oQGJ change

Replies

  • Ultra
    11486 posts Moderator
    GaCvet wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    TheDude420 wrote: »
    Almost 12k views and 263 comments in just over 48 hours. Yet CG sees nothing wrong with refusing refunds?

    How about listening to your customers and understanding the value of providing good customer service?

    Why do you insist on treating us like we are in an abusive relationship? Is it because you think we won’t leave you? Typical abusive mindset.

    Its a long weekend

    Hopefully, when they are back in office, they reconsider their decision

    They just got back...how about showing up for a few days?

    Are you working on 7 days a week too after christmas / new years break?
  • Ultra wrote: »
    GaCvet wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    TheDude420 wrote: »
    Almost 12k views and 263 comments in just over 48 hours. Yet CG sees nothing wrong with refusing refunds?

    How about listening to your customers and understanding the value of providing good customer service?

    Why do you insist on treating us like we are in an abusive relationship? Is it because you think we won’t leave you? Typical abusive mindset.

    Its a long weekend

    Hopefully, when they are back in office, they reconsider their decision

    They just got back...how about showing up for a few days?

    Are you working on 7 days a week too after christmas / new years break?

    5 days.
    I usually get more work done in 5 days than the effort it takes to
    1.) understand the qgj nerf is a nerf and
    2.) write a note that we'll refund the mats (zeta+omi).
  • cocoapro wrote: »
    I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.

    We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.

    I completely disagree that the character did not fundamentally change. It was a huge change to what was sold to us. Omicrons were explicitly stated to bring characters up to GL level in their specific game modes which this previously did, and now it clearly no longer works at that level.

    With that said, we deserve more info on what would or wouldn’t be considered a “fundamental change” by capital games so we can make more informed decisions on our spending of resources in the future.

    actually no, they said some could be compared to a GL but most would be comparable to legendary characters.

    but in this case I would say before the nerf he was comparable to a GL but now might be a legend at worst, confrontation at best
    the power of these new Mode Specific abilities can vary from legendary levels of power, and in rare cases, all the way up to rivaling Galactic Legends in their specific mode.
  • i guess cg tested the new version of oQGJ in the arena and it wasn't significantly diffrent from the one before. we need another round of gac and the players to test it for you?
    but even without testing: the players knew just by reading the old leadership version, how powerful it was in grand arena and had high potential vs galatic legends. you may have been surprised by it, but the players were not. it became the most used omicron.
    now without testing, we can tell you just by reading the new leadership: it now won't work at all against galactic legends (isn't that a fundamental change?), in other fights, the damage spread on qgj death will be high, but far away from the old numbers, qgj will not be affected at all from the omicron anymore. Yes, it is still looks like a decent leadership, but not even close to what it was, when players used their very rare omicron materials (plus zeta and maybe even more relic mats).
    it really feels bad, that a pretty high ingame investment, became less valuable after only one round of gac. Please return the omicron materials (and zeta + relic materials) and let each player decide if they want to reapply it again. it wasn't our players fault we signed on a good deal and you changed the item we got afterwards.
  • I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.

    We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
    You have sold us a toon we KNEW how worked, and now you change it into something less. I hereby change my stand from just implying it - this is 100% fraud. Selling something and not delivering the promised thing is the very definition of fraud.Give us the reasoning why it isn't fraud. Come on, I dare you!
    This is what CG needs to do to stop this train-wreck from becoming an even bigger issue:
    1. Admit they were wrong, say they are sorry and will work very hard not to repeat this kind of behavior again
    2. Full refund of Omicron and resent zetas and gear
    3. Add a Omicron indicator on toons like with zetas, just as a small small token of goodwill.
  • This decision by CG, sets a precedent as no omicron fundamentaly alters a character’s identity outside of the game mode the omicron affects.

    So using this basis, no omicrons will ever be returned.

    It’ll be rolo next, for making tb and esy 4/.

    Disgusting decision, just do the right thing, admit you didn’t test properly, and refund the omicron
  • Ultra
    11486 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    GaCvet wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    TheDude420 wrote: »
    Almost 12k views and 263 comments in just over 48 hours. Yet CG sees nothing wrong with refusing refunds?

    How about listening to your customers and understanding the value of providing good customer service?

    Why do you insist on treating us like we are in an abusive relationship? Is it because you think we won’t leave you? Typical abusive mindset.

    Its a long weekend

    Hopefully, when they are back in office, they reconsider their decision

    They just got back...how about showing up for a few days?

    Are you working on 7 days a week too after christmas / new years break?

    5 days.
    You just got back from holidays, how about showing up for work for a few days?
  • QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov
  • The Nerfs to GAS, JKL, Wat and Vader are the most recent and solid precedent, given that, they should give back the Omicron materials used to upgrade QGJ's leader ability.

