Galactic challenges rewards [MERGE]

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    Kyno wrote: »
    Wow this is a lot of feedback with a lot of suggested changes...

    Does anyone believe cg will listen and change anything?

    Yes they are listening, yes things will change. Yes you will still complain, it's ok, we understand.

    Prove it.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Let's try to keep in mind:

    GAC went through this exhibition and came out with a store. They already mentioned this in the post as a possibility.

    This time period is meant to be a test run.

    The length of time that is being used and changed throughout the runs is intentional for information and data gathering.

    The number and type of feats we see are all subject to change and has been mentioned that they will be limited in this run.

    "Why did it take this long?" - this was built from scratch with all new tools and built in a way to be more flexible. This run is also probably ment to be a test of some of that background stuff.

    Let's try to keep all of this and other stuff in mind as we try to produce constructive feedback.

    Then CG needs to COMMUNICATE that they are seeing all the feedback. They need to respond after an internal meeting and acknowledge that after listening to us, the buggiest changes the community wants to see are, X, Y and Z.
    Then they can ask the community what they think is fair, balanced, what features they want to see added later on, etc. Actively working with their player base would go a loooooooong way.

    They did communicate that. Repeating doesnt make it more true.

    If you read through the comments it doesnt seem they need to ask any direct questions and generally speaking you get better feedback when you dotn try to narrow the scope.
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    Kyno wrote: »

    Yes they are listening, yes things will change. Yes you will still complain, it's ok, we understand.

    You do have an attitude for a moderator...

  • TVF
    36707 posts Member
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    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Let's try to keep in mind:

    GAC went through this exhibition and came out with a store. They already mentioned this in the post as a possibility.

    This time period is meant to be a test run.

    The length of time that is being used and changed throughout the runs is intentional for information and data gathering.

    The number and type of feats we see are all subject to change and has been mentioned that they will be limited in this run.

    "Why did it take this long?" - this was built from scratch with all new tools and built in a way to be more flexible. This run is also probably ment to be a test of some of that background stuff.

    Let's try to keep all of this and other stuff in mind as we try to produce constructive feedback.

    Then CG needs to COMMUNICATE that they are seeing all the feedback. They need to respond after an internal meeting and acknowledge that after listening to us, the buggiest changes the community wants to see are, X, Y and Z.
    Then they can ask the community what they think is fair, balanced, what features they want to see added later on, etc. Actively working with their player base would go a loooooooong way.

    Carrie says hi.

    For all the flack she took, communication was better when she was EP and at least she didn't hide behind her community manager. I didn't love the direction the game took under her lead, but now we have worse direction and less communication. All the Marks of incompetence.

    I see what you did there.

    I'm saying that communication might be where it is now precisely because of what happened when Carrie was in charge.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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    TVF wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Let's try to keep in mind:

    GAC went through this exhibition and came out with a store. They already mentioned this in the post as a possibility.

    This time period is meant to be a test run.

    The length of time that is being used and changed throughout the runs is intentional for information and data gathering.

    The number and type of feats we see are all subject to change and has been mentioned that they will be limited in this run.

    "Why did it take this long?" - this was built from scratch with all new tools and built in a way to be more flexible. This run is also probably ment to be a test of some of that background stuff.

    Let's try to keep all of this and other stuff in mind as we try to produce constructive feedback.

    Then CG needs to COMMUNICATE that they are seeing all the feedback. They need to respond after an internal meeting and acknowledge that after listening to us, the buggiest changes the community wants to see are, X, Y and Z.
    Then they can ask the community what they think is fair, balanced, what features they want to see added later on, etc. Actively working with their player base would go a loooooooong way.

    Carrie says hi.

    For all the flack she took, communication was better when she was EP and at least she didn't hide behind her community manager. I didn't love the direction the game took under her lead, but now we have worse direction and less communication. All the Marks of incompetence.

    I see what you did there.

