As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
Imagine if every team that played the New England Patriots just shrieked that it wasn't a fair matchup and refused to play. "OMG they have Belichick I have no chance, this sport is p2w!"
And the current matchmaking fails to do that!
Your Patriots comparison would only be true if Belichick was allowed to ride a motorcycle on the field.
How does it fail?
Also, Belichick is the coach. He's not on the field.
If fails if it matches players where one is predetermined to win and the other is predetermined to lose based on their roster strength.
That's where you are wrong. CG never announced, that they intended to make even matches. They announced, that they would make matches more even than back before championships were introduced - which they are. Significantly more even.
I just had a matchup where it was impossible for me to win (unless my opponent doesn’t play).
I've seen several of that type of match and won. Or check out the match described by OP. It turned out to be a pretty even match in the end.
You are wrong on both.
1) CG announced that the matchmaking would match comparable players which is currently not the case, and
2) I would provide the stats of my typical matchups, but I am honestly too lazy to do so. But I know for fact, that 4MM GP vs 4.4 MM GP can be an unbeatable advantage.
My opponent can set meta teams on defense while still keeping meta teams for offense where I have to decide if I set my few metas in defence and not being able to clear any territories or post weak defenses and lose by points because his metas beat my weak defenses with significantly higher margins.
Don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.
GAC matchmaking is fudging cow excrement and maybe you are lucky and on the upside of it, but that doesn’t mean that there is no problem!
2) I would provide the stats of my typical matchups, but I am honestly too lazy to do so. But I know for fact, that 4MM GP vs 4.4 MM GP can be an unbeatable advantage.
My opponent can set meta teams on defense while still keeping meta teams for offense where I have to decide if I set my few metas in defence and not being able to clear any territories or post weak defenses and lose by points because his metas beat my weak defenses with significantly higher margins.
Don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.
GAC matchmaking is fudging cow excrement and maybe you are lucky and on the upside of it, but that doesn’t mean that there is no problem!
But there’s a problem with what you’re claiming here.
If a 4M v 4.4M matchup is truly unwinnable, it’s not unwinnable because of the additional 400K GP the other player has. You are matched on the GP of your top X toons, which would be 80 in your case. The additional 400K GP the other user has is all obtained from toons beyond their 80th, and I’ll bet they’re using very few if any of them in GAC.
If someone has vastly more meta teams than you but is still being matched with you on top 80 GP, you must have geared up some questionable toons / squads. There is no chance their additional meta squads are drawn from toons below their top 80 GP - as they would not be meta if they were that low.
He recently learnt about top X paradigm all GAC have ran on, on the mega thread. Give him 30-40 posts to adapt his narrative to it, which of course won't change.
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
Imagine if every team that played the New England Patriots just shrieked that it wasn't a fair matchup and refused to play. "OMG they have Belichick I have no chance, this sport is p2w!"
And the current matchmaking fails to do that!
Your Patriots comparison would only be true if Belichick was allowed to ride a motorcycle on the field.
How does it fail?
Also, Belichick is the coach. He's not on the field.
If fails if it matches players where one is predetermined to win and the other is predetermined to lose based on their roster strength.
That's where you are wrong. CG never announced, that they intended to make even matches. They announced, that they would make matches more even than back before championships were introduced - which they are. Significantly more even.
I just had a matchup where it was impossible for me to win (unless my opponent doesn’t play).
I've seen several of that type of match and won. Or check out the match described by OP. It turned out to be a pretty even match in the end.
You are wrong on both.
1) CG announced that the matchmaking would match comparable players which is currently not the case, and
A. What's you definition of "comparable players"? What's CG's definition? It seems like your definitions don't match.
B. Just before the introduction of GAC, CG announced that matches would be more even than during GA - not that they would be completely even. Which announcement are you refering to?
2) I would provide the stats of my typical matchups, but I am honestly too lazy to do so. But I know for fact, that 4MM GP vs 4.4 MM GP can be an unbeatable advantage.
Unbeatable? That depends on so much more than total GP. I've beaten a 4.35 million GP account including Traya and JKR with a 3.86 million GP account with no Revan(s) or Traya earlier this month.
Don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.
Apparently you don't see the whole picture, if you keep staring at those total GP numbers.
