How in the world do u get by the constant taunts of GK and Baze to kill Rex first?
DT aoe dispel + dn dispel and use gk's assist call on Rex boom DT instakill ready
Except if DT or DN's special crits GK will taunt, protecting rex.
I've seen videos of OP's setup and it may work well on offense, as do many other teams, but I can't imagine the AI playing it well enough to hold on defense.
What people over look is the "can't be resisted by rebels" clause. So even if Rex or chirriut apply tenacity up, tarkin will still hit chaze/wiggs/r2 with O down and crit down. This is pretty good. This will get even better as new rebels are introduced.
Lol I'm pretty sure I've been overlooking this in gameplay. It's hard to remember always.
Krennic will apply ability block through tenacity up in rebels too. Krennic lead teams with tarkin can pretty much auto wedge, chaze, r2 and gk teams. It's pretty nice and with ahsoka coming into the fold, we may see more reason to use tarkin. Here's to hoping anyway
I'm not seeing how Ahsoka will be killable in the Gk / Chaze /R2 cone of safety. Every turn she dispels debuffs and gains 5% health from debuffs and she will get 4% from Chirrut just from being alive and having a HoT on her. If you yank her CD she will just use basic and get prot up. I think she's going to finally shut the door on using pure DS teams and having a decent win rate. She may even shut out the GK + DS versions. She has potential to break the game and form a fab 5: Chaze / GK / R2 / Ahsoka. If she had a great leader to stick on the team for LS / rebels it would be a lock - as is that team doesn't have a great leader - but R2's unique zetas essentially functions as a leader so it's not that big of a deal.
I can't believe something like her is being released in to the game given the condition of arena right now - unless something in June is coming to be a super hard counter to the existing teams.
Her ability to cleanse on all turns (this is just silly) is brutal for us ds fans that is for sure. What may happen is, ds teams could begin to use baze as a tank. If teams try to fill her with buffs, his passive tm gain should allow us to clean her before her ohko. But I don't feel baze is very great without his blind compatriot. So this is not certain.
That being said, I look forward to the challenge. I've resisted rolling over and joining the light side. I'm just not sure we have a great leader right now and I know for sure we have garbage uniques.
Tarkin lead DT Krennic DN and GK really beat up triple cleanse teams.
Triple cleanse teams are slow so by the time they get their cooldowns back Rex is dead and DN is ready to go. I imagine faster teams, like zaul or R-2 could really cause problems though.
Tarkin lead DT Krennic DN and GK really beat up triple cleanse teams.
Triple cleanse teams are slow so by the time they get their cooldowns back Rex is dead and DN is ready to go. I imagine faster teams, like zaul or R-2 could really cause problems though.
DN already destroys Rex, easily. No Crits, no TM.
Not the better Rex / cleanse teams with R2 in it - R2's burn and stun greatly reduce the effectiveness of the DN lead on Sith.
Also...stayed at 12 overnight with the Tarkin team in D - so that's 12 and 18. Maybe no better / worse than any other D slot I can put out, not sure yet. Without running any of GK / Rex / Chaze in the D slot that's about what I've been doing generally even with a tank in there - either SiT or Shore.
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
Tarkin lead DT Krennic DN and GK really beat up triple cleanse teams.
Triple cleanse teams are slow so by the time they get their cooldowns back Rex is dead and DN is ready to go. I imagine faster teams, like zaul or R-2 could really cause problems though.
DN already destroys Rex, easily. No Crits, no TM.
Not the better Rex / cleanse teams with R2 in it - R2's burn and stun greatly reduce the effectiveness of the DN lead on Sith.
DN, SiT, Dooku, zSavage, zSid. Savage cleanses Dooku riposts like its going out of style. I run Rex lead and when I go against a DN, not even zeta'd he crushes Rex, GK doesnt taunt or put up crit immunity (not that it would matter; nor do I have him yet, just sayen), Savage cleanses and gets rid of debuffs, and Dooku is just going nuts. Whenever I go up against a good DN team, I just bring vader which crushes DN; but thats sort of the point, Rock, Paper, Scissors).
Tarkin lead DT Krennic DN and GK really beat up triple cleanse teams.
