The problem with waiting and seeing, is that's it is default acceptance. They will most likely claim "What's done cannot be undone." Complete and utter disregard for what paying customers have been trying to tell them.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
In a basic sense, you're right. But consider this instead:
Nihilus has something like 100 million health. A "good" team that isn't led by Jedi Rey can currently do 4 million, or 4% damage. If they change how Expose works in raids, but also change the health pool to 50 million (just picking a number, no one knows how much the actual amount will be, but I think it'll be higher than that--I just suck at math and want to keep it simple for myself same as you do ) and that same "good" team's damage isn't impacted, then that team is now going to be doing 8% damage. In essence, in this case, everyone's teams become twice as effective.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging crap at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
I hope that, when removing bonds of weakness' activate on damage effects, you guys also remove it on bb-8 so that he doesnt get and also give to traya foresight all the time. Or is the update only against us? A one eay street? @CG_RyDiggs
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
To be sure, they're not changing % health effects, they're changing expose. It sounds like Deathmark and thermal detonators remain unchanged. These are viable options that won't be changed. Moreover, other tems that can't do % health will become more viable. Take sith led by Darth Nihilus--no protection to drain, few buffs to regen Raid Boss Nihilus' protection.
This is simply another case of poor testing of new content. Business as usual, I’m not sure why the player base expected anything else.
Seriously, has there been a SINGLE piece of new content that wasn’t changed, or addressed to be changed, within a week of its release?
Why can’t CG just allow the entire SWGoH player base to be the Beta-testers? If new content is released with the caveat that it WILL change, based on data and feedback and blah blah, then nobody would get irritated about wasting their hard-earned REAL LIFE dollars and in-game currency over the new hip thing. Additionally, we’ll have SUPERIOR content that the players can be proud to contribute to.
My biggest gripe? There are SO many abilities between all the raid bosses and phases that it’s practically impossible to remember what triggers when and when not, that formulating a strategy is impossible. This content is simply too complex and too convoluted. Which is too bad, because I love to theorycraft.
Further, there are too many superlatives within special abilities that contradict one another, it’s simply not possible to count on any ability doing what it’s described to do. Want to put Grand Master’s Training, an ability “which can not be prevented,” on your Jedi team? Well too bad, because the new Sith debuffs totally trump it and make HY absolutely useless. @CG_RyDiggs Why should one superlative trump another without indication? Is there some way to interpret “can not be prevented,” when in fact it can and is prevented consistently? Any idea how incredibly frustrating it is for p2p players to spend several months investing in characters with specific advertised abilities that simply don’t work as advertised?
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
To be sure, they're not changing % health effects, they're changing expose. It sounds like Deathmark and thermal detonators remain unchanged. These are viable options that won't be changed.
Good luck getting detonators to stick with stacking tenacity,first few rounds sure, after that forget it
I dont understand why the deathtrooper/Krennic synergy is getting nerfed either. It doesn't break the raid and you cant solo a phase with it. What you can do is put up some good numbers with a team that is not RJT. Krennic is not a easy toon to get to 7* and a ton of people still don't have him. Still fewer have Deathtrooper's zeta. This is a good mechanic that allows for a good raid team. Please reconsider your decision to nerf. Thank you the new raid, I hope you get these bugs worked out.
Unfortunately, we all know the what’s coming. We have been down this road before.
Just like they have stated, we will be able to finish it...but on their terms, not ours. We out smarted them, kinda embarrassing, and they are now trying to ride the tsunami wave away from this mess.
This raid was meant to last a long time, not to be beaten in the first two weeks of release. I truly believe with whatever they have hidden up their sleeve we will be able to beat it in time. What is that exactly...who knows...only CG.
Most likely a level increase, better mods, G13 and, no doubt, new paywall characters. The most unfortunate thing is this public affairs nightmare probably could have been avoided had they been open and transparent with the community. But, their greed has abscured their ability to do be honest, they have basically ability blocked themselves.