GAC matchmaking is fudging cow excrement and maybe you are lucky and on the upside of it, but that doesn’t mean that there is no problem!
If you have problems, why don't you find out how you can improve? Post a link to you profile on swgoh.gg anf I'm sure people will be happy to help.
My personal win rate is unchanged after the introduction of GAC (85% currently). I may be lucky, but I doubt that it's pure luck.
I tried to make a similar point, but the typical response you will get is: well if somebody has better toons / ships then you s/he should win! The just invested their time/money smarter than you.
I think people just don’t understand the concept of “fair matchmaking”
Do you understand the concept that fair matches and even matches are not necessarily the same thing?
I've always heard it as "there's a difference between fair and equal". Fair is subjective, equal is measurable. There's no way to get universal consensus on "fair" and trying to do so is just a waste of everyone's time.
Basically i see no big issue, given that the GAC rewards are still lame, very very very lame + very very very.
Therefore i play GAC for the competition and the fun, if i face a unbeatable team/fleet, i use it as practice to do better next time.
Do i loose? Yes, happened several times. Do i win? Yes also that happened several times. Do i care? Not really, i'm playing to beat my opponent and having fun unleashing my roster, but i don't care about the end result and the "rewards", did i already mention that the GAC rewards are lame?
Therefore yes, Matchmaking can and shall be improved, but there is not much on the line if you loose or win in GAC (except your Ego ;-) ), so just go ahead, you're not loosing very meaningful things, take it easy.
Swiss Garde Officer, drop me a message if you're interested joining
He recently learnt about top X paradigm all GAC have ran on, on the mega thread. Give him 30-40 posts to adapt his narrative to it, which of course won't change.
I just caught up on the other thread.
One of the worst facets of GAC matchmaking is that it can provide windows for the various different types of psyche that exist out there.
There's the paranoid people, that are sure the matchmaking is designed exclusively to harm them and them alone.
There's the eternal pessimist, that look at 15 comparisons between them and their opponent and focus on the 2 metrics where they are at an apparent disadvantage, rather than the 13 metrics where they have the edge. (I saw one of these recently, guy had 2x as many g13 as his opponent but he focused on having fewer g11)
There's the devoid-of-empathy player, who bemoans the fact that they used to crush everyone all the time with the old matchmaking but now that they lose more often, the matchmaking is "unfair".
There's the sore loser. The one who reports everybody who beats them for cheating because they can't comprehend someone being better than them.
There's the egotist. Every victory is due to their superior strategy, every defeat is down to dreadful matchmaking.
There's the cry baby. The one who deliberately short-sets their defence as some sort of protest.
I think the current matchmaking is about right. Yes, there are toons that are much more useful than others at the same gear level. But now we have relics, this should iron itself out. People will relic the more useful toons so that they then have much higher GP than the less useful ones over time.
Some people lose lots of GA matches because they flat out suck at actually playing the game.
In the current GA I scouted an opponent and was convinced I'd beat him easily. Turns out he knows what he's doing and tied my score. Other opponents I've scouted and thought I was up against it, but then they drop battles vs Geos and NS and it was all over.
He recently learnt about top X paradigm all GAC have ran on, on the mega thread. Give him 30-40 posts to adapt his narrative to it, which of course won't change.
I just caught up on the other thread.
One of the worst facets of GAC matchmaking is that it can provide windows for the various different types of psyche that exist out there.
There's the paranoid people, that are sure the matchmaking is designed exclusively to harm them and them alone.
There's the eternal pessimist, that look at 15 comparisons between them and their opponent and focus on the 2 metrics where they are at an apparent disadvantage, rather than the 13 metrics where they have the edge. (I saw one of these recently, guy had 2x as many g13 as his opponent but he focused on having fewer g11)
There's the devoid-of-empathy player, who bemoans the fact that they used to crush everyone all the time with the old matchmaking but now that they lose more often, the matchmaking is "unfair".
There's the sore loser. The one who reports everybody who beats them for cheating because they can't comprehend someone being better than them.
There's the egotist. Every victory is due to their superior strategy, every defeat is down to dreadful matchmaking.
There's the cry baby. The one who deliberately short-sets their defence as some sort of protest.
