I used Cody lead over Rex for my 5 battles yesterday as well as my first few this morning and I think I'll be switching back for the afternoon and onwards.
Unfortunately, I don't feel like Cody's defense buff (and staying alive) is a good enough reason to lower my other 4 clones' health pools. I haven't seen him get 1 shot out the gate in the last 24 hours but now the other clones are instead haha. Rex's HP and TM boost as lead means the difference between a clone in the red with full TM and a dead clone who never participates in the battle.
Falling 40+ ranks instead of the usual 10-15 also didn't excite me much either xD Either I just have a target on my head with Cody as leader or people had a ton of fun killing 2-3 clones before they moved last night lol.
You can't imagine how grateful I am to actually be able to communicate with the devs, and to have you communicate back. Thank you so much for that! After more testing, I find my observations about what still needs to happen with Cody as follows:
Right now, the AI uses his AOE that is super weak and needs two crits to stun... when there's only one opponent left. I'm assuming that's an oversight and not working as intended.
Also, if you intend for Cody's leader ability to be usable, it needs to have some kind of additional advantage to it.
PLEASE though--the most important broken thing for me at this point is Rex needing to prioritize Squad Discipline over Subdue. This would help Cody even more than fixing the (leader->unique and buffing echo's by the book)
I'm getting targeted on defense, b/c my clone TM synergy just never gets going due to poor AI performance. I tried, just for fun, playing it that way myself and OH THE BLOOD BATH that was painful.
To summarize, in order of priority, the following would get Cody back to the premium toon that you want him to be (and probably ignite the pocketbooks of some clone lovers who have been holding back):
Prioritize Rex's Squad Discipline over Subdue
Buff the percent heal of Echo's by the book
Change the clone-synergy-dependent defense portion of Cody's leader ability to an unique ability instead
Fix Cody's AI so that it does NOT use AT-TE ability with only one enemy left
Change the second part of Cody's leader ability to "and Clone allies gain 15% [turn meter? evasion? defense? potency? critical damage? accuracy? critical avoidance? tenacity?--one of these things] on critical hit, and other allies gain half that amount"
I think making Cody's leader ability a passive is a good start. Unfortunately it only addresses his survivability. Sans 5's, the entire Clone squad has the health of a class-cannon or high damage character, but they don't have the damage. Sarge's basic hits hard so he's close at least but he'll never see anything over 15K. I think the best I've seen from Rex's Subdue is about 12k (total). It stands to reason that because of their actual roles in the squad, they need more HP; assuming their HP doesn't change at all. I do think the damage penalty on Cody's 212th and Echo's assist is a bit too high for them, but aside from that; if the focus on the Clones is TM then their damage is fine assuming that their survivability improves.
Today is Saturday and I've tested about all I can with Cody and the Clones and I'm ready to start putting together a summary of our thoughts regarding Cody AND the Clones as a whole. Based on what I've read from other's and my own experience here's what I think.
Cody
1. 212th Attack penalty reduction
2. AT-TE Cannon remove the stun and either add the ability to inflict offense down or TM gain for the Clones.
3. Leader ability: Make the defense gain from Clones a passive ability, perhaps replace it with something to increase TM
Rex
1. AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
2. AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
3. See bullets 1 and 2
Echo
1. Reduce damage penalty on assist
2. Improve AI's use of Emp
Clones Overall
1. Increase total HP (health & protection) for Cody, Rex, Clone Sargent, and Echo; increase to about 30K - 32K
I doubt we will see a generic clone hp buff but if we address them as they are it's too true that a full clone squad isn't pheasable right now. Mainly due to lack of survival and DISPEL. I've had to drop my maxed echo for a gear 7 sun Fac for some actual reliable dispel. I mean if Cody had dispel on his ATTE cannon I might freakin press the ability now and then lol. I concur with all points @Darth_Jay77 especially the Squad Discipline being used on CD like Jawa engineer for droid synergy. And the separation of codys survivablity being dependent on leader ability. Since clones are all about TM advantage and HK 47 exists with a similar leader ability, why not make clones their equal and opposite.
Cody Leader
((All clones gain 25% crit chance and reduce enemy turn meter by 15% on critical hit.)
And set his defense perk to a passive that might effect more than just himself to a lesser degree
Cody gains 50% defense per living clone ally and other allies gain half this amount
And set his defense perk to a passive that might effect more than just himself to a lesser degree @CG_Kozispoon@CG_Conduit23
Yeah, if they can't increase the HP on the Clones then extending Cody's +defense buff to all Clones would actually be a pretty nice survivability buff.