Had they actually come out and said « heya holo table heroes, this is what we have planned: a super hard raid for you, but despair not, we will give you the tools to do it! In the coming months we will Introduce a level increase, more gear you can use, better mods in the store and new characters! »
There are many ways to handle public relations. This is the perfect example of how not to.
I’m not sure why the player base expected anything else.
This is being stated like a mantra at this point.
We get TB (Lightside) and all the requirements that come with it, a bonus round round on day 1 that requires Phoenix at 2*'s? Yeah. Okay. And the crunch grows.
Then Darkside TB, in all it's brokenness, with all of it's requirements. Crunch? What crunch? Issues? What issues?
Phases will run 12 hours....scratch that. Players might earn too much too fast.
Enter TW. Well, you keep on keeping on with the "marathon and resource management". 25M difference in GP? Whatever. No biggie.
Sith Raid. You can't win. But your not winning too quick, so we'll bring the nerfs. Just make sure you have JTR because the game is about...well, it's about prerequisite bottlenecks and P2P.
But hey you've got G12 now! So we'll do away with this G9-G11 crunch. Well, no we won't.
But hey the QoL gave us...... Filters? Oh, and height based arrangements. Yup.
With a 6 year plan of action you too can play SWGOH!
Listened to a YouTuber and basically with the nerfs still will make JtR the only viable squad for heroic. Sure other squads can for much less dmg but heroic will never get beaten unless our guild has a lot of JtR sqauds. Personally that doesn’t sit to well with me bc I don’t want JtR and don’t want to feel forced to get her.
Team Instinct needed 46 JTR teams (at least what i heard) to clear P1/P2, so 23 per phase. Now because they did it they are stifling creativity, yet the devs give the rest of us no option!
But, like, did you notice they said they're re-evaluating the health pools?
I get what you're saying, to be clear. You're saying that Team Instinct was only able to do it because they used 46 Jedi Reys to get through the first two phases, and from that you're extrapolating that changing how Expose works in this raid will mean we're all screwed.
But we can't really judge anything until we know how much the health of those phases will be adjusted. It seems, to me, that the intent of the change is to make it so that Exposes aren't the only viable option any more. If they simply lowered the health, then Expose would still be the most viable option--sure, other teams could scratch Nihilus' paint, but you're still only going to use Jedi Rey. By lowering the amount of health AND lowering the efficacy of Expose, you're making other teams viable AND reducing the necessity of the one power team.
As I said, that seems to be the intent. Whether or not that's how it shakes out remains to be seen. But your comment only addresses one facet of the whole announcement, which is wrongheaded.
I see what you are saying, but i disagree. if they dont change any of raid mechanics, having lower health does not make any team more viable. However, if they drop Nihilist's health to 75m from 100m and the guild can on average do 1m damage per team, then yes the guild only needs 75 teams to clear P1 instead of 100, but that doesn't make a team more viable, though it does in the general sense make the raid easier. However, if the guild, like I assume most are, there are a few player that do a high percentage of the damage and the rest do varying amounts; lowering the health of the boss, but reducing the effectiveness of expose to a greater degree may make it that those guilds can't rely on the big hitters and dont have enough weaker teams to clear the raid at that tier have to drop down.
As for Team Instinct, they will continue to clear this raid even with the JTR nerf. I was looking at their stats on swgoh.gg and the roster is so deep it really isn't an issue for them, but because of their accomplishment expose is getting nerfed. The fact that guilds don't have near that many JTR teams makes it so that we have to be creative, but the devs seem to be ignoring that fact.
Separate from this raid, there is concern that reducing strength of expose will make it so a lot of guilds will no longer be able to rely on Rez/JTR to complete HAAT, which is in my opinion is the travesty. They want/need to fix this raid then fine, but to go and implement a nerf across all raids is garbage. Especially considering that people have been directed to focus on Rez and expose for HAAT for a long time.
Who do I I talk to about getting my money refunded from this game? I’ve lived through the nerfing of zarriss and didn’t get my money refunded like many of others. I’ve been spending like crazy on this game to stay competitive since i’m In a guild with 168gp, you have to spend to continue to be in the guild. I’m so mad right now i’m about to call my lawyer about your bait and switch practices with your game and my money. I would like all my money refunded from Dec 1st on to make me closer to whole again. Not counting the zarriss money owed to me.
