I run zzThrawn, zDT, Krennic, Shore, and Storm. All are max gear. All are 7* except 6* Thrawn. I haven't come close to losing on offense. This full Empire team is an absolute blast to play. I highly recommend investing in Krennic. His basic, with 216% crit damage, will crit for 20k+ in this squad. He is really squishy though and I think the DT zeta is important. I hope this helps.
This is a long post, but I tried to separate it into sections, and provide as much info as I could.
I am trying to optimize my team. I am particularly interested in defense. Any advice would be appreciated. I also have a few questions at the bottom.
Currently I have used these two variants:
zTarkin (lead) [Speed: 253; Zeta: unique only]
zThrawn [Speed: 271; Zeta: unique only]
DN [Speed: 205; No Zeta]
ShoreTrooper [Speed: 201]
GK [Speed: 175]
and
zVader (lead) [Speed: 195; Zeta: leader]
zTarkin [Speed: 225; Zeta: unique only]
zThrawn [Speed: 243; Zeta: unique only]
DN [Speed: 205; No Zeta]
Shoretrooper [Speed: 173]
All are 7* and G11, except Thrawn and Shoretrooper whom are both 6*. The speeds listed are adjusted based on leader ability. I can probably tweak the speeds some, but to increase them much more would mean to destroy set bonuses. Also, I can easily get 18 more speed on Kenobi by using a speed primary arrow, as currently I use a protection primary arrow with +12 speed secondary so he survives longer. I can also make shoretrooper faster simply by switching his mods with Kenobi's, as Kenobi's has more speed.
Possible Additional Characters to Substitute in:
Gen Veers - 7*, G10, no zeta
DeathT - 5*, G1, no zeta
DKrenic - 5*, G1, no zeta
StormT - 7*, G1, no zeta
Emperor - 7*, G11
TFP - 7*, G11
ST Han - 7*, G11
The strategy concepts for each of the above teams are as follows:
Tarkin Lead: The reason for using Tarkin lead is simply to outspeed the enemy. I face several variations of Chaze based teams. They all have between 246-259 speed on their Chirrut and around 220 on their Rex. My thought is that if their Chirrut goes first, and they are on offense, they could use Chirrut's cleanse and get tenacity up right away (or if I ever applied the zeta to DN's unique Chirrut's AI would cleanse and tenacity up). Tenacity up would prevent Tarkin's debuffs. This would prevent him from going twice, and likely prevent DN from cooldown increasing everyone. I don't think I can naturally get Thrawn's speed to 260. If I reorganize my mods, I might be able to, but it would definitely destroy mod set synergies, and probably also lower the speeds on the rest of the team. So by using Tarkin, I can ensure I always outspeed the enemy Chirrut. I also face a QGJ lead team with a Yoda who has an effective 279 speed. Currently, this is still faster than my Thrawn, and the tenacity up he applies does mess me up. I can still win on offense, but I am sure he obliterates me on defense. I might be able to eek out another 9 speed though on him to outspeed the Yoda.
Vader Lead: The idea here was simply the additional TM reduction on damage, and that his leader also affects DN. Initially, Tarkin could TM reduce everyone a bit more, and then DN would as well, followed by more from Vader. The sticking dots is secondary, but does help with ensuring that DN gets his cooldown increase on everyone the second time around (ideally, the first time should be fine from Tarkin's debuffs). The downside is without the additional speed, against many teams they can get tenacity up applied before Thrawn/Tarkin go.
My Questions:
I am currently farming Death Trooper as he can make the team stronger for obvious reasons. But I am wondering about the other choices people have put in there.
I see some people saying Gen Veers works great, but looking at his kit, I really don't see what he is adding. His ability block aoe is only 55%, so it isn't that reliable I wouldn't think. The 15% crit damage is okay, but I almost don't want anyone to crit, because of the Rex leaders. The 10% protection and 50% TM boost only apply after you kill someone, and even then, it would just affect the troopers.
Krennic seems useful. As a leader the ability blocks on crit seems like it could be pretty great. As a non-leader he still buffs up DT's damage, and the AoE with stagger should hinder enemies even more. However, I am a ways off from having DT geared up, and even then I would need to zeta him, or Krennic will likely die.
How good is Storm Trooper? The 10% TM reduction on being hit seems like it would be pretty great. The only downside is that there are a lot of DN that can dispel him, and he has a while before he can retaunt. The exposes might be nice though in the meanwhile. I was thinking of replacing GK with Storm Trooper, but didn't want to waste the gear if he is only so so. Especially, since I still need to gear DT, and he might not even have a slot once DT is placed in, unless I take out Shoretrooper or DN. I saw some videos a few pages back where StormTrooper seemed pretty decent, but they were double tanks. If I keep DN, StormTrooper would be the sole tank, and if I used the double tank, I would have to replace DN and lose the double cooldown increase.