I think the current matchmaking is about right. Yes, there are toons that are much more useful than others at the same gear level. But now we have relics, this should iron itself out. People will relic the more useful toons so that they then have much higher GP than the less useful ones over time.
Some people lose lots of GA matches because they flat out suck at actually playing the game.
In the current GA I scouted an opponent and was convinced I'd beat him easily. Turns out he knows what he's doing and tied my score. Other opponents I've scouted and thought I was up against it, but then they drop battles vs Geos and NS and it was all over.
I still think the matchmaking isn't as good as it can be, because of the gp tables themselves. Since they can't completely revamp gp which is tied to numerous other plots, they should make one that considers all the parameters seperately within thresholds, instead of almost perfectly matching one total sum.
BUT it's much better than it used to be and passable as is. I'm ok as long as they adapt it to the current and future templates they use on the field types.
I tried to make a similar point, but the typical response you will get is: well if somebody has better toons / ships then you s/he should win! The just invested their time/money smarter than you.
I think people just don’t understand the concept of “fair matchmaking”
Do you understand the concept that fair matches and even matches are not necessarily the same thing?
I've always heard it as "there's a difference between fair and equal". Fair is subjective, equal is measurable. There's no way to get universal consensus on "fair" and trying to do so is just a waste of everyone's time.
So, you agree with me. How wonderful :-)
Maybe, but unlikely. I'm not sure we have either right now but I'm also not sure there's a way to get to either. MM is always picking winners and losers in some form or fashion.
The biggest problem with GAC and with the game is that CG has let RNG be the sole factor in determining more and more of everything with the game and who wins.
Your mods suck? Well that's just RNG. You lose a mirror match? Well that's just RNG. You destroy the opponent in one match and then lose the next 5 times in a row? Well that's just RNG. Get matched against someone who has a roster with 100+ mods with over 20+ speed to your 11? Well that's just RNG!
Skill, planning, tactics, using the right counter continue to get more and more overshadowed by RNG. How does CG respond? They add in more RNG! They add in more complexity. They make the game even more buggy and sluggish because of all the complexity in the game that causes it to freeze, slow down, get stuck, etc. (And good luck getting a worthwhile response if you LOSE because the game froze up and ate your team.)
My fastest mod set is on my Fallen Bastila and that's 133 speed total. My Darth Revan is my fastest character at 302. Meanwhile, I'm facing opponents in GAC that have DR, HK, FB, Malak at 310+ speed. Utter bull-rubbish. I've been farming speed mods DAILY for 18 months and have 11 freakin' mods with 20+ secondary speed. Three of those are at 20 because I took them to 6E. My opponents have 5 20+ speed mods for each member of their **** DR team that I can't compete against. (I've farmed THOUSANDS of mods and have 11 that are 20+ speed. Three of those I had before I started farming them hardcore every day, at least 5 if not 10-15.)
Same goes for fleets. Negotiator has more RNG to it than any other type of fleet as well. (It also seems to me that my Han's Falcon doesn't assist as much against negotiator fleets as it does against other fleets.)
Will CG do anything about that? Nope. They make money off frustration purchases because of the RNG factor upsetting players and getting them to want to spend more money to be able to get past the RNG.
RNG takes no skill, no planning, no strategy and CG will continue to enjoy that because it's also easier for them to implement RNG than anything that takes skill.
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
Imagine if every team that played the New England Patriots just shrieked that it wasn't a fair matchup and refused to play. "OMG they have Belichick I have no chance, this sport is p2w!"
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
If your opponent's top-20 characters have higher GP than your top-20, then I assume that your rank 60-80 characters have higher GP than your opponent's rank 60-80 characters. 20 characters don't win a match alone. Yes, your opponent has GAS, but he has earned that advantage by farming/Gearing for the event. Let him benefit, if he also geared / starred him up. Building a strong roster (of similar relevant GP) should earn you at least some advantage.
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
No, everything is working perfectly as intended.
I got matched again with 7 players that all have significantly higher GP and better toons overall.
My current opponent has a relic 6 Malak.
So there goes that match. There is no means or strategy that allows me to beat this guy. And he has more than 10% GP than me. So the rest of his toons are Trinker than mine too.
Don’t tell me this is just one incident. Especially since this is the third group GAC matchup where I am at the bottom!!!