As a proud owner of the 5 clones (4 7*) and sad for not being able to run a full clone team (I will still try in the future) I'd like to say that:
A) the clone team needs more health/protection. Even the post here about cody being somewhat more durable now as leader, the matter is that he is only so as leader AND while the rest of the team is other 4 clones AND they are all alive, problem being that Cody's leadership isn't all that good. With the exception of Fives this all team needs a buff of health/protection. the lack of a tank that taunts pressures this team for a reliable dispeller someone "clone" B2 or sunfac. Echo doesn't cut it. Bad AI and even with a good one too long of a cooldown.
C) Not really competitive damage wise, when compared with the "meta".
Concluding, more health/protection, with fives being the exception; a reliable dispell OR a taunt tank, I would prefer the first, making echo emp grenade a b2 mow dow kinda of attack;improved damage via the assists on one another (a good trademark of the clones, they may individually not be great damage wise but together assisting eachother they would excel) this would also solve any issue of people abusing a buff to a clone by using just one of them.
Its appalling to me that this team, that is clearly intended to be a TEAM, isn't "one of" the meta teams considering 3 out of 5 of the characters are chromium/shipments exclusive and I'm not trying to say they should just own everything because they are pay to play... But if I'm paying (well I did that already) I'd like them to at least be on par with the rest of the meta.. Wedge / droids / palpatine's/ etc. (yes I do know clones wreck droids but their overall performance is better).
A lot of great suggestions and good points keep being brought up! I was curious about where they fall in terms of their damage output compared with their effective hp (when compared to the other characters running around) so I wrote some down....
My clones currently look like:
rex: gear 11
Effective Health: 35,346
echo: gear 10
Effective Health: 34,199
cody gear 9
Effective Health: 21,716
sarge gear 10
Effective Health: 30,781
fives gear 9
Effective Health: 51436
Common opponents for me look like:
Rey: gear 10
Effective Health: 34,373
Anakin: gear 10
Effective Health: 40,871
QGJ: gear 11
Effective Health: 39,838
IG 86: gear 10
Effective Health: 35,617
IG 88: gear 10
Effective Health: 27,691
GS: gear 10
Effective Health: 36,910
At the end of the day, I've never seen my clones land a blow for more than 8-9k and they tend to have equal to less effective health than characters like:
Rey: has foresight after most blows and hits for 12-30k depending on attack
Anakin: basic hits for 10-12k and applies useful debuffs and I've received AOE crits for 15k per team member
IG88 and 86: basics both hit for 10k + and then there are their specials...
I got distracted this week with the rebel event so Cody should be gear 10 soon however I am not expecting his protection to jump 15k to catch any of the other clones or opponents in terms of effective health - and he definitely doesn't hit as hard as any of the opponents listed above.
I don't mind seeing the difference in leadership between Cody and Rex. It leads to some interesting squad build options when it comes to mods, with Rex being the obvious go to for defense and TM gain, and Cody for damage. However Cody at least needs an HP buff to bring him in line with CSP1 Echo and Rex.
Further, as previously suggested, adding some sort of TM manipulation (either bonusing clones by speed up, or penalizing opponents with speed down) to AT-TE cannon fits thematically with the rest of the squad, and would give clones a unique play style while remaining average in the damage and health departments. The stun potential, as low as it might be would be gravy, not the reason to use the attack. Additionally I think this would improve Echo's By the Book, not in heal strength directly, but by function of getting a potential second basic attack by squad members before opponents go.
Further, a slight reduction to the 212th attack damage penalty seems also in line, especially compared to other assist attacks
Cody is truly only good in a clone heavy squad, and so it should be. Reinforce that strength and don't make him a liability in use in that environment.
I'd rather see a taunt for clones tacked onto Plo, who could probably use some love himself, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a taunting Jedi.
I don't mind seeing the difference in leadership between Cody and Rex. It leads to some interesting squad build options when it comes to mods, with Rex being the obvious go to for defense and TM gain, and Cody for damage. However Cody at least needs an HP buff to bring him in line with CSP1 Echo and Rex.
Further, as previously suggested, adding some sort of TM manipulation (either bonusing clones by speed up, or penalizing opponents with speed down) to AT-TE cannon fits thematically with the rest of the squad, and would give clones a unique play style while remaining average in the damage and health departments. The stun potential, as low as it might be would be gravy, not the reason to use the attack. Additionally I think this would improve Echo's By the Book, not in heal strength directly, but by function of getting a potential second basic attack by squad members before opponents go.
Further, a slight reduction to the 212th attack damage penalty seems also in line, especially compared to other assist attacks
Cody is truly only good in a clone heavy squad, and so it should be. Reinforce that strength and don't make him a liability in use in that environment.
I'd rather see a taunt for clones tacked onto Plo, who could probably use some love himself, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a taunting Jedi.
Giving Plo a passive taunt thats restricted to Clones would be interesting. But I think it has to be something passive or its not that useful. His 3rd ability is great for Clones, so it would be cool to see PK become useful.
