[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

Replies

  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    I think the gear crunch won't be fixed since it makes so much money but how about giving more crystals for completing dailies? Someone not at the top of both arenas (the majority of players) hardly can afford regular energy refreshes and certainly not the super expensive gear. An extra 200 crystals for completing dailies would let ftp feel like they can buy gear occasionally but wouldn't be enough for spenders who want things now.
    200 extra crystals a day would only amount to one piece of gear a week. That wouldn't be enough to significantly ease the gear grind but I think ftp would feel like they have more ability to progress key characters.
    Another option would be to cut gear prices by 50% but that would certainly hurt the games profits.

    I think they talked about moving crystals away from arena some time ago, but it's obviously not happening. Funny how player-friendly changes often get talked about and forgotten...

    Moving crystal income out of arena is player friendly? .... interesting.

    Moving more crystal rewards to Conquest, GAC, TBs, TW, Assault Battles, GL events etc. would indeed be more player friendly. Not everyone has the opportunity and time to climb in arena for over an hour daily (at a specific payout time)…If these other modes offered some crystals (in some cases offered more than currently), then yes that would be player friendly. If crystals are also taken away from arena, then no the move is not player friendly. I say this as someone who climbs to top spots in arena/fleet arena daily.

    I think even taking some away from arena and putting it elsewhere would be player friendly, as long as the overall income doesn't decrease. As you said, not everyone has the time for arena and not everyone finds it fun, it makes no sense for it to be the single most prominent source of premium currency.

    A change like that would be different, not necessarily better or more player friendly. Not having time is an issue expressed for most if not all other game modes by some segment of the player base, especially PvPs.

    In a meta game, it does make perfect sense, but that doesnt mean it's going to be liked by everyone.

    There's a significant difference between not having time in general and not having time during a specific time every day, don't try to confuse the issue. And concentrating crystal income in arena makes this issue worse, hence my opinion that moving it to other places would be player friendly (if it isn't actually a stealth nerf).
    And nothing will ever be liked by everyone, so I'm not sure what is the point of your last sentence.

    Agree, but you can move your time to better suit your situation, and balance how many attacks (time spent) vs possible income. Other game modes dont really have that option.

    You can't balance time spent vs. rewards in, say, Conquest? Interesting.

    Trading one for one, is different, not necessarily better, and going from PvP to PvE for that would not really be too player friendly. (Conquest was not around at the time of the discussion you are using to make jabs at the dev team)

    And I'm not the one of the ones that complains about time in game for any game mode, but yes the complaint has come up.
  • Konju
    1127 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Is there a way to listen to the podcast from yesterday? I find it likely that something outside of this Road Ahead announcement was stated and would be interested to hear it. Thanks.

    Or even better, a text version. Getting a bit tired of everything being a podcast or video.

    Yes both. Good point. I prefer video and audio sources, but English is not everyone’s first language. Thanks for the addition.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
  • TVF
    31103 posts Member
    Doja is the lead?

    Good thing I only zeta'd Crumb's unique.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • artusa wrote: »
    So when you say GL vs Gl you mean 1 on 1 right ? So FO vs Resis and all the side toons are gone and it comes down to Rey vs SLKR. Well I have news for you, neither FO, Resis, and full Sith can beat JMK /CAT. For those 3 teams to work we need to mix and match them with counters. How is that balanced ? The only team that can reliably beat JMKCAT is JML with Jedi (pre nerf). How about fixing that ? Make it so that a full Resis team is viable. Give all the GL's viable teams that can beat each other and not force peoples hands to create counters.

    Why not leave the counters in place and fix the new toons that are causing "balance problems?"

    That seems like the answer 90+% want, but these mysterious balance issues only seem to warrant getting rid of the old toons that people have already built. Odd that none of the new toons that people are buying gear for are being addressed, given that they are the ones that made balance unstable in the first place...
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    I think the gear crunch won't be fixed since it makes so much money but how about giving more crystals for completing dailies? Someone not at the top of both arenas (the majority of players) hardly can afford regular energy refreshes and certainly not the super expensive gear. An extra 200 crystals for completing dailies would let ftp feel like they can buy gear occasionally but wouldn't be enough for spenders who want things now.
    200 extra crystals a day would only amount to one piece of gear a week. That wouldn't be enough to significantly ease the gear grind but I think ftp would feel like they have more ability to progress key characters.
    Another option would be to cut gear prices by 50% but that would certainly hurt the games profits.

    I think they talked about moving crystals away from arena some time ago, but it's obviously not happening. Funny how player-friendly changes often get talked about and forgotten...

    Moving crystal income out of arena is player friendly? .... interesting.

    Moving more crystal rewards to Conquest, GAC, TBs, TW, Assault Battles, GL events etc. would indeed be more player friendly. Not everyone has the opportunity and time to climb in arena for over an hour daily (at a specific payout time)…If these other modes offered some crystals (in some cases offered more than currently), then yes that would be player friendly. If crystals are also taken away from arena, then no the move is not player friendly. I say this as someone who climbs to top spots in arena/fleet arena daily.

    I think even taking some away from arena and putting it elsewhere would be player friendly, as long as the overall income doesn't decrease. As you said, not everyone has the time for arena and not everyone finds it fun, it makes no sense for it to be the single most prominent source of premium currency.

    A change like that would be different, not necessarily better or more player friendly. Not having time is an issue expressed for most if not all other game modes by some segment of the player base, especially PvPs.

    In a meta game, it does make perfect sense, but that doesnt mean it's going to be liked by everyone.