Triple cleanse teams are slow so by the time they get their cooldowns back Rex is dead and DN is ready to go. I imagine faster teams, like zaul or R-2 could really cause problems though.
DN already destroys Rex, easily. No Crits, no TM.
Not the better Rex / cleanse teams with R2 in it - R2's burn and stun greatly reduce the effectiveness of the DN lead on Sith.
DN, SiT, Dooku, zSavage, zSid. Savage cleanses Dooku riposts like its going out of style. I run Rex lead and when I go against a DN, not even zeta'd he crushes Rex, GK doesnt taunt or put up crit immunity (not that it would matter; nor do I have him yet, just sayen), Savage cleanses and gets rid of debuffs, and Dooku is just going nuts. Whenever I go up against a good DN team, I just bring vader which crushes DN; but thats sort of the point, Rock, Paper, Scissors).
My Savage gets roasted like crazy with all the burn on him dispelling others - under DN he doesn't heal from the HoTs. I crushed classic cleanse without R2 using that squad but SA instead of zSid. I can still win vs. it with that team, but instead of 90%+ it's much less reliable. My dooku is 7* max gear with good offense mods on him - but when R2 stuns him and he's got burn on him as well even he gets roasted.
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
You mean as a leader? With what I've seen and the videos @ImYourHuckleberry posted above, I think he's a better non-Rex Chaze killer than vs. a Rex lead. He's greatly improved my team's ability to handle the Chaze / GK / R2 comps.
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
You mean as a leader? With what I've seen and the videos @ImYourHuckleberry posted above, I think he's a better non-Rex Chaze killer than vs. a Rex lead. He's greatly improved my team's ability to handle the Chaze / GK / R2 comps.
It might just be that the r-2 squad I face is bonkers. 281 speed r-2 all whale mods everything. It's wedge lead. Tarkin lead can help gaurentee a 2 turn cooldown on all of the cleansers which just makes Rex squads sitting ducks. My biggest problem is wedge and Chirrut are 1 shot machines.
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
You mean as a leader? With what I've seen and the videos @ImYourHuckleberry posted above, I think he's a better non-Rex Chaze killer than vs. a Rex lead. He's greatly improved my team's ability to handle the Chaze / GK / R2 comps.
It might just be that the r-2 squad I face is bonkers. 281 speed r-2 all whale mods everything. It's wedge lead. Tarkin lead can help gaurentee a 2 turn cooldown on all of the cleansers which just makes Rex squads sitting ducks. My biggest problem is wedge and Chirrut are 1 shot machines.
There are R2's faster than my SA on my shard - Vader should still work there if Vader goes first. He will clear Baze's foresight and when your DN comes up he will put a DoT on Baze and be able to yank all 5 CDs. Then EP can pull more TM with Hate flow - that should put Tarkin up to bat with O / Crit down on them and reduce the damage you take for as long as you can keep.
While I was typing this just faced a Wedge / Chaze / GK / R2 team (this R2 isn't faster than my SA, but just an example) - unfortunately will have to trust me on the team comp, I didn't expect to have a historically awesome beatdown...but almost had a perfect game...only EP got hit at all in this match. This is an outlier for sure, but worth sharing. Tarkin was a big part of this because he kept the enemy pinned as DV had them slowed and EP stunned all 5 (that's what really allowed this).
Not sure what your point is here? Rex lead teams are already easily beatable. Personally I always beat him with a fast Zaul team and when ive tried with Zader hes usually dead before he can cleanse.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
You mean as a leader? With what I've seen and the videos @ImYourHuckleberry posted above, I think he's a better non-Rex Chaze killer than vs. a Rex lead. He's greatly improved my team's ability to handle the Chaze / GK / R2 comps.
It might just be that the r-2 squad I face is bonkers. 281 speed r-2 all whale mods everything. It's wedge lead. Tarkin lead can help gaurentee a 2 turn cooldown on all of the cleansers which just makes Rex squads sitting ducks. My biggest problem is wedge and Chirrut are 1 shot machines.
Yeah if you're getting out-modded even a bit in the matchup it's hard to tell. Mods really muddy things up, you have to hope to be fighting on relatively even mod basis to get a good read of what impact the characters are actually having vs. the mods and speed / damage especially.