I was meaning for Plo to have a Taunt period, maybe tacked onto his second ability since its damage is pretty bad anyway. Much like how JKA is clone friendly, but not limited, I was thinking the same for PK. PK becomes an option for clone squads wanting taunt, but good elsewhere. His third ability does grant TM to everyone, just twice as much TM for clones.
Like if PKs second ability kept the same damage, became the first priority in the AI script, cool down of three and taunt for two turns.
I say this because PK as a standalone probably needs more love to become useful more than the clones need more things to be useful.
I was meaning for Plo to have a Taunt period, maybe tacked onto his second ability since its damage is pretty bad anyway. Much like how JKA is clone friendly, but not limited, I was thinking the same for PK. PK becomes an option for clone squads wanting taunt, but good elsewhere. His third ability does grant TM to everyone, just twice as much TM for clones.
Like if PKs second ability kept the same damage, became the first priority in the AI script, cool down of three and taunt for two turns.
I say this because PK as a standalone probably needs more love to become useful more than the clones need more things to be useful.
I can see an arguement for both, Im more in favor of it being passive. Whether its 5's or PK I dont care but one of them. The reason for the passive is because with the speed of droid teams, speed Old Ben, and no Palpatine, Rex and the squad can be ability blocked before you can even taunt andn1 to 2 will be dead before you can taunt. The passive is almost a must.
I was meaning for Plo to have a Taunt period, maybe tacked onto his second ability since its damage is pretty bad anyway. Much like how JKA is clone friendly, but not limited, I was thinking the same for PK. PK becomes an option for clone squads wanting taunt, but good elsewhere. His third ability does grant TM to everyone, just twice as much TM for clones.
Like if PKs second ability kept the same damage, became the first priority in the AI script, cool down of three and taunt for two turns.
I say this because PK as a standalone probably needs more love to become useful more than the clones need more things to be useful.
I can see an arguement for both, Im more in favor of it being passive. Whether its 5's or PK I dont care but one of them. The reason for the passive is because with the speed of droid teams, speed Old Ben, and no Palpatine, Rex and the squad can be ability blocked before you can even taunt andn1 to 2 will be dead before you can taunt. The passive is almost a must.
In that, I would say PK. I'd say overall clones are pretty good outside of some further tweaks to Cody as discussed here. Plo could be the light side/Jedi RG as he brings little else to the table.
I was meaning for Plo to have a Taunt period, maybe tacked onto his second ability since its damage is pretty bad anyway. Much like how JKA is clone friendly, but not limited, I was thinking the same for PK. PK becomes an option for clone squads wanting taunt, but good elsewhere. His third ability does grant TM to everyone, just twice as much TM for clones.
Like if PKs second ability kept the same damage, became the first priority in the AI script, cool down of three and taunt for two turns.
I say this because PK as a standalone probably needs more love to become useful more than the clones need more things to be useful.
I can see an arguement for both, Im more in favor of it being passive. Whether its 5's or PK I dont care but one of them. The reason for the passive is because with the speed of droid teams, speed Old Ben, and no Palpatine, Rex and the squad can be ability blocked before you can even taunt andn1 to 2 will be dead before you can taunt. The passive is almost a must.
In that, I would say PK. I'd say overall clones are pretty good outside of some further tweaks to Cody as discussed here. Plo could be the light side/Jedi RG as he brings little else to the table.
Just have to be careful with how a passive is managed, we dont need an RG that works with everybody, just limit it to Clones or maybe Jedi too.
Happy Monday! As you can see there's been a lot of testing and discussion going on with the Cody updates and just the Clones in-general. I think we all agree that there are still issues with Cody, that you might be addressing already, and really the Clones as a whole.
Cody
Cody's recent "soft updates" we think were definitely a step in the right direction. Have 212th Attack go first on defense is a big bonus for Cody. The defense bonus buff was definitely positive, more than I thought it would be. Couple points on Cody:
1. His 212th Attack needs a reduction in the damage penalty. When you look at other damage-oriented characters like Rey, IG86, Biggs & Wedge combo, etc, the damage is modestly more than what Cody does and has a shorter cooldown without any Crit requirements
2. AT-TE Cannon: It's a cool ability and the stun is "nice" but kind of pales in-comparison to other characters with a stun. Clones seem to have a TM gain theme and also lack in survivability. Having the AOE ability to help with one of those areas would be more ideal. Either have some kind of squad TM gain on the AOE crit, or inflict offense down to help with survivability perhaps.
3. Leader ability: If other Clone allies could benefit from the defense gain bonus that would really help to improve survivability. Also, by having Cody's only means of survival tagged to a leader bonus, it pigeon-holes the squad into having him at leader. If his leader bonus was more of a passive bonus, it would allow more flexibility in using Cody outside of that role. Lastly, this bonus requires a large Clone squad, perhaps at least 4 Clones to really make this work. Unfortunately, the Clones can't survive as a squad in Arena that well with those numbers and their current survivability level.
