(w)hy do we have an event running for 7 days that was supposed to give us something to do daily?
It's not supposed to give us something to do daily. Almost everything else we do has a time limit of 36 hours (Geo Territory Battles), 24 hours (lots of things) or less (bonus energy, + raids and arena realistically have to be done within 1-2 hour windows, for many guilds raids give you even less time).
We desperately need something that isn't a chore, something that we don't have to do on CG's schedule. If you want more to do on SWGOH, you probably don't actually want more to do every day, because lots of us have work and kids and whatever. It's easy to do a certain amount of game play on public transportation or for a few minutes during lunch hour, but then we all also have days of the week that are more relaxed than others. Days when some extra gaming would be good and fun. (Though I wish it took longer to complete so there would be more to do on those days with extra time for gaming.)
If you have a project like Galactic Challenges that gives you a 7-day window, then you don't have to make it a chore. You can do it when you have time to enjoy it.
Giving us something to do when we want to do it, rather than an everyday chore, was part of the concept from the beginning. They're never going to make it a single-day thing. That would defeat the purpose.
So, no. It was never supposed to give us something to do daily. We've got lots of daily things already.
I think you might be wrong considering this direct quote from the road ahead.
Our main goal for this feature is to provide more activities for players each day. We hear players asking for more ways to use their growing roster of units and want more than just new events that you can master quickly or sim.
Exactly my point,but players that are playing the game casualy are complaining they don't wanna make more time to play the game but also wanna compete with the players that actually play the game for more the 20 min o a bus.
And we are supposed to be sorry that we ask for a game to have some mod that we can play everyday.Because some are ok with collecting energy and spinning toons all day..
You can play this mode every day.
I tried beating tier 1 with jawas this morning and almost succeeded. And it was fun!
You are absolutly right,i tryed my seps vs T6 and T7,but without rewards or without testing vs a common sep squad(like the ones we see in TW or GAC) this will be fun for a little while.
If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.
This. Why hurt the vast majority of great people who play the game? Cheaters are still gonna cheat.
Why that, just why. This is in no way based on anything that has been stated.
It seems silly to base any feedback or energy perpetuating this rumor.
What another complete piles of crap and vomit from CG. Another unoriginal rehashed Crap game type with even crappier rewards, locked behind a ridiculous paywall. Again, shame on CG. SAVE YOUR MONEY PEOPLE!!!! CG IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE GAMING WORLD!
On the current rewards, I'd gear my toons for Assault Battles over this.
While I've enjoyed these fights, I wouldn't hurry to gear anyone to max the rewards.
Assault Battles I would, and have done.
On the current rewards, I'd gear my toons for Assault Battles over this.
While I've enjoyed these fights, I wouldn't hurry to gear anyone to max the rewards.
Assault Battles I would, and have done.
That is good feedback, as they have said the purpose of this is to gather feedback, and in the initial post had already mentioned the possibility of a store. Just like GAC which went through this process the store added more rewards and the ability to select what you need.
I don't see this as a paywall. Be glass half-full about it and see it as a bonus if you happen to have taken a given faction up to the requisite gear levels. I doubt anyone would start relicing squads based on what we have seen so far - but it's an exhibition so let's wait and see how the rewards work out.
No, that doesnt mean we have to like it. Which is why we should be using this time to express our constructive feedback about this game mode.
Ok, let's do this.
1) feats and rewards
The feats are important in this game mode imo. This is where you can't just put your a-team and win the fight. That's where the puzzle starts.
So, if you ask players to put time and effort to solve the puzzle, some kind of reward is appreciated.
I understand that the quantity of rewards is low, especially if it's a 2 or 3 Times per week event. However it's a quality issue, not quantity imo. I take a small quantity of gear i need over a pile of gear i already have thousand of any day.
2) winning the fight with an all sith team is a feat. Winning the fight with an all r3 sith team is a prerequisite.
No, that doesnt mean we have to like it. Which is why we should be using this time to express our constructive feedback about this game mode.
Ok, let's do this.
1) feats and rewards
The feats are important in this game mode imo. This is where you can't just put your a-team and win the fight. That's where the puzzle starts.
So, if you ask players to put time and effort to solve the puzzle, some kind of reward is appreciated.
I understand that the quantity of rewards is low, especially if it's a 2 or 3 Times per week event. However it's a quality issue, not quantity imo. I take a small quantity of gear i need over a pile of gear i already have thousand of any day.
2) winning the fight with an all sith team is a feat. Winning the fight with an all r3 sith team is a prerequisite.
2) you are correct it is a feat, just not the one listed for the rewards.
Beating this with all jawa or tuskans would also be a feat, but that doesn't mean they will give you rewards for a feat that says to do it with Sith.
This is all part of the exhibition, and we should wait and see how these change as we move forward. Also from the way they tall about it those seem to be something that can/will be added changed later too.
No, that doesnt mean we have to like it. Which is why we should be using this time to express our constructive feedback about this game mode.
Ok, let's do this.
1) feats and rewards
The feats are important in this game mode imo. This is where you can't just put your a-team and win the fight. That's where the puzzle starts.
So, if you ask players to put time and effort to solve the puzzle, some kind of reward is appreciated.
I understand that the quantity of rewards is low, especially if it's a 2 or 3 Times per week event. However it's a quality issue, not quantity imo. I take a small quantity of gear i need over a pile of gear i already have thousand of any day.
2) winning the fight with an all sith team is a feat. Winning the fight with an all r3 sith team is a prerequisite.
2) you are correct it is a feat, just not the one listed for the rewards.
Beating this with all jawa or tuskans would also be a feat, but that doesn't mean they will give you rewards for a feat that says to do it with Sith.
This is all part of the exhibition, and we should wait and see how these change as we move forward. Also from the way they tall about it those seem to be something that can/will be added changed later too.
Isn't part of the exhibition to give feedback? Waiting to see how it plays out sort of defeats the purpose. I, for one,
really hope the final iteration doesn't involve locking the best rewards of each tier behind gear or relic levels. I can only base my judgement of what it will be on what is presented. If we wait until the exhibition is done, then what?