@JohnnySteelAlpha do you have many wedge lead with r2 and baze? I am surprised that wedge and baze don't ko him with their aoes. May I have your swogh.gg please?
@JohnnySteelAlpha do you have many wedge lead with r2 and baze? I am surprised that wedge and baze don't ko him with their aoes. May I have your swogh.gg please?
Don't have a GG - but yes 2 or 3 guys have Wedge / Chaze / R2 / GK teams - they are the tougher of the versions, but still beat them at a good rate. That pic immediately above with just R2 standing there was a Wedge led team just like that. My EP I have modded for protection and he's a tad over 42k total prot / health. Tarkin goes right at 40k total...
But quite often Wedge and Baze either don't get off their AOEs or they are O / crit chance down. You shouldn't be eating their AOEs in round 1 when DN pulls their CDs. Sometimes I'll save IT on Tarkin until round 2 after Chirrut has cleansed in round 2, depending on Chirrut's TM condition. I use EP's aoe stun in round 2 - if that stuns chirrut you're golden cause you can then almost have DN's TM yank up again and also Tarkin's skills back up along with SA Cloak. GK is actually very easy to keep pinned down and not using his cleanse with this squad due to Vader's basic, SA's stun, EP's shock yanking TM, and of course Tarkin removing TM along with all hits taking TM with Vader. The 2 tanks often die first. The AOEs aren't my problem - it's more Chirrut once in a while will slip through with a 50k crit bomb and OHKO EP.
Do you have your speed tuned for "perfect" turn order? That's what I wanted to look up. I run a very near identical team: Vader, sass, dn, tark and gk. I have order for sass into Vader into dn. Just curious how you handle the tm gains.
Do you have your speed tuned for "perfect" turn order? That's what I wanted to look up. I run a very near identical team: Vader, sass, dn, tark and gk. I have order for sass into Vader into dn. Just curious how you handle the tm gains.
I don't no because I use them in other areas of the game and try to have them all with better speed rather than stagger their speed. My win rate in arena with them so far is good enough I haven't had to take that step. Definitely is safer though if DV goes first so DN can yank the CDs and save EP's stun for round 2.
You can boil it down really to how the effects hit Chirrut. Long as DN yanks Chirruts CD in round 1 or EP stuns him, you should be in good shape. Tarkin is always last to move for you, so you can decide whether to save the IT for later or not. If you really have them pinned with slow and TM removal / stun etc, do the IT and then yank more TM and keep the gas down. If Chirrut is pressing and about to cleanse, use FU to try to really yank TM, but save the IT so you can come back around next Tarkin turn and stick IT on them if Chirrut is still charging forward. The only other toon I pay attention to is GK - but he's much easier to keep pinned cause of his lack of speed generally and inability to gain TM like Chirrut.
Do you have your speed tuned for "perfect" turn order? That's what I wanted to look up. I run a very near identical team: Vader, sass, dn, tark and gk. I have order for sass into Vader into dn. Just curious how you handle the tm gains.
I don't no because I use them in other areas of the game and try to have them all with better speed rather than stagger their speed. My win rate in arena with them so far is good enough I haven't had to take that step. Definitely is safer though if DV goes first so DN can yank the CDs and save EP's stun for round 2.
You can boil it down really to how the effects hit Chirrut. Long as DN yanks Chirruts CD in round 1 or EP stuns him, you should be in good shape. Tarkin is always last to move for you, so you can decide whether to save the IT for later or not. If you really have them pinned with slow and TM removal / stun etc, do the IT and then yank more TM and keep the gas down. If Chirrut is pressing and about to cleanse, use FU to try to really yank TM, but save the IT so you can come back around next Tarkin turn and stick IT on them if Chirrut is still charging forward. The only other toon I pay attention to is GK - but he's much easier to keep pinned cause of his lack of speed generally and inability to gain TM like Chirrut.
This makes sense. For me, I'd think dv into dn into ep would be the perfect opening. The perfect opening is only really useful for defending so you can sort of have a feel for how your squad will behave. I don't use dn in raids so his speed isn't a real issue. I do use ep in raids, but slowing him a bit to add in HP/prot or cc/cd will still work well in p3 and rancor.