4. Health: He cannot be used outside of the leader role. The leader defense gain ability would serve him well as passive if increasing his total health (HP & Prot) would throw him out-of-balance.
Clones Overall
Using Cody with his leader buff kind of forced us to look at the Clones as a whole squad rather than just an individual. Overall what we found is that survivability is very poor.
- Rex: He is so critical to the squad that it's not even funny. His AI needs to prioritize Squad Discipline. Aside from the Tenacity buff it gives them TM to try and setup some tempo for the squad. It would be cool to see his personal Tenacity levels increased about 10% points so he has some chance at resisting a debuff.
- Echo: This is a tough one because it seems like some of the logic for managing his debuff is more complicated than it seems as Ventress and QGJ suffer from the same issue. He needs to hold that EMP Grenade for a Taunt if possible. Secondly, his assist penalty can afford to be reduced; an assist for 1k to 1.5k is not all that great unless maybe the assist gave the Clone he assisted some TM. Lastly, I think many of us feel his heal is not overly relevant when you look at the scope of incoming damage.
- CT-5555: We'd like to see him possibly get involved with some kind of passive taunt that is restricted to Clones or somehow absorb damage from a Clone that is at 50% HP or less. It is so easy to kill off the other Clones before they even move, they need some help here.
- Plo Koon: Somebody brought up Plo Koon's synergy with the Clones and I think it was kind of forgotten. If 5's can't get the passive Taunt, then perhaps Plo Koon could and maybe even have it restricted to Clones and Jedi since the Jedi don't have a taunt and with the recent Palpatine addition the Jedi also need a taunt. It would be fun to get Plo Koon involved like your recent updates with Anakin allowed us to do with Clones.
Sorry that was so long-winded, I tried to summarize the best I could. I know we'd love to hear your feedback on our findings. Can't wait to see how you finish-up Cody's updates!
I love the point about 212 attack being the highest cool down in the game , relying on a specific team all being alive and still doing less damage than Rey / wiggs / lando. Hehe!
Happy Monday! As you can see there's been a lot of testing and discussion going on with the Cody updates and just the Clones in-general. I think we all agree that there are still issues with Cody, that you might be addressing already, and really the Clones as a whole.
Cody
Cody's recent "soft updates" we think were definitely a step in the right direction. Have 212th Attack go first on defense is a big bonus for Cody. The defense bonus buff was definitely positive, more than I thought it would be. Couple points on Cody:
1. His 212th Attack needs a reduction in the damage penalty. When you look at other damage-oriented characters like Rey, IG86, Biggs & Wedge combo, etc, the damage is modestly more than what Cody does and has a shorter cooldown without any Crit requirements
2. AT-TE Cannon: It's a cool ability and the stun is "nice" but kind of pales in-comparison to other characters with a stun. Clones seem to have a TM gain theme and also lack in survivability. Having the AOE ability to help with one of those areas would be more ideal. Either have some kind of squad TM gain on the AOE crit, or inflict offense down to help with survivability perhaps.
3. Leader ability: If other Clone allies could benefit from the defense gain bonus that would really help to improve survivability. Also, by having Cody's only means of survival tagged to a leader bonus, it pigeon-holes the squad into having him at leader. If his leader bonus was more of a passive bonus, it would allow more flexibility in using Cody outside of that role. Lastly, this bonus requires a large Clone squad, perhaps at least 4 Clones to really make this work. Unfortunately, the Clones can't survive as a squad in Arena that well with those numbers and their current survivability level.
4. Health: He cannot be used outside of the leader role. The leader defense gain ability would serve him well as passive if increasing his total health (HP & Prot) would throw him out-of-balance.
Clones Overall
Using Cody with his leader buff kind of forced us to look at the Clones as a whole squad rather than just an individual. Overall what we found is that survivability is very poor.
- Rex: He is so critical to the squad that it's not even funny. His AI needs to prioritize Squad Discipline. Aside from the Tenacity buff it gives them TM to try and setup some tempo for the squad. It would be cool to see his personal Tenacity levels increased about 10% points so he has some chance at resisting a debuff.
- Echo: This is a tough one because it seems like some of the logic for managing his debuff is more complicated than it seems as Ventress and QGJ suffer from the same issue. He needs to hold that EMP Grenade for a Taunt if possible. Secondly, his assist penalty can afford to be reduced; an assist for 1k to 1.5k is not all that great unless maybe the assist gave the Clone he assisted some TM. Lastly, I think many of us feel his heal is not overly relevant when you look at the scope of incoming damage.
- CT-5555: We'd like to see him possibly get involved with some kind of passive taunt that is restricted to Clones or somehow absorb damage from a Clone that is at 50% HP or less. It is so easy to kill off the other Clones before they even move, they need some help here.