No, that doesnt mean we have to like it. Which is why we should be using this time to express our constructive feedback about this game mode.
Ok, let's do this.
1) feats and rewards
The feats are important in this game mode imo. This is where you can't just put your a-team and win the fight. That's where the puzzle starts.
So, if you ask players to put time and effort to solve the puzzle, some kind of reward is appreciated.
I understand that the quantity of rewards is low, especially if it's a 2 or 3 Times per week event. However it's a quality issue, not quantity imo. I take a small quantity of gear i need over a pile of gear i already have thousand of any day.
2) winning the fight with an all sith team is a feat. Winning the fight with an all r3 sith team is a prerequisite.
2) you are correct it is a feat, just not the one listed for the rewards.
Beating this with all jawa or tuskans would also be a feat, but that doesn't mean they will give you rewards for a feat that says to do it with Sith.
This is all part of the exhibition, and we should wait and see how these change as we move forward. Also from the way they tall about it those seem to be something that can/will be added changed later too.
2) I guess i tried to be witty and failed miserably
I'll add some needed words for clariry
Team prerequisite is fun imo. It creates a puzzle. Gear prerequisite not so much, it's just a barrier that add nothing to gameplay. I can gear the team needed on my own if i found the challenge too difficult. And if i found a way to do it with less that what is aimed for, good for me, i've beaten this one puzzle, please let me enjoy the rewards. There are so many possibilities in gc that i won't see the same puzzle anytime soon, so if a puzzle is badly tweaked and the feat attainable with a g10 team , well no biggie, a new one is coming in 2-3 days
On a whole, i like GC. A different battle 3 times a week that i can't play without my thinking cap on is very nice. Just please give me some sugar if i can beat your puzzles, and not a piece of candy from halloween 2004.
Sidenote: now that we'll have some fresh battles almost everyday, it may be a good time to allow the simming of assault battle we 3 starred already. Doing the same battles over and over isn't so fun. It was ok when we didn't have a better thing to do. Now we have !
The r3 or r5 requirement for the main rewards are truly bad. I have several Sith already reliced. Four are at r3 already so it really wouldn't take a lot to get a 5th there.
However, the gear required to get even one sith from g12+ just needing the finisher to r3 is probably 20 times or more than you get in rewards. And with no guarantee of the sith being needed again for gc, there's really no reason to deviate from other projects to gear them just for a few pieces of decent gear. And if you need more than one sith to finish the r3 or r5, then it only gets less worth it.
Maybe once there is a recurring schedule and you know that you'll get the rewards over and over it could be worth it in the long run.
The other rewards are even worse. You should at least get something for beating the event even if you don't meet the relic check.
Ive managed to beat up to t6 now and I can’t get any good rewards bcuz I don’t even meet the gear req for t5
Yeah, I have no problem beating t7 and even 3*ing it. My Rey is new, so this was actually a good chance to practice using her ability, and I've played t7 with her multiple times for that reason, even after 3*ing it.
But I only have 3 relic Sith. so there's no point in even trying to use them on t6 and t7. The rewards already came in, and I don't need practice adding Vader to my relic DR/Malak squad. It's not like I'm going to be using that team a bunch and need a sandbox to practice like I did with Rey. And, if I needed a further disincentive, the "puzzle" to using sith here is that you have to use Traya because as bad as it is to lose 5% health per debuff, stacking huge numbers of DoTs on Vader and then having him use MMassacre is just a creative way of Vader killing himself, not winning the battle.
Put a Traya team in with some ability block, and the Seps are toast. They have their DoTs and keep healing all the sith since they'll always be debuffed and always be damaging a sith on their turn. The only things you have to worry about are the Sniper droid and GG's AOE, which can kill people from 100% health (though if they survive, they immediately get 50% health back).
...except I don't have Traya geared, so?
Anyway, this event is underwhelming, but I'm not ruling out the possibility it could get better.
Lordsmorg wrote: »
And please don’t say other players need that reward, it’s 100% proven that anyone who CAN get this reward DOESN'T need it
Where is it proven?
It is proven by the fact that taking a toon from g12 to g13 costs more gear than you would get back for many, many events. People here, including me, have already done some math on this earlier in the thread.
Since there are a lot of factions and the rewards are faction specific, you can't count on re-using your relic investment more than once/month.
That means that at the current level of rewards, gearing a single toon up to qualify for rewards (if you were lucky enough to have 4 qualifying toons already) would mean that you don't get any return on your investment for multiple years on most things, though it's only 6.25 months on Kyrotech.
For a complete squad, you're talking about not getting an ROI for 32 months (more than 2 and a half years) and much, much longer for the rest of the gear.
So, it's quite well proven that if you can upgrade your toons to get the reward, you don't need it.
That's a slightly different claim than the original person made, but as modified I completely stand by it.
This means that there is literally ZERO motivation to upgrade toons for GalChallenges.
Sure, if I already have the right 5 toons I don't mind getting a few extra kyros. And I'm not quitting the game just because GC has terrible rewards, so I might still need that gear for something else that does pay you back for upgrading your toons (like SLKR which allows you to solo HSTR and get much, much better rewards).
Just think: for the cost of upgrading 3 squads for the meager GC rewards, you could have SLKR and get guaranteed top10 HSTR rewards in almost any guild.
Would you rather have guaranteed top10 HSTR rewards or would you rather have 16 extra kyros from GCs 3x month?
That's what I thought.
No one will complain if they happen to get the extra kyros, but no one who plays the game will mistake GCs as a game mode into which players are supposed to put any effort.
I enjoyed the Galactic Challenges, for the 30 minutes maximum it took to complete them all. The rewards are not fantastic and the only real reason I have been back in to the event is to see when the next one starts. With the rewards as they are I would have expected a daily refresh...
I agree with what I have seen in the posts, the recommended "TAB" is way off the mark for me...
It is great to get new content but I get the feeling there's a lot more disappointment than fulfilment when it comes to everyone's hopes for this event!
Certainly not something that would prompt me to spend, more interested in JKLS
The devs are still suffering from the LS Geo power curve mindset of making things so hard people need to grow into them. Problem is, they lock the rewards needed to grow behind the difficulty levels they haven’t yet grown to.
