Is SLKR too Strong or is SEE too Weak?

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This was definitely an interesting one to see:

What I’ve took from this video is;

1. SLKR is capable of soloing a SEE team paired up with SE / Vader (top tier non-GL DS characters)

- Probably has a bit of rng to it but definitely seems like it’s a fair win rate

2. SEE and his team doesn’t have enough damage output (on defense) to beat SLKR.

3. SEE isn’t capable of reaching his ultimate because he needs 2 characters to use link (which means he doesn’t gain +8% ultimate charge due to a lack of linked characters)

It’s perfectly fine that the newest galactic legends can be countered by previous ones. However, it’s a big of an issue when it appears that there’s a chance a full galactic legend team can be soloed by one character.

Replies

  • SEE autos JML
    JML autod Kylo
    Kylo autos SEE
    The 1v5 is unique to SEE because it means he can’t use link, meaning he barely gets any ult charge and ulting wouldn’t do much anyway, I expect that a way will be found for SEE to beat a 5 man Kylo team with a 5 man SEE team
  • SemiGod
    2084 posts Member
    edited October 15
    Expected nothing less from Ben Swolo
    Post edited by SemiGod on
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    edited October 15
    SLKR got buffed pretty good, yet even without all the perma-advantage stuff, he's pretty strong and can self-cleanse but the issue seems to be SEE is pretty weak.

    Aside from the prot-drain gimmick, he's too slow, doesn't do much damage (even on offense), is super-reliant on link (which doesn't negate GL damage and won't work if there aren't two enemies around) and his ultimate (if it's possible for him to get to it) kinda just annihilates two NPCs (often in the time that DN could annihilate twice).

    Edit: I checked out the damage multipliers on SEE's first special and basic (which he uses a lot since he doesn't have an equivalent to SLKR's AOE) compared to SLKR's 2x-3x hit basic and stab and... well the SEE damage isn't looking too good on that end lol. That's not necessarily his character style though, and anyway more damage likely wouldn't fix him just not doing much
    Post edited by dgree on
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    See is too weak. Link needs to work on one character, his damage pre ultimate needs to be increased and he needs to do a better job of making his teammates harder to kill.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Amazing. CG introduces a character with an ability targeting exactly two enemies and it somehow doesn't occur to them that players will try to break it by using only one character. Players will always try to break it, that's, like, the first rule of game design.
    Isn't this intentional, though? The idea of link is that two enemies are linked together.

    The unfortunate parts are that SEE will never get to ultimate without it, and that his leadership and abilities in general are pretty weak so a squad with him in it gets destroyed by SLKR. If you took SEE out of this team and replaced him with someone useful it would probably be fine, at least on offense.
  • Ultra
    6696 posts Member
    SemiGod wrote: »
    Doni12 wrote: »
    SEE autos JML
    JML autod Kylo
    Kylo autos SEE
    The 1v5 is unique to SEE because it means he can’t use link, meaning he barely gets any ult charge and ulting wouldn’t do much anyway, I expect that a way will be found for SEE to beat a 5 man Kylo team with a 5 man SEE team

    F in the chat for Rey 😂
    Rey is the only GL (afaik) that can beat all GLs on offense
  • Nauros wrote: »
    Amazing. CG introduces a character with an ability targeting exactly two enemies and it somehow doesn't occur to them that players will try to break it by using only one character. Players will always try to break it, that's, like, the first rule of game design.

    Who in the right mind would wanna solo a GL? Honestly and SEE doesn't have the ulti yet. It is the same argument that GML is too weak against SEE. Wait for the ultimate. Wait for the correct team composition.