- Plo Koon: Somebody brought up Plo Koon's synergy with the Clones and I think it was kind of forgotten. If 5's can't get the passive Taunt, then perhaps Plo Koon could and maybe even have it restricted to Clones and Jedi since the Jedi don't have a taunt and with the recent Palpatine addition the Jedi also need a taunt. It would be fun to get Plo Koon involved like your recent updates with Anakin allowed us to do with Clones.
Sorry that was so long-winded, I tried to summarize the best I could. I know we'd love to hear your feedback on our findings. Can't wait to see how you finish-up Cody's updates!
Fully agree with all stated. With the recent Anakin option for a leader it seems unfair to not be able to include Cody in my squad under Ani lead since Cody can be one shot by Rey turn 1 sometimes even when he is the leader
Hey Kozi, just wanted to follow-up to see if you had a chance to review any of the feedback we compiled. Also, it would be very cool to hear what you and the dev team has to say about Cody and any hints as to what updates are coming would be great too. Also, how do you feel about our suggestions regarding Rex and giving the Clones some kind of passive taunt via 5's or Plo Koon? Best Regards - J
Definitely feedback that's gotten the team talking, as well as agreeing to much of it! While I personally would love to see nothing but focus and efforts on Cody and the clones (all clones all da time!), the time needed to implement and test the changes we'd like to make to clones and do it right has grown in scope to the point that it may be a while before the team can address them. Still, we appreciate your patience as well as your passion to this character.
Definitely feedback that's gotten the team talking, as well as agreeing to much of it! While I personally would love to see nothing but focus and efforts on Cody and the clones (all clones all da time!), the time needed to implement and test the changes we'd like to make to clones and do it right has grown in scope to the point that it may be a while before the team can address them. Still, we appreciate your patience as well as your passion to this character.
Hey @CG_Kozispoon thanks for taking the time to reply. I think we all recognize that you're very busy with new content and new characters too; we're excited for whatever can be done. You mentioned before that the last update was a "soft" update. Is there another piece of that update coming still or is that the additional work you mentioned above? Also, what about the change to Rex's AI. Thoughts and feasibility? Thanks again! - J
Hats off to @Darth_Jay77 once again and to all dev's who are actually taking their time to listen to feedback.
My dream would be to see this arena ranking
#1 Clones
#2 Wiggs
#3 Palpador
#4 Droids
#5 Rebels
#6-100 - Mortals
The Clones are right on the edge of being competitive. The biggest problem is really Rex's AI and their overall survivability. I was testing something today and my Echo with 39K modded total health, got 1-shotted from 100% protection by a Rey's FOB with offense up. I also watched a Biggs + Wedge + EP assist attack drop Rex from 100% as well. The have no means of damage mitigation at all. Rex's AI change helps you to not drop from top 5 to top 30 overnight. The survivability would make the Clones a more impactful team overall.
Definitely feedback that's gotten the team talking, as well as agreeing to much of it! While I personally would love to see nothing but focus and efforts on Cody and the clones (all clones all da time!), the time needed to implement and test the changes we'd like to make to clones and do it right has grown in scope to the point that it may be a while before the team can address them. Still, we appreciate your patience as well as your passion to this character.
Hey @CG_Kozispoon So glad that you are watching and listening to this and you are intellectually... spritiually ...emotionally in the same space about clones - Clones 4 life!! It makes me feel really engaged in the game... But I think i have a lot more passion than patience (but can still be patient) ... I hope you are not too over worked with the big launches you have and get some space time to focus on the fun that is clones and balance them out when you've got your big launches done and dusted. in the mean time a few light changes would definitely not go amiss to keep us clone players feeling loved!
Looks like it's going to be a while. I'm quitting the game; difficult to get back once you've been off a while. Wish I could get back some of what I spent! You spend for enjoyment, and in this case, you invest in future enjoyment. But what if there is an indefinite period of lack of enjoyment and in fact frustration? It's difficult to do a qualitative analysis like this, but for me it's just time to cut my losses. Hope you all enjoy, and that Cody becomes cool, Echo excellent, Fives fearsome, Sargent strong, and Rex's AI reliable
@CG_Kozispoon I know when we talk about "just changing Rex's AI" to prioritize Squad Discipline first, we probably over-simplify what's probably a more complicated process then we realize. I don't mean to over-simplify what you do beca
Looks like it's going to be a while. I'm quitting the game; difficult to get back once you've been off a while. Wish I could get back some of what I spent! You spend for enjoyment, and in this case, you invest in future enjoyment. But what if there is an indefinite period of lack of enjoyment and in fact frustration? It's difficult to do a qualitative analysis like this, but for me it's just time to cut my losses. Hope you all enjoy, and that Cody becomes cool, Echo excellent, Fives fearsome, Sargent strong, and Rex's AI reliable
Cheers
The last Cody update was a "soft update" so maybe there's a 2nd part to that coming soon, maybe not too long. Trying to stay positive.