Alternatively, has anyone tried using ST Han? No empire synergy, but the TM boost from hit could potentially make DN, DT, and everyone else, go a lot quicker. The downside would be that Thrawn would also get this TM boost and lose his fracture sooner.
I don't really understand why everyone loves Thrawn's leader so much. Without the speed boost from Tarkin, won't the enemy get tenacity up before you go? Both Yoda and Chirrut have faster natural speeds than Thrawn/Tarkin. So assuming equivalent mods, they should be faster. Also, I get that there is TM boost from gaining/losing status effects, and against other empire/sith teams that would be great. But there really isn't that much in the way of debuffs being thrown out from most Chaze based teams and Jedi teams (other than from R2), and they seem to be the majority of the enemy comps out there. Enemy DNs will debuff, but that is on your character's turn, they are already at 100%, so no gain. Speaking of DN, won't his debuffs on your character's turn cause them to use the Maneuver ability, and destroying the whole opening moves sequence?
I don't really understand why everyone loves Thrawn's leader so much. Without the speed boost from Tarkin, won't the enemy get tenacity up before you go? Both Yoda and Chirrut have faster natural speeds than Thrawn/Tarkin. So assuming equivalent mods, they should be faster. Also, I get that there is TM boost from gaining/losing status effects, and against other empire/sith teams that would be great. But there really isn't that much in the way of debuffs being thrown out from most Chaze based teams and Jedi teams (other than from R2), and they seem to be the majority of the enemy comps out there. Enemy DNs will debuff, but that is on your character's turn, they are already at 100%, so no gain. Speaking of DN, won't his debuffs on your character's turn cause them to use the Maneuver ability, and destroying the whole opening moves sequence?
Thrawn's lead is great for several reasons. First, tenacity up only comes on a cleanse, so when you are on offense, they're not using it to start. Second, typically you're using DT on your team. His opening move is his AOE, which either dispels buffs or increases cooldowns. So if tenacity up has been applied, you remove it (against a zQGJ team, you want to use Tarkin's AOE first to clear the foresight). Third, you get so many turns, it generally doesn't matter -- you are constantly gaining TM when there are debuffs on the other team (speed down from Baze, DN's unique, whatever else they might throw at you); gaining 15% tm whenever you use a special from Thrawn, gaining another 15% from Shore, etc... Yes, DN's unique causes you to use Maneuver, but it's actually not that huge a deal -- it's a special ability, so between Thrawn's unique, Shore's unique, and the ability itself, they're gaining 80% tm back immediately. I run zzThrawn, zDT, DK, Tarkin, Shore, and can auto anyone I fight, despite Maneuver being used.
Krennic seems useful. As a leader the ability blocks on crit seems like it could be pretty great. As a non-leader he still buffs up DT's damage, and the AoE with stagger should hinder enemies even more. However, I am a ways off from having DT geared up, and even then I would need to zeta him, or Krennic will likely die.
Krennic lead is too dependent on crits and basically can't work without Tarkin -- in this age of Kenobi spamming crit immunity, you need to be able to apply debuffs without damage so you can subsequently crit before they get crit immunity up. He is a very solid option as a team member though, particularly with the zeta on DT. He can survive thanks to the perma-crit immunity, and can give DT a whole lot of extra turns. Plus, if someone targets down DT, Krennic can bring him back.
Thrawn's lead is great for several reasons. First, tenacity up only comes on a cleanse, so when you are on offense, they're not using it to start. Second, typically you're using DT on your team. His opening move is his AOE, which either dispels buffs or increases cooldowns. So if tenacity up has been applied, you remove it (against a zQGJ team, you want to use Tarkin's AOE first to clear the foresight). Third, you get so many turns, it generally doesn't matter -- you are constantly gaining TM when there are debuffs on the other team (speed down from Baze, DN's unique, whatever else they might throw at you); gaining 15% tm whenever you use a special from Thrawn, gaining another 15% from Shore, etc... Yes, DN's unique causes you to use Maneuver, but it's actually not that huge a deal -- it's a special ability, so between Thrawn's unique, Shore's unique, and the ability itself, they're gaining 80% tm back immediately. I run zzThrawn, zDT, DK, Tarkin, Shore, and can auto anyone I fight, despite Maneuver being used.
So, it might actually be a good thing that I held off on zetaing the unique on my DN. Because if their Chirrut outspeeds my Thrawn/Tarkin, and he goes first, DN's zeta unique will apply health down on Chirrut, and he will cleanse himself and give tenacity up to everyone else right off the bat.