Yeah, this.
If they're correct that they can now produce new content easily and often, then they shouldn't be tuning this week's content for rosters we can grow into 5 years from now.
I'm not saying that the difficulty can never be what it is today, but if the whole point is constant reinvention, then future proofing it is terribly misguided.
Cheaters and rewards:
Yeah, these are bad. Some people are saying that we need to set up the feats this way to prevent cheating b/c one can more easily hack the client on one's own device than the server. Since the server checks your toons to make sure they met the minimum gear for the Feat, that makes cheating much more difficult than simply cheating to win the battle.
But here's the thing: Don't design the game for cheaters.
Cheaters cheat. They're terrible. I don't like them and I don't want them to succeed at cheating.
That said, denying honest gamers rewards because that makes it easier for cheaters makes no sense. As it turns out, one 100% foolproof way to prevent cheaters from getting these rewards is very easy: just shut down the game and let no one log in again, ever.
Oh, wait. That kills everyone else's fun just to hurt the cheaters? And that's a bad idea? Really?
So maybe hurting honest players' rewards to make it harder to cheat is also a bad idea? Not quite as bad as shutting the game down forever, but you're still hurting the innocent to punish the guilty. That makes no sense.
Relics and rewards:
Separately from the issue of cheaters, let's think about this: the rewards, even for those who meet the high-end requirements, will take years to pay back the investment in a single high-relic toon.
Math:
We're not going to need the same faction every time, so investing in g12 gear and relics to gain a few salvage (twice if you meet the r5 requirement) will not pay back that investment before the death of the game.
We don't know yet how often these will run and therefore how often we'll need and can benefit from that single toon in which we invested gear. But let's say it's once per month.
Let's also say you were at g12+3 before you decided to invest in that character for Galactic Challenges.
There are a total of 16 Kyros possible per month, paying back your Kyro investment in approximately 6 months.
Now, there are a lot of factions, so if you only get to use Sith once every 3 months, your investment pays back in 18 months.
6-18 months isn't that bad, of course, but what if you need to boost 2 characters to qualify for the rewards? Well, now it's 1-3 years. Also, that's only the Kyros. The game doesn't offer Holo Lenses or Mk12 Fusion Furnaces. That gear is, effectively, never recouped.
Of course, you do get 175 crystals, so you could buy the Gold Stun Cuffs and Mk12 Stun Guns and whatever using those extra crystals. How long would that take?
Well, you can buy the signal data necessary for Relic 5 for one character for only, let's see, 100 crystals = 7.5 attempts = 9-10 of the easiest data, 7.5 of the middle data, and 5 of the hardest data.
We need 75, 65, and 15. So the crystal cost is 800, 900, and 300 respectively, or 2000 crystals total.
2000/175 = 11.4 repeats of the event.
With one a month, that means that it takes 12 months to recoup the investment.
At one every 3 months, it will take 3 years
If you're taking 2 toons up to R5, that means 2-6 years.
But wait, we still haven't even purchased the g12+ gear and the g12 Finisher! How much do those cost?
Well, the g12+ gear requires 90 rare gold salvage (50 of one, 2 x 20 of the other) plus 40 g12 purple salvage and 50 of something we don't care that much about (except for the Mk12 Stun Gun where that last 50 is made up of Mk5 Stun Gun salvage). We have to do that twice. Drop rate is about 20%, from what i can tell, though estimates vary for the different pieces to as high as 25% for the purple and as low as 16% for the rarest gold salvage. Let's just keep it 20% for ease of calculation, this is just an estimate after all.
130 salvage thus requires 650 attempts per full piece, but 1300 attempts because we need 2x g12+ pieces. Then we need 50 more salvage of the rare g12 type for the finisher that we haven't accounted for yet. That's another 500 attempts, so a total of 1800 attempts.
We get 12 attempts per 50 crystals, if we're willing to wait and only purchase 3 refreshes a day. It gets in the way of other farming this way, of course, but this is the cheapest crystal-cost way of getting the gear and we're only concerned with crystal cost right now.
1800/12 = 150. 150 * 50 = 7500.
So it costs another 7500 crystals to boost that qualifying toon from g12+3 to r5.
With 175 per event, we need 42.857 events to break even. Let's add in the events needed for the crystals necessary to get the signal data we spent. We're ignoring the gear spent to get Relic Salvage b/c up to r4 it's inconsequential, but we should add the 600 crystals needed for the Holo projector to reach r5. That's 3.42 events. The signal data was 11.4 events.
So all told, to recoup our non-Kyro investment we only need 3.42 + 11.4 + 42.857 events. Again, we don't know how often Galactic Challenges will reuse the same faction, but the safe estimate is, I feel, every 1 to 3 months.
42 events then represents 3.5 to 10.5 years.
Of course, after the first 6 to 18 months we're turning a Kyro profit, and you're free to balance that out against all the other gear you spent to qualify for the GalChallenge rewards, but suffice it to say it's going to take a long while before your Kyro profit makes up for the remaining g12+ and g12 finisher deficit.
And, as a final reminder, those are the payback periods for gear, signal data and Kyros if you already had 4 toons that qualified and you just had to gear up one more toon.
The payback period on a 5-toon squad relic'd just for this event will be 2 and 1/2 to 7 and 1/2 years for Kyros, and seventeen-point-five-years minimum on the other gear and signal data required.
So, whatever else you can say about these challenges, It's an absolute no brainer that boosting a single toon from below relics to r5 just to meet the event requirements is NEVER worth it. Galacitc Challenges, without major changes, simply will never constitute a reason to upgrade your roster. At best it's a small bonus to those who upgraded their roster for other reasons and happened to have the right toons available.
What should be done? What can be done?
Let's start with what should be done first: Gear rewards must be available to characters who need them, not to those who no longer need them.
G12+3 toons must qualify to earn g12+ gear. G12+4 toons must qualify to earn g12 finishers. R3 toons must qualify to earn signal data. R5 toons must qualify to earn Zinbiddle Cards and Electrium Conductors.