I would be happy with a 25-30% hp increase so he doesn't get one shotted when out of a leader position. Wolffe or heavy should be taunters if they release more clones.
I don't have Rex but I'm all for him opening with sqaud discipline. The only thing I ask is if this change is made to rex, can we please have Yoda start with battle meditation as well?
I don't have Rex but I'm all for him opening with sqaud discipline. The only thing I ask is if this change is made to rex, can we please have Yoda start with battle meditation as well?
I don't have Rex but I'm all for him opening with sqaud discipline. The only thing I ask is if this change is made to rex, can we please have Yoda start with battle meditation as well?
I play a Rex on my arena shard and he always opens with Squad Discipline as of the last two weeks, anyone else?
Replies
I used Cody lead over Rex for my 5 battles yesterday as well as my first few this morning and I think I'll be switching back for the afternoon and onwards.
Unfortunately, I don't feel like Cody's defense buff (and staying alive) is a good enough reason to lower my other 4 clones' health pools. I haven't seen him get 1 shot out the gate in the last 24 hours but now the other clones are instead haha. Rex's HP and TM boost as lead means the difference between a clone in the red with full TM and a dead clone who never participates in the battle.
Falling 40+ ranks instead of the usual 10-15 also didn't excite me much either xD Either I just have a target on my head with Cody as leader or people had a ton of fun killing 2-3 clones before they moved last night lol.
You can't imagine how grateful I am to actually be able to communicate with the devs, and to have you communicate back. Thank you so much for that! After more testing, I find my observations about what still needs to happen with Cody as follows:
Right now, the AI uses his AOE that is super weak and needs two crits to stun... when there's only one opponent left. I'm assuming that's an oversight and not working as intended.
Also, if you intend for Cody's leader ability to be usable, it needs to have some kind of additional advantage to it.
PLEASE though--the most important broken thing for me at this point is Rex needing to prioritize Squad Discipline over Subdue. This would help Cody even more than fixing the (leader->unique and buffing echo's by the book)
I'm getting targeted on defense, b/c my clone TM synergy just never gets going due to poor AI performance. I tried, just for fun, playing it that way myself and OH THE BLOOD BATH that was painful.
To summarize, in order of priority, the following would get Cody back to the premium toon that you want him to be (and probably ignite the pocketbooks of some clone lovers who have been holding back):
Regards!
--NumberMyDays
Good feedback @Josh_K
I think making Cody's leader ability a passive is a good start. Unfortunately it only addresses his survivability. Sans 5's, the entire Clone squad has the health of a class-cannon or high damage character, but they don't have the damage. Sarge's basic hits hard so he's close at least but he'll never see anything over 15K. I think the best I've seen from Rex's Subdue is about 12k (total). It stands to reason that because of their actual roles in the squad, they need more HP; assuming their HP doesn't change at all. I do think the damage penalty on Cody's 212th and Echo's assist is a bit too high for them, but aside from that; if the focus on the Clones is TM then their damage is fine assuming that their survivability improves.
Today is Saturday and I've tested about all I can with Cody and the Clones and I'm ready to start putting together a summary of our thoughts regarding Cody AND the Clones as a whole. Based on what I've read from other's and my own experience here's what I think.
Cody
1. 212th Attack penalty reduction
2. AT-TE Cannon remove the stun and either add the ability to inflict offense down or TM gain for the Clones.
3. Leader ability: Make the defense gain from Clones a passive ability, perhaps replace it with something to increase TM
Rex
1. AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
2. AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
3. See bullets 1 and 2
Echo
1. Reduce damage penalty on assist
2. Improve AI's use of Emp
Clones Overall
1. Increase total HP (health & protection) for Cody, Rex, Clone Sargent, and Echo; increase to about 30K - 32K
Cody Leader
((All clones gain 25% crit chance and reduce enemy turn meter by 15% on critical hit.)
And set his defense perk to a passive that might effect more than just himself to a lesser degree
Cody gains 50% defense per living clone ally and other allies gain half this amount
Oh and Rex should prioritize squad discipline
Thank you to anyone reading from CG
@CG_Kozispoon @CG_Conduit23
Yeah, if they can't increase the HP on the Clones then extending Cody's +defense buff to all Clones would actually be a pretty nice survivability buff.
A) the clone team needs more health/protection. Even the post here about cody being somewhat more durable now as leader, the matter is that he is only so as leader AND while the rest of the team is other 4 clones AND they are all alive, problem being that Cody's leadership isn't all that good. With the exception of Fives this all team needs a buff of health/protection.
