These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
It does seem to be a difference. JML and SEE seem to be just keeping their head above water in the faction they were built for. (More SEE than JML) I don’t see how they could do well outside of those factions, whereas Rey and SLKR are far more viable plugging in a wider variety of different things.
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
i kinda dont get any of your arguing in here
there are 2 important characters that people should get to maximize their ressource income
slkr and jkl
everything else is completely unneeded
with slk you get your easy arena climbs, your additional ds geo tb team for p4 and an easy hsr solo
with jkl you get (for a relatively low investment) the biggest boost in ls geo tb
having rey, palp, or jml is just random stuff if you can/want to afford it
getting them also pushes your gac gp so there is no real gain (besides facing those rare opponents that have like 1 gl less but useless stuff reliced bloating their gp)
so whenever your ressources are limited, those slkr and jkl are the 2 characters to get to maximize your ressource income
so trying to "promote" other gls if people dont have slkr and jkl is just bad advise and thats not a personal oppinion but a fact
of course people can get whatever they want if they are a fan of any of those gls or pay/farm everything together
but it would still be a bad decision if you try to min/max your rewards
so in that regard those gls are nowhere near even
and just because more new gls pop up in arena shards doesnt say a single word about usefulness
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
i kinda dont get any of your arguing in here
there are 2 important characters that people should get to maximize their ressource income
slkr and jkl
everything else is completely unneeded
with slk you get your easy arena climbs, your additional ds geo tb team for p4 and an easy hsr solo
with jkl you get (for a relatively low investment) the biggest boost in ls geo tb
having rey, palp, or jml is just random stuff if you can/want to afford it
getting them also pushes your gac gp so there is no real gain (besides facing those rare opponents that have like 1 gl less but useless stuff reliced bloating their gp)
so whenever your ressources are limited, those slkr and jkl are the 2 characters to get to maximize your ressource income
so trying to "promote" other gls if people dont have slkr and jkl is just bad advise and thats not a personal oppinion but a fact
of course people can get whatever they want if they are a fan of any of those gls or pay/farm everything together
but it would still be a bad decision if you try to min/max your rewards
so in that regard those gls are nowhere near even
and just because more new gls pop up in arena shards doesnt say a single word about usefulness
The point is there are middle ground people who have been working towards SEE. It has consumed a metric ton of resources. It wpuld be absolutely frustrating if he cant hold any value and then another meta drops. I currently have SLKR. I have been working towards SEE since announcement. If something else dropped like 2 more GLs at Rey/Kylos level SEE would be in a god awful plac le. JML isnt great in terms of the formers, but in groups he can still absoluty decimate, along with the bastilla lead wat comp that is just cancer.
SEE is in a bad place, as are the people that busted **** to get him as a second GL vs the alternatives.
But the real problem is team synergy. I feel like the Jedis just have that going on better. Sure Kylo is a beast but his team is literally there to feed him ult for a turn or 2 if theyre lucky. Jedis just feel like there is more team effort if every team.
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
i kinda dont get any of your arguing in here
there are 2 important characters that people should get to maximize their ressource income
slkr and jkl
everything else is completely unneeded
with slk you get your easy arena climbs, your additional ds geo tb team for p4 and an easy hsr solo
with jkl you get (for a relatively low investment) the biggest boost in ls geo tb
having rey, palp, or jml is just random stuff if you can/want to afford it
getting them also pushes your gac gp so there is no real gain (besides facing those rare opponents that have like 1 gl less but useless stuff reliced bloating their gp)
so whenever your ressources are limited, those slkr and jkl are the 2 characters to get to maximize your ressource income
so trying to "promote" other gls if people dont have slkr and jkl is just bad advise and thats not a personal oppinion but a fact
of course people can get whatever they want if they are a fan of any of those gls or pay/farm everything together
but it would still be a bad decision if you try to min/max your rewards
so in that regard those gls are nowhere near even
and just because more new gls pop up in arena shards doesnt say a single word about usefulness
The point is there are middle ground people who have been working towards SEE. It has consumed a metric ton of resources. It wpuld be absolutely frustrating if he cant hold any value and then another meta drops. I currently have SLKR. I have been working towards SEE since announcement. If something else dropped like 2 more GLs at Rey/Kylos level SEE would be in a god awful plac le. JML isnt great in terms of the formers, but in groups he can still absoluty decimate, along with the bastilla lead wat comp that is just cancer.
SEE is in a bad place, as are the people that busted **** to get him as a second GL vs the alternatives.
But the real problem is team synergy. I feel like the Jedis just have that going on better. Sure Kylo is a beast but his team is literally there to feed him ult for a turn or 2 if theyre lucky. Jedis just feel like there is more team effort if every team.
there is no real middle ground
if you have slkr but not jkl then you are not after the "required" point
if you have both and wanna take a 2. gl you take the one that suits your interest best
which obv is not arena if you already have slkr
so you pick the one that helps you make a specific part of your game better (geo tb / tw / gac)
there is basically no reason to be disapointed in arena performance from palp because you already have a good to go team for that
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements. For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
Kyno could you clarify this?
This part:
These toons are meant to be powerful, but faction specific improvements.
conflicts with the stated intention that GLs be useful in many different squads involving many different factions. It also conflicts with how Rey, especially, is used, but SLKR as well frequently uses Malak.