    Now is too early to say SEE is too weak etc. Cause SLK has a lot of difficulty against GML
  • False Dichotomy
    It's both
    And with the new Prot Regen Timeout Strat SEE can't beat JML, the one thing he was designed to do

    Kylo is his own tier of character
    Until he is nerfed CGs options are to bloat kits or continue to ignore it

    Without a powerhouse character with sustainability, SEE will be useless
    The problem is, any Sith will be Dark Side and therefore be pluggable into Kylo
  • TheMaster12345
    604 posts Member
    edited October 16
    Nauros wrote: »
    Amazing. CG introduces a character with an ability targeting exactly two enemies and it somehow doesn't occur to them that players will try to break it by using only one character. Players will always try to break it, that's, like, the first rule of game design.

    Less is more. If you use one characters (SLKR) vs SEE then you can get more banners in GAC at the price of saving yourself another ok squad. It's a win win.
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    SEE is suppose to be that mastermind in the background making his subordinates do his dirty work... But his kit screws over his own team and he throws farts at his enemies that do nothing

    They said he would manipulate the enemy team and force them to do things they didnt want to, but the only manipulation he has is his deception, which only makes enemies unable to target him (which Mon Mothma does permanently on her unique) and which is pretty lackluster considering the recommended team uses a bunch of taunting tanks anyways, and his link which punishes 2 targets for taking turns. The only real manipulation is that he causes enemies to charge his Ultimate, but so does Rey without inflicting people with a bunch of gimmicky debuffs.
  • From an external point of view (dont own SEE but had to fight him). I will say he is too much tanky for an attacker (he is much more tanky than jml without the wat thing, total nonsense) but he is too weak in offense and don't give enough help to his teammates. It is like they are only meatbags waiting to die. But his ultimate seems really really devastating.
  • TVF
    25694 posts Member
    edited October 16
    nvm, misread
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gifafi
    4995 posts Member
    we want rock paper scissors, they said.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    we want rock paper scissors, they said.

    This feels more like rock, paper, broadsword.
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    edited October 16
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    we want rock paper scissors, they said.

    This feels more like rock, paper, broadsword.

    I was going to say rock, paper, chainsaw but it feels more like one of those big executioner’s war axes. The ones that you just know are inevitably going to slam down on your neck and there is nothing you can do about it.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 16
    JML when he goes into his ult lowers his ability cooldowns. nothing is more FUN AND ENGAGING then having a character with a 2 turn AB on a cooldown of 2 turns.. oh hes faster then you. JML feels more disruptive then SEE who's supposedly the "Master Manipulator"

    Once they fix his AI JML will be fine and do great things. he's already anoying people in my arena shard and is overly obnoxious for SLKR to get through. Reys are even having trouble.
  • Fhoenix wrote: »
    Everyone please calm down he is finely tuned.. I will link some gameplay footage of my own SEE reaching his unlimited power:

    cgv277nxbv4x.gif

    This is more accurate then anything I could even type up. This is the perfect visual representation of SEEs current state.
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    Fhoenix wrote: »
    Everyone please calm down he is finely tuned.. I will link some gameplay footage of my own SEE reaching his unlimited power:

    cgv277nxbv4x.gif

    This is more accurate then anything I could even type up. This is the perfect visual representation of SEEs current state.

    @Shiryu I agree, maybe we can I dunno.. make JML the tank rely on taking damage, aggravating him, and charging up his ultimate, and then make SEE the Attacker gain ultimate charges by going full offense.. then after rework the gif above would instead be supercharges and his Ultimate post swap would make it more like:

    ixnoz96bzbfi.gif
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 17
    Well SEE problem is that his deception... does nothing. Its a worse mon mothma zeta and worse then the daze debuff.

    If targets that had deception on them also had -50% defense signifying that their weakness is exposed from the secretive mastermind... or that deception made all targets immune to TM gain.. as Palps plans not only affected jedi and rebels.. but EVERYONE and EVERYTHING.

    SEE unfortunately is just that old relative that refuses to pass on and anoys the family with ramblings
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    SEE kit in action is probably underwhelming, but Deceived doesn't "do nothing"-- it prevents enemies from targeting SEE. Otherwise the Jedi offensive titan team could immediately swarm SEE and I don't think he'd seem that tanky at that point before he stacks protection. But that prot thing is basically his one gimmick.