C) Not really competitive damage wise, when compared with the "meta".
Concluding, more health/protection, with fives being the exception; a reliable dispell OR a taunt tank, I would prefer the first, making echo emp grenade a b2 mow dow kinda of attack;improved damage via the assists on one another (a good trademark of the clones, they may individually not be great damage wise but together assisting eachother they would excel) this would also solve any issue of people abusing a buff to a clone by using just one of them.
Its appalling to me that this team, that is clearly intended to be a TEAM, isn't "one of" the meta teams considering 3 out of 5 of the characters are chromium/shipments exclusive and I'm not trying to say they should just own everything because they are pay to play... But if I'm paying (well I did that already) I'd like them to at least be on par with the rest of the meta.. Wedge / droids / palpatine's/ etc. (yes I do know clones wreck droids but their overall performance is better).
My clones currently look like:
rex: gear 11
Effective Health: 35,346
echo: gear 10
Effective Health: 34,199
cody gear 9
Effective Health: 21,716
sarge gear 10
Effective Health: 30,781
fives gear 9
Effective Health: 51436
Common opponents for me look like:
Rey: gear 10
Effective Health: 34,373
Anakin: gear 10
Effective Health: 40,871
QGJ: gear 11
Effective Health: 39,838
IG 86: gear 10
Effective Health: 35,617
IG 88: gear 10
Effective Health: 27,691
GS: gear 10
Effective Health: 36,910
At the end of the day, I've never seen my clones land a blow for more than 8-9k and they tend to have equal to less effective health than characters like:
Rey: has foresight after most blows and hits for 12-30k depending on attack
Anakin: basic hits for 10-12k and applies useful debuffs and I've received AOE crits for 15k per team member
IG88 and 86: basics both hit for 10k + and then there are their specials...
I got distracted this week with the rebel event so Cody should be gear 10 soon however I am not expecting his protection to jump 15k to catch any of the other clones or opponents in terms of effective health - and he definitely doesn't hit as hard as any of the opponents listed above.
I don't mind seeing the difference in leadership between Cody and Rex. It leads to some interesting squad build options when it comes to mods, with Rex being the obvious go to for defense and TM gain, and Cody for damage. However Cody at least needs an HP buff to bring him in line with CSP1 Echo and Rex.
Further, as previously suggested, adding some sort of TM manipulation (either bonusing clones by speed up, or penalizing opponents with speed down) to AT-TE cannon fits thematically with the rest of the squad, and would give clones a unique play style while remaining average in the damage and health departments. The stun potential, as low as it might be would be gravy, not the reason to use the attack. Additionally I think this would improve Echo's By the Book, not in heal strength directly, but by function of getting a potential second basic attack by squad members before opponents go.
Further, a slight reduction to the 212th attack damage penalty seems also in line, especially compared to other assist attacks
Cody is truly only good in a clone heavy squad, and so it should be. Reinforce that strength and don't make him a liability in use in that environment.
I'd rather see a taunt for clones tacked onto Plo, who could probably use some love himself, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a taunting Jedi.
Giving Plo a passive taunt thats restricted to Clones would be interesting. But I think it has to be something passive or its not that useful. His 3rd ability is great for Clones, so it would be cool to see PK become useful.
Like if PKs second ability kept the same damage, became the first priority in the AI script, cool down of three and taunt for two turns.
I say this because PK as a standalone probably needs more love to become useful more than the clones need more things to be useful.
I can see an arguement for both, Im more in favor of it being passive. Whether its 5's or PK I dont care but one of them. The reason for the passive is because with the speed of droid teams, speed Old Ben, and no Palpatine, Rex and the squad can be ability blocked before you can even taunt andn1 to 2 will be dead before you can taunt. The passive is almost a must.
In that, I would say PK. I'd say overall clones are pretty good outside of some further tweaks to Cody as discussed here. Plo could be the light side/Jedi RG as he brings little else to the table.
Just have to be careful with how a passive is managed, we dont need an RG that works with everybody, just limit it to Clones or maybe Jedi too.
Happy Monday! As you can see there's been a lot of testing and discussion going on with the Cody updates and just the Clones in-general. I think we all agree that there are still issues with Cody, that you might be addressing already, and really the Clones as a whole.
Cody
Cody's recent "soft updates" we think were definitely a step in the right direction. Have 212th Attack go first on defense is a big bonus for Cody. The defense bonus buff was definitely positive, more than I thought it would be. Couple points on Cody:
1. His 212th Attack needs a reduction in the damage penalty. When you look at other damage-oriented characters like Rey, IG86, Biggs & Wedge combo, etc, the damage is modestly more than what Cody does and has a shorter cooldown without any Crit requirements
2. AT-TE Cannon: It's a cool ability and the stun is "nice" but kind of pales in-comparison to other characters with a stun. Clones seem to have a TM gain theme and also lack in survivability. Having the AOE ability to help with one of those areas would be more ideal. Either have some kind of squad TM gain on the AOE crit, or inflict offense down to help with survivability perhaps.
