teams got nerfed for, Grievous will still not serve as a reliable counter against Revan and they are garbage on defense.
Since the majority of the playerbase are now hesitant to invest in droids after seeing how they work on real accounts, can you just a. Leave zFinn alone and fix your raid, and b. put Revan back to the way he was so that Revan's meta pie slice doesn't shoot up to 95% by obsoleting both of those teams, and wrecking havoc in our TW's and GA's since the only reliable counter to Revan will still be Revan?
Whelp...it looks like CG is engaging in the “wait out the fire” strategy again, banking on us to eventually lose motivation and forget this...doubt we’ll hear anything back. Did the same thing with Acolyte nerf that “wouldn’t affect other areas of the game”...
I’m fine with the rework, but the zeta should definitely be refunded. We should each be given the opportunity to evaluate the change and determine how to proceed. Personally, this is not the zeta I decided to purchase, and it’s not a zeta I ever would have purchased.
I just want to be able to auto solo the HAAT with the Finn / BB8 / 3PO / Han / CLS team that can currently do it. They said they didn't have a problem with that happening but were going to fix the loop in Sith. Do what you said you were going to do, don't nerf the thing you said was fine then sell us some **** about making Finn better.
If I buy something for one intended purpose, then it's changed so that intended purpose doesn't work, you didn't make anything better.
May as well throw my own two cents into this thread to get lost and ignored.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
May as well throw my own two cents into this thread to get lost and ignored.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
@CG POST THIS ABOVE THE MENS URINALS AND THE BREAKROOM SO YOU HAVE TO READ IT
I don't get it really. It's not like they have to give back money, right? Just the actual mats, no?
They made a MAJOR change not only to a Zeta, and a toon, but to how a whole team will gain (and in this case, NOT gain as much) turn meter. It is not even close to the same Zeta people put on him.
So WHY not just refund the Zeta mats, and then people can decide whether or not to put it back on him? They lose NO money here, and gain nothing except hatred by not refunding it.
Sure, some might put the Zeta elsewhere, and, that is should be their right. Will that cause some lost sales? Come on really?
Let me clear too, I don't even have the Zeta, and I am peed off
Probably when zFinn Zeta rage phases out because of the intentional smokescreen SNAFU that CG did with "General Failures" GREAT REWORK CG! EPIC! THANKS A LOT FOR A MEDIOCRE B TEAM FOR GA/TW!!! YAAY!!! 😏
Denial: No way you can do this. You can't mean to completely nerf Finn just to fix one Phase of one raid!
Anger:We invested massive amounts into this leader, toon, team.... You no good ..... You promised us that you were fine with the mechanic except in P3. You...
Bargaining: Come on guys, we had 2 real resistance leaders in TW/TB/GA. Now you removed one and we only have JTR. That's a nerf. Why don't you just insert code that checks if he's in the STR and prevent exposes there?! Or at least give us our resources back (zeta, gear).
Depression- that's where we are now.
The next stage is accepting that you're just a bunch of dishonorable, greedy, thieves, that we can't trust you now or in the future, and quitting SWGOH.
Replies
Hey Crumb, maaaaaybe just maybe it would be best to comment on this instead of giving the community the finger by saying you’re still going to change ZFinn, without you or anyone showing up in this thread. Great business model 👍🏻.
Oh and thanks for adding ANOTHER character to ship nodes. Useless.
- The rework nerf of Finn's leadership
- The resources poured into the old Finn (the new character named "Finn" is completely different) and the resistance faction as a whole
Let's not conflate themFirst, the rework nerf of Finn's leadership. Many will rightly argue that this was what made Finn a valuable character in the first place. It had value in all game modes- Arena, G.A., TW, TB, PVE modes (raids, etc.).
There have been broadly two sets of solutions presented that the community will gladly accept and should fix CG's stated problem (infinite loop in STR)
- Give Treya stacking tenacity (won't affect JTR, NS, etc. but might have an issue with CLS lead). It has the positive that we can avoid the rework nerf altogether
- Give Finn's rework nerf effect only in the STR. This is just as certain characters (heroic- CLS, GMY, etc). and factions (NS, BH) have raid specific powers
This presumes that CG has been completely honest about its motivations for the rework nerfSecond, if CG is set on the rework nerf, we must consider the entire set of resources that have been poured into Finn and the resistance as a whole due to his leadership.
The zeta is only the most obvious and visible exemplar of this. Many of us who run him in arena or GA have G12 (+) ed him, have geared other characters as well. At least the Finn gear and zeta should be refunded. We can then choose if the rework nerf is so wonderful that we want to reinvest in this reworked nerfed Finn.
Come on CG, do the right thing by your player base and honour the promises you have made to us. Otherwise, what credibility will your future pronouncements have?
