Where is the interesting part of the new raid?

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    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nah, the worst part is just spamming specials without too much concern with what you're doing. The scouts have way too many different buffs on them, making it a bit confusing as to what you need to get to 0 before they die. I just think the whole thing is overly complicated given the relative simplicity of the raid itself.

    It is very easy raid, you can get whole idea how to play in like 20 minutes.

    Eh, idk about all that. I did a couple dozen runs and at no point did I understand what was happening.

    Watch vancele video, he explains what is happening.

    No thanks.
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    Threepio isn't reusable if you max your score (presumably by accident). And he's not reusable if he's killed. This is normal Threepio behaviour -- not just in squad battles, but in past raids. He's acted like this in EVERY raid.

    The only reason this is at all coming up as an issue is that with 3 toons squads there's less opportunity for synergies to make another toon more valuable than Threepio is for a given attempt.

    In past raids, you could reuse Threepio in all the different squads, but there were only 2 or 3 that he fit into well. In all the other squads, you might as well use someone else since your results would be as good or better and you didn't have to worry. about making sure his escape mechanic triggered.

    By revamping everyone's abilities, each toon is less of an individual and more of a generic piece that slots with other generic pieces. Thus Threepio just works with more comps than before. Add that to the fact that my Threepio is r8 and suddenly I can use him with anyone.

    The problem if there is one is not that Threepio escapes. It's that he works so well with Dark Side characters.

    If there's a nerf to be made, I would disable Threepio's escape mechanic at the beginning of an attempt if any DS toons are present or otherwise change Threepio's abilities so he is not an asset to DS allies.

    But let's be honest, Threepio's entire escape mechanic, the whole idea of him being with one group then they're all gone and suddenly he can escape and join another group, THAT WHOLE THING is inspired by Endor, where he gradually got separated from the other rebels, then yelled, "Over here!" and the Imps captured him.

    Then what happened? Ewoks appeared by the hundreds and Threepio escaped to be part of a different faction.

    To say that Endor is the one place where Threepio can't use his escape mechanic would be a literal travesty.
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    Since when does CG care about lore > $? 😆

    Anyway, I’m not CG, but I don’t like having to do more work than necessary. And leaving this exploit alone in its current form will incentivize my guild to take advantage of it. Whatever CG decides to do, I hope they take my opinion here into account.
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    Surely takes hours for the CM to come up with a "this is gonna stay / this is going to get 'fixed'" post in Dev Announcements.

    Better let people relic up their 3PO to R8, then wait 1 week, then announce that you're going to 'fix' him.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
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    My opinion: Keep 3po's escape mechanic.

    Hopefully CG listens.
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    fixes the 3PO cheese.

    Why does it need fixing? This behaviour is in keeping with 3po/Hoda/Wat/MM in any other raid

    Because it’s unlikely CG intended for you to run up to 8x battles with one toon. Also, if you cheese with 3PO in this manner, you have to pay attention if he escapes or not at the end of the run / do more runs, which is more work than full auto and exacerbates the motion sickness issues.

    That still doesn’t explain why C3PO acting like themself and other passive characters in raids is anything other than WAI and requires fixing. Perhaps CG are throwing us one tiny bone to find in this otherwise disappointing featured raid.

    Because CG has a history of fixing raid exploits that make it too easy to score very high and disincentivize spending elsewhere. See: Finn nerf in HSTR, BAM/Dragon fix in KDH.

    I mean, you’re welcome to engage in this fantasy that CG will let you run one toon up to 8x times in their brand new raid. But imo that’s clearly an exploit, not to mention making this raid more work to use the exploit.

    I think BAM was actually a bug - something was happening there that didn't align with his kit. It was a bug and rightly got fixed.

    The Finn nerf wasn't great though. I was kind of salty about that one. I like to think I've let it go, but there might still be a little bit of salt way at the bottom of my salt shaker that tastes like turn meter and exposes. Zorri helps though - and so does the Finn omi. So I think I'm ok.

    Using 3P0 more than once is not an exploit - that's the way the kit was written, that's the way it's always worked. 3P0 escaping is a defining part of his kit. I highly doubt they overlooked that.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
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    I like that c3po makes it a bit easier.
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    It’s just another thing to have to do.

    Is it? This is not in addition to past raids. It's replacing a past raid. It's not "another" thing to do. The number of things stays the same, and even goes down a bit given that it's 8 attempts in 6 days instead of 5 attempts in 3.

    I mean, I'm not contesting your judgement that this isn't fun for you. I just don't see how this is more work. It's arguably less.

    You've misunderstood slightly...I didn't mean it's adding or subtracting time and effort compared to other raids, it's how it's another example of a boring-chore-type activity in the game and not enjoyable.
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    Ah, apologies for the misunderstanding. I take your point now.
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    Jons wrote: »
    This new raid is bad. I'm sorry, but it just is. Generic skills, no real tactics, boring. Just a few issues with it.

    Please consider rotating the raids so we don't have to do just this for the next 8 months or so.

    Or delete this raid completely and have it as a monthly event.