I don’t care if I get banned for writing this, but THIS MATCHMAKING IS **** ****!!!!
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
My current opponent has a relic 6 Malak.
So there goes that match. There is no means or strategy that allows me to beat this guy.
If you face characters that cause you trouble so often, why don't you start working on a team to take them down?
There is not a single team without a proper, non-mirror counter, at least not at the moment.
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
My current opponent has a relic 6 Malak.
So there goes that match. There is no means or strategy that allows me to beat this guy.
If you face characters that cause you trouble so often, why don't you start working on a team to take them down?
There is not a single team without a proper, non-mirror counter, at least not at the moment.
I have a nuke team with a relic 5 GG, but there is only so much you can do with available resources.
And this goes back to the point I am making her over and over again...
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
If your opponent's top-20 characters have higher GP than your top-20, then I assume that your rank 60-80 characters have higher GP than your opponent's rank 60-80 characters.
Nope - sorry, you know what assuming does. They're not. In fact, he has relic characters outside of his top 40. Mine are all in my top 20. His roster is stronger. 1-20, 20-40 and 40-80. Can I win? Sure. Would I consider him "in the same ball park"? Not at all. But it is what it is. While I think the matchmaking is generally better than it used to be, it still has its flaws. GP is a poor measure of a units combat effectiveness. Any algorithm that leans heavily on GP (be it top 20, top 60, top 80 or even total) is going to have flaws.
I'm all for defending CG when things warrant it - and they do more often than people think. But GAC matchmaking is far from perfected and still needs work. Especially in terms of accounting for relics. If someone has a 23 to 9 relic advantage, that indicates to me that relics (and g13, still) are not accurately reflected in GP.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
As always, "matchmaking" does not mean "you will only face rosters identical to your own." It just matches based on top 80 GP. It is not the matchmaking algorithm's job to ensure your matches are "fair." It's just there to ensure you are facing people in the same ballpark of general roster strength.
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
If your opponent's top-20 characters have higher GP than your top-20, then I assume that your rank 60-80 characters have higher GP than your opponent's rank 60-80 characters.
Nope - sorry, you know what assuming does. They're not. In fact, he has relic characters outside of his top 40. Mine are all in my top 20. His roster is stronger. 1-20, 20-40 and 40-80. Can I win? Sure. Would I consider him "in the same ball park"? Not at all. But it is what it is. While I think the matchmaking is generally better than it used to be, it still has its flaws. GP is a poor measure of a units combat effectiveness. Any algorithm that leans heavily on GP (be it top 20, top 60, top 80 or even total) is going to have flaws.
I'm all for defending CG when things warrant it - and they do more often than people think. But GAC matchmaking is far from perfected and still needs work. Especially in terms of accounting for relics. If someone has a 23 to 9 relic advantage, that indicates to me that relics (and g13, still) are not accurately reflected in GP.
Yep. I keep facing opponents with full Relic 5-7 DR Malak teams. Even using 3 and 4 teams to try to take it down is unsuccessful. Along with that the fact so many opponents have 300+ speed DR, Bastila, Malak, and my chances are even worse. All my opponents need to do is place their DR Malak team on defense and that's that. I have one relic 5 character, (Darth Revan) and that's it.
Relics definitely need to account for much more in matchmaking than they do now. (As in, if you have multiple relic 5-7 TEAMS, you shouldn't be facing opponents who have a handful of relic'd characters.)
Doubtful CG will change it though since that very thing leads to "frustration purchases" and they make money from people buying improvements for characters. (Whale Harder!)
"I farm speed mods every day" is a meaningless statement.
How many refreshes?
Not necessarily meaningless to the guy who still farms the nodes on mods table for generating extra income and ability materials in the process... might be a very detrimental plan but meh XD
Also thought I'd leave my 2 cents here... (pick 'em up metaphorically if you want since I have pennies not cents) but honestly I think the fact that these meta teams exist so heavily is a problem in itself, of course it's how money is made for these apps and there will always be abilities or combinations that are situationally more powerful and viable.
