@CG_RyDiggs so I have to ask you, since you're theperaon that runs the beta program, were none of the issues set forth in this list found during beta testing of the raid? I don't understand how a thoroughly tested mode can have something as simple as "too much damage from health effects" upon release.
Also, I find it rather irksome that when the only way to acquire NS Zombie was through money, that her mechanic was "fun and engaging", but now that she can be farmed (said loosely since she is only in shipments), that her mechanic breaks a raid, it must be worked around. I also, again, find it curious that in a tested game mode, how this mechanic could've been overseen.
Finally, I can understand how sth was overlooked in testing. But since this team was discovered in the second round of the raid being live, I guess I again have to question how much of this was tested.
@CG_TopHat thank you for the list being detailed. Is there a similar list of known bugs that negatively affect players being worked on as well? One example would be Sion removing more TM than he should per the description of raid mechanics in game.
Thank you both for your time in reading this post. I look forward to your answers.
Stopping an infinite loop? Fine. It's irritating that the STH thing was treated like an exploit when it felt like it was working exactly as his kit intended. And... it was hilarious to nerf it when he was the monthly login toon! What ridiculous irony?!
But... the expose thing really burns my bacon. Expose has been the biggest force in raids since people started rocking Resistance in the Tank after expose was reworked. It probably pushed more guilds past the Tank than any development in the game (and it did it with a team that was completely FTP!).
So now... CG is surprised by the use of expose in the new raid?! No one tested Rey teams out before release? Please... it's a joke. Rey teams don't prevent other teams from working... they just provide dependable damage. Nerfing expose is completely bunk; if that's unintended success, the problem is in the design. (No one should be surprised that expose continues to be a force in the raids)
Although... like nerfing STH the month he's the login toon, nerfing the most recent Hero's Journey toon is pretty funny.
I think you guys may have forgotten one important part in designing a raid with these changes, the fun part. I'm not and I'm sure many others aren't gonna sit for others and throw entire roster at this thing doing less than 1% damage each time. I'm bored just typing that.
It's kind of hard not to feel slighted as a player when an issue like this, which really should have been caught in testing, requires an immediate fix because it is “undermining the design spirit” and is an issue that impacts the player base positively. Yet problems that negatively impact us, from actual game breaking issues like TB freezes to ongoing bugs like the TIE Reaper seem to catch a priority of "whenever".
Ours is a VERY complicated game, and we work very hard to meet your expectations of 100% issue free. We have/do internal and player testing. That said, having a live game with new things coming out, there are bound to be unforeseen issues. Again, we work very hard to build processes and practices to avoid them, but they do happen. For the health of the game overall, we will work to make fixes as soon as realistically possible.
Note, some 'bugs' have to be added to a Version Update (every 3 months or so) and some we can fix in a Hot Fix (next day). It's not easy to lump them together, but we do our very best to meet your expectations.
Thanks for the feedback!
How did you not find this out in testing though? The raid has been out for 1 week and people already found a 'loophole' using theory crafting. Don't nerf the toons outside of this issue; just close the loop hole.
And I quote, "Now, when Darth Traya becomes Enraged she will dispel all positive status effects on her enemies and apply an undispellable, unresistable buff immunity as well". Why does everything have to be undispellable and unrestable these days? You are basically telling everyone that after she enrages the run with that team is over, but we can't have our toons escape like HAAT.
Then it decided that expose is going to be nerf'd when it has nothing to do with this issue. Hell, the Rez/JTR teams aren't even used to solo HAAT. What data are you using to determine that Rez is stifling the use of other teams? Look at the teams on Peterbutler, and the comments that Ahnald101/MobileGamer have made about using other teams that maybe better than JTR. How does fixing expose in this raid affect the other raids; it doesn't. I am assuming, thousands of people have worked towards Rez for expose. And then you are going to lower the boss health in the Sith raid 'slightly', but all of the nerfs are going to make the raid even harder.
My wife has been working towards Finn's zeta for months so she can be competitive in HAAT, but not solo it as I stated. Are you going to offer her zeta mats to account for the fact that she could have used them elsewhere and of the time and resources?