I take out the gk and play around with ep instead. I try "perfect" turn order and I'll try tm rng. See which plays out better.
Do you have your speed tuned for "perfect" turn order? That's what I wanted to look up. I run a very near identical team: Vader, sass, dn, tark and gk. I have order for sass into Vader into dn. Just curious how you handle the tm gains.
I don't no because I use them in other areas of the game and try to have them all with better speed rather than stagger their speed. My win rate in arena with them so far is good enough I haven't had to take that step. Definitely is safer though if DV goes first so DN can yank the CDs and save EP's stun for round 2.
You can boil it down really to how the effects hit Chirrut. Long as DN yanks Chirruts CD in round 1 or EP stuns him, you should be in good shape. Tarkin is always last to move for you, so you can decide whether to save the IT for later or not. If you really have them pinned with slow and TM removal / stun etc, do the IT and then yank more TM and keep the gas down. If Chirrut is pressing and about to cleanse, use FU to try to really yank TM, but save the IT so you can come back around next Tarkin turn and stick IT on them if Chirrut is still charging forward. The only other toon I pay attention to is GK - but he's much easier to keep pinned cause of his lack of speed generally and inability to gain TM like Chirrut.
This makes sense. For me, I'd think dv into dn into ep would be the perfect opening. The perfect opening is only really useful for defending so you can sort of have a feel for how your squad will behave. I don't use dn in raids so his speed isn't a real issue. I do use ep in raids, but slowing him a bit to add in HP/prot or cc/cd will still work well in p3 and rancor.
I take out the gk and play around with ep instead. I try "perfect" turn order and I'll try tm rng. See which plays out better.
yeah I use DN a lot in raids - he was on my PIT solo team 2 days ago with Tarkin under zDV...he ends up my highest damage toon, like 3.5+ million damage there.
Let me know how it goes for you. There's a modest learning curve here with who to hit and when to use certain specials. As noted before, Chirrut's TM, CD status, etc are the main key to read. EP's hate flow also seems to (this probably isn't true) yank more TM and more often when it's used as the opening move. Ideal flow to me there is DV leads off, DN yanks CDs, EP use hate flow OR shock on Baze - I'd recommend hate flow for O up ... then Tarkin is where you read what's going on whether to use IT in round 1 or not. If Chirrut is pinned so you can use IT and then have Tarkin move again - that's ideal because Chirrut will likely be close to full TM and a 70% TM removal chance there is huge. If you get that nailed - or even just the 50% - now your team is rolling with EP's aoe stun still coming up for another chance to pin further - you can actually hold EP's stun to rd 3 in that cause cause Chirrut would still be stuck in round 1 and on CD - so you can just shock with EP to get his TM going and also it can yank TM from the rebel bonus damage anyway - for this opponent his basic is really an AOE for damage and also for TM removal under zDV.
For me, beating these teams isn't a big deal
with my current setup. So offense isn't a struggle at all. When I play, I like to play it the same as ai would on defense so I can see what mistakes are made (this includes Vader aoe into full squad ten up) so I can try my best to mitigate it. Defense will never use Hate just for fun. I'd want to know how my team will behave as ai.
While I'll agree that defense is not super great in this game, it's all I have to work for when talking about tip top arena. Currently I go to bed at 1 and wake up around 7-11. I'd like to remain top 5 if at all possible. This means stun and +1 do not work well together since they drop the same time.
For me, beating these teams isn't a big deal
with my current setup. So offense isn't a struggle at all. When I play, I like to play it the same as ai would on defense so I can see what mistakes are made (this includes Vader aoe into full squad ten up) so I can try my best to mitigate it. Defense will never use Hate just for fun. I'd want to know how my team will behave as ai.
While I'll agree that defense is not super great in this game, it's all I have to work for when talking about tip top arena. Currently I go to bed at 1 and wake up around 7-11. I'd like to remain top 5 if at all possible. This means stun and +1 do not work well together since they drop the same time.