Most likely a level increase, better mods, G13 and, no doubt, new paywall characters. The most unfortunate thing is this public affairs nightmare probably could have been avoided had they been open and transparent with the community. But, their greed has abscured their ability to do be honest, they have basically ability blocked themselves.
Had they actually come out and said « heya holo table heroes, this is what we have planned: a super hard raid for you, but despair not, we will give you the tools to do it! In the coming months we will Introduce a level increase, more gear you can use, better mods in the store and new characters! »
There are many ways to handle public relations. This is the perfect example of how not to.
Well said. Unfortunately, they want information blackout to their advantages. We all know 6/7 dots mods are coming and level increase too.
If they flat out say like it, mod store shenanigans ( letting you buy soon-to-be useless 4/ 5 dots mod with credits) will be exposed - which they can't do.
I can understand why everyone is frustrated and are making great points, but we should really appreciate the effort @CG_RyDiggs is making to try to explain the situation and motivation behind the update. I can understand wanting to remove infinite loops, because it takes the challenge of character strategy and team formation out of the game completely. Thank you to CG for all of your efforts in making this an all around enjoyable game.
I can understand why everyone is frustrated and are making great points, but we should really appreciate the effort @CG_RyDiggs is making to try to explain the situation and motivation behind the update. I can understand wanting to remove infinite loops, because it takes the challenge of character strategy and team formation out of the game completely. Thank you to CG for all of your efforts in making this an all around enjoyable game.
Don't kid yourself, CG as a whole is only out to make money. @CG_RyDiggs only has a job because they know they'll lose money without communication with the community. Also RyDiggs most definitely has superiors that limit what he can or can't say. I know we want to feel like they're on our side sometimes but they're a business first, and ultimately don't care what a majority of us wants unless it makes them money. Example of my last point being challenge gear in raids, they've flat out said it's not going away, can't have people getting too much useful gear because that means less bought with shards.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
Ofcourse lowering the health makes it easier. Your damage goes down, but the percentage of damage an expose does remains unaffected by a health reduction.
I'd rather have my exposes do 10k dmg than 20k dmg because that means the boss has half the health. So while the damage an expose does might be lowered twice, it being lower due to the raidboss having lower health is definately NOT a nerf.
Its the same as working 8 hrs for $10/hr or 7 hrs for $8/hr. Lowering both doesn't make it better.
The nerf on exposes is working for $7/h instead of $8/h
The health reduction is working 7h for $56 instead of just $49
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
not nerfing tenacity doesn't promote varying strategies either, you could just run your rancor and AAT squads.
The increased speed of the boss would already offset all the problems that can possibly be created by debuffs. It doesn't matter if you can chain expose with Resistance for example if your raid boss ends up at 1000+ speed very quickly.
The increased speed of the boss would already offset all the problems that can possibly be created by debuffs. It doesn't matter if you can chain expose with Resistance for example if your raid boss ends up at 1000+ speed very quickly.
So you're saying we need to complain about the stacking speed aswell?
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
not nerfing tenacity doesn't promote varying strategies either, you could just run your rancor and AAT squads.
I think you meant to disagree with me but instead worded as if agreeing with me?
And no you wouldn't just run your rancor and aat squads. Make them immune to to TM reduction and tenacity down. Make each phase variable in regards to what buffs and debuffs may or may not work, make the minions actually do something unique or useful. There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
The expose nerf sends a very clear message: "you beat the raid without the tools we were going to sell you. We need this raid to be unbeatable for a longer period of time. Until you buy our new products, we wont let you have it."
Lets be clear, overall I think CG did a good job maintaining this game so far. The current fiasco is a by-product of poor dev-management communication. It's seen in every aspect of life. Managers are trained to produce money. They rarely understand even how their restaurant works, saying they understand coding is just ridiculous. I know a few enthusiastic programmers that care about what they make that have had a sour taste countless times because their manager bosses said it had to be this or that way and tied their hands.