    There's a significant difference between not having time in general and not having time during a specific time every day, don't try to confuse the issue. And concentrating crystal income in arena makes this issue worse, hence my opinion that moving it to other places would be player friendly (if it isn't actually a stealth nerf).
    And nothing will ever be liked by everyone, so I'm not sure what is the point of your last sentence.

    Agree, but you can move your time to better suit your situation, and balance how many attacks (time spent) vs possible income. Other game modes dont really have that option.

    You can move your time in Arena only 2x a year. The other modes mentioned have much more variable time. The amount of time can still be an issue for some (myself included), but there is 24 hrs available for these other modes if not longer.

    Yes, GAC as an example, you do have 24 hours, but you basically have to do a number of attacks based on your opponents, much like arena, to win, and its win or lose, arena at least has tiers of income.

    I am not defending anything, just pointing out that different =/= better or player friendly. More does, as we can all agree.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    edited July 27
    Konju wrote: »
    Is there a way to listen to the podcast from yesterday? I find it likely that something outside of this Road Ahead announcement was stated and would be interested to hear it. Thanks.

    I am asking/looking around for it.

    Also, announced may be a strong word for any information coming out there, but I didnt listen yet.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Doja is the lead?

    Good thing I only zeta'd Crumb's unique.

    Until they nerf Doja's ultimate. 🤣
  • Nick_74
    51 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried
  • @kyno Yes sorry, i mispelt it as Kyro and then on my way to the car after I posted it im like "**** did I call him Kylo ? I hope not!"

    So i mistakenly thought I called you the wrong name (kylo) which was actually Kyro which was supposed to be Kyno :smile:

    Sorry for the mistake, thanks for the quick reply to my post greatly appreciated.
  • I suppose my main question is are we still in clone was era content or is LV ending that? I would love to see some more clone wars marquees to fill out teams. For example if we had 2 more clones we could have 3 teams in Gac. We could have shaak w misc clones, gas 501st, and bad batch. Loved the video format though!
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    If Crumb's post and the podcast are all the replies we're getting, then I'm not sure I've learned anything new since the announcement. And if that is the only response we're getting, bummer.

    Kyno, you keep repeating answers we've already heard. The problem is that their answer is not good enough, not that we haven't seen it. Those same words could be used to justify a nerf to GLs and a boost to the counters. We have not seen, because they have not shared, anything tangible to back up their claims. And many of us don't trust them because their responses often seem detached from our experience as players.

    This is why I'm so bothered by them muzzling these supposedly prominent play testers. If every die hard SWGOH player's favorite content creator could say, "I've seen these changes implemented on the test server. I know it sounds like a lot, but trust me, it won't be as bad as it sounds." Then you wouldn't have a community uproar. But from a group that thought cPit 1.0 was acceptable? Well I have no faith in them.

    If you think they are dishonest, no answers will ever be enough. They are not likely to share direct values or details.

    I'm not sure of a single game that has a beta program and allows those players to speak about the testing done. They dont need your faith.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.
  • Konju
    1127 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Is there a way to listen to the podcast from yesterday? I find it likely that something outside of this Road Ahead announcement was stated and would be interested to hear it. Thanks.

    I am asking/looking around for it.

    Also, announced may be a strong word for any information coming out there, but I didnt listen yet.

    Thanks for looking for it. My usage of “announcement” was only in regard to the dev post and video available on the forums. I think there might just be some tidbits in the podcast I have yet to hear, nothing official.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.
  • artusa
    175 posts Member

    Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.

    GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.


    I have to ask, where in the world was this sentiment that squads should only be counterable by another squad with similar resource requirements when players were asking for a buff to SEE? It hasn't even been six months since we were told that SEE is fine as is and didn't need any kit changes in spite of the fact that it was already well known that Troopers could beat him, even before the addition of Dark Trooper to the game. Now I wasn't one of those people who were heavy on the "buff SEE" train, but I just find it immensely odd that CG is making a complete u-turn on the situation this soon. And it's not even that you changed your mind after six months. You and Doja have made it clear that this has been in the works for months now, so it can't have been more than two or three months after CG said that SEE is fine that you also started planning for these changes. So why were players made to believe that their complaints about SEE being too weak were invalid, only for CG to end up buffing him anyway?

    I think, not sure, just think that the reason for this is R9. I think they were testing with R9 and for that some issues were coming with it and found the "answers" were nerfs but the community is just gonna bust through this anyway
  • TVF
    31103 posts Member
    I'm glad other people are bottlenecked.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Konju
    1127 posts Member
    I think it’s probably time for another avatar change haha. Don’t think you’re matching theme anymore. 😂
  • Ok I might get flamed here but I want to show a different perspective about the gear crunch so people might be able to understand it from another perspective.

    As an endgame player, I spend GET1 on stun guns. By doing this, I am NEVER short on stun guns. I always carry 500+, so I can hit all new GL requirements. But because I spend GET1 on stun guns, it caps my ability to use GET1 on G12 gear, needed for high end relic salvage.

    So lets say tomorrow CG says "we are ending the stun gun crunch! Everyone gets 5 stun gun salvage a day in the prize box." Now, I will never have to buy them and can just spend the massive GET1 income on G12, and will never be gated by gear for relic levels.

    So by ending one crunch for player A, it has then ended a totally different crunch for player B.

    This is just one example of the strange trickle effect of the economy in this game. It works similarly with other items, due to how relics work. I am not saying this is the right method, just that its not always black and white to each players experience.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.
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