I have too many Chaze / R2 / GK / Rex guys to consistently stay in the top 7 - no one on the shard can do that as it's pretty deep. You're very lucky to stay in the top 10. One of the better GK / Chaze / R2 teams on the board had payout just 4 hours ago and is already at rank 15. A well built Wedge / R2 / GK / Chaze g11 squad is sitting at 21 and another at 15. 19 rank is a DN lead with GK / Chaze / R2 - all 7* G11 and well modded. It's Chaze all up and down the top 20 and on offense Chaze is full OP mode so defend rates are not going to be great - they all have GK as well at their disposal and Rex too.
Since R2 hit my average overnight rank with a full-DS zDV-led squad is around 15 I'd say. Tarkin team last night held at 12. Not bad.
To me the real challenge in arena now is can you win with a full DS team? So not the Empire / Sith + GK versions...but legit full DS. I'm trying to maintain using a DS only team, but Ahsoka will probably put it to an end.
@Nebulous I think that's the main issue, u can win some on offense, but on defense u fall like a rock. People on my shard say against my team they trigger Rex tenacity up and then run full auto, it's an easy win. And some of them don't even have chaze!
With a hard effort and a 50 refresh crystals I go to sleep at #1 and wake up around #15/20 everybody target me
Farmed like crazy some speed mods at double drops (didn't got much luck) trying to make a bit better squad. I run Vader lead 214 speed, DT 232, Tarkin 229, Nihilus 218, Kenobi 199 (I use a crit avoid mod at arrow, found it much more useful).
@JohnnySteelAlpha here is my first attempt vs the shards best: wedge, chaze, r2 and gk. My toons are set for perfect turn order: sass (276 speed) into Vader, into dn, into ep into tarkin.
@Nebulous I think that's the main issue, u can win some on offense, but on defense u fall like a rock. People on my shard say against my team they trigger Rex tenacity up and then run full auto, it's an easy win. And some of them don't even have chaze!
With a hard effort and a 50 refresh crystals I go to sleep at #1 and wake up around #15/20 everybody target me
Farmed like crazy some speed mods at double drops (didn't got much luck) trying to make a bit better squad. I run Vader lead 214 speed, DT 232, Tarkin 229, Nihilus 218, Kenobi 199 (I use a crit avoid mod at arrow, found it much more useful).
I don't really far too fast. I have my Vader with 33ish crit so he won't push Rex Leads. Then dn comes in and +1. I set turn order to be perfect. So as long as I don't crit 2 times vs Rex (depends on how fast sass is compared to fastest Rex or 3 if I reduce tm on rex),Tarkin will come in and essentially start my team all over again.
@JohnnySteelAlpha here is my first attempt vs the shards best: wedge, chaze, r2 and gk. My toons are set for perfect turn order: sass (276 speed) into Vader, into dn, into ep into tarkin.
Dang - that's a beat down - looks like you have a well modded and built team! Nice. How'd you think Tarkin did? Strong in this matchup right?
@JohnnySteelAlpha here is my first attempt vs the shards best: wedge, chaze, r2 and gk. My toons are set for perfect turn order: sass (276 speed) into Vader, into dn, into ep into tarkin.
Dang - that's a beat down - looks like you have a well modded and built team! Nice. How'd you think Tarkin did? Strong in this matchup right?
I don't think Wedge ever moved. Neither did baze nor gk. Most damage was from counter attacks. Takin was pro. He allows me to rest my opponent. I remember thinking, huh, my dn gets to already +1 these guys a second time?!? This isn't fair at all.
@JohnnySteelAlpha here is my first attempt vs the shards best: wedge, chaze, r2 and gk. My toons are set for perfect turn order: sass (276 speed) into Vader, into dn, into ep into tarkin.
Dang - that's a beat down - looks like you have a well modded and built team! Nice. How'd you think Tarkin did? Strong in this matchup right?
I don't think Wedge ever moved. Neither did baze nor gk. Most damage was from counter attacks. Takin was pro. He allows me to rest my opponent. I remember thinking, huh, my dn gets to already +1 these guys a second time?!? This isn't fair at all.
lol. Told you. Now think how strong that means it is since you just did that without a taunt, without an enemy aoe buff remover, and without a self-cleanse...and totally dismantled an incredibly scary build. It may not go that smooth all the time, but you can have matches where it's like this and a total route.