    Log in, auto 8 fights, wait 3 days, collect loot.

    Sounds absolutely spectacular to me.
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    The new raid is just awful, Even Krayt is better then this burning pile of speeder bike trash.......
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    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nah, the worst part is just spamming specials without too much concern with what you're doing. The scouts have way too many different buffs on them, making it a bit confusing as to what you need to get to 0 before they die. I just think the whole thing is overly complicated given the relative simplicity of the raid itself.

    It is very easy raid, you can get whole idea how to play in like 20 minutes.

    Eh, idk about all that. I did a couple dozen runs and at no point did I understand what was happening.

    Watch vancele video, he explains what is happening.

    No thanks.

    So what is the point of complaining that you dont understand mechanics? However i dont care if you dont understand.
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    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nah, the worst part is just spamming specials without too much concern with what you're doing. The scouts have way too many different buffs on them, making it a bit confusing as to what you need to get to 0 before they die. I just think the whole thing is overly complicated given the relative simplicity of the raid itself.

    It is very easy raid, you can get whole idea how to play in like 20 minutes.

    Eh, idk about all that. I did a couple dozen runs and at no point did I understand what was happening.

    Watch vancele video, he explains what is happening.

    No thanks.

    So what is the point of complaining that you dont understand mechanics? However i dont care if you dont understand.

    I wasn't complaining, was just pointing out it's not necessarily "super easy to understand." In fact, you proved my point when you said it required a video to have someone explain it to be understood.
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    But let's be honest, Threepio's entire escape mechanic, the whole idea of him being with one group then they're all gone and suddenly he can escape and join another group, THAT WHOLE THING is inspired by Endor, where he gradually got separated from the other rebels, then yelled, "Over here!" and the Imps captured him.

    Then what happened? Ewoks appeared by the hundreds and Threepio escaped to be part of a different faction.

    To say that Endor is the one place where Threepio can't use his escape mechanic would be a literal travesty.

    C-3PO wasn’t the first character with an Escape mechanic. That was Hermit Yoda, who (once he got to Dagobah) definitely doesn’t have a history of being seperated and escaping and switching factions. The Escape mechanic was made to not put players in a situation where they have to wait for a character who literally can’t deal damage to die for a battle to end.

    But, CG’s looking at it anyway, so we’ll see I guess.
  • Gawejn
    1162 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nah, the worst part is just spamming specials without too much concern with what you're doing. The scouts have way too many different buffs on them, making it a bit confusing as to what you need to get to 0 before they die. I just think the whole thing is overly complicated given the relative simplicity of the raid itself.

    It is very easy raid, you can get whole idea how to play in like 20 minutes.

    Eh, idk about all that. I did a couple dozen runs and at no point did I understand what was happening.

    Watch vancele video, he explains what is happening.

    No thanks.

    So what is the point of complaining that you dont understand mechanics? However i dont care if you dont understand.

    I wasn't complaining, was just pointing out it's not necessarily "super easy to understand." In fact, you proved my point when you said it required a video to have someone explain it to be understood.

    No i didnt prove your point. 5 miniutes explanation in video means it is super easy. But if you insisist that 5 minutes means that mechanics is super hard or hard to understand, ....couse it is video...
    Yes, mechanics in this raid is very easy. Thats my point. So easy.
    But for you can be hard to get it. I can understand that.

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    I scored nearly 10 million points on my guilds first run of the raid. I did use 3po six times. I don’t really take issue with it being called a cheese but it’s most certainly not an exploit. There is no bug or flaw being used.

    Now should 3po be nerfed? Since that’s what it would be. I don’t think so. Sure 3po potentially gets used 8 times and cuts the amount of needed characters from 24 to 17, however the reality is most players won’t put more relics on more than a handful of characters for this raid.

    If they leave 3po alone, I likely push him to r8 and then add relic levels to some characters. If they nerf 3po I keep him at r7 and add the same amount of relics to the same characters. So cg can nerf 3po and lessen my rewards but get me to spend no additional resources or leave him alone and give me some extra rewards that maybe our worth a smidge more over the lifetime of the raid then I spent on taking 3po from r7 to r8. One choice makes cg look cheap and one makes cg look generous.
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    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Now should 3po be nerfed? Since that’s what it would be. I don’t think so. Sure 3po potentially gets used 8 times and cuts the amount of needed characters from 24 to 17, however the reality is most players won’t put more relics on more than a handful of characters for this raid.

    A lot of strategies seem to use 3PO with only one other Imperial Trooper, which cuts that 24-ish number down to 9. Which is pretty significant.
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    First attempt today and it's nauseating, the background is terrible and you kind of need to pay attention so you can see if 3po is destroyed or escapes.
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    CG, I hope you are listening to these comments. This is probably the worst thing you have done for this game in a long time, that I can remember. You have done some dumb things, but this really does take the cake. Krayt was good for what it did, in introducing new raid content, and took a bit of patience to get it right. This is just annoyingly stupid. You had such a great opportunity to introduce something really great, but came up with this? Really? I am not sure who your designer is, but they really should re-evaluate their career options.