    I'm saying that communication might be where it is now precisely because of what happened when Carrie was in charge.

    I hope the lesson ea/cg took from her time in charge was not to ever talk to the community. That seems like a bad idea for a game like this.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Yes they are listening, yes things will change. Yes you will still complain, it's ok, we understand.

    You do have an attitude for a moderator...

    I was just offering support and understanding to a friend in need. We can all try understand what each other is going through right now.
  • HK22
    645 posts Member
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    I've tried to skim the conversation so that I would actually be adding something of value to the conversation.

    Rewards:
    My suggestion would be to to make Tiers 1-4 for newer player up to fresh level 85. These tiers rewards at least 5 character shards for the highlighted faction, improved credits/gear, and levels 1-2 of mod slicing materials.
    Tier 5 rewards would switch to Raid exclusive gear plus high need gear like MK5 Droid Callers, MK Stun Guns, etc. with stage 3 mod slicing materials
    Tier 6 - This tier would reward omegas, zeta mats, stage four slicing mats, and both types of kyros.
    Tier 7 - This tier would reward crystals, relic materials, signal data, and the gold slicing mats.

    Feats:
    A great addition for newer players or players that missed out would be the return of GAC feats/titles as reward challenges for Galactic Challenges. The challenge would be the exact same as it was during the GAC run and you get some credits and the title/portrait. Great way to reward collectors that may have missed one or newer players that didn't have the opportunity to get it.
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    Feedback: I don't find Galactic challenges engaging.

    First, this really isn't a puzzle format. If the modifier tells you it's Sith vs. Separatists, you're going to go Sith. Also, this format doesn't feel like it liberates my roster. It feels like instead of allowing users to come up with unique theorycrafted teams, it all comes down to faction tags.

    Second, the battles are very stale. Very generic teams with just ramped up difficulty. I would prefer to experience unique encounters. Galactic Challenges would be a great way to introduce solo raid bosses with unique abilities and cutscenes. The unique encounters could also be just iconic fights within the star wars universe, like when we fought Calo Nord in Darth Revan's journey event. Giving us a unique encounter would be more of a puzzle as we have to learn new abilities that the opposing team has.

    Third, the rewards structure does not incentivize engagement. If a player sees that they are ineligible to receive meaningful rewards, there's not much reason to play the event. Having the events last 7 days, while the rewards do not refresh everyday, creates long lengths of time where players are again not engaging in Galactic challenges.

    I am hopeful for the future of Galactic challenges and its implementation. Your consideration on these issues would be greatly appreciated.
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    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I like it. I wish the feat rewards that don't involve the primary faction were better, though.

    As to length, I'm ambivalent so long as it runs at least Friday through Sunday. The prime determinant for me is that it be available over the weekend when I've got the most time. If the rewards--or at least some aspect of the rewards--refreshed daily it would matter more. But since it's all one-and-done (maybe a second try to pick up the extra feat) it doesn't matter how long it runs so long as it's over a weekend. I also think it'll be like TB in that halving the duration of the event isn't going to increase the number of events run, so in that case you may as well keep it at 7 days--as I said, I'll just play it on the weekend, but some other folks might have different schedules and their prime days may differ, so I'm not going to inconvenience them for my own gain. A week-long event is fine.

    Also..... Okay. And this is maybe just me. But can we do these with less-popular factions? I want a reason to use jawas or ewoks or scoundrels or whatever. Sith are super popular so lots of people have those, rebels and jedi will be the same. But reward folks who have made their own choices instead of simply chasing metas.

    Anyway. Yeah, I like it. Haven't been able to complete all of this, but that's fine. Something to build towards is always appreciated.

    Good luck to anyone trying to sell you on new content being only playable if you relic your jawas.

    You can do each tier with any squad. You could 3* this entire event without using a single Sith.

