Nightsister Zombie Rework: Begone Paper, Hello Fat [MEGA]

Replies

  • Here's the basic gist of the changes you will experience if you bump Zombie up to G10 for unlimited revives:

    Sith Raid P3: Your scores will be more consistent, but with an added hurdle of some initial setup RNG. Which means an easier setup because your max score has more to do with the beginning of your run than the end of your run. So restarts will be clear right from the start. And by consistent I mean that your scores will be more based on how fast you can burn through the revives and start the train than it will be dependent on how lucky you get after Enrage hits. So, a lower score threshold, but more attached to playing and modding well than just hoping for good RNG throughout the run.

    Sith Raid P4: Your scores should go up because a well-geared Zombie produced more consistent successes in this phase anyway. With the new revive mechanic and an additional source of team healing to fight the Bonds of Weakness and potentially activate Ventress leadership more, I see potential.

    I use Nightsisters as my main teams for P3 and P4 of the Sith Raid (though I like using them for P4 more). I'm willing to give this a try because it just means going back to the drawing board and figuring out what ways to adapt my current strategy and achieve something better.
  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Artery wrote: »
    Correct me if I’m wrong please but if ‘paper zombie teams will be unable to solo Nihilus in p4 of the HST’, how will ‘scores improve in p4’?

    by gearing up Zombie of course :wink:

    Nope they won’t improve. If you did good with a paper zombie you’ll do as good or (most likely) a lot worse. Expect your damage to be cut in half due to this and for the ns to still be useless in pvp

    NS are not useless in PVP, they are great in TW and this update makes them tougher, on either Offense or Defense. It seems like most people commenting on this thread completely forget about all the other game modes that you can use NS. With this change the "zombie death cycle" in DSTB most likely won't happen. As with every other change we will need to learn and adapt to new strategies.

    Ok I’m sorry they’ll maintain their usefulness in tw but will not have viability in arena. And they won’t be any better in tw than they were before. This is a nerf plain and simple.

    I disagree, I think they will be a harder team to deal with in TW. I think they will be better in DSTB. I'm sure someone will figure out how to use MT/Zombie in Arena.

    You can use them effectively in all these areas as is though so why say it changes them for the better. This isn’t an improvement in any of these areas it’s is either status quo or a dramatic downgrade. I can three star all of dstb with my current ns team and I get at least 2 defenses every time in tw. How is this mechanic and nerf going to improve that? Answer it won’t. It’ll make them worse.

    I'm not sure what 3 star all of DSTB means. Are you in one of the top guilds that has achieved 48*s? Again I'm not sure where you are coming up with this change will make anything worse. It will require you to change your strategy that is all.
  • Why are there so many people defending the ns cheese?

    Tbh, i think the only people who are defending it are people with bad rosters who were cheesing their way to the top of hstr.

    Most people who understand the game mechanics are loving this update, and absolutely hate the p3 team. (So much so that they have vowed to never use that cheesy team).


    I'll say it again, great work CG. Love the update. I have all the resources for the cheese p3 team, but will never use it. Ever.

    I agree with everything you said. This is a big Buff to the NS team, not a nerf. The P3 team was a cheap gimmick to begin with. Scores in P4 will be the same if not higher. Brings NS back into the Meta in arena. Good luck dealing with this team in TW. Imperial Troopers no longer wipes them out.

    It was not a cheese at all and if you’re gonna say it’s gonna totally eliminate a team and strategy then it is a nerf. Saying it’s not is lying and being dishonest just because it doesn’t effect you.
  • Although I would still like the option for a zeta refund for all NS toons (not gear, just zeta), I would like to point out that the new zombie unique at G10 will trigger two stacks for Asaaj unique zeta each time (for a total of four stacks) and also some other crazy stuff. Look at the following scenario:

    If you are facing an NS team and you fracture or isolate zombie and try to take out another NS toon, the first TWO times you try to do this, the NS toon is DEFEATED but immediately REVIVES. Zombie is DEFEATED and immediately REVIVES.

    What else happens when a toon is DEFEATED and REVIVED on Nightsister team? DAKA happens. Look at the Daka unique text:

    When another ally is DEFEATED, Old Daka gains 50% TM and Chant of Resurrection cooldown is reduced by 1. When another ally is REVIVED while old Daka is active, REVIVED ally gains 20% TM, gains offense up and defense up for two turns. If you have the zeta, Daka gains +10% Max Health stacking.