Still though, against a zQGJ with a Yoda, Yoda is going to go first and tenacity up everyone. Tarkin might clear the foresight, and then DT will clear the tenacity up, but there still won't be any debuffs to guarantee DN's cooldown increase. I guess that is just something that has to be dealt with initially, and the TM generation from R2/JKA's debuffs will allow your team to get ahead and apply debuffs the second time around.
I still find it surprising that the 20% TM generation from Thrawn's lead outweighs the flat speed increase from Tarkin though. I can definitely see it outweighing against a debuff oriented team for sure. But against a typical triple cleanse team, only R2 is doing an aoe debuff. Baze should likely be fractured, and even when he goes he is probably just single targeting a tank. DN's health down on the unique only applies at the start of someone's turn when they already have 100% so that shouldn't add anything. But the dot on DN's turn will. It just doesn't seem like there are enough debuffs to make it overtake the direct speed increase. But there is also the 15% max protection and 25% offense too consider too I suppose.
With all that said, the maneuever ability might actually be a benefit, and not such a detriment like I originally thought. One thing I have noticed under Tarkin's lead is that once the initial sequence of attacks happen, everyone's specials are burned and everyone has to use basic attacks for round. This ends up letting Thrawn take a turn and dropping fracture. The usage of the maneuver ability probably would allow Thrawn to keep fracture up longer, and they still get 80% TM back like you said.
I just realized I was only thinking about debuffs under Thrawn lead. I forgot about all the constant buffs from shoretrooper, stormtrooper, gen veers, etc. Those would definitely add up.
I had not even considered slotting Royal Guard in as a second tank. His special that gives defense up and health up would boost everyone's TM by 40%. That is pretty substantial, let alone his stuns.
I just realized I was only thinking about debuffs under Thrawn lead. I forgot about all the constant buffs from shoretrooper, stormtrooper, gen veers, etc. Those would definitely add up.
I had not even considered slotting Royal Guard in as a second tank. His special that gives defense up and health up would boost everyone's TM by 40%. That is pretty substantial, let alone his stuns.
A maxed Shoretrooper is virtually unkillable under Thrawn lead. He is pretty crucial to Thrawn lead because while Shore is taunting, there is extra TM gain which helps with all the Maneuvering going on.
Some people like to use Shore and Storm together but it seems like it takes away too much DPS to have two tanks with Thrawn.
Tarkin lead is situationally better on offense because of first turn advantage but losing protection regeneration and 20% offense is an appreciable difference.
I just realized I was only thinking about debuffs under Thrawn lead. I forgot about all the constant buffs from shoretrooper, stormtrooper, gen veers, etc. Those would definitely add up.
I had not even considered slotting Royal Guard in as a second tank. His special that gives defense up and health up would boost everyone's TM by 40%. That is pretty substantial, let alone his stuns.
The tm is only for gaining/resisting negative status effects. It's the protection recovery that's for both positive and negative status effects
I still find it surprising that the 20% TM generation from Thrawn's lead outweighs the flat speed increase from Tarkin though.
If your average speed is 220, then the 28 speed from Tarkin is a little less than a 13% boost. Every time you gain the 20% TM, that's effectively a 25% boost, regardless of your speed. It's pretty powerful.
Sooooo I accidentally zetad tarkin unique.
Guess that was inevitable since I accidentally zetad deathtrooper unique, and krennic leader. Slowly I am totally maxing the whole empire faction. By accident.
Also I've got a zeta tarkin lead in my arena. Tried my Thrawn lead vs him as a test for @Goride and @Indominable_J.
I did full auto battle and didn't target any toons so it should be a fair matchup
His Thrawn gets first move of course but after that it was total domination in my favor.
2 mins and I didn't even see an expose from the zeta leader lol. Even nihilus got blocked and didn't kill anyone.
(Edit)
Was going to add images but apparently the site I was using requires a premium account to show the image here. Basically I had half or above protection on all my characters and I don't even have a zeta Thrawn lead.
I've been having a blast playing a full empire team with Thrawn and imperial troopers. Thrawn L, zVeers, zDT, Shore, storm.
The imperial trooper synergy makes them very durable, especially with Stormtrooper in there, and the expose is surprisingly helpful with DPS.
I don't even have Thrawn's leader ability zeta'd yet (1 zeta away!). Seems to hold decently on defense as well.
I also like that fact I'm the only one running full empire on my shard.
I've been having a blast playing a full empire team with Thrawn and imperial troopers. Thrawn L, zVeers, zDT, Shore, storm.