And money is what drove the expose nerf. They NEED their product to sell. While I believe this thread will have an impact on future decisions, the logic in this thread is 0% responsible for that. Only the fact that they know they will lose money if they dont fix this is.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
not nerfing tenacity doesn't promote varying strategies either, you could just run your rancor and AAT squads.
I think you meant to disagree with me but instead worded as if agreeing with me?
And no you wouldn't just run your rancor and aat squads. Make them immune to to TM reduction and tenacity down. Make each phase variable in regards to what buffs and debuffs may or may not work, make the minions actually do something unique or useful. There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
Yea, i meant to disagree.
You say it's easy, but it's not. Your suggestion sounds nice in comparrison to how it is now, but if it was like that from the get go without making the raid easier, you would have suggested something different. It's all relative.
Also, they desinged the raid for us to chip away, chip away, chip away. They made that very clear.
edit: To be honest, i mainly responded to your post because you said reducing health won't achieve anything in response to that other guys post. That annoys me to no end because reducing health is exactly what buffs every other team relative to JTR and Deathtrooper teams, all while making the raid easier to tackle.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
And that's the real issue. I was initially hopeful of the new raid. Saw the videos, played a little bit with it, thought of various teams. Then I started trying out teams, and realized how high the tenacity was. That was disappointing. Immunity to TMR I can understand, but immunity to debuffs? Why? Strategy-wise, only thing I can think of is zEP and zFinn. Maybe they thought you can get infinite TM? The stacking speed per hit for bosses should solve that. Which brings me to my other point.
The "philosophy". It's clear what the philosophy is. I bet that guilds with inexhaustible rosters will still be able to do Heroic after the changes. The only real strategy is chip away, chip away, chip away. You managed to insert the Territory Battles/Wars mentality in raids. A year from now, we're going to have a couple of toons that enable more guilds to do Heroic, for sure. But the novelty of the raid will have been gone by then. The "philosophy" has stopped being about challenging content since the first TB was announced. The "philosophy" is releasing content only for a select few, and have the rest of us stare outside the shop window. I don't think stuff should be free. You need cash to make quality content. But, I don't think stuff should cost thousands of dollars either.
The increased speed of the boss would already offset all the problems that can possibly be created by debuffs. It doesn't matter if you can chain expose with Resistance for example if your raid boss ends up at 1000+ speed very quickly.
So you're saying we need to complain about the stacking speed aswell?
No, the opposite. Speed stacking prevents certain abuses in a pretty good way. Stacking Tenacity could also be good, if it stacked slower. If it stacks at 5% per attack, it'll still prevent abusive things.
The expose nerf could be addressed simply as: Jedi Rey's expose is only unresistable by character, bosses can resist it. Done.
I like the game and i spend some cash to support the devolpment of the game and to get more intresting gameplay.
For topguilds to be only be able to beet the boss 2 times within first 48 hours with exploits (shan)and overuse by one character (rjt) I see as bad for the game and i am sorry for the 37 pages of rambling/whining and complaining of other players. Its way to much critics for this lovely game.
I work at a International gambling company and before we release games we have internal quality control and audits of systems and stresstest em for panic/failure/exploits/statistics and so on. This is something i know CG is doing, but it can be done better in the future
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want stupid hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
I like the game and i spend some cash to support the devolpment of the game and to get more intresting gameplay.
For topguilds to be only be able to beet the boss 2 times within first 48 hours with exploits (shan)and overuse by one character (rjt) I see as bad for the game and i am sorry for the 37 pages of rambling/whining and complaining of other players. Its way to much critics for this lovely game.
I work at a International gambling company and before we release games we have internal quality control and audits of systems and stresstest em for panic/failure/exploits/statistics and so on. This is something i know CG is doing, but it can be done better in the future
Comparing a gambling system to a raid system is prety much comparing a diesel engine to a rocket engine. Here is why:
Diesel engine is a old system, pretty reliable. It works, our experience makes it easy to identify faults. We still keep improving it, but in the end it's still has the same core as all diesel engines.
