We are aware that some Guilds are battling in Territory Wars against higher GP Guilds with a deeper roster and can feel impossible to beat. Currently, we don’t see any egregious issues in the data but, after looking at the posts on the forums, it’s clear that we need to investigate further. Territory War Matchmaker is something we have been monitoring closely for a while but we still need to gather more info about the current situation.
I am combing through the forum for past GP mismatches for my report but I could use your help. Please post here with the following info if you have experienced a large mismatch in Guild GP during Territory War in the last couple months (last change to TW matchmaker was in March 2018):
- Date of TW:
- Your Guild’s GP
- Opposing team’s GP:
- # of my guild members who joined:
- # of opposing guild members who joined:
Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.
Date of TW: Today's and the last 10+
Your Guild’s GP: this time 130m gp
Opposing team’s GP:this time 150m+ gp
# of my guild members who joined: 48/50
# of opposing guild members who joined: There's no way to tell in-game
p.s. Thanks for looking into this
p.p.s. We had five sit out this war, and ended up facing a 110m or so guild. We beat them without even trying hard. Their highest teams on defense were 70-90k with about four at 100+. We had our first four zones filled with 95-110+ teams, so they were stuck trying to chip thru. Now that will be our new practice, we'll just rotate five or six guys each war, and get much better results until this issue is fixed.
p.p.p.s. This war I got a different five low guys sit out.. our total is 138 GP, 121 GP active.. opponent is a 124 GP guild with lower average players. They are much closer than the last match tho, and I suspect they dropped a few as well..
pppps (or whatever): 10/5 war- We're up to 140m, 43/50 entered with active gp of 120m.
Our opponents are 112m, 47/49 entered with 107.5m.
This seems to prove that the system can easily be exploited for easy wins. Thanks again.
19 Sept 2018
50/50 member registered
Don’t know about opponent
23 squads per territory.
50/50 for both guilds
Us-146 mil GP
Opponent- 157 mil
They had Traya and Bastila walls. He have like 8 traya.
We have been matched with guilds 10-20 mil more than us every TW. We managed to beat one last time. Others were impossible unless the opponent would have not tried to win.
Your Guild’s (Shaggy Bevo) GP: Active GP 133M
Opposing team’s (The Rępublic) GP: Active GP 154.5M (confirmed with opposing guild)
# of my guild members who joined: 50
# of opposing guild members who joined: 47 (confirmed with opposing guild)
Please see below thread for further details:
Your Guild’s GP: 157M
Opposing team’s GP: 186M
# of my guild members who joined: 50
# of opposing guild members who joined: 47
(We had someone leave mid-TW)
We had 34/50 members sign up, they only had 29 total in whole guild.
I do not have their GP prior to war. Our total is 55K. (Active War GP was 43K). Theirs currently is 45k. But note the difference in guild size. They had more G12 and JTRey in one area than our entire guild has together.
GP: Caballeros de la República (us) 98m
Reckless (Theirs) 130m
Memebers: us 50
Your guilds GP: 134 million (Strontium Dogs)
Opposing guild: 163 million (Order 66 212th Attack Div)
Number of Guild members that joined; 47/50
Number of opposing guild that joined; unknown but was only allowed to place 22 per territory
[Edit] Adding “our guild average GP 2,683,360 their average GP 3,272,363”
I dont have details of the previous TW but its was proportianally very similar, though the one before that was a perfect match (and great fun) that went right down to the wire.
The last two were not even worth us bothering with, just ignore and take the 2 Zetas, meaning TW is quickly moving from one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game too “pointless and frustrating free loot”.
Your Guild’s GP: 97,159,809 (Active GP in TW: 90.472,529)
Opposing team’s GP: 138,038,056
# of my guild members who joined: 46
# of opposing guild members who joined: unknown
19 people per territory for defense.
Our GP: 93m
Their GP: 137m
Our #: 45
Their #: 38 or 39, based on 19 squads per territory
Further information: They cleaned us out and neither we or any of our opponents have been close to doing this in our previous wars
Date of TW: Most Recent
Your Guild’s GP 66 mi
Opposing team’s GP: 110 mil
# of my guild members who joined: 48
# of opposing guild members who joined: N/A
This has happened to us EVERY TIME we have crossed over the 60 mil GP mark, don't know if its a coincidence.
They took down 25 teams in total, but not in the same territory.
The one before that was a little closer
We have been on the losing side too, but not quite this lopsided.
Date of TW: September 19th 2018
Your Guild’s GP: 193mil
Opposing team’s GP: 209mil (and 1500 more g12 toons)
# of my guild members who joined: 50
# of opposing guild members who joined: 50
seems like a small difference compared to some
in here lol
My guilds GP 153 million
Opposition 165,954 million
My members registered 50
Not sure about there’s but 24 squads were needed for each Territory.
We didn’t have a prayer.
Our guild gp: appx 75 mil.
Their guild gp: 135 mil.
47 members of our guild participated.
Unsure of how many of theirs joined. 18 spots needed to be filled in each area.
We lost hardcore. They cleared our board, we took out 3-4 spots.
It's been like this for maybe the last 10 TW's.
Matchmaking for our last two TWs has been particularly poor.
On September 9, we were matched with Sweden https://swgoh.gg/g/13128/sweden/
A 114M GP guild with ~40 members joined (compared to our ~71M and 49 members).
On September 17, we were matched with Diablos https://swgoh.gg/g/2309/diablos/
A 135M GP guild with ~36 members joined (compared to our ~73M and 47 members)
Given the 40M+ GP difference between the guilds, neither TW was competitive. When the matchmaking works, TW is an awesome game mode; but its incredibly discouraging to know that you have no chance of winning seconds after the matchups are decided. I would make two additional points about this.