    Heck, given that precedent they should even give back the relic materials used on QGJ.
  • Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    Ok CG man
  • Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    You do realize you don't have to set oQGJ on defense right? Easy example:

    Two <2m GP SLKR owners get matched. And because they had to get relic JKA for SLKR, one of them decided to gear up QGJ and give him his omi. Both set their SLKR on defense and the 1 guy with his oQGJ clears the opponents SLKR with his oQGJ in 1 attempt while the other guy either failed completely or needed a 2-shot and lost the match.
    Now the omicron doesn't work with/against GLs at all.

    Not a big change, huh?
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • After some thought here is what I would be happy with.

    "Capital Games will not refund any mats, etc due to changes in any and all heroes, regardless of said changes. "

    Then this issue is done. Stay or go away. Let the chips fall where they may. Have the ..... to state the truth, add it to TOS, monogram it on Shirts, w/e it takes. That at least would upfront and honest. Which of course is why it will never, ever happen.

    Lol
  • Legend91 wrote: »
    Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    You do realize you don't have to set oQGJ on defense right? Easy example:

    Two <2m GP SLKR owners get matched. And because they had to get relic JKA for SLKR, one of them decided to gear up QGJ and give him his omi. Both set their SLKR on defense and the 1 guy with his oQGJ clears the opponents SLKR with his oQGJ in 1 attempt while the other guy either failed completely or needed a 2-shot and lost the match.
    Now the omicron doesn't work with/against GLs at all.

    Not a big change, huh?

    Well yes, but common sense suggests that they put their qgj on defence and keep the slkr for attack now. If their opponent doesn’t keep their kylo for attack then nothing has changed has it?

    It’s still a big enough change to warrant a refund, I just don’t think this is the greatest example.

    797-722-718
  • Kard_1986 wrote: »
    Legend91 wrote: »
    Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    You do realize you don't have to set oQGJ on defense right? Easy example:

    Two <2m GP SLKR owners get matched. And because they had to get relic JKA for SLKR, one of them decided to gear up QGJ and give him his omi. Both set their SLKR on defense and the 1 guy with his oQGJ clears the opponents SLKR with his oQGJ in 1 attempt while the other guy either failed completely or needed a 2-shot and lost the match.
    Now the omicron doesn't work with/against GLs at all.

    Not a big change, huh?

    Well yes, but common sense suggests that they put their qgj on defence and keep the slkr for attack now. If their opponent doesn’t keep their kylo for attack then nothing has changed has it?

    It’s still a big enough change to warrant a refund, I just don’t think this is the greatest example.

    Actually, I think this is the biggest reason it warrants a refund for me. I’ve applied an omicron that I will never get to use as the team will always be on defence. I want to play the game and use these abilities. I know I don’t HAVE to put it on D, but realistically with crystals tied in to ga I can’t muck about.
    797-722-718
  • CG changed what people bought. That's all that should matter. If I buy a movie ticket for Movie A and the theater says, "we're just gonna play Movie B instead." I better get my money back. Shouldn't matter how similar the movies are.
  • I think they should at least give a refund for those that applied the omi before the Dec 17 announcement where they made clear that it's gonna get changed. For those that applied it after that announcement..well...you have been warned.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Legend91 wrote: »
    I think they should at least give a refund for those that applied the omi before the Dec 17 announcement where they made clear that it's gonna get changed. For those that applied it after that announcement..well...you have been warned.

    Even this position is flawed, imo. Their announcement only mentioned offense, and there are folks that have talked about using QGJ alongside their own GL for the pre-death offense boost.
  • Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    I won a match because my oQGJ team I set on defense annihilated a SLKR team after SLKR took out QGJ. This happened to a lot of GL teams in this last season of GAC. I understand if CG wants to protect GL's by not making overpowered abilities, however if an overpowered ability slips through the cracks and people spend expensive resources to get that ability, it's only right to refund those spent resources if you nerf that ability afterwards.
  • How is a 50% nerf not a fundamental change?
  • StewartH
    148 posts Member
    edited January 2022
    Who was it that released an omicron that had broken game mechanics? The players or CG?
    Who was it that 2 weeks after the release realized THEY had made a mistake? The players or CG?