    Wasn’t the point speedy was trying to make. He was suggesting using less used factions for the reward reqs....to reward those that didn’t Chase the meta.
    No, that’s what I said. I literally used those words about rewarding people who made their own choices instead of following the meta :p
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Yes they are listening, yes things will change. Yes you will still complain, it's ok, we understand.

    You do have an attitude for a moderator...

    Good. I like mods that don’t take guff. People talk a big talk on a forum thinking no one is going to clap back. Talk stupid, get treated stupid.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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    @Sorathix666
    First, this really isn't a puzzle format. If the modifier tells you it's Sith vs. Separatists, you're going to go Sith.

    ...Giving us a unique encounter would be more of a puzzle as we have to learn new abilities that the opposing team has.
    +1

    The only real "puzzle" aspect was figuring out that Traya's dispel costing 5% health was more cost-effective in the long run than letting the DoTs pile up. That wasn't much of a puzzle.

    But also, I just want to say that SWGOH doesn't do "puzzles" well. Starforge Showdown (the Malak event) was the best puzzle-like event we've had, and it didn't do much in providing clues to what you should do during the combat. So instead of learning from playing, you learn from taking a defeat and then reading all the ability descriptions to figure out where they might create synergies that help or hurt you. Permitting Malak to gain Crit Immunity turned out to be a good thing, because the consequences of criting against Malak were worse than dishing out reduced damage.

    To make a real playable puzzle mode, rather than one that requires more reading than playing, you would have to have a flash graphic: Crit! Malak Gains X! hit the screen for a moment. Then playing the game you'd have a chance to notice, "Whoops, every time I crit against Malak, I get hurt more than Malak does!" But with crazy assists and counters etc. from Zaalbar & Mission, you couldn't really see in-game what was triggering Malak's behavior. After allot here was also another effect that triggered when crossing the 50% health threshold. If you have crits that cause him to cross that threshold, how is the casual player supposed to know exactly which mechanic caused which effect?

    Now, I'm not saying reading is a bad thing (I LOVE READING), but reading is very different from playing a video game. I think puzzle battles, if they really want to be puzzle battles, should provide notice (not just clues) in the graphics when an event-related ability or bonus or penalty is triggered. I'm perfectly willing to read, but I don't necessarily want to read everything. I've got books for my reading.

    So I'm all for more complicated puzzles, but if they make puzzle-battles, I want the actual battle to provide a better understanding of what's happening to the player, so that they can learn by doing.
    Also, this format doesn't feel like it liberates my roster. It feels like instead of allowing users to come up with unique theorycrafted teams, it all comes down to faction tags.

    Yep. This doesn't encourage diversity. It encourages the opposite.

    Now, it MIGHT encourage diversity even if each challenge allowed you to get full rewards by using only one faction, but ONLY if the rewards were high enough that people actually wanted to gear up toons just for their use in the Gal Challenges. That requires a far better ROI.

    So while a player might benefit from having 5 relic'd toon in every faction, the challenge itself doesn't encourage that. It only rewards it after the fact, in a tiny way, that provides no encouragement to those who haven't gotten a particular faction relic'd as of yet.

    There is no encouraging diversity in this game mode.
    Second, the battles are very stale. Very generic teams with just ramped up difficulty.

    I disagree. The +50 damage or whatever is, indeed, stale with just ramped up difficulty. But the Sandstorm mechanic really does change things. GL Rey, for instance, takes HUGE damage from those DoTs if she can't cleanse them.

    This is particularly meaningful for Sith, and Sith were the Favored Faction remember, because they have very little debuff-cleansing power.

    I would prefer to experience unique encounters.

    Well, sure. We all would. I would rather have had 2 unique things, the DoTs and something else unique, rather than the unique DoT mechanic and then a boring power-buff for the droids. That said, this was a bit different, and for a first attempt I'm not seeing too much trouble.

    Sure, I hope they get better in the future. If their well of creativity runs dry, that's a real problem, but we don't know yet whether they'll get more creative as they get more experience or whether they'll run out of ideas.