My point being it is pretty unfair that you can't have any 10 toons geared up or even 20 to the same level and gp as a meta team and not eventually wear that team down especially since you get less points for subsequent attacks. 60 to 80 toons almost never need actual use (as in the 60 to 80 part of the ones measured for GP), the fact that teams can exist and just wipe the floor minimal effort with 4 teams unscathed with no strategy is kind of dumbfounding. If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
I say this being one of the people who wins alot of battles simply putting my geonosian bug bois down on front row and some seriously underleveled and geared jawas behkind since they are almost never needed and the chances of getting there are slim. I find most players still underestimate GBA and while there's alot of tactics with attacking there's virtually very little at times in defense. In fact with some meta teams to focus on you can actually be screwed with no counters to an opponent meta team at times.
There was a time a while back that nothing I had could prevent the cancer that is NS despite having geared some very relevant toons to me for other stuff that can hold their own, for example rogue one which yes isn't the best was back then for me at the lower GP fights a fairly solid defense but you try and take on the never dead nightsisters with them or a fair few other teams that aren't geared quite enough or not counter meta enough you are screwed.
"I farm speed mods every day" is a meaningless statement.
How many refreshes?
Not necessarily meaningless to the guy who still farms the nodes on mods table for generating extra income and ability materials in the process... might be a very detrimental plan but meh XD
I wasn't quite clear what you meant but just in case you are saying what i sounds like. Mods farmed from the "Mod Battles" table that has the 9 tiers to it can only be max 2* mods. Mods Farmed from the "Mod Challenges" table where you have a 3 tier challenge for each mod type can reward you 4* and 5* mods (in tier 3).
To all intent and purpose almost any mod that isn't 5* is completely and utterly worthless and should be sold for credits (I've kept a few 4*, 15+ speed secondary mods from before mods 2.0). The primary stats on them are Significantly lower than the 5* mods and the secondary stats have much smaller increases too. Also, you can't slice mods that are less than 5*.
If you are farming the Mod Battles table for things like ability mats and credits I'd just point out that those rewards are also available on the Mod Challenge table.
Lastly, the number of refreshes is a relevant question as more refreshes = more mods = more chance of getting a mod that's worth anything.
If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
The tactics comes from the place you set then and the way you mod them. Placing certain teams if you have them is a no-brainer, yet setting them up to shut down typical counters is more about skill.
For instance, you can mod Geos to give Traya a hard time and the very least steal several banners if not a first time victory. You can mod your NS in a way in which attacking them with anything below Padmé's power level is a gamble. In this case, it starts turning into skill/strategy.
If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
The tactics comes from the place you set then and the way you mod them. Placing certain teams if you have them is a no-brainer, yet setting them up to shut down typical counters is more about skill.
For instance, you can mod Geos to give Traya a hard time and the very least steal several banners if not a first time victory. You can mod your NS in a way in which attacking them with anything below Padmé's power level is a gamble. In this case, it starts turning into skill/strategy.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not strategy. This is simply outspending your opponent (with money and or time invested)
True strategy would be selecting toons that are able to counter the opponent’s toons and/or anticipating your opponents moves based on analysis of their roster.
Additionally this “strategy” only works if you are matched against a comparable player. And - at least for me - this has not happened for the last 3 GAC matchups.
If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
The tactics comes from the place you set then and the way you mod them. Placing certain teams if you have them is a no-brainer, yet setting them up to shut down typical counters is more about skill.
For instance, you can mod Geos to give Traya a hard time and the very least steal several banners if not a first time victory. You can mod your NS in a way in which attacking them with anything below Padmé's power level is a gamble. In this case, it starts turning into skill/strategy.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not strategy. This is simply outspending your opponent (with money and or time invested)
Is it, now? You can beat pretty much any opponent that does not have over two times your mod inventory if you just know where to place them.
Of course, as long as you pick gearing your favourite heroes over some no-name characters (which have more use), it's not going to work. But blaming every loss on being outmatched or outspent is starting to get an outdated excuse.
If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
The tactics comes from the place you set then and the way you mod them. Placing certain teams if you have them is a no-brainer, yet setting them up to shut down typical counters is more about skill.
For instance, you can mod Geos to give Traya a hard time and the very least steal several banners if not a first time victory. You can mod your NS in a way in which attacking them with anything below Padmé's power level is a gamble. In this case, it starts turning into skill/strategy.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not strategy. This is simply outspending your opponent (with money and or time invested)
Is it, now? You can beat pretty much any opponent that does not have over two times your mod inventory if you just know where to place them.