The Sith raid is brand new so it’s understandable that tweaks need to be made. However, the expose change blows me a way. We seem to have contradictory responses. If you want to revisit HAAT, add another difficulty tier. Most of us rely on expose and have spent months developing resistance squads.
i agree, Rez teams are the ones solo'ing HAAT so it makes no sense to mess with it in that raid. Plus, i assume a lot of people have done the same thing working towards expose to have the rug pulled on them. My wife zetas'd Finn last week and now is screwed.
I'm split on this, for a new raid seems stupid for under developed guilds to be able to panic farm a single toon to beat a tier they don't have any business beating but why affect so many other toons! DT is a great example its not like Imps or Empire are destroying the raid with DT on the squad so why even bother touching his abilities. Also horrible user experience as now a ton of gear and zetas are wasted on toons that would never have been done anytime soon otherwise! Love the raid and the challenge but definitely feel slighted by this rushed decision.
i put zeta on last week and they are now nerfing expose across all raids
Finn's zeta is fairly useless in the Sith raid.
Finn's zeta in HAAT is needed to generate the TM effects. Damage from exposes on the boss is minimal IIRC. But I don't use Finn in HAAT so maybe I'm wrong. The dev follow up would seem to confirm though.
Like making us panic farming toons and playing with our feelings even making us spend money to stay on tune
Releasing cheap overpower teams for a couple hundred dollara breaking metas (cof NS cof)
Etc
But you cant change the rules stablished
Why cant you even have noticed for example han response to bonds? Or all of those toons?? Have you guys even tested the raid????
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE SUCH A QUICK FIX IN THIS BUT FOR THE 600 TICKETS YOU TOOK MORE THAN A YEAR?? OR FIX THE CHALLENGE MATERIALS IN RAID REWARDS? ETC
Just unbelievable. Yet another let down. My faith in the people who run this game is diminishing by the day. There is absolutely no reason to nerf JTR teams. In fact your list reads like a who's who of oh sorry we don't want you to use that so why not buy this team instead. What a joke. Raid was way to heavy on boss health. The rewards were shocking and the to top it all of you nerf within a week.
Absolute joke. I can see lots of people moving on after this.
Ps how's about fixing tw. Oh no can't do that but your precious raid we can fix within days.
Visas marr and other soon to be released characters would be my guess
yep, p2p toons if people want them for heroic right a way, which basically screws most of us. Warrior did a video where he counted how many times he had to use the 1,299 crystal package to take Sion to 7*, over $300. That is ridiculous and ends any thoughts of moving him to a higher star level and I am glad that i didnt buy the $9.99 package to take him to 4*.
Funny that when NS were reworked and zombie introduced, the forums were lit by everyone complaining about the infinite loop of zombie and a stealth Acolyte, making them immortal for teams without an AOE dispel or an insane AOE damage... Back then the loop was WAI, but now it got noticed within a week :DDDDDDDDD God i love watching the hypocrisy you guys try to justify As for the sth infinite loop, yeah it needed to be fixed, but a suggestion for future would be to get someone to beta test the thing before you launch it, so as to not look like clowns in front of the community.
i put zeta on last week and they are now nerfing expose across all raids
Finn's zeta is fairly useless in the Sith raid.
Finn's zeta in HAAT is needed to generate the TM effects. Damage from exposes on the boss is minimal IIRC. But I don't use Finn in HAAT so maybe I'm wrong. The dev follow up would seem to confirm though.
I do, and you are partly right, but we'll now be doing less damage, so if a res team that did 50% of P2 now has reduced damage from expose, they may only manage 40% for example. Won't know how much until the nerf update is pushed.
@CG_RyDiggs I left my phone on for 45 mins once during a galact war match because of the acolyte/zombie bug until the rng finally let me beat them. But mess with a raid and you change it in a heart beat. It’s just sad that player feedback isn’t as important as people being able to beat your raids.
I think the best thing you can do/could of done is to communicate figures at the time of announcement of the expose changes. Leaving it vague is going to scare everyone and alienate people perhaps unnecessarily. If we are talking say 20% reduction and a 10% sith raid ho reduction ok that sounds reasonable. If your talking halving it then your gonna have a huge uproar I'd imagine.