    The idea behind shock is to prevent regen/cleansing in other GLs, presumably especially SLKR who can self-cleanse--like one of those awful 1v1 GAS duels but you have a better chance of winning. But by that point, *if* SEE even gets to ultimate, SLKR without ultimate is doing 3x SEE's damage or more.
  • dgree wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Amazing. CG introduces a character with an ability targeting exactly two enemies and it somehow doesn't occur to them that players will try to break it by using only one character. Players will always try to break it, that's, like, the first rule of game design.
    Isn't this intentional, though? The idea of link is that two enemies are linked together.

    The unfortunate parts are that SEE will never get to ultimate without it, and that his leadership and abilities in general are pretty weak so a squad with him in it gets destroyed by SLKR. If you took SEE out of this team and replaced him with someone useful it would probably be fine, at least on offense.

    Has to be wai.

    Think about it...

    Mace could have killed palpatine but then Anakin had to be there and because it was 2v1 Palp won.
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    SEE is way to weak.

    In all my testing with him (no ult so far but I've watched others with it and most agree) he just is lack luster in every regard.

    1. His Damage. It tickles the enemy. Even after 4 minutes of "gaining mastery" his damage doesn't go up by much. My treya with 3k less offense hits almost as hard as my SEE. For being an "attacker" he doesn't do anything. Having mastery that gives accuracy is basicly wasted.
    2. His Utility. Sure being untargetable by deceived enemies is nice and they being unable to counter attack is also nice... but thats it. His protection drain doesn't do much when most characters now days mod for, and have a ton, of health. He has no other debuffs besides that until you use his ult and only then you just get shock. However by using his ult you also remove his protection recovery and his tankiness hits the floor.
    3. His Kit. Now you ask why this is a point? Its unique and very thematic... however it completely contradicts itself. His ability to prevent linked targets from criting is great... until you realize now malak can't fear since he is not being crit. (also means he can't taunt as much) Sion, the next best tank, has somewhat lackluster tanking stats in compensation for being able to revive... which now he flat out can't do under SEE... Most sith are based off health and health effects. Such as sion or even the newer Sith Empire being mostly health based. So while regaining 50% protection is great.. it does nothing for Malak, DN, and most of the other sith. It stops half an ability.
    4. The quality of Sith. In general Sith are all about being tanky and using control and debuffs to offset how slow they are and their lack of damage (ignoring Sith empire units). However top jedi have almost double the damage (hi gas), better debuffs (looking at you GML and JKL), and better utility (JKR, hyoda, ect). Besides the "top" sith we have trash like Sid, maul, savage, sassy ect.

    TLDR, SEE is super lackluster and honestly needs help / work. Deceived enemies should also suffer more of an effect in addition to not being able to counter or just give him some actual debuffs.

    For how much trash we had to gear to get SEE he shouldn't be the worst of the GLs by such a large margin.
    SLKR solos the entire team
    He times out to rey, or wins at such a massive loss of characters
    And while he's good against JML, that will change when JML ai get fixed. Just makes JML faster then SEE and hit a 2 turn AB against the sith team. SEE can't use link if hes AB they won't do anything until one of them dies or it wears off. by that time the JML team has control over the battle.

    This. I have been so disappointed with SEE’s performance. I feel like he definitely is not gaining damage like he is supposed to, and the fact that he can be soloed by Kylo, one of the old GL’s makes me extremely upset. His kit really is lackluster, and needs some serious additions. Right now SEE feels like a beefed up Darth Revan tier team, and that is just embarrassing.
  • Poopfist wrote: »
    Right now SEE feels like a beefed up Darth Revan tier team, and that is just embarrassing.

    Please don't call SEE "Darth Revan tier". Darth Revan can control enemies, boost his squad's damage and speed with ferocity, and can kill SLKR.
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