    So the first TWO times you defeat another NS toon, zombie is killed and immediately revived, gets 70% TM, offense up, defense up, gets the negative speed removed, the NS you defeated is immediately revived with 20% TM, a minor heal, offense up and defense up, but the kicker here is that Daka should then be GAINING 100% TM and have the chant of resurrection cooldown reduced BY TWO.

    Also Asaaj unique will gain TWO stacks the first two times a non-zombie NS teammate is killed.

    So when you kill ANY non-Zombie NS the first two times in a battle, you are giving Asaaj two stacks of boost, giving Daka 100% TM and reducing her heal cooldown by 2, plus all the other stuff I mentioned.
  • Well, its fair but i have to say... refunding daka zeta.... why not just refund zombie gear and drop everyone to no gear on her?

    Path of least resistance and required no change
  • ShaggyB wrote: »
    Well, its fair but i have to say... refunding daka zeta.... why not just refund zombie gear and drop everyone to no gear on her?

    Path of least resistance and required no change

    Because it doesn't fix the problem long term. What are they gonna do when new players end up gearing zombie up because they didn't read the forums first and realize low gear is better? Are they gonna refund Zombie gear every few months?
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Artery wrote: »
    Correct me if I’m wrong please but if ‘paper zombie teams will be unable to solo Nihilus in p4 of the HST’, how will ‘scores improve in p4’?

    by gearing up Zombie of course :wink:

    Nope they won’t improve. If you did good with a paper zombie you’ll do as good or (most likely) a lot worse. Expect your damage to be cut in half due to this and for the ns to still be useless in pvp

    NS are not useless in PVP, they are great in TW and this update makes them tougher, on either Offense or Defense. It seems like most people commenting on this thread completely forget about all the other game modes that you can use NS. With this change the "zombie death cycle" in DSTB most likely won't happen. As with every other change we will need to learn and adapt to new strategies.

    Ok I’m sorry they’ll maintain their usefulness in tw but will not have viability in arena. And they won’t be any better in tw than they were before. This is a nerf plain and simple.

    I disagree, I think they will be a harder team to deal with in TW. I think they will be better in DSTB. I'm sure someone will figure out how to use MT/Zombie in Arena.

    You are missing the bottom line..... People invested in this team solely for the fact that they did good damage in the Sith raid.... The raid predates the announcement that they were going to look at making changes by several months.... People invested in something and they will no longer be getting the same return on their investments..

    Not to mention, the toon will now.need further investment.... as if having to up her gear now.to make her viable isn't enough, there is now a.nrw skill that is going to require purple mats, omegas and credits to use.... It's absolutely ridiculous....

    It's a choice they made, I invested heavily in Reaper and the pilots. Initially Reaper was not as good in ships 2.0. I still think it's a good ship and maxed it again. But at the time a lot of people were upset about that "nerf" It never crossed my mind to demand a refund because I maxed DT/Shore to help the ship. The NS faction is still super helpful in a lot of facets of the game.
  • ShaggyB
    777 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Well, its fair but i have to say... refunding daka zeta.... why not just refund zombie gear and drop everyone to no gear on her?

    Path of least resistance and required no change

    Because it doesn't fix the problem long term. What are they gonna do when new players end up gearing zombie up because they didn't read the forums first and realize low gear is better? Are they gonna refund Zombie gear every few months?

    Sure do it in october. Call it the halloween purge

    In all seriousness. Zombie isnt the easiest toon to get early in the game. Id wager most would find a game changer video or a guild before getting to zombie unlock.


    And they could always embrace it and eliminate higher gears
  • How about changing Zombie's gear so it only awards offensive stats + speed and none of the defensive? That way you don't even have to change his kit and gearing him up still makes him better.

    Then you can just refund the existing gear.
  • ShaggyB
    777 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    RawdSW wrote: »
    How about changing Zombie's gear so it only awards offensive stats + speed and none of the defensive? That way you don't even have to change his kit and gearing him up still makes him better.

    Then you can just refund the existing gear.

    Or that. Then you get investment while maintaining it paper status. Perfect
  • Free to play is the only way, all you lose is time...