That's why when people say this won't hold on D or say it's a bad build...my counter is, maybe more than any other build I've run - in this matchup if it was live player v. live player the Tarkin team would win a lot anyway because the opponent just can't really do anything. If we had live pvp you'd be getting some rage posts vs. this Tarkin build to people crying they couldn't ever take a move or use their specials.
@JohnnySteelAlpha here is my first attempt vs the shards best: wedge, chaze, r2 and gk. My toons are set for perfect turn order: sass (276 speed) into Vader, into dn, into ep into tarkin.
Dang - that's a beat down - looks like you have a well modded and built team! Nice. How'd you think Tarkin did? Strong in this matchup right?
I don't think Wedge ever moved. Neither did baze nor gk. Most damage was from counter attacks. Takin was pro. He allows me to rest my opponent. I remember thinking, huh, my dn gets to already +1 these guys a second time?!? This isn't fair at all.
lol. Told you. Now think how strong that means it is since you just did that without a taunt, without an enemy aoe buff remover, and without a self-cleanse...and totally dismantled an incredibly scary build. It may not go that smooth all the time, but you can have matches where it's like this and a total route.
That's why when people say this won't hold on D or say it's a bad build...my counter is, maybe more than any other build I've run - in this matchup if it was live player v. live player the Tarkin team would win a lot anyway because the opponent just can't really do anything. If we had live pvp you'd be getting some rage posts vs. this Tarkin build to people crying they couldn't ever take a move or use their specials.
We'd just see Biggs emerge. As soon as Vader aoe, Biggs will roflstomp ep. My concern is Rex teams though. Too much tm gain before dn +1 is a big deal. So, Biggs and Rex are two main significant threats.
I was 7 all day and then moved to 3rd with that battle and I'm now already 10th. Defense isn't for this team. But it's just been 25 mins. I'll keep on chugging.
Replies
Except if DT or DN's special crits GK will taunt, protecting rex.
I've seen videos of OP's setup and it may work well on offense, as do many other teams, but I can't imagine the AI playing it well enough to hold on defense.
Her ability to cleanse on all turns (this is just silly) is brutal for us ds fans that is for sure. What may happen is, ds teams could begin to use baze as a tank. If teams try to fill her with buffs, his passive tm gain should allow us to clean her before her ohko. But I don't feel baze is very great without his blind compatriot. So this is not certain.
That being said, I look forward to the challenge. I've resisted rolling over and joining the light side. I'm just not sure we have a great leader right now and I know for sure we have garbage uniques.
DN already destroys Rex, easily. No Crits, no TM.
Not the better Rex / cleanse teams with R2 in it - R2's burn and stun greatly reduce the effectiveness of the DN lead on Sith.
The potency stacking is not a buff, and therefore cannot be dispelled.
I image there are other ways to beat him to.
I was hoping Zeta Tarkin would some how be a counter against Chaze even if though it seems unlikely.
Yeah it seems Tarkin is mostly a counter to Rex and not so much Chaze. Chaze has found a new home in wedge r-2 squads. Per the typical Chaze faction. I can still beat the Chaze r-2 squads with my Tarkin lead but only when my DT is faster than R-2.
DN, SiT, Dooku, zSavage, zSid. Savage cleanses Dooku riposts like its going out of style. I run Rex lead and when I go against a DN, not even zeta'd he crushes Rex, GK doesnt taunt or put up crit immunity (not that it would matter; nor do I have him yet, just sayen), Savage cleanses and gets rid of debuffs, and Dooku is just going nuts. Whenever I go up against a good DN team, I just bring vader which crushes DN; but thats sort of the point, Rock, Paper, Scissors).
My Savage gets roasted like crazy with all the burn on him dispelling others - under DN he doesn't heal from the HoTs. I crushed classic cleanse without R2 using that squad but SA instead of zSid. I can still win vs. it with that team, but instead of 90%+ it's much less reliable. My dooku is 7* max gear with good offense mods on him - but when R2 stuns him and he's got burn on him as well even he gets roasted.
You mean as a leader? With what I've seen and the videos @ImYourHuckleberry posted above, I think he's a better non-Rex Chaze killer than vs. a Rex lead. He's greatly improved my team's ability to handle the Chaze / GK / R2 comps.