Rocket engine is new system, not very reliable. We are still very inexperienced at it and sometimes faults dont look like faults at all. Things explode, just like diesel engines broke down before we got the to the point where they are now. Rocket engines tend to make very shard turns in development, sometimes the new system looks nothing like the old one.
Not only is your internal quality control a routine task, gambling games are all the same at core. You test propability, you fine tune it so the house always wins. I know I am just scratching the surface, but the fact that gambling has been around since Jesus stands. 80% of your gambling game fits into the packs, which are just a fraction of this game. Gambling systems have exploit holes, but they are all mostly known by now. Mobile games are a very young. There are tons of exploit holes and anyone who knows even basics of programming knows this is because it's the nature of programming. Looking at back-end of most codes would probably make you want to scream and gouge your eyes out.
STHan is a very good example of why a small audit wont work. The devs probably didn't even test him. Even if they did, there is a reasonable chance they just overlooked it as "a normal speed thing". It would take 10 seconds for someone who is familiar with his roster to notice that something is off, very off.
I respect your post and point of view, but I simply feel that you are trying to compare things that cannot be put to comparison.
Replies
In a basic sense, you're right. But consider this instead:
Nihilus has something like 100 million health. A "good" team that isn't led by Jedi Rey can currently do 4 million, or 4% damage. If they change how Expose works in raids, but also change the health pool to 50 million (just picking a number, no one knows how much the actual amount will be, but I think it'll be higher than that--I just suck at math and want to keep it simple for myself same as you do
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging crap at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
To be sure, they're not changing % health effects, they're changing expose. It sounds like Deathmark and thermal detonators remain unchanged. These are viable options that won't be changed. Moreover, other tems that can't do % health will become more viable. Take sith led by Darth Nihilus--no protection to drain, few buffs to regen Raid Boss Nihilus' protection.
Seriously, has there been a SINGLE piece of new content that wasn’t changed, or addressed to be changed, within a week of its release?
Why can’t CG just allow the entire SWGoH player base to be the Beta-testers? If new content is released with the caveat that it WILL change, based on data and feedback and blah blah, then nobody would get irritated about wasting their hard-earned REAL LIFE dollars and in-game currency over the new hip thing. Additionally, we’ll have SUPERIOR content that the players can be proud to contribute to.
My biggest gripe? There are SO many abilities between all the raid bosses and phases that it’s practically impossible to remember what triggers when and when not, that formulating a strategy is impossible. This content is simply too complex and too convoluted. Which is too bad, because I love to theorycraft.
Further, there are too many superlatives within special abilities that contradict one another, it’s simply not possible to count on any ability doing what it’s described to do. Want to put Grand Master’s Training, an ability “which can not be prevented,” on your Jedi team? Well too bad, because the new Sith debuffs totally trump it and make HY absolutely useless. @CG_RyDiggs Why should one superlative trump another without indication? Is there some way to interpret “can not be prevented,” when in fact it can and is prevented consistently? Any idea how incredibly frustrating it is for p2p players to spend several months investing in characters with specific advertised abilities that simply don’t work as advertised?
Good luck getting detonators to stick with stacking tenacity,first few rounds sure, after that forget it
Just like they have stated, we will be able to finish it...but on their terms, not ours. We out smarted them, kinda embarrassing, and they are now trying to ride the tsunami wave away from this mess.
This raid was meant to last a long time, not to be beaten in the first two weeks of release. I truly believe with whatever they have hidden up their sleeve we will be able to beat it in time. What is that exactly...who knows...only CG.
Most likely a level increase, better mods, G13 and, no doubt, new paywall characters. The most unfortunate thing is this public affairs nightmare probably could have been avoided had they been open and transparent with the community. But, their greed has abscured their ability to do be honest, they have basically ability blocked themselves.
Had they actually come out and said « heya holo table heroes, this is what we have planned: a super hard raid for you, but despair not, we will give you the tools to do it! In the coming months we will Introduce a level increase, more gear you can use, better mods in the store and new characters! »
There are many ways to handle public relations. This is the perfect example of how not to.