    Absolutely. Makes the most sense. Why would you invest time or money into something that will be changed later.
  • There are at least two P4 NS teams that are HSTR viable that don't even have Zombie in them, so unless you're cheesing NS using Paper Zombie you really can't claim that a Zombie change destroys the useability of other NS Toons. 😂
    "The dark side, the light... both have merit. Why not half of each...?" - Harvey "Two-Face" Dent
  • There are at least two P4 NS teams that are HSTR viable that don't even have Zombie in them, so unless you're cheesing NS using Paper Zombie you really can't claim that a Zombie change destroys the useability of other NS Toons. 😂

    Those teams are no longer viable. They got nerfed in previous updates.
  • Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    Not even close! They have been farmed through the extenuating & exhausting grind of this game! Specifically MT any and all rewards are earned! What about the damage that JTR is able to apply, & all of the rewards from her. They nerfed her once already. This is simply not good buisness & every single thing should be returned. Roll them back to Marquee. You don't pull this garbage after a year.
  • Lordih wrote: »
    This rework is one year to Late. It’s Great around one year working on Night sister only for the Sithraid and now this f....... s...! Give back all gear and zetas from all Night sister. Maybe it‘s Time After three years to quit with the Game.

    I agree! CG is overstepping this & has been going on far too often. 6 teams that I know of have been dismantled. Hell, they nerfed Gunaray even
  • Pan2218 wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    Not even close! They have been farmed through the extenuating & exhausting grind of this game! Specifically MT any and all rewards are earned! What about the damage that JTR is able to apply, & all of the rewards from her. They nerfed her once already. This is simply not good buisness & every single thing should be returned. Roll them back to Marquee. You don't pull this garbage after a year.

    the issue with Expose has been known since Finn got his zeta. They updated it and people adapted their strategy and I see plenty of 5-6 million P1 runs. The same thing is going to happen with NS. People will adapt and put up the same damage. It will just require a different strategy.
  • So you're all saying that without the cheese you would never have invested in NS at all, despite this being a completionist game? And you're angry because they restored the completionist aspect to Zombie and made the game what it was supposed to be in the first place?
    "The dark side, the light... both have merit. Why not half of each...?" - Harvey "Two-Face" Dent
  • yohann269 wrote: »
    Pan2218 wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    Not even close! They have been farmed through the extenuating & exhausting grind of this game! Specifically MT any and all rewards are earned! What about the damage that JTR is able to apply, & all of the rewards from her. They nerfed her once already. This is simply not good buisness & every single thing should be returned. Roll them back to Marquee. You don't pull this garbage after a year.

    the issue with Expose has been known since Finn got his zeta. They updated it and people adapted their strategy and I see plenty of 5-6 million P1 runs. The same thing is going to happen with NS. People will adapt and put up the same damage. It will just require a different strategy.

    Yes that may have known that was an issue but didn’t feel it was necessary to fix until the str was launched. And the damage should have been higher saying you can to 5-6 when you did 8-10 is not a consolation it’s a slap in the face.
  • So you're all saying that without the cheese you would never have invested in NS at all, despite this being a completionist game? And you're angry because they restored the completionist aspect to Zombie and made the game what it was supposed to be in the first place?

    So you have a g12 cup? This isn’t a completionist game it’s strategy game and a resource management game. Those resources would have gone to a better faction if we knew months ago when the raid launched that this would happen.
  • If you do not like the changes that are being made, there is an easy fix for this. Find the uninstall app on your phone.
  • IceHawk117
    29 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    You know what I hated most in this game, farming vets. You know why I did it. The Sith Triumvirate Raid. But if RJT lost in STR for the Resistance to return to Meta, I wouldn't complain.Players should get to level up and play factions they like.

    How do we even know yet that this is going to kill NS in STR. This isn't the first weak character strategy abandoned. Before you gear up your zombie or Undying Sacrifice, head over to the NS Discord server.
    Maybe there is a new strategy that leverages the changes.
    Post edited by IceHawk117 on
  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    Those resources would have gone to a better faction if we knew months ago when the raid launched that this would happen.

    Alright then, name a better faction than the new NS that you haven't already worked on.
    "The dark side, the light... both have merit. Why not half of each...?" - Harvey "Two-Face" Dent
  • MmoProNick wrote: »
    On behalf of the NS discord, I must ask, if a zombie with the -100% debuffs has speed up, will she still be able to take a turn?