It might just be that the r-2 squad I face is bonkers. 281 speed r-2 all whale mods everything. It's wedge lead. Tarkin lead can help gaurentee a 2 turn cooldown on all of the cleansers which just makes Rex squads sitting ducks. My biggest problem is wedge and Chirrut are 1 shot machines.
There are R2's faster than my SA on my shard - Vader should still work there if Vader goes first. He will clear Baze's foresight and when your DN comes up he will put a DoT on Baze and be able to yank all 5 CDs. Then EP can pull more TM with Hate flow - that should put Tarkin up to bat with O / Crit down on them and reduce the damage you take for as long as you can keep.
While I was typing this just faced a Wedge / Chaze / GK / R2 team (this R2 isn't faster than my SA, but just an example) - unfortunately will have to trust me on the team comp, I didn't expect to have a historically awesome beatdown...but almost had a perfect game...only EP got hit at all in this match. This is an outlier for sure, but worth sharing. Tarkin was a big part of this because he kept the enemy pinned as DV had them slowed and EP stunned all 5 (that's what really allowed this).
Yeah if you're getting out-modded even a bit in the matchup it's hard to tell. Mods really muddy things up, you have to hope to be fighting on relatively even mod basis to get a good read of what impact the characters are actually having vs. the mods and speed / damage especially.
Don't have a GG - but yes 2 or 3 guys have Wedge / Chaze / R2 / GK teams - they are the tougher of the versions, but still beat them at a good rate. That pic immediately above with just R2 standing there was a Wedge led team just like that. My EP I have modded for protection and he's a tad over 42k total prot / health. Tarkin goes right at 40k total...
But quite often Wedge and Baze either don't get off their AOEs or they are O / crit chance down. You shouldn't be eating their AOEs in round 1 when DN pulls their CDs. Sometimes I'll save IT on Tarkin until round 2 after Chirrut has cleansed in round 2, depending on Chirrut's TM condition. I use EP's aoe stun in round 2 - if that stuns chirrut you're golden cause you can then almost have DN's TM yank up again and also Tarkin's skills back up along with SA Cloak. GK is actually very easy to keep pinned down and not using his cleanse with this squad due to Vader's basic, SA's stun, EP's shock yanking TM, and of course Tarkin removing TM along with all hits taking TM with Vader. The 2 tanks often die first. The AOEs aren't my problem - it's more Chirrut once in a while will slip through with a 50k crit bomb and OHKO EP.
I don't no because I use them in other areas of the game and try to have them all with better speed rather than stagger their speed. My win rate in arena with them so far is good enough I haven't had to take that step. Definitely is safer though if DV goes first so DN can yank the CDs and save EP's stun for round 2.
You can boil it down really to how the effects hit Chirrut. Long as DN yanks Chirruts CD in round 1 or EP stuns him, you should be in good shape. Tarkin is always last to move for you, so you can decide whether to save the IT for later or not. If you really have them pinned with slow and TM removal / stun etc, do the IT and then yank more TM and keep the gas down. If Chirrut is pressing and about to cleanse, use FU to try to really yank TM, but save the IT so you can come back around next Tarkin turn and stick IT on them if Chirrut is still charging forward. The only other toon I pay attention to is GK - but he's much easier to keep pinned cause of his lack of speed generally and inability to gain TM like Chirrut.
This makes sense. For me, I'd think dv into dn into ep would be the perfect opening. The perfect opening is only really useful for defending so you can sort of have a feel for how your squad will behave. I don't use dn in raids so his speed isn't a real issue. I do use ep in raids, but slowing him a bit to add in HP/prot or cc/cd will still work well in p3 and rancor.
I take out the gk and play around with ep instead. I try "perfect" turn order and I'll try tm rng. See which plays out better.
yeah I use DN a lot in raids - he was on my PIT solo team 2 days ago with Tarkin under zDV...he ends up my highest damage toon, like 3.5+ million damage there.