The true victims of this are the people who barely can clear HAAT and rely on exposes. I think it's a huge kick in the face to nerf teams in content when they both have been out for over a year. There simply isn't an excuse for that period. And with the sith raid making Finn teams in particular useless it's gonna be hard for people to digest.
Good fix Devs although should have been caught pre-release. We don't need a new raid to be easily completed. Those complaining now would have been complaining in a few months when there isn't new content. #Sithlivesmatter.
after the end of a t6 sith raid i saw the rewards and was shocked. i made rank 2, woke up in the morning 03.30 to use my refreshed heroes. played many hours, tried out different squads.
my guild is 110m gp. no meta-guild, but we have some strong players.
don‘t know if i can make a top 3 rank once more...
and?
it doesn‘t matter!
with these rewards i need 20-30 raids to get only ONE full gear 12 material!!!
for me they can do what they want.
i had zaul in aat, he got an update. i had zader in the pit, he got an update.
now another update. so what? life goes on, because the rules are for us all the same.
only the rewards for this difficult raid are a joke.
why should i farm my characters, if rank 24 gets a full gear material and i only ....
what is the philosophy behind 2 gear12 salavage...
btw. in territory battles we never saw a full gear12 material.
motivation?
it‘s not necessary to invest in raids, if i need a year to put three gear12 materials on a hero...
@CG_RyDiggs, thanks for the update. I am honestly glad that CG wants to ensure that new content remains challenging and does not have easy shortcuts. However... based on purely anecdotal observations, it appears that all other good combinations may do 1.5-2.5 mil. Please share CG’s expectations for this raid because the recommended teams are plainly inaccurate. Do you expect a 100 mil GP guild to be running T4, T5, T6? Should it take them 2 days? A week? Because the rewards aren’t equivalent to the time and effort it takes a guild to run a couple hundred teams that each do 1.5 mil damage. That’s more like the time and effort associated with a TB, and we know what those rewards look like.
I understand and respect that this is challenging and heroic should be end game content. But please inform your player base what you mean by that. Should a guild of 50 all have 60-70 g12 fully zetaed toons to run heroic? Help us manage our expectations, because the in game recommendations utterly fail to do so.
Replies
Also, I find it rather irksome that when the only way to acquire NS Zombie was through money, that her mechanic was "fun and engaging", but now that she can be farmed (said loosely since she is only in shipments), that her mechanic breaks a raid, it must be worked around. I also, again, find it curious that in a tested game mode, how this mechanic could've been overseen.
Finally, I can understand how sth was overlooked in testing. But since this team was discovered in the second round of the raid being live, I guess I again have to question how much of this was tested.
@CG_TopHat thank you for the list being detailed. Is there a similar list of known bugs that negatively affect players being worked on as well? One example would be Sion removing more TM than he should per the description of raid mechanics in game.
Thank you both for your time in reading this post. I look forward to your answers.
People like me and MANY others have been working on their resistance exposed based teams to get this ???
Even "wasting" money to gear or buy toons to make synergy....for what???
THIS?????
But... the expose thing really burns my bacon. Expose has been the biggest force in raids since people started rocking Resistance in the Tank after expose was reworked. It probably pushed more guilds past the Tank than any development in the game (and it did it with a team that was completely FTP!).
So now... CG is surprised by the use of expose in the new raid?! No one tested Rey teams out before release? Please... it's a joke. Rey teams don't prevent other teams from working... they just provide dependable damage. Nerfing expose is completely bunk; if that's unintended success, the problem is in the design. (No one should be surprised that expose continues to be a force in the raids)
Although... like nerfing STH the month he's the login toon, nerfing the most recent Hero's Journey toon is pretty funny.
Yes. Let’s. It’d be a nice improvement on talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
How did you not find this out in testing though? The raid has been out for 1 week and people already found a 'loophole' using theory crafting. Don't nerf the toons outside of this issue; just close the loop hole.
And I quote, "Now, when Darth Traya becomes Enraged she will dispel all positive status effects on her enemies and apply an undispellable, unresistable buff immunity as well". Why does everything have to be undispellable and unrestable these days? You are basically telling everyone that after she enrages the run with that team is over, but we can't have our toons escape like HAAT.