    The raid is still buggy as hell. Multiple times I go in, clear first wave, and then nothing. I get to look at the terrible graphics and annoying background scrolling ad inifinitum.

    Sad.
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    A lot of strategies seem to use 3PO with only one other Imperial Trooper, which cuts that 24-ish number down to 9. Which is pretty significant.

    Which is why I think they should nerf Threepio's ability to help DS toons, but not Threepio's ability to escape and be reused.

    The escape is not a cheat AND it's thematically appropriate.

    Using Threepio to make Empire toons more effective is something that wouldn't work with his kit as written. It comes about because of how kits are translated into new, alignment-agnostic raid special abilities, and it is NOT thematically appropriate.

    Killing 3po's ability to work with Imps isn't **necessary**, I don't think, but it does enhance characterization while limiting the number of times 3po can be used (if that's important to CG)

    And most important (to me, anyway) that would enhance 3po's characterization rather than undo the attempt to import the theme of 3po escaping on Endor (he does this twice, once after the net drops all our heroes into a trap, and once when 3po is the bait for a bunch of Imps) into SWGOH as a game ability that **increases** characterization and the connection to ROTJ.
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    GRANDOLA wrote: »
    Nah, keep the featured raid and make the old ones into Assault battles. Krayt would be for tuskens and Mandos as they don't have their own. Then speeder is for Troopers and ewoks. Makes the investment in the characters long lasting instead of a 9 month timer of use.

    Tuskens were added to the Inquisitor AB a while back - just FYI.

    It's an interesting idea you have though - that would help retain the value of older raid specific teams.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
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    The main problem with the last two released raids is lack of end game character shards like we had with the rancor and tank raids. There is also a lack of competitive nature.
    Sure we can auto it, but that’s just work, not relaxation, challenge or enjoyment.
    I and many others really enjoyed trying to take a top position in the early raids to get the top rewards, others that did not have time could do minimal effort and still get some shards.
    I hope the next raid has shards tied to it.
    As others of said, if the strategy for 50 players to win is hit auto while watching TV or driving, then great. But if the strategy was to challenge players, do not introduce a new game within the existing game that does not build on the characters abilities, synergies, strengths and weaknesses.
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    Meh .... I'll just throw in teams and push auto ... done. On to the next thing.
  • TVF
    36858 posts Member
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    Range1974 wrote: »
    The main problem with the last two released raids is lack of end game character shards like we had with the rancor and tank raids. There is also a lack of competitive nature.
    Sure we can auto it, but that’s just work, not relaxation, challenge or enjoyment.
    I and many others really enjoyed trying to take a top position in the early raids to get the top rewards, others that did not have time could do minimal effort and still get some shards.
    I hope the next raid has shards tied to it.
    As others of said, if the strategy for 50 players to win is hit auto while watching TV or driving, then great. But if the strategy was to challenge players, do not introduce a new game within the existing game that does not build on the characters abilities, synergies, strengths and weaknesses.

    The best thing about the new raids is that there's no raid toon and that there's no fighting for top 10.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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    The new raid put my guild on a new level, the scores are higher and we may get the 106m chest in 3 months, its a step up on gear but a step down on game play.
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    TVF wrote: »
    Range1974 wrote: »
    The main problem with the last two released raids is lack of end game character shards like we had with the rancor and tank raids. There is also a lack of competitive nature.
    Sure we can auto it, but that’s just work, not relaxation, challenge or enjoyment.
    I and many others really enjoyed trying to take a top position in the early raids to get the top rewards, others that did not have time could do minimal effort and still get some shards.
    I hope the next raid has shards tied to it.
    As others of said, if the strategy for 50 players to win is hit auto while watching TV or driving, then great. But if the strategy was to challenge players, do not introduce a new game within the existing game that does not build on the characters abilities, synergies, strengths and weaknesses.

    The best thing about the new raids is that there's no raid toon and that there's no fighting for top 10.

    Agree. Separating the guild reward and individual performance was one of the best ideas of the developers. And yes, i'm too impatient to collect another raid toon every 8 shards a week.
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    Cobb Vanth would have been a great raid toon for the Krayt raid and Endor Gear Luke for the Speeder Bike raid. Could have been a good character to synergize with GL Leia.
    We needed Cobb Vanth shards for Krayt Dragon raid, Endor Gear Luke shards for Speeder Bike raid and Anakin Skywalker shards for Battle for Naboo raid?
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    Pretty sure they didn't want to do raid characters anymore, and don't really need them now that we have Conquest units.
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    So we don't need marquee releases and galactic chases either because of conquest characters too?
    We needed Cobb Vanth shards for Krayt Dragon raid, Endor Gear Luke shards for Speeder Bike raid and Anakin Skywalker shards for Battle for Naboo raid?
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    LordDirt wrote: »
    So we don't need marquee releases and galactic chases either because of conquest characters too?

    Yes, that is clearly what I meant, thank you for being the appropriate level of verbose to properly express the thought that I failed to.
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