The imperial trooper synergy makes them very durable, especially with Stormtrooper in there, and the expose is surprisingly helpful with DPS.
I don't even have Thrawn's leader ability zeta'd yet (1 zeta away!). Seems to hold decently on defense as well.
I also like that fact I'm the only one running full empire on my shard.
Now that I have EP, I'm looking to start an empire/sith squad, but not sure what the best team with my current resources would be.
I have 6* EP, 6* Vader, 5* but close to 6 RG, 4* TFP, Tarkin. Snowtrooper and Maul, all gear 8 except the 4* toons but can get them up fairly quickly.
I'm on a pretty young shard, started in May, and the majority of my competition runs different variations of Wiggs, Chaze, and Lando with a couple DN lead sith teams here and there.
My top two toons are 7* Kylo and Boba, so I feel like one of them should probably be in there too, at least for now.
Can somebody explain this part of Ebb and Flow zeta?
"if any enemies are Fractured, Fractured enemies lose 15% Turn Meter".
But since fractured enemy has 0 speed, what's the advantage of that?
If their turn meter was at 90% when you fractured them, when fracture ends they're at 90%. With the zeta, you can have them at 0% when fracture ends, removing them from the fight that much longer.
If their turn meter was at 90% when you fractured them, when fracture ends they're at 90%. With the zeta, you can have them at 0% when fracture ends, removing them from the fight that much longer.
If their turn meter was at 90% when you fractured them, when fracture ends they're at 90%. With the zeta, you can have them at 0% when fracture ends, removing them from the fight that much longer.
Also, raid bosses only have half speed, not 0 speed, so it's another source of TM reduction for that.
Now that I have EP, I'm looking to start an empire/sith squad, but not sure what the best team with my current resources would be.
I have 6* EP, 6* Vader, 5* but close to 6 RG, 4* TFP, Tarkin. Snowtrooper and Maul, all gear 8 except the 4* toons but can get them up fairly quickly.
I'm on a pretty young shard, started in May, and the majority of my competition runs different variations of Wiggs, Chaze, and Lando with a couple DN lead sith teams here and there.
My top two toons are 7* Kylo and Boba, so I feel like one of them should probably be in there too, at least for now.
Where do I go from here?
swgoh.gg/u/synth
I'd go Boba (L), Kylo, Palp, TFP, Tank to start. RG might suffice as a tank for now, but ultimately you'll be better served with someone like shoretrooper.
Also I've got a zeta tarkin lead in my arena. Tried my Thrawn lead vs him as a test for @Goride and @Indominable_J.
I did full auto battle and didn't target any toons so it should be a fair matchup
His Thrawn gets first move of course but after that it was total domination in my favor.
2 mins and I didn't even see an expose from the zeta leader lol. Even nihilus got blocked and didn't kill anyone.
(Edit)
Was going to add images but apparently the site I was using requires a premium account to show the image here. Basically I had half or above protection on all my characters and I don't even have a zeta Thrawn lead.
Nice! I've been amazed since I zeta'd Thrawn's lead, at how insane it is. There's a Zader, SA, DN, Thrawn, GK team on my shard, with speeds tuned so that SA leads into Vader. Once he does force crush, on full auto, I end the fight with pretty much full protection on everybody. Even with the cleanses and all, I take 3 or 4 turns for every one that the enemy takes.
Hi, one question, in a GAT, DT, GK, DN Shoreteam, if i swap TM with DT as initial move to fire off DTs Grenade, how much less Speed should DT have in comparison to Thrawn to guarantee that it is not Thrawns turn again after this Skill?
My Thrawn had 270-282 Speed (in dependance of how i mod him) and Deathtrooper is around 240.
So i would assume that my DT should have max of 220 speed to guarantee the above scenario, right? Is there some kind of formula to be taken into consideration?
Hi, one question, in a GAT, DT, GK, DN Shoreteam, if i swap TM with DT as initial move to fire off DTs Grenade, how much less Speed should DT have in comparison to Thrawn to guarantee that it is not Thrawns turn again after this Skill?
My Thrawn had 270-282 Speed (in dependance of how i mod him) and Deathtrooper is around 240.
So i would assume that my DT should have max of 220 speed to guarantee the above scenario, right? Is there some kind of formula to be taken into consideration?