    I prefer to save this criticism for later, when we have a better idea of whether their imagination is failing them or not.

    Galactic Challenges would be a great way to introduce solo raid bosses with unique abilities and cutscenes.

    Yep! I'd love a one-person raid where you can use as many squads as you want, but you can't use any character twice. The rewards do not reset (you have to wait for a new GalChallenge), but your ability to use a character resets once a day at midnight, so if you couldn't kill the mini-raid the first day, you can try again the 2nd.

    The raid should have multiple tiers, like current GalChallenges, with "use of a character" counted separately at each tier, so using Malak in t1 on day 1 still allows you to use Malak on t2 while it's still day 1.

    The unique encounters could also be just iconic fights within the star wars universe, like when we fought Calo Nord in Darth Revan's journey event.

    I don't mind this every once in a while, but remember that GalChallenges was going to be a way to use more of our roster (the "depth and breadth" of it, to use CG's language). To recreate iconic battles, you need very specific characters. That's not going to reward diversity of roster. THat's going to reward gearing up the most iconic characters, because part of what makes them iconic characters is their participation in iconic battles.

    So this suggestion is in conflict with your first criticism about not using enough diversity of roster.

    i think this could easily be done every once in a while (maybe 1x/month?) but making it a more regular part of the game would both quickly exhaust the available iconic battles AND penalize investment in the many, many characters in the game who were NOT featured in an iconic movie or TV battle.




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    Btw i have read from several resources that relic requirement might be to stop cheaters to grab it. Well if that is really case, cant you just make it that you need 1 relic 3/5 character?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    A few comments removed, let's try to stay on topic. Thank you.
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    Well, usually I try to finish each and every tires for some stuff... but most of “challenges” rewards I skipped - they don’t worth time playing, even on auto.
    Grey gear, seriously? I’d better spend one sim ticket, if I even need one.
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    4363 posts Member
    edited August 2020
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    Why do krackens get shafted on rewards for having too many toons above R5, which prevents them from collecting on the best rewards? I get you’re attempting to spur folks to relic further, but it makes absolutely zero sense you’re not rewarding those who have factions above specific relics. I got lucky and was able to pull together enough R5 to get the last tiers best rewards, but many of my kind are getting the shaft.

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    SnakesOnAPlane
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    The wording is flawed. It's actually specified gear/relic level or greater.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Why do krackens get shafted on rewards for having too many toons above R5, which prevents them from collecting on the best rewards? I get you’re attempting to spur folks to relic further, but it makes absolutely zero sense you’re not rewarding those who have factions above specific relics. I got lucky and was able to pull together enough R5 to get the last tiers best rewards, but many of my kind are getting the shaft.

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    Huh? Doesnt that pic show you getting rewards for that feat?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    ZAP wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Why do krackens get shafted on rewards for having too many toons above R5, which prevents them from collecting on the best rewards? I get you’re attempting to spur folks to relic further, but it makes absolutely zero sense you’re not rewarding those who have factions above specific relics. I got lucky and was able to pull together enough R5 to get the last tiers best rewards, but many of my kind are getting the shaft.

    u1pjgfxoluoe.png
    703a45sikp9q.png

    Huh? Doesnt that pic show you getting rewards for that feat?

    He said he got the feat

    My bad misread that.
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    Look at the schedule it only gets worse

    Relic 5 up your Old Republic team
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    If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.
    If it's another reason, like motivate players to gear up characters, then i may not like it, but at least i understand.
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    If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.

    This. Why hurt the vast majority of great people who play the game? Cheaters are still gonna cheat.
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    If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.

    This. Why hurt the vast majority of great people who play the game? Cheaters are still gonna cheat.

    Especially when they don't get punished for it.
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
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    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.

    This. Why hurt the vast majority of great people who play the game? Cheaters are still gonna cheat.