Then it decided that expose is going to be nerf'd when it has nothing to do with this issue. Hell, the Rez/JTR teams aren't even used to solo HAAT. What data are you using to determine that Rez is stifling the use of other teams? Look at the teams on Peterbutler, and the comments that Ahnald101/MobileGamer have made about using other teams that maybe better than JTR. How does fixing expose in this raid affect the other raids; it doesn't. I am assuming, thousands of people have worked towards Rez for expose. And then you are going to lower the boss health in the Sith raid 'slightly', but all of the nerfs are going to make the raid even harder.
My wife has been working towards Finn's zeta for months so she can be competitive in HAAT, but not solo it as I stated. Are you going to offer her zeta mats to account for the fact that she could have used them elsewhere and of the time and resources?
i agree, Rez teams are the ones solo'ing HAAT so it makes no sense to mess with it in that raid. Plus, i assume a lot of people have done the same thing working towards expose to have the rug pulled on them. My wife zetas'd Finn last week and now is screwed.
Finn's zeta is fairly useless in the Sith raid.
Finn's zeta in HAAT is needed to generate the TM effects. Damage from exposes on the boss is minimal IIRC. But I don't use Finn in HAAT so maybe I'm wrong. The dev follow up would seem to confirm though.
There are things you can do
Like making us panic farming toons and playing with our feelings even making us spend money to stay on tune
Releasing cheap overpower teams for a couple hundred dollara breaking metas (cof NS cof)
Etc
But you cant change the rules stablished
Why cant you even have noticed for example han response to bonds? Or all of those toons?? Have you guys even tested the raid????
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE SUCH A QUICK FIX IN THIS BUT FOR THE 600 TICKETS YOU TOOK MORE THAN A YEAR?? OR FIX THE CHALLENGE MATERIALS IN RAID REWARDS? ETC
WHY??
I Cant fully explain what im feeling right now
Absolute joke. I can see lots of people moving on after this.
Ps how's about fixing tw. Oh no can't do that but your precious raid we can fix within days.
Utter crap
Furious
Pathetic comment lol
yep, p2p toons if people want them for heroic right a way, which basically screws most of us. Warrior did a video where he counted how many times he had to use the 1,299 crystal package to take Sion to 7*, over $300. That is ridiculous and ends any thoughts of moving him to a higher star level and I am glad that i didnt buy the $9.99 package to take him to 4*.
I do, and you are partly right, but we'll now be doing less damage, so if a res team that did 50% of P2 now has reduced damage from expose, they may only manage 40% for example. Won't know how much until the nerf update is pushed.
The true victims of this are the people who barely can clear HAAT and rely on exposes. I think it's a huge kick in the face to nerf teams in content when they both have been out for over a year. There simply isn't an excuse for that period. And with the sith raid making Finn teams in particular useless it's gonna be hard for people to digest.
This was close, I just got my tax return and was going to invest in Visas. Money saved!
my guild is 110m gp. no meta-guild, but we have some strong players.
don‘t know if i can make a top 3 rank once more...
and?
it doesn‘t matter!
with these rewards i need 20-30 raids to get only ONE full gear 12 material!!!
for me they can do what they want.
i had zaul in aat, he got an update. i had zader in the pit, he got an update.
now another update. so what? life goes on, because the rules are for us all the same.
only the rewards for this difficult raid are a joke.
why should i farm my characters, if rank 24 gets a full gear material and i only ....
what is the philosophy behind 2 gear12 salavage...
btw. in territory battles we never saw a full gear12 material.
motivation?
it‘s not necessary to invest in raids, if i need a year to put three gear12 materials on a hero...
That 'large portion of players' have several work—arounds to choose from for beating that combination. Raid bosses don't.
Expose? Not cool.
I understand and respect that this is challenging and heroic should be end game content. But please inform your player base what you mean by that. Should a guild of 50 all have 60-70 g12 fully zetaed toons to run heroic? Help us manage our expectations, because the in game recommendations utterly fail to do so.