Of course, as long as you pick gearing your favourite heroes over some no-name characters (which have more use), it's not going to work. But blaming every loss on being outmatched or outspent is starting to get an outdated excuse.
Except you forget that getting mods is pure RNG therefore no strategy involved here.
Getting mods is absolutely under your control and where the failure lies for people with bad mods.
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You are wrong on both.
1) CG announced that the matchmaking would match comparable players which is currently not the case, and
2) I would provide the stats of my typical matchups, but I am honestly too lazy to do so. But I know for fact, that 4MM GP vs 4.4 MM GP can be an unbeatable advantage.
My opponent can set meta teams on defense while still keeping meta teams for offense where I have to decide if I set my few metas in defence and not being able to clear any territories or post weak defenses and lose by points because his metas beat my weak defenses with significantly higher margins.
Don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.
GAC matchmaking is fudging cow excrement and maybe you are lucky and on the upside of it, but that doesn’t mean that there is no problem!
If a 4M v 4.4M matchup is truly unwinnable, it’s not unwinnable because of the additional 400K GP the other player has. You are matched on the GP of your top X toons, which would be 80 in your case. The additional 400K GP the other user has is all obtained from toons beyond their 80th, and I’ll bet they’re using very few if any of them in GAC.
If someone has vastly more meta teams than you but is still being matched with you on top 80 GP, you must have geared up some questionable toons / squads. There is no chance their additional meta squads are drawn from toons below their top 80 GP - as they would not be meta if they were that low.
A. What's you definition of "comparable players"? What's CG's definition? It seems like your definitions don't match.
B. Just before the introduction of GAC, CG announced that matches would be more even than during GA - not that they would be completely even. Which announcement are you refering to?
Unbeatable? That depends on so much more than total GP. I've beaten a 4.35 million GP account including Traya and JKR with a 3.86 million GP account with no Revan(s) or Traya earlier this month.
Apparently you don't see the whole picture, if you keep staring at those total GP numbers.
If you have problems, why don't you find out how you can improve? Post a link to you profile on swgoh.gg anf I'm sure people will be happy to help.
My personal win rate is unchanged after the introduction of GAC (85% currently). I may be lucky, but I doubt that it's pure luck.
So, you agree with me. How wonderful :-)
Therefore i play GAC for the competition and the fun, if i face a unbeatable team/fleet, i use it as practice to do better next time.
Do i loose? Yes, happened several times. Do i win? Yes also that happened several times. Do i care? Not really, i'm playing to beat my opponent and having fun unleashing my roster, but i don't care about the end result and the "rewards", did i already mention that the GAC rewards are lame?
Therefore yes, Matchmaking can and shall be improved, but there is not much on the line if you loose or win in GAC (except your Ego ;-) ), so just go ahead, you're not loosing very meaningful things, take it easy.
I just caught up on the other thread.
One of the worst facets of GAC matchmaking is that it can provide windows for the various different types of psyche that exist out there.
There's the paranoid people, that are sure the matchmaking is designed exclusively to harm them and them alone.
There's the eternal pessimist, that look at 15 comparisons between them and their opponent and focus on the 2 metrics where they are at an apparent disadvantage, rather than the 13 metrics where they have the edge. (I saw one of these recently, guy had 2x as many g13 as his opponent but he focused on having fewer g11)
There's the devoid-of-empathy player, who bemoans the fact that they used to crush everyone all the time with the old matchmaking but now that they lose more often, the matchmaking is "unfair".
There's the sore loser. The one who reports everybody who beats them for cheating because they can't comprehend someone being better than them.
There's the egotist. Every victory is due to their superior strategy, every defeat is down to dreadful matchmaking.
There's the cry baby. The one who deliberately short-sets their defence as some sort of protest.
I think the current matchmaking is about right. Yes, there are toons that are much more useful than others at the same gear level. But now we have relics, this should iron itself out. People will relic the more useful toons so that they then have much higher GP than the less useful ones over time.
Some people lose lots of GA matches because they flat out suck at actually playing the game.
In the current GA I scouted an opponent and was convinced I'd beat him easily. Turns out he knows what he's doing and tied my score. Other opponents I've scouted and thought I was up against it, but then they drop battles vs Geos and NS and it was all over.