    Especially when they don't get punished for it.

    Cant lose that money.....
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    ShaggyB wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    If (big if) the relic gate is to prevent cheating, please stop. I may be alone here, but i'd rather have a better gaming experience even if it allows some cheater to have extra rewards.

    This. Why hurt the vast majority of great people who play the game? Cheaters are still gonna cheat.

    Especially when they don't get punished for it.

    Cant lose that money.....

    Policing for a profit?
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    Why is this the reward for the highest tier of the mode, for going against a squad that can one shot any toon in the game before you get a turn

    If you manage to overcome all these difficulties (hence the challenge) why do you reward absolute rubbish, where’s the incentive

    And please don’t say other players need that reward, it’s 100% proven that anyone who CAN get this reward DOESN'T need it

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    Lordsmorg wrote: »
    And please don’t say other players need that reward, it’s 100% proven that anyone who CAN get this reward DOESN'T need it
    Where is it proven?
  • UdalCuain
    5038 posts Member
    edited August 2020
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    I see a long list of characters under both those screenshots that need that piece of gear...

    I'll always take Scavenger stuff. For me the incentive is the challenge. If yoh don't feel its worth your while then don't go for that undersized feat.
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    I don't mind this every once in a while, but remember that GalChallenges was going to be a way to use more of our roster (the "depth and breadth" of it, to use CG's language). To recreate iconic battles, you need very specific characters. That's not going to reward diversity of roster. THat's going to reward gearing up the most iconic characters, because part of what makes them iconic characters is their participation in iconic battles.

    So this suggestion is in conflict with your first criticism about not using enough diversity of roster.

    i think this could easily be done every once in a while (maybe 1x/month?) but making it a more regular part of the game would both quickly exhaust the available iconic battles AND penalize investment in the many, many characters in the game who were NOT featured in an iconic movie or TV battle.

    I appreciate all the feedback you gave regarding my own feedback! Yeah, I can see how it is a contradiction with my initial criticism. I think initially, I was just stuck on the idea that this game mode was designed to give players more use out of their roster. Considering the versatility and frequency of the events, having faction/unit specific events could be engaging. Like the developers said, I am starting to see how galactic challenges really opens up events that they can push out.

    Hopefully, galactic challenges won't just be a cookie cutter faction vs. faction with modifiers type of mode.

    Hopefully it'll rotate around events like:

    Faction vs. Faction events. I think this is an excellent opportunity to introduce new types of battles within swgoh that aren't just 5v5. Not sure about the implementation, but I think it would be incredible to feel like I was in an epic battle. Perhaps the clone trooper attack on the Jedi temple, or Wookies (in reference to the recent Wookie tag that was removed with Threepio) vs. Separatist droids on Kashyyyk, or Separatist droids vs (event only) Gungans on Naboo.

    Unit specific events, such as iconic battles within the Star Wars universe. The difference between iconic battles and the faction battles is that the iconic battles would be more personal based, such as Anakin vs. Kenobi, Old ben vs. Vader, CLS vs. Vader, etc.

    Open roster events, such as unique encounters and solo raids. Unique encounters could be like a battle against Jabba the Hutt lead with bounty hunters, or robot legs Maul.

    I think that swgoh's main area of weakness is that nearly all of its battles are oriented around 2 sides playing on one field (instanced fights taking place on 1-8 stages, ships-assault battles, respectively), whether it's 3v3, or 5v5 (or 6 with summoned units). Raids are really the only type of battle that don't fall into this category. Considering that CG has discussed the possibility of adding vehicles to the game, if it's another *Place x units/vehicles to go against y units/vehicles* then it will only add onto the already stale modes (in my opinion, adding modifiers to the battle does not bring forth a new enough experience). I think that's part of the reason as to why engagement in ships has struggled since day one. Hopefully galactic challenges provides CG with the means of testing out new forms of content outside of squad vs. squad battles.
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