@CG_Carrie @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat
Really? I just snapped this.
You had me until the gear refund. I'm 100% for the zeta refund, but Finn was good enough at G8. Never gonna get gear back for a toon.
I'm perfectly fine with well meaning people who are directly affected having different acceptable solutions to the problem. In my case, gearing him to G12 was a lot more expensive than zeta-ing him so that's why I want the Gear back (I can use it on so many toons who are now better).
Its what happens when Devs do what CG is doing, fans only be ignored for so long. You can't just ignore your playerbase and think your game won't die. CG is relying on this being Star wars right now to exist.
They keep lie-ing to us. They keep pulling the rug from under us. They keep trying to increase prices for things without putting effort into it, they keep trying to enforce their own arena agenda onto people even though noone there knows how to play their own game (Apparently Warrior told me that someone who "knows the game more then anyone else" was the person behind the GG vid gameplay, the gameplay where we see Old ben instead of R2 on the Rebel team, or watch someone play NS terribly) So even their "Main tester" is really bad at the game.
For the past year they have done nothing for us. And its costing them.
I don't necessarily mind the nerf/rework - at least I understand why it has to happen.
Keeping in mind the health of the game and not just thinking about the now - Finns leadership was awesome, yes, but also very limiting. He also didn't exactly follow the rules of power creep, and for long time players that may not be a big issue - but for the new generation of players, the characters you unlock and their viability need to scale accordingly. If Finn always had a chance to compete with the newest meta, it reduces the importance of new releases, the natural order of growing and unlocking in this game, etc. There is a reason they used General Kenobi led teams as a metric for his viability in Arena - Finn is not an endgame character, so I'd wager a guess that around the same time that you'd be unlocking a decent Resistance zFinn squad, that's what you would be seeing in your arena. As much as we can all have things to say about how this game makes its profit, it does need to profit in order to stay alive.
I mentioned him being limiting too. Finn was always just 1 character ability release away from being incredibly OP, in a way that couldn't easily be countered. His leadership wasn't "too good" but it was consistently good, which is a problem in a game that needs to continue to push the goal posts to stick around. Resistance is going to be expanded on, a lot, in the upcoming months. Between Episode 9, and I believe there is a cartoon, I imagine we'll be getting more than a handful of character releases. The amount of time and testing it would take for them to create those new characters' kits without creating some game breaking combo under a current Finn lead would be incredible, especially considering they barely catch these things as they happen now. This is why our smugglers didn't get the Resistance tag, but they can't justify that for all of the characters upcoming.
So I get it. He had to change. They planned poorly for the future when they made his zeta, and it was a little too good for its own good.
But the way they've gone about this is pretty disheartening.
If, completely outside of the Sith raid, or anything else, they came out and said all of the above and then said "So it's time for us to rework Finn to make way for the future. This way the Resistance faction can have a future of even more powerful teams, not held back by the leadership of the current ability." I'd have completely accepted it.
Well.... almost completely.
The zeta refund is another sticking point with a lot of people, including myself. But I don't think it should be refunded. I am curious to see what sort of viability zFinn has in different game modes like TW/TB/GA/etc. But that doesn't mean that I should be forced to lose out on the ability materials, and neither should anyone else.
I think there should be a good will gift given out to every player in the game, not just zFinn owners. 20 Zeta Mats, maybe some of the other mats required to zeta a character. With the rate of zetas being given to characters when factions are released or reworked, it's not like we're all running out of things to zeta. This keeps the playing field level, as zFinn owners aren't taking a jump forward being able to re-use an old zeta on a newer character/team they have built up. But everyone getting a free one keeps the bar all moving in the same direction at the same pace but would represent a refund for Finn owners, who can still keep their ability and test it out.
For all of the CG employees who aren't reading this post, but maybe you are - the over the top reactions to things people don't like is naturally over the top - but don't discredit what's being said. The communication is consistently terrible. It's not just about commenting on posts, because there's only so much that can be said once you've taken a hard stance on something. But from the beginning - we're all adults. We have jobs, or families, and we understand how the world works.
Whether we might act like it or not, we do value game balance... But when something like this happens - it's obvious what you're stating as your reasons are disingenuous. People will understandably rebel against someone trying to deceive them. Just be up front with us, and be transparent enough. Going back to when it was finally revealed that the reasons the Smugglers didn't get the resistance tag was because of Finn, that was complete honesty and it was accepted I think without question. It was a question of balance, and as much as it would have been cool - we all accepted it, because we weren't being fed some line, it was transparent.