Hello. Yes there is a nice easy formula. Since thrawn will gain 15% tm from shore after using GAC, you'll want thrawn to be less than 85% TM when the swap occurs. So, thrawn's speed * .85 and round down. That is the fastest you'll want dt. So if you run a 270 thrawn: 270 * .85 = 229.5. If dt is 230+ thrawn will tie with dt after the swap. A 229 speed dt and thrawn will be 99.9% tm.
thanks a lot, have to try this later on and get rid of tarkinlead again (fixed turnorder was my intention running tarkinlead but with this info i can get back to thrawn ), so i need to have 277 thrawn to be first before all other on my shard (except pesky Yodas) and a 235 DT which is 15 less than he is now, should be possible without problems
thanks a lot, have to try this later on and get rid of tarkinlead again (fixed turnorder was my intention running tarkinlead but with this info i can get back to thrawn ), so i need to have 277 thrawn to be first before all other on my shard (except pesky Yodas) and a 235 DT which is 15 less than he is now, should be possible without problems
277 is my thrawn and 235 is what I set my speed for the target of his GAC. So yup!
So I'm having trouble with enemy zeta nihilus. His hp down is causing my toons to use Thrawn cleanse every abvailible cooldown. While this isn't really a problem in the rest of the fight or at least I can deal with it. There's a really weird sequencing issue at turn 1.
Thrawn is my fastest and usually opens before an enemy turn. He gets debuffed from Thrawn leader and uses his HEAL cleanse not his leader, meaning he will swap a toon to 100% tm. He ALWAYS targets tarkin. Which is just fine with me since I want tarkin going first. Once it becomes tarkins turn he will use his DEBUFF move first. Followed immiduatly by his CLEANSE due to nihilis buff. This is screwing with my matches as tarkin goes to 50% tm and the enemy Rex or Chirrut just wiped the debuffs he applied and gives tenacity to resist his next turns aoe. My question is why he uses debuff and then cleanse next turn? He's debuffed in both turns yet he has priority of debuff in one but not aoe in the other.
So I'm having trouble with enemy zeta nihilus. His hp down is causing my toons to use Thrawn cleanse every abvailible cooldown. While this isn't really a problem in the rest of the fight or at least I can deal with it. There's a really weird sequencing issue at turn 1.
Thrawn is my fastest and usually opens before an enemy turn. He gets debuffed from Thrawn leader and uses his HEAL cleanse not his leader, meaning he will swap a toon to 100% tm. He ALWAYS targets tarkin. Which is just fine with me since I want tarkin going first. Once it becomes tarkins turn he will use his DEBUFF move first. Followed immiduatly by his CLEANSE due to nihilis buff. This is screwing with my matches as tarkin goes to 50% tm and the enemy Rex or Chirrut just wiped the debuffs he applied and gives tenacity to resist his next turns aoe. My question is why he uses debuff and then cleanse next turn? He's debuffed in both turns yet he has priority of debuff in one but not aoe in the other.
He probably resisted the initial attempt at the debuff from dn before tarkin used intimidation tactics. Tarkin will use maneuver if he has the debuff. If you are playing auto or defense, it's very fast are hard to tell.
This is in the bugs section and many, many thrawn users want the priorities adjusted.
@Indominable_J I'm running the same squad minus the zetas on Thrawn and doing very well.
I was planning on dropping my next zeta on Thrawn's unique and moving on to Veers but do you think Thrawn's lead is worth a zeta against non zaul squads?
@Indominable_J I'm running the same squad minus the zetas on Thrawn and doing very well.
I was planning on dropping my next zeta on Thrawn's unique and moving on to Veers but do you think Thrawn's lead is worth a zeta against non zaul squads?
The lead zeta is not absolutely required, but it's very nice to have. Against Zaul and Zader squads, you will be constantly regaining protection. But you also gain protection back with buffs, so when Shore taunts, everyone regains protection. When the crit immunity expires, you gain protection. Tarkin gives himself potency up, and gets protection with it. Potency up gets dispelled? Protection recovers.
@Indominable_J I'm running the same squad minus the zetas on Thrawn and doing very well.
I was planning on dropping my next zeta on Thrawn's unique and moving on to Veers but do you think Thrawn's lead is worth a zeta against non zaul squads?
The lead zeta is not absolutely required, but it's very nice to have. Against Zaul and Zader squads, you will be constantly regaining protection. But you also gain protection back with buffs, so when Shore taunts, everyone regains protection. When the crit immunity expires, you gain protection. Tarkin gives himself potency up, and gets protection with it. Potency up gets dispelled? Protection recovers.
Very helpful in the arena, but for anyone struggling with GW, this is great. I completed a GW using only Thrawn, DT, and ShT. All 3 finished with full protection.
What mods should I focus on for Shore when running Shawn? Protection since Thrawn will be giving him back 40%? Hp since he'll be healing the group for 24% of that? A mix of the two? Or something else?