I still think the matchmaking isn't as good as it can be, because of the gp tables themselves. Since they can't completely revamp gp which is tied to numerous other plots, they should make one that considers all the parameters seperately within thresholds, instead of almost perfectly matching one total sum.
BUT it's much better than it used to be and passable as is. I'm ok as long as they adapt it to the current and future templates they use on the field types.
Maybe, but unlikely. I'm not sure we have either right now but I'm also not sure there's a way to get to either. MM is always picking winners and losers in some form or fashion.
Your mods suck? Well that's just RNG. You lose a mirror match? Well that's just RNG. You destroy the opponent in one match and then lose the next 5 times in a row? Well that's just RNG. Get matched against someone who has a roster with 100+ mods with over 20+ speed to your 11? Well that's just RNG!
Skill, planning, tactics, using the right counter continue to get more and more overshadowed by RNG. How does CG respond? They add in more RNG! They add in more complexity. They make the game even more buggy and sluggish because of all the complexity in the game that causes it to freeze, slow down, get stuck, etc. (And good luck getting a worthwhile response if you LOSE because the game froze up and ate your team.)
My fastest mod set is on my Fallen Bastila and that's 133 speed total. My Darth Revan is my fastest character at 302. Meanwhile, I'm facing opponents in GAC that have DR, HK, FB, Malak at 310+ speed. Utter bull-rubbish. I've been farming speed mods DAILY for 18 months and have 11 freakin' mods with 20+ secondary speed. Three of those are at 20 because I took them to 6E. My opponents have 5 20+ speed mods for each member of their **** DR team that I can't compete against. (I've farmed THOUSANDS of mods and have 11 that are 20+ speed. Three of those I had before I started farming them hardcore every day, at least 5 if not 10-15.)
Same goes for fleets. Negotiator has more RNG to it than any other type of fleet as well. (It also seems to me that my Han's Falcon doesn't assist as much against negotiator fleets as it does against other fleets.)
Will CG do anything about that? Nope. They make money off frustration purchases because of the RNG factor upsetting players and getting them to want to spend more money to be able to get past the RNG.
RNG takes no skill, no planning, no strategy and CG will continue to enjoy that because it's also easier for them to implement RNG than anything that takes skill.
Or nothing else better to spend their money on, like family, mortgage, car etc. You know stuff like that.
You mean deflate to win?
While I generally agree, this GAC I am facing a guy with 23 relic toons....compared to my 9. Now, he does have GAS as well, but I could overcome that if the rest of the top end of the rosters weren't so incredibly in his favor. Something still seems "off" - as relics were supposed to be reflected in top end GP - but 23 to 9 seems to indicate that that is not the case.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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If your opponent's top-20 characters have higher GP than your top-20, then I assume that your rank 60-80 characters have higher GP than your opponent's rank 60-80 characters. 20 characters don't win a match alone. Yes, your opponent has GAS, but he has earned that advantage by farming/Gearing for the event. Let him benefit, if he also geared / starred him up. Building a strong roster (of similar relevant GP) should earn you at least some advantage.
No, everything is working perfectly as intended.
I got matched again with 7 players that all have significantly higher GP and better toons overall.
My current opponent has a relic 6 Malak.
So there goes that match. There is no means or strategy that allows me to beat this guy. And he has more than 10% GP than me. So the rest of his toons are Trinker than mine too.
Don’t tell me this is just one incident. Especially since this is the third group GAC matchup where I am at the bottom!!!
I don’t care if I get banned for writing this, but THIS MATCHMAKING IS **** ****!!!!
There is not a single team without a proper, non-mirror counter, at least not at the moment.
I have a nuke team with a relic 5 GG, but there is only so much you can do with available resources.
And this goes back to the point I am making her over and over again...
Nope - sorry, you know what assuming does. They're not. In fact, he has relic characters outside of his top 40. Mine are all in my top 20. His roster is stronger. 1-20, 20-40 and 40-80. Can I win? Sure. Would I consider him "in the same ball park"? Not at all. But it is what it is. While I think the matchmaking is generally better than it used to be, it still has its flaws. GP is a poor measure of a units combat effectiveness. Any algorithm that leans heavily on GP (be it top 20, top 60, top 80 or even total) is going to have flaws.