It doesn't have to be a lot, but it must help players who aren't at a certain level get to that level. This is the difference between charging less at the cash register and charging full price but providing a form to fill out for a mail-in rebate later.
Relics began as an exclusive club, but now they constitute event requirements, not to mention Territory Battle requirements for BOTH Geo TBs (yes, DS is easier, but also yes it still requires toons to be relic'd).
As the game's expectations progress from "Gosh, it would be really cool to be able to relic one of my characters," to, "I can't qualify for the event without relic'ing 12 of my characters" the cost of access to relic levels must also decline.
We also want people to be motivated to spend time figuring out the best teams and strategies to maximize success. Why? Because it means more play time, which is, after all, why we're here. Furthermore, the event as currently structured does NOT encourage use of one's entire roster - which is one of the goals that CG said that they had for GalChallenges. That's gotta be addressed, no?
So what can we do to fix this?
1. Ditch the top 2 tiers as they currently exist. The top rewards are available to any g12 or better squad.
2. The g12 or better tier might be tweaked to be slightly more difficult than is currently the case, but not as hard as the current r3 tier.
3. Crystals should be granted for each victory using a different squad that all share a single faction, with one victory also allowed using a mixed-faction squad. This reward can be gained a maximum of 5 times. Your first victory earns 50 crystals, your next victory that uses a different single-faction squad earns 40 crystals, and the next 3 using new single-faction squads (or your first victory using a mixed-faction squad) each earn 30 crystals. This totals 180 crystals, which is almost identical to the current 175, BUT unlike the current event, it actually encourages using one's whole roster.
4. Signal Data should be granted with Crystals for the same accomplishments. Each time you earn a crystal reward, you also earn 4, 3, and 2 signal data respectively, for a grand total of 20 of the easiest signal data, 15 of the middle, and 10 of the hardest per Galactic Challenge event. This is about 1/6th of what's needed of the easiest to reach r7, 1/8th of the middle, and 2/15ths of the hardest.
5. The gear reward should include g12+ and g12 (purple) salvage. The Kyros should not be reduced.
6. However, the gear reward should be split into different tiers and/or feats.
7. First gear reward is for anyone who completes the top tier with 1* and grants 5 purple g12 salvage plus 1 additional purple g12 salvage for each surviving member of your squad.
8. Second gear reward is for anyone who completes the top tier with 3* and grants 3 g12 finisher salvage, 6 g12+ salvage, 9 g12 gold salvage, and 6 more purple g12 salvage.
9. Third gear reward is available for anyone who completes the top tier with 3* using the favored faction. This grants 5 finisher salvage 6 kyros, 3 g12+ salvage, and 6 more purple g12 salvage.
10. Fourth gear reward requires the favored faction using an undersized squad. This grants a Title and/or Profile artwork plus 3 kyro of each type for each slot left empty when entering the battle. This means soloing the Challenge yield an extra 12 kyros of each type, though looking at the difficulty of this event, even at the g12 tier, I don't think this would be possible. Still, maybe someone could pull off a victory with only 2 characters.
Explanation of why the rewards should be like this:
This last tier or challenge or whatever you want to call it grants the same title or artwork whether you win the battle with 1 character or 4. However, it still provides an interesting challenge for those who want to maximize their Kyro payout, playing the event again with one less toon at a time until they reach the point where they simply don't have hope of doing any better than they have.
You are also encouraged by the crystal reward to beat the event with at least 4 different single-faction squads and one mixed-faction squad.
The current design encourages people to play each tier one time with the favored squad for max rewards and then move on. Although we've cut 2 tiers, by encouraging players to beat the now-final tier 5 different times using 5 different strategies (or at the very least 4 different strategies and then taking their strongest team that already beat it and swapping out 1 toon, I admit that's a likely fudge for people with very powerful rosters). The mixed-faction squad may seem redundant to high-end players, but it allows lower-end players to engage in theory crafting and creative use of their best toons to at least get something.
Total rewards include approximately 1x full g12 purple piece. Since 2 of these are needed for each and every g12 piece except the finisher, this is only 10% of the purple gear needed for a single toon. It seems like a lot, but it really isn't.
You also get 9 g12+ premiere salvage and 9 g12 gold salvage.
You need 90 g12 salvage for left-hand pieces (these are the Armor Plating & Multi-Tool etc. that require 1x 30) and 80 for right-hand ones (these are the Mk12 Implants and Security Scanners & the like that require 2x 20). So a single character requires 170, and this event provides 5.3% of the requirements for a single toon.
The g12+ salvage (Mk 12 Holo Projectors, Mk12 Stun Guns & the like which require 1x 50) are required in the finisher as well, so you need 150 of them. 9 thus constitutes 6% of the requirements of a single toon.
If you can't beat the event undersized while using the favored faction you get 6 kyros. This is the current reward for r3 and so it becomes slightly easier to get. However, to get 10 more (really 12) you would have to beat the event with a 3-toon squad. This probably does function something very much like an r5 requirement, if not an r7.
Except for the extreme end of Kyro production with someone killing the Galactic Challenge with a single God-toon for 24 bonus Kyros, and except for the g12 finisher salvage (which maxes out at 8/50) we're talking about 5.3% to 10% of the requirements of the different g12 pieces for a single toon during each Galactic Challenge cycle.
If you were waiting for GalChall to provide you with all the g12 gear to relic a toon, you'd have to wait through 19 Galactic Challenges for some gear although it would be as little as 10 for other gear.
This means that Galactic challenges, if run once per week, would provide the gear to upgrade one toon from g12 to g13/relic0 in just over 2 months.
That's an extra 5-6 relic toons per year, assuming that you can always field a g12 squad of the favored faction and defeat the event with that faction getting 3 stars. That's not always going to happen for people. Even end game folks are going to have some underdeveloped factions, so for all but the highest end players, who are probably whaling anyway, you're talking about an extra 0 (for newbies) to 5 extra relic'd toons per year, with 3-4 extra toons relic'd per year being common for high end FtP, people that are currently between 4.5M and 6M gp.