Replies
I am trying to optimize my team. I am particularly interested in defense. Any advice would be appreciated. I also have a few questions at the bottom.
Currently I have used these two variants:
- zTarkin (lead) [Speed: 253; Zeta: unique only]
- zThrawn [Speed: 271; Zeta: unique only]
- DN [Speed: 205; No Zeta]
- ShoreTrooper [Speed: 201]
- GK [Speed: 175]
and- zVader (lead) [Speed: 195; Zeta: leader]
- zTarkin [Speed: 225; Zeta: unique only]
- zThrawn [Speed: 243; Zeta: unique only]
- DN [Speed: 205; No Zeta]
- Shoretrooper [Speed: 173]
All are 7* and G11, except Thrawn and Shoretrooper whom are both 6*. The speeds listed are adjusted based on leader ability. I can probably tweak the speeds some, but to increase them much more would mean to destroy set bonuses. Also, I can easily get 18 more speed on Kenobi by using a speed primary arrow, as currently I use a protection primary arrow with +12 speed secondary so he survives longer. I can also make shoretrooper faster simply by switching his mods with Kenobi's, as Kenobi's has more speed.Possible Additional Characters to Substitute in:
The strategy concepts for each of the above teams are as follows:
Tarkin Lead: The reason for using Tarkin lead is simply to outspeed the enemy. I face several variations of Chaze based teams. They all have between 246-259 speed on their Chirrut and around 220 on their Rex. My thought is that if their Chirrut goes first, and they are on offense, they could use Chirrut's cleanse and get tenacity up right away (or if I ever applied the zeta to DN's unique Chirrut's AI would cleanse and tenacity up). Tenacity up would prevent Tarkin's debuffs. This would prevent him from going twice, and likely prevent DN from cooldown increasing everyone. I don't think I can naturally get Thrawn's speed to 260. If I reorganize my mods, I might be able to, but it would definitely destroy mod set synergies, and probably also lower the speeds on the rest of the team. So by using Tarkin, I can ensure I always outspeed the enemy Chirrut. I also face a QGJ lead team with a Yoda who has an effective 279 speed. Currently, this is still faster than my Thrawn, and the tenacity up he applies does mess me up. I can still win on offense, but I am sure he obliterates me on defense. I might be able to eek out another 9 speed though on him to outspeed the Yoda.
Vader Lead: The idea here was simply the additional TM reduction on damage, and that his leader also affects DN. Initially, Tarkin could TM reduce everyone a bit more, and then DN would as well, followed by more from Vader. The sticking dots is secondary, but does help with ensuring that DN gets his cooldown increase on everyone the second time around (ideally, the first time should be fine from Tarkin's debuffs). The downside is without the additional speed, against many teams they can get tenacity up applied before Thrawn/Tarkin go.
My Questions:
I am currently farming Death Trooper as he can make the team stronger for obvious reasons. But I am wondering about the other choices people have put in there.
I see some people saying Gen Veers works great, but looking at his kit, I really don't see what he is adding. His ability block aoe is only 55%, so it isn't that reliable I wouldn't think. The 15% crit damage is okay, but I almost don't want anyone to crit, because of the Rex leaders. The 10% protection and 50% TM boost only apply after you kill someone, and even then, it would just affect the troopers.
Krennic seems useful. As a leader the ability blocks on crit seems like it could be pretty great. As a non-leader he still buffs up DT's damage, and the AoE with stagger should hinder enemies even more. However, I am a ways off from having DT geared up, and even then I would need to zeta him, or Krennic will likely die.
How good is Storm Trooper? The 10% TM reduction on being hit seems like it would be pretty great. The only downside is that there are a lot of DN that can dispel him, and he has a while before he can retaunt. The exposes might be nice though in the meanwhile. I was thinking of replacing GK with Storm Trooper, but didn't want to waste the gear if he is only so so. Especially, since I still need to gear DT, and he might not even have a slot once DT is placed in, unless I take out Shoretrooper or DN. I saw some videos a few pages back where StormTrooper seemed pretty decent, but they were double tanks. If I keep DN, StormTrooper would be the sole tank, and if I used the double tank, I would have to replace DN and lose the double cooldown increase.
Alternatively, has anyone tried using ST Han? No empire synergy, but the TM boost from hit could potentially make DN, DT, and everyone else, go a lot quicker. The downside would be that Thrawn would also get this TM boost and lose his fracture sooner.