I'm all for defending CG when things warrant it - and they do more often than people think. But GAC matchmaking is far from perfected and still needs work. Especially in terms of accounting for relics. If someone has a 23 to 9 relic advantage, that indicates to me that relics (and g13, still) are not accurately reflected in GP.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Yep. I keep facing opponents with full Relic 5-7 DR Malak teams. Even using 3 and 4 teams to try to take it down is unsuccessful. Along with that the fact so many opponents have 300+ speed DR, Bastila, Malak, and my chances are even worse. All my opponents need to do is place their DR Malak team on defense and that's that. I have one relic 5 character, (Darth Revan) and that's it.
Relics definitely need to account for much more in matchmaking than they do now. (As in, if you have multiple relic 5-7 TEAMS, you shouldn't be facing opponents who have a handful of relic'd characters.)
Doubtful CG will change it though since that very thing leads to "frustration purchases" and they make money from people buying improvements for characters. (Whale Harder!)
How many refreshes?
Not necessarily meaningless to the guy who still farms the nodes on mods table for generating extra income and ability materials in the process... might be a very detrimental plan but meh XD
My point being it is pretty unfair that you can't have any 10 toons geared up or even 20 to the same level and gp as a meta team and not eventually wear that team down especially since you get less points for subsequent attacks. 60 to 80 toons almost never need actual use (as in the 60 to 80 part of the ones measured for GP), the fact that teams can exist and just wipe the floor minimal effort with 4 teams unscathed with no strategy is kind of dumbfounding. If you put NS or Geo squads on defense you have planned to an extent sure and you made sure they have support toons by default and strong chemistry and even strong overall. But could you really look yourself in the mirror and say that took any form of ingenuity or skill or tactics.
I say this being one of the people who wins alot of battles simply putting my geonosian bug bois down on front row and some seriously underleveled and geared jawas behkind since they are almost never needed and the chances of getting there are slim. I find most players still underestimate GBA and while there's alot of tactics with attacking there's virtually very little at times in defense. In fact with some meta teams to focus on you can actually be screwed with no counters to an opponent meta team at times.
There was a time a while back that nothing I had could prevent the cancer that is NS despite having geared some very relevant toons to me for other stuff that can hold their own, for example rogue one which yes isn't the best was back then for me at the lower GP fights a fairly solid defense but you try and take on the never dead nightsisters with them or a fair few other teams that aren't geared quite enough or not counter meta enough you are screwed.
I wasn't quite clear what you meant but just in case you are saying what i sounds like. Mods farmed from the "Mod Battles" table that has the 9 tiers to it can only be max 2* mods. Mods Farmed from the "Mod Challenges" table where you have a 3 tier challenge for each mod type can reward you 4* and 5* mods (in tier 3).
To all intent and purpose almost any mod that isn't 5* is completely and utterly worthless and should be sold for credits (I've kept a few 4*, 15+ speed secondary mods from before mods 2.0). The primary stats on them are Significantly lower than the 5* mods and the secondary stats have much smaller increases too. Also, you can't slice mods that are less than 5*.
If you are farming the Mod Battles table for things like ability mats and credits I'd just point out that those rewards are also available on the Mod Challenge table.
Lastly, the number of refreshes is a relevant question as more refreshes = more mods = more chance of getting a mod that's worth anything.
Sorry if I read what you said wrong though.
For instance, you can mod Geos to give Traya a hard time and the very least steal several banners if not a first time victory. You can mod your NS in a way in which attacking them with anything below Padmé's power level is a gamble. In this case, it starts turning into skill/strategy.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not strategy. This is simply outspending your opponent (with money and or time invested)
True strategy would be selecting toons that are able to counter the opponent’s toons and/or anticipating your opponents moves based on analysis of their roster.
Additionally this “strategy” only works if you are matched against a comparable player. And - at least for me - this has not happened for the last 3 GAC matchups.
Of course, as long as you pick gearing your favourite heroes over some no-name characters (which have more use), it's not going to work. But blaming every loss on being outmatched or outspent is starting to get an outdated excuse.
Getting mods is absolutely under your control and where the failure lies for people with bad mods.