When the current game has just dropped 3 toons requiring 32 relic'd characters between them in the last 6 months as event entry requirements, an extra 3-4 relic toons per YEAR is not too much to ask.
These changes will thus provide measurable, noticeable progress for end-game/non-elite players (3-5 extra toons taken from g12+0 to Relic0 per year) against a backdrop of increasing demands for relic'd toons (32 new toons requiring relics for the 2 GL events and JKL event announced in just the last 6 months) while at the same time adding a mechanic (rewards for beating the event with different factions) that actually accomplishes a stated goal of Galactic Challenges (encouraging people to use their entire roster) and provides more variety of game play (currently you need only defeat the event once with the favored faction to get all the worthwhile rewards, the proposal requires beating the event 5 times and using at least 4 entirely different squads which will necessarily require different strategies) and thus invites more creativity and theorycrafting as well as using the breadth of your roster.
I'm glad you've developed a tool that allows you to produce new content more frequently, but the current incentives to play the event only once and with only one squad, especially combined with a high-relic requirement to qualify to earn the gear that one needs to relic toons, makes this incarnation of GalChallenges fall far short of what they could be and should be.
It would be cool if they somehow had future galactic challenges (after our testing phase) that gave us new character shards for toons they haven’t added and don’t fit the era we are in. For example maybe a Galactic challenge that each tier gives u are varying number of shards of someone like 4-Lom, Dreidan Voss, or Beckett. I think people like them would make sense bc, as an overall theme, it wouldn’t make sense to marquee the solo movie. There are plenty of eras, shows, and movies that didn’t get all the people u would hope for but we know they won’t revisit just for a character or two. (Like snoke and praetorians). Could be a cool way to sometimes beef up rewards. I’d rather get 1 snoke shards for tier 1 than a piece of gear I have 4000 of.
Would love people to give positive input from people. Key word being “positive”.
So you would be ok getting one character shard every time the event is available? At 330 shards needed to 7* a character and the event happening once a month, you would have to purchase shards to max them out or wait almost 28 years.
Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
So you would be ok getting one character shard every time the event is available? At 330 shards needed to 7* a character and the event happening once a month, you would have to purchase shards to max them out or wait almost 28 years.
My wording was “for tier 1”. I was thinking 1 for tier one, 2 for tier 2, 3 for tier 3,and so on. So if u beat all (and this is clearly hypothetical), it would be 28 shards. Or 11.7 times of beating the event. If they are rotating the 8 or so (I highly doubt any will remain a week long, probably 2-3 days), doesn’t seem that wild of a stretch. Especially if we see each one at least once a month. Hell Getting KAM to 7 stars will take a large portion of guilds over a year so the time frame isn’t too far from what we have grown accustom too.
Bit disappointing but I think I'll take CG at face value on this one. See if they take onboard any feedback and tweak the event after the exhibition. Hopefully.
Bit disappointing but I think I'll take CG at face value on this one. See if they take onboard any feedback and tweak the event after the exhibition. Hopefully.
But do they really need feedback to tell them these rewards are horrible? C'mon. This shows one of two things:
1) They have no idea what players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
2) They don't care what the players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
Where, in the entire history of the Q&A, surveys, previous feedback on events, etc., did any player ever say "Could we please have something like assault battles - but more restrictive, more monotonous, less interesting and with less rewards?"
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Bit disappointing but I think I'll take CG at face value on this one. See if they take onboard any feedback and tweak the event after the exhibition. Hopefully.
But do they really need feedback to tell them these rewards are horrible? C'mon. This shows one of two things:
1) They have no idea what players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
2) They don't care what the players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
Where, in the entire history of the Q&A, surveys, previous feedback on events, etc., did any player ever say "Could we please have something like assault battles - but more restrictive, more monotonous, less interesting and with less rewards?"
I had assumed the gear pieces were effectively placeholders and will be swapped out when the real event gets rolled out.
But I don't disagree with your assessment. The rewards are very poor. I'm just reserving judgement for the time being.
Replies
You are absolutly right,i tryed my seps vs T6 and T7,but without rewards or without testing vs a common sep squad(like the ones we see in TW or GAC) this will be fun for a little while.
Why that, just why. This is in no way based on anything that has been stated.
It seems silly to base any feedback or energy perpetuating this rumor.
Good reason, sure, you are not following "the rules" to win the prize.
No, that doesnt mean we have to like it. Which is why we should be using this time to express our constructive feedback about this game mode.
What paywall?
While I've enjoyed these fights, I wouldn't hurry to gear anyone to max the rewards.
Assault Battles I would, and have done.
That is good feedback, as they have said the purpose of this is to gather feedback, and in the initial post had already mentioned the possibility of a store. Just like GAC which went through this process the store added more rewards and the ability to select what you need.
Hopefully we are this as things progress.
1) feats and rewards
The feats are important in this game mode imo. This is where you can't just put your a-team and win the fight. That's where the puzzle starts.
So, if you ask players to put time and effort to solve the puzzle, some kind of reward is appreciated.
I understand that the quantity of rewards is low, especially if it's a 2 or 3 Times per week event. However it's a quality issue, not quantity imo. I take a small quantity of gear i need over a pile of gear i already have thousand of any day.
2) winning the fight with an all sith team is a feat. Winning the fight with an all r3 sith team is a prerequisite.
2) you are correct it is a feat, just not the one listed for the rewards.
Beating this with all jawa or tuskans would also be a feat, but that doesn't mean they will give you rewards for a feat that says to do it with Sith.
This is all part of the exhibition, and we should wait and see how these change as we move forward. Also from the way they tall about it those seem to be something that can/will be added changed later too.
Isn't part of the exhibition to give feedback? Waiting to see how it plays out sort of defeats the purpose. I, for one,
really hope the final iteration doesn't involve locking the best rewards of each tier behind gear or relic levels. I can only base my judgement of what it will be on what is presented. If we wait until the exhibition is done, then what?