This is being stated like a mantra at this point.
We get TB (Lightside) and all the requirements that come with it, a bonus round round on day 1 that requires Phoenix at 2*'s? Yeah. Okay. And the crunch grows.
Then Darkside TB, in all it's brokenness, with all of it's requirements. Crunch? What crunch? Issues? What issues?
Phases will run 12 hours....scratch that. Players might earn too much too fast.
Enter TW. Well, you keep on keeping on with the "marathon and resource management". 25M difference in GP? Whatever. No biggie.
Sith Raid. You can't win. But your not winning too quick, so we'll bring the nerfs. Just make sure you have JTR because the game is about...well, it's about prerequisite bottlenecks and P2P.
But hey you've got G12 now! So we'll do away with this G9-G11 crunch. Well, no we won't.
But hey the QoL gave us...... Filters? Oh, and height based arrangements. Yup.
With a 6 year plan of action you too can play SWGOH!
I see what you are saying, but i disagree. if they dont change any of raid mechanics, having lower health does not make any team more viable. However, if they drop Nihilist's health to 75m from 100m and the guild can on average do 1m damage per team, then yes the guild only needs 75 teams to clear P1 instead of 100, but that doesn't make a team more viable, though it does in the general sense make the raid easier. However, if the guild, like I assume most are, there are a few player that do a high percentage of the damage and the rest do varying amounts; lowering the health of the boss, but reducing the effectiveness of expose to a greater degree may make it that those guilds can't rely on the big hitters and dont have enough weaker teams to clear the raid at that tier have to drop down.
As for Team Instinct, they will continue to clear this raid even with the JTR nerf. I was looking at their stats on swgoh.gg and the roster is so deep it really isn't an issue for them, but because of their accomplishment expose is getting nerfed. The fact that guilds don't have near that many JTR teams makes it so that we have to be creative, but the devs seem to be ignoring that fact.
Separate from this raid, there is concern that reducing strength of expose will make it so a lot of guilds will no longer be able to rely on Rez/JTR to complete HAAT, which is in my opinion is the travesty. They want/need to fix this raid then fine, but to go and implement a nerf across all raids is garbage. Especially considering that people have been directed to focus on Rez and expose for HAAT for a long time.
Well said. Unfortunately, they want information blackout to their advantages. We all know 6/7 dots mods are coming and level increase too.
If they flat out say like it, mod store shenanigans ( letting you buy soon-to-be useless 4/ 5 dots mod with credits) will be exposed - which they can't do.
Don't kid yourself, CG as a whole is only out to make money. @CG_RyDiggs only has a job because they know they'll lose money without communication with the community. Also RyDiggs most definitely has superiors that limit what he can or can't say. I know we want to feel like they're on our side sometimes but they're a business first, and ultimately don't care what a majority of us wants unless it makes them money. Example of my last point being challenge gear in raids, they've flat out said it's not going away, can't have people getting too much useful gear because that means less bought with shards.
The nerf on exposes is working for $7/h instead of $8/h
The health reduction is working 7h for $56 instead of just $49
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
not nerfing tenacity doesn't promote varying strategies either, you could just run your rancor and AAT squads.
So you're saying we need to complain about the stacking speed aswell?
I think you meant to disagree with me but instead worded as if agreeing with me?
And no you wouldn't just run your rancor and aat squads. Make them immune to to TM reduction and tenacity down. Make each phase variable in regards to what buffs and debuffs may or may not work, make the minions actually do something unique or useful. There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
Lets be clear, overall I think CG did a good job maintaining this game so far. The current fiasco is a by-product of poor dev-management communication. It's seen in every aspect of life. Managers are trained to produce money. They rarely understand even how their restaurant works, saying they understand coding is just ridiculous. I know a few enthusiastic programmers that care about what they make that have had a sour taste countless times because their manager bosses said it had to be this or that way and tied their hands.
And money is what drove the expose nerf. They NEED their product to sell. While I believe this thread will have an impact on future decisions, the logic in this thread is 0% responsible for that. Only the fact that they know they will lose money if they dont fix this is.