3. Leader ability: If other Clone allies could benefit from the defense gain bonus that would really help to improve survivability. Also, by having Cody's only means of survival tagged to a leader bonus, it pigeon-holes the squad into having him at leader. If his leader bonus was more of a passive bonus, it would allow more flexibility in using Cody outside of that role. Lastly, this bonus requires a large Clone squad, perhaps at least 4 Clones to really make this work. Unfortunately, the Clones can't survive as a squad in Arena that well with those numbers and their current survivability level.
4. Health: He cannot be used outside of the leader role. The leader defense gain ability would serve him well as passive if increasing his total health (HP & Prot) would throw him out-of-balance.
Clones Overall
Using Cody with his leader buff kind of forced us to look at the Clones as a whole squad rather than just an individual. Overall what we found is that survivability is very poor.
- Rex: He is so critical to the squad that it's not even funny. His AI needs to prioritize Squad Discipline. Aside from the Tenacity buff it gives them TM to try and setup some tempo for the squad. It would be cool to see his personal Tenacity levels increased about 10% points so he has some chance at resisting a debuff.
- Echo: This is a tough one because it seems like some of the logic for managing his debuff is more complicated than it seems as Ventress and QGJ suffer from the same issue. He needs to hold that EMP Grenade for a Taunt if possible. Secondly, his assist penalty can afford to be reduced; an assist for 1k to 1.5k is not all that great unless maybe the assist gave the Clone he assisted some TM. Lastly, I think many of us feel his heal is not overly relevant when you look at the scope of incoming damage.
- CT-5555: We'd like to see him possibly get involved with some kind of passive taunt that is restricted to Clones or somehow absorb damage from a Clone that is at 50% HP or less. It is so easy to kill off the other Clones before they even move, they need some help here.
- Plo Koon: Somebody brought up Plo Koon's synergy with the Clones and I think it was kind of forgotten. If 5's can't get the passive Taunt, then perhaps Plo Koon could and maybe even have it restricted to Clones and Jedi since the Jedi don't have a taunt and with the recent Palpatine addition the Jedi also need a taunt. It would be fun to get Plo Koon involved like your recent updates with Anakin allowed us to do with Clones.
Sorry that was so long-winded, I tried to summarize the best I could. I know we'd love to hear your feedback on our findings. Can't wait to see how you finish-up Cody's updates!
Fully agree with all stated. With the recent Anakin option for a leader it seems unfair to not be able to include Cody in my squad under Ani lead since Cody can be one shot by Rey turn 1 sometimes even when he is the leader
Hey Kozi, just wanted to follow-up to see if you had a chance to review any of the feedback we compiled. Also, it would be very cool to hear what you and the dev team has to say about Cody and any hints as to what updates are coming would be great too. Also, how do you feel about our suggestions regarding Rex and giving the Clones some kind of passive taunt via 5's or Plo Koon? Best Regards - J
Definitely feedback that's gotten the team talking, as well as agreeing to much of it! While I personally would love to see nothing but focus and efforts on Cody and the clones (all clones all da time!), the time needed to implement and test the changes we'd like to make to clones and do it right has grown in scope to the point that it may be a while before the team can address them. Still, we appreciate your patience as well as your passion to this character.
Hey @CG_Kozispoon thanks for taking the time to reply. I think we all recognize that you're very busy with new content and new characters too; we're excited for whatever can be done. You mentioned before that the last update was a "soft" update. Is there another piece of that update coming still or is that the additional work you mentioned above? Also, what about the change to Rex's AI. Thoughts and feasibility? Thanks again! - J
My dream would be to see this arena ranking
The Clones are right on the edge of being competitive. The biggest problem is really Rex's AI and their overall survivability. I was testing something today and my Echo with 39K modded total health, got 1-shotted from 100% protection by a Rey's FOB with offense up. I also watched a Biggs + Wedge + EP assist attack drop Rex from 100% as well. The have no means of damage mitigation at all. Rex's AI change helps you to not drop from top 5 to top 30 overnight. The survivability would make the Clones a more impactful team overall.
Hey @CG_Kozispoon So glad that you are watching and listening to this and you are intellectually... spritiually ...emotionally in the same space about clones - Clones 4 life!! It makes me feel really engaged in the game... But I think i have a lot more passion than patience (but can still be patient)
Cheers
The last Cody update was a "soft update" so maybe there's a 2nd part to that coming soon, maybe not too long. Trying to stay positive.
Yeah, Yoda would be good too.
I play a Rex on my arena shard and he always opens with Squad Discipline as of the last two weeks, anyone else?