    She will still be at 0 speed and not take a turn.
  • So you're all saying that without the cheese you would never have invested in NS at all, despite this being a completionist game? And you're angry because they restored the completionist aspect to Zombie and made the game what it was supposed to be in the first place?

    Not everyone plays the game as a completionist.... Some.of us play it as a strategist...

    I can't speak for everyone else, but personally, I am angry that a multi million dollar company can't be bothered to take the time.to.design content that works as intended the first time out of the box and have to nerf it all to protect the integrity of a raid the majority of the player base despises... Which, in turn, causes players to lose their return on investment....

    On top of this, we now.have to further invest in a new ability just to make the same toon almost as good as it was before.....
  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    yohann269 wrote: »
    Pan2218 wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    Not even close! They have been farmed through the extenuating & exhausting grind of this game! Specifically MT any and all rewards are earned! What about the damage that JTR is able to apply, & all of the rewards from her. They nerfed her once already. This is simply not good buisness & every single thing should be returned. Roll them back to Marquee. You don't pull this garbage after a year.

    the issue with Expose has been known since Finn got his zeta. They updated it and people adapted their strategy and I see plenty of 5-6 million P1 runs. The same thing is going to happen with NS. People will adapt and put up the same damage. It will just require a different strategy.

    Yes that may have known that was an issue but didn’t feel it was necessary to fix until the str was launched. And the damage should have been higher saying you can to 5-6 when you did 8-10 is not a consolation it’s a slap in the face.

    the players getting those 8-10 million runs pre Expose changes were replaying a lot. Smithie D said in his video that it took 10 hrs to get his run. the 5-6million runs currently are 1 try. I'm sure with multiple restarts you can get good RNG to get a higher score but to me only doing it once and getting 5 million damage is a great day.
  • Strubz
    424 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Question @CG_TopHat

    EDIT:
    Nevermind.
    Answering questions myself about myself

    Does Daka grant HERSELF turn meter when she is defeated and immediately revived if she is revived by Zombie's new unique? - No. Her TM mechanics specifically state when ANOTHER ALLY is defeated or revived. Shame. Would have made for some really crazy situations.

    Could you please confirm again that the Zombie unique counts as TWO defeats. Per the wording of the ability, the first 2 times another Nightsister ally is defeated by an enemy attack, they are revived, recover 100% of Nightsister Zombie's Max Health and Nightsister Zombie is defeated.

    If you target Daka and defeat her, is she revived BEFORE zombie is defeated and immediately revived? At the same time? How does the TM mechanic of her unique work with the new Zombie unique?

    I'm guessing at the very least if you defeat Daka while still having "charges" for Zombie's unique, Daka would be revived and then immediately gain at least 70% 50% TM because she is being revived and then Zombie is being defeated and then immediately revived. So she is active during the zombie revive.
  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    So you're all saying that without the cheese you would never have invested in NS at all, despite this being a completionist game? And you're angry because they restored the completionist aspect to Zombie and made the game what it was supposed to be in the first place?

    So you have a g12 cup? This isn’t a completionist game it’s strategy game and a resource management game. Those resources would have gone to a better faction if we knew months ago when the raid launched that this would happen.

    I invested in Jawas and Droids for HAAT. Should I know demand a refund because there are better teams now? And you don't know that NS won't be good anymore. I'm sure they will still excel in P4 of STR
  • I don't know why everybody seems to be so up in arms and shocked about this. Demanding refunds and whatever. It's not like we haven't known about it since July...

    pqaoi1tvcybs.jpg

    They didnt say anything about ruining the entire faction & as well when this raid was rolled had told us that NS is the key to beating it. So people have been grinding them for a long damned time. To have them do this. Zombie, papered or not is the key component to unlocking the powerful abilities the Zetas & some Omegas specifically need. This masks them all no matter where you use them. At the same time making her useful. So here it is...NS are no good with Zombie & No good without her. After months. So this is why people are upset. I was one of the **** that trusted CG. I mean they took the Butler page with all of his team references for the the raids & took everything off except FO, JTR, & NS whom they told us to farm. Al anybody saying this & that about being upset should really keep it to themselves. This for feedback & CG has harshly wronged the entire community. They could take that Raid away & many would be much happier in life. Too many times & now this is too large of an investment. Funny how they are saying they protecting just those
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