1. Please be transparent about the factors that go into matchmaking. At this point, all we really know is the GP of the joined members is one of the criteria and this lack of transparency together with the resulting speculation of how some of these matchups occurred damages the credibility of the game mode.
2. Although its difficult to tell given the lack of transparency, it certainly appears that guilds with high participation but lower GP are regularly getting matched with guilds with higher GP and lower participation. As you can imagine, it can be very difficult for the lower GP guild to be competitive in this scenario since it can't match the high end squads of the competing guild. The net result of this is that the matchmaking system is effectively penalizing guilds with high participation which should be the exact opposite of what CG should want in this scenario.
I appreciate CG looking into this and hope productive changes will be forthcoming.
Your algorithm is using GP exclusively which is a bad way to calculate it. It's high time you either change the way GP is calculated or change at least the TB algorithm. What NEEDS to be part of the formula:
- amount of zetas
- amount of chars above a certain gear level
- amount of chars below a certain lvl/gear lvl/star lvl so it somewhat excludes g5 crap that you have but is unusable. Cheers
These are the last three guilds we have faced in TW.
Our guild, The Wampa Den, GP has ranged from 56 Million, to 58 Million to most recently 62 Million with 40 to 44 players signed up (our whole guild minus two).
These are only the ones I have pictures for but thus has been going on for probably the last 8 TW.
Each time we have almost our whole guild join and end up facing a guild with way more GP but only have 34-36 players join.
It is extremely frustrating to come against the type of depth that these guilds have with average joined GP of over 2 million when our guild average is at best somewhere around 1.5 million.
It's literally not possible to be competitive on both sides of the playing field and we have been forced to either deploy all of our strongest teams to defense and forego any attacking power, or completely abandon defense and make a futile attempt to clear their territories in less attempts.
Not only is it frustrating as a coordinating officer but it has taken a noticeable toll on our entire guilds morale every time TW rolls around. It's very dissapointing to have our intra-guild dynamics affected by a poor matchmaking algorithm and has even caused some of our strongest members to leave.
Elite Class (We won)
We were ~80-90mil at the time (109,788,337 today)
They were 110,047,118 at the time (135,831,210 today)
47 registrants for our guild.
No way to tell their registration numbers.
I included this one because it was my first TW as coordinator for which I actually kept data and I made a comment in our discord that we were at a 30mil GP disadvantage, which leads me to believe that at the time our guild was around 80-90mil GP.
Friendly Peacekeepers (We lost)
We are 109,788,337 today.
They were 139,127,459 at the time (144,566,745 today)
50 registrants for our guild.
Vitality (We lost)
We're 109,788,337 today.
They were 118,674,534 at the time (119,836,990 today)
45 of our members registered.
Terra (I failed to make a spreadsheet for this one, but we lost)
We're 109,788,337 today.
They were 126,899,791 at the time (128,767,320 today)
Exact number of registrants is unknown because I didn't make the spreadsheet.
DeathKnights League (We lost)
This was just a few days ago, so we were around 109,788,337
Same as above, they're still around 120,664,342
49 registrants for us.
I haven't made the spreadsheet for this one yet because it just ended and we've got another one starting up now.
I have attached the three relevant spreadsheets I have, and would be happy to provide the sheet for the DK League TW when I finish it this weekend. If there are any questions about my data I'd be happy to answer them.
The TW matchup system is horribly flawed and my guild has suffered for months because of it. Most of our members absolutely hate TW because it feels like we can't win. We've just brought on a second coordinator to help with individual strategies, but strategizing and squad comp can only take you so far when you're a competitive f2p guild going up against serious whales on a regular basis. It's atrocious.
We, the Heroes of Germany
50 Member, 145 GP
Guild id: 27345
Active in the war: 47 and 136 GP
Other Guild: 49 members, 159 GP
Active 46 or 47, without the best 3 players
~ 147 GP
-> we 120 - 139.9 GP
they 140 - 159.9 GP
Our guild: True North Force
Our GP: 73M
Our members joined: 41
Opponent's guild: Hold My Schwartz
Opponent's GP: 131M
Opponent's members joined: we believe 32, as there were 16slots per territory available
This is the largest discrepancy between GP's that I've heard of in any forum thus far.
GalacticTeam1 vs Igloo Force Masters
49 vs 49
94,841,595 vs 115,476,022
[*] Date of TW: 2018-09-23
[*] Your Guild’s GP: 143m total
[*] Opposing team’s GP: 159m
[*] # of my guild members who joined: 49
[*] # of opposing guild members who joined: 45-46 (23 teams per territory)
I have attached our bot comparison for your review. Please fix this issue as it is very demoralizing for our guild to be up against a team with almost 4x the amount of zztrayas and nearly 300 total zetas more than our guild. Thanks and credit to the discord bot creator.
Thank you @EventineElessedil for posting from the winning side of this. If more guilds who benefit from this issue post like you did it has a better chance of improving. Thank you.
As you can see our 130 million gp guild versus their 160 million gp guild is still very close to one another. In fact after my awesome edits I'd say we have an edge on them.
We had all 50 join, they had 46 join.
This war is taking place right now on 9/23/18.
Thank you for looking into this, as it kind of removes the fun from playing this game mode. Maybe a better way to match players would be to pull their g10+ gp and # of zeta.
Lol you’ve noticed no issues, but there’s a thread dedicated to it. How about this:
Date of TW: 9/23/2018
Your Guild’s GP: 131,576,676
Opposing team’s GP: 160,313,442
# of my guild members who joined: 50/50
# of opposing guild members who joined: 46/50