    Now if we can at least partially accept that CG did one/or both of the above...how was a player supposed to insulate themselves from those mistakes? The only possible way to prevent the above was to not apply the omni...which means that everyone that did apply the omni has been harmed by your mistakes.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with "fundamental changes." You made a COMMITTMENT of expectations and now you're backing out. That's your fault and the players shouldn't be punished.
  • aerohead88 wrote: »
    Jefferx wrote: »
    QGJ omicron will still be a dominant grand arena toon. Nobody, except CG test the fixed QGJ omicron so why complain ? GL beat QGJ omicron before and they will also after. It’s not a big change in my pov

    I won a match because my oQGJ team I set on defense annihilated a SLKR team after SLKR took out QGJ. This happened to a lot of GL teams in this last season of GAC. I understand if CG wants to protect GL's by not making overpowered abilities, however if an overpowered ability slips through the cracks and people spend expensive resources to get that ability, it's only right to refund those spent resources if you nerf that ability afterwards.

    They can’t even say that it slipped through the cracks. You mean to tell me that they didn’t test this with one of the 6 highest priority characters in the game? If they aren’t testing things against GL’s on the most basic of levels then they have zero quality testing done. Algorithms or not, this is just basic testing that anyone could’ve seen if it was just played.
  • DPD wrote: »
    I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.

    We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.


    I fundamentally disagree with this perspective. The product that I purchased was changed in such a way that it is no longer is representative of what I bought. My purchase should be refunded so that I can have a chance to review the modified product and decide if it is something I want to purchase again.

    I don't know what you call this kind of behaviour in the US, but here in Australia we call the misrepresentation of goods purchased "fraud". It's a criminal offence here.
  • Ahtf
    22 posts Member
    I can’t understand why they don’t just refund this. Are they doing their best to get a even worse reputation, for what 20 omicron mats? They are releasing so many omicron right now they won’t lose a thing from it. Especially since many probably will use it on quigon once again, since it still make a crap team way better.
  • Set your OQGJ on defense, let your opponent worry about it.
  • I simply have to chip in on this discussion.. This was a major change of a kit feature to exclude leader and GL from the entire boost. now is it understandable after having seen the omi in live and in particular with JML and JKA.. sure it was a very powerful kit.. but the synergies and similar were plain from the release, which is why so many people bought it. I can understand they changed it, but i'm not sure i would have prioritized the new version of many of the other omi's. At it is a very troublesome area... so what about dash, rolo, mara, Boba fat? they are also very good omi abilities.. will get they nerf'ed once enough people get enough omi to play with them?
  • striker_Jakkuzas
    128 posts Member
    edited January 2022
    Let us just stick to the facts.

    Road Ahead: October 2021:
    "Omicrons add utility to characters in specific modes of the game, which we detail when we discuss mode-specific abilities. They will actually bring older characters into greater relevance by increasing their abilities to be on par with more powerful units; the power of these new Mode Specific abilities can vary from legendary levels of power, and in rare cases, all the way up to rivaling Galactic Legends in their specific mode."

    December 16th CG posted:
    "We are aware of an issue with Qui-Gon Jinn in Grand Arena where his Omicron upgrade is providing more Offense than intended. Currently when Qui-Gon Jinn is defeated, he is providing Jedi allies with excessive Offense on top of the 400% Offense boost based on his stats he is supposed to provide."

    The changes they announce on the 12th:
    "UNIT - Fixed an issue in which Qui-Gon Jinn would incorrectly grant allies Offense while his Speed to Offense bonus was still active rather than after Speed to Offense expires upon being defeated.
    UNIT - Updated Qui-Gon Jinn’s Omicron ability to function only when all allies are Jedi and no Galactic Legends are present on either side of battle."

    August 16th CG update:
    "Darth Vader, General Skywalker, Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker, and Wat Tambor will receive several changes to their kits in an upcoming Update. Prior to that Update, we will return the resources used to upgrade these units beyond Relic 7 to your inbox and reset these units to Relic 7."

    Road Ahead July 2021:
    "Defense Changes
    The details of what’s getting changed and added are available below, but this won’t be going into effect for about another month in order to give you time to make an informed decision on whether to re-relic those characters up to Relic 8 or use those resources somewhere else."

    So in summary (now some perspective in relation to the facts)
    1. Omicrons are supposed to make no-GLs "on par with more powerful units"
    2. CG made us aware of an issue with the QGJ omicron
    3. CG not only fixed the issue but made an update with no prior communication that changes the characters kit with no prior notice
    4. CG has refunded materials to player when there are kit change (this is only the most recent example but this has occurred with multiple kit changes (Finn, Nightsisters, etc.)
    5. The last time this occurred we were told in advance of the changes

    So this change occurred on the 12th and today is the 18th, with no response from CG. Why not do the right thing and refund it today? Or at the very minimum be consistent with what you have done in the past? Is that too much to ask?
  • Still utter crap. They materially changed the character. Ignore the GL change, it also changed his kit beyond protecting further form the GL’s.

    For something CG was selling for $99.99 over the holidays, they owe the players a refund.

    CG is just craptastic to its players and clearly don’t give two…
This discussion has been closed.