2) I guess i tried to be witty and failed miserably
I'll add some needed words for clariry
Team prerequisite is fun imo. It creates a puzzle. Gear prerequisite not so much, it's just a barrier that add nothing to gameplay. I can gear the team needed on my own if i found the challenge too difficult. And if i found a way to do it with less that what is aimed for, good for me, i've beaten this one puzzle, please let me enjoy the rewards. There are so many possibilities in gc that i won't see the same puzzle anytime soon, so if a puzzle is badly tweaked and the feat attainable with a g10 team , well no biggie, a new one is coming in 2-3 days
On a whole, i like GC. A different battle 3 times a week that i can't play without my thinking cap on is very nice. Just please give me some sugar if i can beat your puzzles, and not a piece of candy from halloween 2004.
Sidenote: now that we'll have some fresh battles almost everyday, it may be a good time to allow the simming of assault battle we 3 starred already. Doing the same battles over and over isn't so fun. It was ok when we didn't have a better thing to do. Now we have !
However, the gear required to get even one sith from g12+ just needing the finisher to r3 is probably 20 times or more than you get in rewards. And with no guarantee of the sith being needed again for gc, there's really no reason to deviate from other projects to gear them just for a few pieces of decent gear. And if you need more than one sith to finish the r3 or r5, then it only gets less worth it.
Maybe once there is a recurring schedule and you know that you'll get the rewards over and over it could be worth it in the long run.
The other rewards are even worse. You should at least get something for beating the event even if you don't meet the relic check.
Yeah, I have no problem beating t7 and even 3*ing it. My Rey is new, so this was actually a good chance to practice using her ability, and I've played t7 with her multiple times for that reason, even after 3*ing it.
But I only have 3 relic Sith. so there's no point in even trying to use them on t6 and t7. The rewards already came in, and I don't need practice adding Vader to my relic DR/Malak squad. It's not like I'm going to be using that team a bunch and need a sandbox to practice like I did with Rey. And, if I needed a further disincentive, the "puzzle" to using sith here is that you have to use Traya because as bad as it is to lose 5% health per debuff, stacking huge numbers of DoTs on Vader and then having him use MMassacre is just a creative way of Vader killing himself, not winning the battle.
Put a Traya team in with some ability block, and the Seps are toast. They have their DoTs and keep healing all the sith since they'll always be debuffed and always be damaging a sith on their turn. The only things you have to worry about are the Sniper droid and GG's AOE, which can kill people from 100% health (though if they survive, they immediately get 50% health back).
...except I don't have Traya geared, so?
Anyway, this event is underwhelming, but I'm not ruling out the possibility it could get better.
It is proven by the fact that taking a toon from g12 to g13 costs more gear than you would get back for many, many events. People here, including me, have already done some math on this earlier in the thread.
Since there are a lot of factions and the rewards are faction specific, you can't count on re-using your relic investment more than once/month.
That means that at the current level of rewards, gearing a single toon up to qualify for rewards (if you were lucky enough to have 4 qualifying toons already) would mean that you don't get any return on your investment for multiple years on most things, though it's only 6.25 months on Kyrotech.
For a complete squad, you're talking about not getting an ROI for 32 months (more than 2 and a half years) and much, much longer for the rest of the gear.
So, it's quite well proven that if you can upgrade your toons to get the reward, you don't need it.
That's a slightly different claim than the original person made, but as modified I completely stand by it.
This means that there is literally ZERO motivation to upgrade toons for GalChallenges.
Sure, if I already have the right 5 toons I don't mind getting a few extra kyros. And I'm not quitting the game just because GC has terrible rewards, so I might still need that gear for something else that does pay you back for upgrading your toons (like SLKR which allows you to solo HSTR and get much, much better rewards).
Just think: for the cost of upgrading 3 squads for the meager GC rewards, you could have SLKR and get guaranteed top10 HSTR rewards in almost any guild.
Would you rather have guaranteed top10 HSTR rewards or would you rather have 16 extra kyros from GCs 3x month?
That's what I thought.
No one will complain if they happen to get the extra kyros, but no one who plays the game will mistake GCs as a game mode into which players are supposed to put any effort.
This is strictly icing, no substance.
I agree with what I have seen in the posts, the recommended "TAB" is way off the mark for me...
It is great to get new content but I get the feeling there's a lot more disappointment than fulfilment when it comes to everyone's hopes for this event!
Certainly not something that would prompt me to spend, more interested in JKLS
Yeah, this.
If they're correct that they can now produce new content easily and often, then they shouldn't be tuning this week's content for rosters we can grow into 5 years from now.
I'm not saying that the difficulty can never be what it is today, but if the whole point is constant reinvention, then future proofing it is terribly misguided.
Cheaters and rewards:
Yeah, these are bad. Some people are saying that we need to set up the feats this way to prevent cheating b/c one can more easily hack the client on one's own device than the server. Since the server checks your toons to make sure they met the minimum gear for the Feat, that makes cheating much more difficult than simply cheating to win the battle.
But here's the thing: Don't design the game for cheaters.
Cheaters cheat. They're terrible. I don't like them and I don't want them to succeed at cheating.
That said, denying honest gamers rewards because that makes it easier for cheaters makes no sense. As it turns out, one 100% foolproof way to prevent cheaters from getting these rewards is very easy: just shut down the game and let no one log in again, ever.
Oh, wait. That kills everyone else's fun just to hurt the cheaters? And that's a bad idea? Really?
So maybe hurting honest players' rewards to make it harder to cheat is also a bad idea? Not quite as bad as shutting the game down forever, but you're still hurting the innocent to punish the guilty. That makes no sense.
Relics and rewards:
Separately from the issue of cheaters, let's think about this: the rewards, even for those who meet the high-end requirements, will take years to pay back the investment in a single high-relic toon.
Math:
We don't know yet how often these will run and therefore how often we'll need and can benefit from that single toon in which we invested gear. But let's say it's once per month.
Let's also say you were at g12+3 before you decided to invest in that character for Galactic Challenges.
There are a total of 16 Kyros possible per month, paying back your Kyro investment in approximately 6 months.
Now, there are a lot of factions, so if you only get to use Sith once every 3 months, your investment pays back in 18 months.