Yea, i meant to disagree.
You say it's easy, but it's not. Your suggestion sounds nice in comparrison to how it is now, but if it was like that from the get go without making the raid easier, you would have suggested something different. It's all relative.
Also, they desinged the raid for us to chip away, chip away, chip away. They made that very clear.
edit: To be honest, i mainly responded to your post because you said reducing health won't achieve anything in response to that other guys post. That annoys me to no end because reducing health is exactly what buffs every other team relative to JTR and Deathtrooper teams, all while making the raid easier to tackle.
And that's the real issue. I was initially hopeful of the new raid. Saw the videos, played a little bit with it, thought of various teams. Then I started trying out teams, and realized how high the tenacity was. That was disappointing. Immunity to TMR I can understand, but immunity to debuffs? Why? Strategy-wise, only thing I can think of is zEP and zFinn. Maybe they thought you can get infinite TM? The stacking speed per hit for bosses should solve that. Which brings me to my other point.
The "philosophy". It's clear what the philosophy is. I bet that guilds with inexhaustible rosters will still be able to do Heroic after the changes. The only real strategy is chip away, chip away, chip away. You managed to insert the Territory Battles/Wars mentality in raids. A year from now, we're going to have a couple of toons that enable more guilds to do Heroic, for sure. But the novelty of the raid will have been gone by then. The "philosophy" has stopped being about challenging content since the first TB was announced. The "philosophy" is releasing content only for a select few, and have the rest of us stare outside the shop window. I don't think stuff should be free. You need cash to make quality content. But, I don't think stuff should cost thousands of dollars either.
No, the opposite. Speed stacking prevents certain abuses in a pretty good way. Stacking Tenacity could also be good, if it stacked slower. If it stacks at 5% per attack, it'll still prevent abusive things.
The expose nerf could be addressed simply as: Jedi Rey's expose is only unresistable by character, bosses can resist it. Done.
How about a fix for people unlocking Chimaera with only 3 ships?
Oh but sth and expose getting “fixed” barely took a week.
Good company policy if you ask me! All in the game’s and players’ interest.
I like the game and i spend some cash to support the devolpment of the game and to get more intresting gameplay.
For topguilds to be only be able to beet the boss 2 times within first 48 hours with exploits (shan)and overuse by one character (rjt) I see as bad for the game and i am sorry for the 37 pages of rambling/whining and complaining of other players. Its way to much critics for this lovely game.
I work at a International gambling company and before we release games we have internal quality control and audits of systems and stresstest em for panic/failure/exploits/statistics and so on. This is something i know CG is doing, but it can be done better in the future
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want stupid hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Comparing a gambling system to a raid system is prety much comparing a diesel engine to a rocket engine. Here is why:
Diesel engine is a old system, pretty reliable. It works, our experience makes it easy to identify faults. We still keep improving it, but in the end it's still has the same core as all diesel engines.
Rocket engine is new system, not very reliable. We are still very inexperienced at it and sometimes faults dont look like faults at all. Things explode, just like diesel engines broke down before we got the to the point where they are now. Rocket engines tend to make very shard turns in development, sometimes the new system looks nothing like the old one.
Not only is your internal quality control a routine task, gambling games are all the same at core. You test propability, you fine tune it so the house always wins. I know I am just scratching the surface, but the fact that gambling has been around since Jesus stands. 80% of your gambling game fits into the packs, which are just a fraction of this game. Gambling systems have exploit holes, but they are all mostly known by now. Mobile games are a very young. There are tons of exploit holes and anyone who knows even basics of programming knows this is because it's the nature of programming. Looking at back-end of most codes would probably make you want to scream and gouge your eyes out.
STHan is a very good example of why a small audit wont work. The devs probably didn't even test him. Even if they did, there is a reasonable chance they just overlooked it as "a normal speed thing". It would take 10 seconds for someone who is familiar with his roster to notice that something is off, very off.
I respect your post and point of view, but I simply feel that you are trying to compare things that cannot be put to comparison.