I don't really understand why everyone loves Thrawn's leader so much. Without the speed boost from Tarkin, won't the enemy get tenacity up before you go? Both Yoda and Chirrut have faster natural speeds than Thrawn/Tarkin. So assuming equivalent mods, they should be faster. Also, I get that there is TM boost from gaining/losing status effects, and against other empire/sith teams that would be great. But there really isn't that much in the way of debuffs being thrown out from most Chaze based teams and Jedi teams (other than from R2), and they seem to be the majority of the enemy comps out there. Enemy DNs will debuff, but that is on your character's turn, they are already at 100%, so no gain. Speaking of DN, won't his debuffs on your character's turn cause them to use the Maneuver ability, and destroying the whole opening moves sequence?
Thrawn's lead is great for several reasons. First, tenacity up only comes on a cleanse, so when you are on offense, they're not using it to start. Second, typically you're using DT on your team. His opening move is his AOE, which either dispels buffs or increases cooldowns. So if tenacity up has been applied, you remove it (against a zQGJ team, you want to use Tarkin's AOE first to clear the foresight). Third, you get so many turns, it generally doesn't matter -- you are constantly gaining TM when there are debuffs on the other team (speed down from Baze, DN's unique, whatever else they might throw at you); gaining 15% tm whenever you use a special from Thrawn, gaining another 15% from Shore, etc... Yes, DN's unique causes you to use Maneuver, but it's actually not that huge a deal -- it's a special ability, so between Thrawn's unique, Shore's unique, and the ability itself, they're gaining 80% tm back immediately. I run zzThrawn, zDT, DK, Tarkin, Shore, and can auto anyone I fight, despite Maneuver being used.
Krennic lead is too dependent on crits and basically can't work without Tarkin -- in this age of Kenobi spamming crit immunity, you need to be able to apply debuffs without damage so you can subsequently crit before they get crit immunity up. He is a very solid option as a team member though, particularly with the zeta on DT. He can survive thanks to the perma-crit immunity, and can give DT a whole lot of extra turns. Plus, if someone targets down DT, Krennic can bring him back.
So, it might actually be a good thing that I held off on zetaing the unique on my DN. Because if their Chirrut outspeeds my Thrawn/Tarkin, and he goes first, DN's zeta unique will apply health down on Chirrut, and he will cleanse himself and give tenacity up to everyone else right off the bat.
Still though, against a zQGJ with a Yoda, Yoda is going to go first and tenacity up everyone. Tarkin might clear the foresight, and then DT will clear the tenacity up, but there still won't be any debuffs to guarantee DN's cooldown increase. I guess that is just something that has to be dealt with initially, and the TM generation from R2/JKA's debuffs will allow your team to get ahead and apply debuffs the second time around.
I still find it surprising that the 20% TM generation from Thrawn's lead outweighs the flat speed increase from Tarkin though. I can definitely see it outweighing against a debuff oriented team for sure. But against a typical triple cleanse team, only R2 is doing an aoe debuff. Baze should likely be fractured, and even when he goes he is probably just single targeting a tank. DN's health down on the unique only applies at the start of someone's turn when they already have 100% so that shouldn't add anything. But the dot on DN's turn will. It just doesn't seem like there are enough debuffs to make it overtake the direct speed increase. But there is also the 15% max protection and 25% offense too consider too I suppose.
With all that said, the maneuever ability might actually be a benefit, and not such a detriment like I originally thought. One thing I have noticed under Tarkin's lead is that once the initial sequence of attacks happen, everyone's specials are burned and everyone has to use basic attacks for round. This ends up letting Thrawn take a turn and dropping fracture. The usage of the maneuver ability probably would allow Thrawn to keep fracture up longer, and they still get 80% TM back like you said.
I had not even considered slotting Royal Guard in as a second tank. His special that gives defense up and health up would boost everyone's TM by 40%. That is pretty substantial, let alone his stuns.
A maxed Shoretrooper is virtually unkillable under Thrawn lead. He is pretty crucial to Thrawn lead because while Shore is taunting, there is extra TM gain which helps with all the Maneuvering going on.
Some people like to use Shore and Storm together but it seems like it takes away too much DPS to have two tanks with Thrawn.
Tarkin lead is situationally better on offense because of first turn advantage but losing protection regeneration and 20% offense is an appreciable difference.
I clearly need to go to sleep. I am reading and analyzing everything incorrectly the last several hours. haha
If your average speed is 220, then the 28 speed from Tarkin is a little less than a 13% boost. Every time you gain the 20% TM, that's effectively a 25% boost, regardless of your speed. It's pretty powerful.
Guess that was inevitable since I accidentally zetad deathtrooper unique, and krennic leader. Slowly I am totally maxing the whole empire faction. By accident.
I did full auto battle and didn't target any toons so it should be a fair matchup
His Thrawn gets first move of course but after that it was total domination in my favor.