6-18 months isn't that bad, of course, but what if you need to boost 2 characters to qualify for the rewards? Well, now it's 1-3 years. Also, that's only the Kyros. The game doesn't offer Holo Lenses or Mk12 Fusion Furnaces. That gear is, effectively, never recouped.
Of course, you do get 175 crystals, so you could buy the Gold Stun Cuffs and Mk12 Stun Guns and whatever using those extra crystals. How long would that take?
Well, you can buy the signal data necessary for Relic 5 for one character for only, let's see, 100 crystals = 7.5 attempts = 9-10 of the easiest data, 7.5 of the middle data, and 5 of the hardest data.
We need 75, 65, and 15. So the crystal cost is 800, 900, and 300 respectively, or 2000 crystals total.
2000/175 = 11.4 repeats of the event.
With one a month, that means that it takes 12 months to recoup the investment.
At one every 3 months, it will take 3 years
If you're taking 2 toons up to R5, that means 2-6 years.
But wait, we still haven't even purchased the g12+ gear and the g12 Finisher! How much do those cost?
Well, the g12+ gear requires 90 rare gold salvage (50 of one, 2 x 20 of the other) plus 40 g12 purple salvage and 50 of something we don't care that much about (except for the Mk12 Stun Gun where that last 50 is made up of Mk5 Stun Gun salvage). We have to do that twice. Drop rate is about 20%, from what i can tell, though estimates vary for the different pieces to as high as 25% for the purple and as low as 16% for the rarest gold salvage. Let's just keep it 20% for ease of calculation, this is just an estimate after all.
130 salvage thus requires 650 attempts per full piece, but 1300 attempts because we need 2x g12+ pieces. Then we need 50 more salvage of the rare g12 type for the finisher that we haven't accounted for yet. That's another 500 attempts, so a total of 1800 attempts.
We get 12 attempts per 50 crystals, if we're willing to wait and only purchase 3 refreshes a day. It gets in the way of other farming this way, of course, but this is the cheapest crystal-cost way of getting the gear and we're only concerned with crystal cost right now.
1800/12 = 150. 150 * 50 = 7500.
So it costs another 7500 crystals to boost that qualifying toon from g12+3 to r5.
With 175 per event, we need 42.857 events to break even. Let's add in the events needed for the crystals necessary to get the signal data we spent. We're ignoring the gear spent to get Relic Salvage b/c up to r4 it's inconsequential, but we should add the 600 crystals needed for the Holo projector to reach r5. That's 3.42 events. The signal data was 11.4 events.
So all told, to recoup our non-Kyro investment we only need 3.42 + 11.4 + 42.857 events. Again, we don't know how often Galactic Challenges will reuse the same faction, but the safe estimate is, I feel, every 1 to 3 months.
42 events then represents 3.5 to 10.5 years.
Of course, after the first 6 to 18 months we're turning a Kyro profit, and you're free to balance that out against all the other gear you spent to qualify for the GalChallenge rewards, but suffice it to say it's going to take a long while before your Kyro profit makes up for the remaining g12+ and g12 finisher deficit.
And, as a final reminder, those are the payback periods for gear, signal data and Kyros if you already had 4 toons that qualified and you just had to gear up one more toon.
The payback period on a 5-toon squad relic'd just for this event will be 2 and 1/2 to 7 and 1/2 years for Kyros, and seventeen-point-five-years minimum on the other gear and signal data required.
So, whatever else you can say about these challenges, It's an absolute no brainer that boosting a single toon from below relics to r5 just to meet the event requirements is NEVER worth it. Galacitc Challenges, without major changes, simply will never constitute a reason to upgrade your roster. At best it's a small bonus to those who upgraded their roster for other reasons and happened to have the right toons available.
What should be done? What can be done?
Let's start with what should be done first: Gear rewards must be available to characters who need them, not to those who no longer need them.
G12+3 toons must qualify to earn g12+ gear. G12+4 toons must qualify to earn g12 finishers. R3 toons must qualify to earn signal data. R5 toons must qualify to earn Zinbiddle Cards and Electrium Conductors.
It doesn't have to be a lot, but it must help players who aren't at a certain level get to that level. This is the difference between charging less at the cash register and charging full price but providing a form to fill out for a mail-in rebate later.
Relics began as an exclusive club, but now they constitute event requirements, not to mention Territory Battle requirements for BOTH Geo TBs (yes, DS is easier, but also yes it still requires toons to be relic'd).
As the game's expectations progress from "Gosh, it would be really cool to be able to relic one of my characters," to, "I can't qualify for the event without relic'ing 12 of my characters" the cost of access to relic levels must also decline.
We also want people to be motivated to spend time figuring out the best teams and strategies to maximize success. Why? Because it means more play time, which is, after all, why we're here. Furthermore, the event as currently structured does NOT encourage use of one's entire roster - which is one of the goals that CG said that they had for GalChallenges. That's gotta be addressed, no?
So what can we do to fix this?
1. Ditch the top 2 tiers as they currently exist. The top rewards are available to any g12 or better squad.
2. The g12 or better tier might be tweaked to be slightly more difficult than is currently the case, but not as hard as the current r3 tier.
3. Crystals should be granted for each victory using a different squad that all share a single faction, with one victory also allowed using a mixed-faction squad. This reward can be gained a maximum of 5 times. Your first victory earns 50 crystals, your next victory that uses a different single-faction squad earns 40 crystals, and the next 3 using new single-faction squads (or your first victory using a mixed-faction squad) each earn 30 crystals. This totals 180 crystals, which is almost identical to the current 175, BUT unlike the current event, it actually encourages using one's whole roster.
4. Signal Data should be granted with Crystals for the same accomplishments. Each time you earn a crystal reward, you also earn 4, 3, and 2 signal data respectively, for a grand total of 20 of the easiest signal data, 15 of the middle, and 10 of the hardest per Galactic Challenge event. This is about 1/6th of what's needed of the easiest to reach r7, 1/8th of the middle, and 2/15ths of the hardest.