We all know you need to make profit. We know why the packs increased with the addition of crystals. We know why the release schedules are so tightly close to when things are made farmable. We know why certain characters get nerfed, and why every character needs the same 4 different pieces of gear. We understand the game, and not just the one we're playing. We get it. We're here, playing within what's being given to us. The lack of respect for that game ties directly into the lack of respect we're given.
Maybe it hasn't impacted your financials enough yet, and I'm not even going to pretend that I'm trying to threaten them (I am the closest to FTP without being FTP there can be) but literally nothing you do as a developer with your communication truly hides anything - it always gets called out, and shown for what it really is for anyone who might not see it easily for themselves. How about we just try being honest and up front for a change?
Not sure there is a conspiracy. Clearly team wanted to keep Finn utility to the level prior to 3po launch, without changing 3po, in HSR and arena's. As the game progresses, sometimes toons need to be updated, (or nerfed if you will) to keep the game alive. There's nothing more to it than that. All the conspiracy theories are fun, but unhelpful.
Well said *bow*
Thank you
By the way, congratulations on screwing up the star wars gaming franchise. That takes real talent. Seems like a slam dunk for success. This little episode is a fine illustration of your ineptitude.
As mentioned by many, we understand the closing of the loop and preserving game balance but:
Original Finn = 2 separate viable Resistance Teams at existing gear levels
Reworked Finn = 1 viable Resistance team and another only if we invest gear in characters we hadn’t previously geared up. Let’s be frank, a G9 secondary resistance squad is not going to put a dent in a high level GK team in a 5 min battle the way his damage ramps up.
Taking an entire team off the board is not a measured and “Balanced” response to a game breaking loop unless you include the make good of refunding the zeta or as Edison mentioned, issue 20 zeta mats to everyone.
everyone posting in this thread should quote this at least once...it's a great read
Enfys Nest was magically not working as intended when Revan rolled out since she was countering Jedi and needed to be nerfed.
The same week that Grievous rolled out it was announced that zFinn ALSO needs to be nerfed instead of fixing your garbage raid because zFinn shouldnt perform well in your trash raid or compete with Revan because that's just not fair to Revan. Players spent 2 months begging you to fix the loop without touching Finn, and now he is worse than before c3po's arrival.
On the same day that Grievous/Magna/Droideka rolls out, Revan *magically* needed to be fixed to start marking chars at random which now drastically increases the RNG required to run Traya/Bastilla and even fixing Revan's "sowing his oats bug" will not rectify the fact that players invested resources in keeping Traya alive after marked was targeting her 100% of the time.
And now, despite the numerous amounts of bugs with your *new meta* that the previous two teams got nerfed for, Grievous will still not serve as a reliable counter against Revan and they are garbage on defense.
Since the majority of the playerbase are now hesitant to invest in droids after seeing how they work on real accounts, can you just a. Leave zFinn alone and fix your raid, and b. put Revan back to the way he was so that Revan's meta pie slice doesn't shoot up to 95% by obsoleting both of those teams, and wrecking havoc in our TW's and GA's since the only reliable counter to Revan will still be Revan?
I’m fine with the rework, but the zeta should definitely be refunded. We should each be given the opportunity to evaluate the change and determine how to proceed. Personally, this is not the zeta I decided to purchase, and it’s not a zeta I ever would have purchased.
If I buy something for one intended purpose, then it's changed so that intended purpose doesn't work, you didn't make anything better.
Violets are blue
You know I'd refund the Finn Zeta, and so should you.
@CG_Carrie , @CG_TopHat , @CG_SBCrumb
@CG POST THIS ABOVE THE MENS URINALS AND THE BREAKROOM SO YOU HAVE TO READ IT
They made a MAJOR change not only to a Zeta, and a toon, but to how a whole team will gain (and in this case, NOT gain as much) turn meter. It is not even close to the same Zeta people put on him.
So WHY not just refund the Zeta mats, and then people can decide whether or not to put it back on him? They lose NO money here, and gain nothing except hatred by not refunding it.
Sure, some might put the Zeta elsewhere, and, that is should be their right. Will that cause some lost sales? Come on really?
Let me clear too, I don't even have the Zeta, and I am peed off
BTW.- I WANT MY Z FOR GG AND FINN BACK!!!!!
Anger:We invested massive amounts into this leader, toon, team.... You no good ..... You promised us that you were fine with the mechanic except in P3. You...
Bargaining: Come on guys, we had 2 real resistance leaders in TW/TB/GA. Now you removed one and we only have JTR. That's a nerf. Why don't you just insert code that checks if he's in the STR and prevent exposes there?! Or at least give us our resources back (zeta, gear).
Depression- that's where we are now.
The next stage is accepting that you're just a bunch of dishonorable, greedy, thieves, that we can't trust you now or in the future, and quitting SWGOH.