Let me know how it goes for you. There's a modest learning curve here with who to hit and when to use certain specials. As noted before, Chirrut's TM, CD status, etc are the main key to read. EP's hate flow also seems to (this probably isn't true) yank more TM and more often when it's used as the opening move. Ideal flow to me there is DV leads off, DN yanks CDs, EP use hate flow OR shock on Baze - I'd recommend hate flow for O up ... then Tarkin is where you read what's going on whether to use IT in round 1 or not. If Chirrut is pinned so you can use IT and then have Tarkin move again - that's ideal because Chirrut will likely be close to full TM and a 70% TM removal chance there is huge. If you get that nailed - or even just the 50% - now your team is rolling with EP's aoe stun still coming up for another chance to pin further - you can actually hold EP's stun to rd 3 in that cause cause Chirrut would still be stuck in round 1 and on CD - so you can just shock with EP to get his TM going and also it can yank TM from the rebel bonus damage anyway - for this opponent his basic is really an AOE for damage and also for TM removal under zDV.
with my current setup. So offense isn't a struggle at all. When I play, I like to play it the same as ai would on defense so I can see what mistakes are made (this includes Vader aoe into full squad ten up) so I can try my best to mitigate it. Defense will never use Hate just for fun. I'd want to know how my team will behave as ai.
While I'll agree that defense is not super great in this game, it's all I have to work for when talking about tip top arena. Currently I go to bed at 1 and wake up around 7-11. I'd like to remain top 5 if at all possible. This means stun and +1 do not work well together since they drop the same time.
I have too many Chaze / R2 / GK / Rex guys to consistently stay in the top 7 - no one on the shard can do that as it's pretty deep. You're very lucky to stay in the top 10. One of the better GK / Chaze / R2 teams on the board had payout just 4 hours ago and is already at rank 15. A well built Wedge / R2 / GK / Chaze g11 squad is sitting at 21 and another at 15. 19 rank is a DN lead with GK / Chaze / R2 - all 7* G11 and well modded. It's Chaze all up and down the top 20 and on offense Chaze is full OP mode so defend rates are not going to be great - they all have GK as well at their disposal and Rex too.
Since R2 hit my average overnight rank with a full-DS zDV-led squad is around 15 I'd say. Tarkin team last night held at 12. Not bad.
To me the real challenge in arena now is can you win with a full DS team? So not the Empire / Sith + GK versions...but legit full DS. I'm trying to maintain using a DS only team, but Ahsoka will probably put it to an end.
With a hard effort and a 50 refresh crystals I go to sleep at #1 and wake up around #15/20 everybody target me
Farmed like crazy some speed mods at double drops (didn't got much luck) trying to make a bit better squad. I run Vader lead 214 speed, DT 232, Tarkin 229, Nihilus 218, Kenobi 199 (I use a crit avoid mod at arrow, found it much more useful).
I don't really far too fast. I have my Vader with 33ish crit so he won't push Rex Leads. Then dn comes in and +1. I set turn order to be perfect. So as long as I don't crit 2 times vs Rex (depends on how fast sass is compared to fastest Rex or 3 if I reduce tm on rex),Tarkin will come in and essentially start my team all over again.
Dang - that's a beat down - looks like you have a well modded and built team! Nice. How'd you think Tarkin did? Strong in this matchup right?
I don't think Wedge ever moved. Neither did baze nor gk. Most damage was from counter attacks. Takin was pro. He allows me to rest my opponent. I remember thinking, huh, my dn gets to already +1 these guys a second time?!? This isn't fair at all.
lol. Told you. Now think how strong that means it is since you just did that without a taunt, without an enemy aoe buff remover, and without a self-cleanse...and totally dismantled an incredibly scary build. It may not go that smooth all the time, but you can have matches where it's like this and a total route.
That's why when people say this won't hold on D or say it's a bad build...my counter is, maybe more than any other build I've run - in this matchup if it was live player v. live player the Tarkin team would win a lot anyway because the opponent just can't really do anything. If we had live pvp you'd be getting some rage posts vs. this Tarkin build to people crying they couldn't ever take a move or use their specials.
We'd just see Biggs emerge. As soon as Vader aoe, Biggs will roflstomp ep. My concern is Rex teams though. Too much tm gain before dn +1 is a big deal. So, Biggs and Rex are two main significant threats.
I was 7 all day and then moved to 3rd with that battle and I'm now already 10th. Defense isn't for this team. But it's just been 25 mins. I'll keep on chugging.
Does the fastest sith move first?