5. The gear reward should include g12+ and g12 (purple) salvage. The Kyros should not be reduced.
6. However, the gear reward should be split into different tiers and/or feats.
7. First gear reward is for anyone who completes the top tier with 1* and grants 5 purple g12 salvage plus 1 additional purple g12 salvage for each surviving member of your squad.
8. Second gear reward is for anyone who completes the top tier with 3* and grants 3 g12 finisher salvage, 6 g12+ salvage, 9 g12 gold salvage, and 6 more purple g12 salvage.
9. Third gear reward is available for anyone who completes the top tier with 3* using the favored faction. This grants 5 finisher salvage 6 kyros, 3 g12+ salvage, and 6 more purple g12 salvage.
10. Fourth gear reward requires the favored faction using an undersized squad. This grants a Title and/or Profile artwork plus 3 kyro of each type for each slot left empty when entering the battle. This means soloing the Challenge yield an extra 12 kyros of each type, though looking at the difficulty of this event, even at the g12 tier, I don't think this would be possible. Still, maybe someone could pull off a victory with only 2 characters.
Explanation of why the rewards should be like this:
You are also encouraged by the crystal reward to beat the event with at least 4 different single-faction squads and one mixed-faction squad.
The current design encourages people to play each tier one time with the favored squad for max rewards and then move on. Although we've cut 2 tiers, by encouraging players to beat the now-final tier 5 different times using 5 different strategies (or at the very least 4 different strategies and then taking their strongest team that already beat it and swapping out 1 toon, I admit that's a likely fudge for people with very powerful rosters). The mixed-faction squad may seem redundant to high-end players, but it allows lower-end players to engage in theory crafting and creative use of their best toons to at least get something.
Total rewards include approximately 1x full g12 purple piece. Since 2 of these are needed for each and every g12 piece except the finisher, this is only 10% of the purple gear needed for a single toon. It seems like a lot, but it really isn't.
You also get 9 g12+ premiere salvage and 9 g12 gold salvage.
You need 90 g12 salvage for left-hand pieces (these are the Armor Plating & Multi-Tool etc. that require 1x 30) and 80 for right-hand ones (these are the Mk12 Implants and Security Scanners & the like that require 2x 20). So a single character requires 170, and this event provides 5.3% of the requirements for a single toon.
The g12+ salvage (Mk 12 Holo Projectors, Mk12 Stun Guns & the like which require 1x 50) are required in the finisher as well, so you need 150 of them. 9 thus constitutes 6% of the requirements of a single toon.
If you can't beat the event undersized while using the favored faction you get 6 kyros. This is the current reward for r3 and so it becomes slightly easier to get. However, to get 10 more (really 12) you would have to beat the event with a 3-toon squad. This probably does function something very much like an r5 requirement, if not an r7.
Except for the extreme end of Kyro production with someone killing the Galactic Challenge with a single God-toon for 24 bonus Kyros, and except for the g12 finisher salvage (which maxes out at 8/50) we're talking about 5.3% to 10% of the requirements of the different g12 pieces for a single toon during each Galactic Challenge cycle.
If you were waiting for GalChall to provide you with all the g12 gear to relic a toon, you'd have to wait through 19 Galactic Challenges for some gear although it would be as little as 10 for other gear.
This means that Galactic challenges, if run once per week, would provide the gear to upgrade one toon from g12 to g13/relic0 in just over 2 months.
That's an extra 5-6 relic toons per year, assuming that you can always field a g12 squad of the favored faction and defeat the event with that faction getting 3 stars. That's not always going to happen for people. Even end game folks are going to have some underdeveloped factions, so for all but the highest end players, who are probably whaling anyway, you're talking about an extra 0 (for newbies) to 5 extra relic'd toons per year, with 3-4 extra toons relic'd per year being common for high end FtP, people that are currently between 4.5M and 6M gp.
When the current game has just dropped 3 toons requiring 32 relic'd characters between them in the last 6 months as event entry requirements, an extra 3-4 relic toons per YEAR is not too much to ask.
These changes will thus provide measurable, noticeable progress for end-game/non-elite players (3-5 extra toons taken from g12+0 to Relic0 per year) against a backdrop of increasing demands for relic'd toons (32 new toons requiring relics for the 2 GL events and JKL event announced in just the last 6 months) while at the same time adding a mechanic (rewards for beating the event with different factions) that actually accomplishes a stated goal of Galactic Challenges (encouraging people to use their entire roster) and provides more variety of game play (currently you need only defeat the event once with the favored faction to get all the worthwhile rewards, the proposal requires beating the event 5 times and using at least 4 entirely different squads which will necessarily require different strategies) and thus invites more creativity and theorycrafting as well as using the breadth of your roster.
I'm glad you've developed a tool that allows you to produce new content more frequently, but the current incentives to play the event only once and with only one squad, especially combined with a high-relic requirement to qualify to earn the gear that one needs to relic toons, makes this incarnation of GalChallenges fall far short of what they could be and should be.
Would love people to give positive input from people. Key word being “positive”.
My wording was “for tier 1”. I was thinking 1 for tier one, 2 for tier 2, 3 for tier 3,and so on. So if u beat all (and this is clearly hypothetical), it would be 28 shards. Or 11.7 times of beating the event. If they are rotating the 8 or so (I highly doubt any will remain a week long, probably 2-3 days), doesn’t seem that wild of a stretch. Especially if we see each one at least once a month. Hell Getting KAM to 7 stars will take a large portion of guilds over a year so the time frame isn’t too far from what we have grown accustom too.
Bit disappointing but I think I'll take CG at face value on this one. See if they take onboard any feedback and tweak the event after the exhibition. Hopefully.
But do they really need feedback to tell them these rewards are horrible? C'mon. This shows one of two things:
1) They have no idea what players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
2) They don't care what the players want/need in terms of rewards, content, fun, etc.
Where, in the entire history of the Q&A, surveys, previous feedback on events, etc., did any player ever say "Could we please have something like assault battles - but more restrictive, more monotonous, less interesting and with less rewards?"
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I had assumed the gear pieces were effectively placeholders and will be swapped out when the real event gets rolled out.
But I don't disagree with your assessment. The rewards are very poor. I'm just reserving judgement for the time being.