2 mins and I didn't even see an expose from the zeta leader lol. Even nihilus got blocked and didn't kill anyone.
(Edit)
Was going to add images but apparently the site I was using requires a premium account to show the image here. Basically I had half or above protection on all my characters and I don't even have a zeta Thrawn lead.
The imperial trooper synergy makes them very durable, especially with Stormtrooper in there, and the expose is surprisingly helpful with DPS.
I don't even have Thrawn's leader ability zeta'd yet (1 zeta away!). Seems to hold decently on defense as well.
I also like that fact I'm the only one running full empire on my shard.
https://swgoh.gg/u/cambo/
I've been using this setup also lately but with snow instead of storm...
Super fun team and pretty top notch. Zarriss teams can be challenging but it stil wins more often than not on auto vs pretty much everything
Now that I have EP, I'm looking to start an empire/sith squad, but not sure what the best team with my current resources would be.
I have 6* EP, 6* Vader, 5* but close to 6 RG, 4* TFP, Tarkin. Snowtrooper and Maul, all gear 8 except the 4* toons but can get them up fairly quickly.
I'm on a pretty young shard, started in May, and the majority of my competition runs different variations of Wiggs, Chaze, and Lando with a couple DN lead sith teams here and there.
My top two toons are 7* Kylo and Boba, so I feel like one of them should probably be in there too, at least for now.
Where do I go from here?
swgoh.gg/u/synth
"if any enemies are Fractured, Fractured enemies lose 15% Turn Meter".
But since fractured enemy has 0 speed, what's the advantage of that?
OK, I was thinking of something like that.
Also, raid bosses only have half speed, not 0 speed, so it's another source of TM reduction for that.
I'd go Boba (L), Kylo, Palp, TFP, Tank to start. RG might suffice as a tank for now, but ultimately you'll be better served with someone like shoretrooper.
Nice! I've been amazed since I zeta'd Thrawn's lead, at how insane it is. There's a Zader, SA, DN, Thrawn, GK team on my shard, with speeds tuned so that SA leads into Vader. Once he does force crush, on full auto, I end the fight with pretty much full protection on everybody. Even with the cleanses and all, I take 3 or 4 turns for every one that the enemy takes.
Hi, one question, in a GAT, DT, GK, DN Shoreteam, if i swap TM with DT as initial move to fire off DTs Grenade, how much less Speed should DT have in comparison to Thrawn to guarantee that it is not Thrawns turn again after this Skill?
My Thrawn had 270-282 Speed (in dependance of how i mod him) and Deathtrooper is around 240.
So i would assume that my DT should have max of 220 speed to guarantee the above scenario, right? Is there some kind of formula to be taken into consideration?
Hello. Yes there is a nice easy formula. Since thrawn will gain 15% tm from shore after using GAC, you'll want thrawn to be less than 85% TM when the swap occurs. So, thrawn's speed * .85 and round down. That is the fastest you'll want dt. So if you run a 270 thrawn: 270 * .85 = 229.5. If dt is 230+ thrawn will tie with dt after the swap. A 229 speed dt and thrawn will be 99.9% tm.
277 is my thrawn and 235 is what I set my speed for the target of his GAC. So yup!
Thrawn is my fastest and usually opens before an enemy turn. He gets debuffed from Thrawn leader and uses his HEAL cleanse not his leader, meaning he will swap a toon to 100% tm. He ALWAYS targets tarkin. Which is just fine with me since I want tarkin going first. Once it becomes tarkins turn he will use his DEBUFF move first. Followed immiduatly by his CLEANSE due to nihilis buff. This is screwing with my matches as tarkin goes to 50% tm and the enemy Rex or Chirrut just wiped the debuffs he applied and gives tenacity to resist his next turns aoe. My question is why he uses debuff and then cleanse next turn? He's debuffed in both turns yet he has priority of debuff in one but not aoe in the other.
He probably resisted the initial attempt at the debuff from dn before tarkin used intimidation tactics. Tarkin will use maneuver if he has the debuff. If you are playing auto or defense, it's very fast are hard to tell.
This is in the bugs section and many, many thrawn users want the priorities adjusted.
I was planning on dropping my next zeta on Thrawn's unique and moving on to Veers but do you think Thrawn's lead is worth a zeta against non zaul squads?
The lead zeta is not absolutely required, but it's very nice to have. Against Zaul and Zader squads, you will be constantly regaining protection. But you also gain protection back with buffs, so when Shore taunts, everyone regains protection. When the crit immunity expires, you gain protection. Tarkin gives himself potency up, and gets protection with it. Potency up gets dispelled? Protection recovers.