Are you trying to say that CG has changed their philosophy on making GL's relevant to a wide range of squad/faction combinations an "these toons" only means JML & SEE? Is there some retraction of the statements CG made with reference to Rey & SLKR about making them useful with a wide range of toons & factions? If true, I missed it.
And this bit:
For general improvements and helping to push each particular one.
is a sentence fragment, which wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense in any case, but is particularly confusing in that last word: "one" what?
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
i kinda dont get any of your arguing in here
there are 2 important characters that people should get to maximize their ressource income
slkr and jkl
everything else is completely unneeded
with slk you get your easy arena climbs, your additional ds geo tb team for p4 and an easy hsr solo
with jkl you get (for a relatively low investment) the biggest boost in ls geo tb
having rey, palp, or jml is just random stuff if you can/want to afford it
getting them also pushes your gac gp so there is no real gain (besides facing those rare opponents that have like 1 gl less but useless stuff reliced bloating their gp)
so whenever your ressources are limited, those slkr and jkl are the 2 characters to get to maximize your ressource income
so trying to "promote" other gls if people dont have slkr and jkl is just bad advise and thats not a personal oppinion but a fact
of course people can get whatever they want if they are a fan of any of those gls or pay/farm everything together
but it would still be a bad decision if you try to min/max your rewards
so in that regard those gls are nowhere near even
and just because more new gls pop up in arena shards doesnt say a single word about usefulness
The point is there are middle ground people who have been working towards SEE. It has consumed a metric ton of resources. It wpuld be absolutely frustrating if he cant hold any value and then another meta drops. I currently have SLKR. I have been working towards SEE since announcement. If something else dropped like 2 more GLs at Rey/Kylos level SEE would be in a god awful plac le. JML isnt great in terms of the formers, but in groups he can still absoluty decimate, along with the bastilla lead wat comp that is just cancer.
SEE is in a bad place, as are the people that busted **** to get him as a second GL vs the alternatives.
But the real problem is team synergy. I feel like the Jedis just have that going on better. Sure Kylo is a beast but his team is literally there to feed him ult for a turn or 2 if theyre lucky. Jedis just feel like there is more team effort if every team.
It’s almost as if when they said these new GL’s would be similar in power to the first GLs they meant it. Normally I think new shinies should be more powerful but this was a stated exception. Why get new GL’s instead of just the ones you have? Bc they are still way more powerful and better than non-GL’s. Seems simple enough to me
Kits for GLs are too complex for accurate power estimates. As long as CG says that the next GLs will be "about the same power level" as GLs I already have, the smart move will actually be to pass on everything for a month or two, horde gear if you want to, gear up other cool new toons (like Mando, etc.) if you want to.
Picking a GL in advance of good performance data in a variety of game modes is just asking to spend you days crying on the forums about how you've been cheated.
It's a bold move, from CG, to make rushing the new, high-resource toons into a risky and frequently unproductive endeavor. Let's see if that pays off for them.
What’s going to happen is you will see the numbers for SEE slow down because all the people that rush investing into him will finish him.
But no new numbers after that.
Jml rey and especially slkr will continue to climb.
SEE will be this fossil of a character that nobody will ever go for until they got the other 3 and by then more will come out.
Maybe SEE is the meta character for those new future GLs.
Well I’m ready !! 😒
It’s almost as if when they said these new GL’s would be similar in power to the first GLs they meant it. Normally I think new shinies should be more powerful but this was a stated exception. Why get new GL’s instead of just the ones you have? Bc they are still way more powerful and better than non-GL’s. Seems simple enough to me
I think this is the crux of it, everyone assumed similar in power meant "slightly better" which would make sense given 7 months since the old ones dropped and would refresh arena and PVP modes.
Turns out they are slightly worse. They are still powerful but just farm SLKR and keep him and that's all you need for a long while.
It’s almost as if when they said these new GL’s would be similar in power to the first GLs they meant it. Normally I think new shinies should be more powerful but this was a stated exception. Why get new GL’s instead of just the ones you have? Bc they are still way more powerful and better than non-GL’s. Seems simple enough to me
I think this is the crux of it, everyone assumed similar in power meant "slightly better" which would make sense given 7 months since the old ones dropped and would refresh arena and PVP modes.
Turns out they are slightly worse. They are still powerful but just farm SLKR and keep him and that's all you need for a long while.
All the GLs (except SEE) can beat SLKR, I think. But what makes SLKR so amazing is his multitude of uses. He is S tier in every type of game mode, including PvE. In PvE I would say he's even SSS tier. I mean come on he can solo the sith raid lol
All the GLs (except SEE) can beat SLKR, I think. But what makes SLKR so amazing is his multitude of uses. He is S tier in every type of game mode, including PvE. In PvE I would say he's even SSS tier. I mean come on he can solo the sith raid lol
Meh I don't want and won't get SLKR. there's other squads that can do very well in sith raid and once we can sim that raid his value shrinks massively as that's the only thing he does that the others don't do.
What’s going to happen is you will see the numbers for SEE slow down because all the people that rush investing into him will finish him.
But no new numbers after that.
Jml rey and especially slkr will continue to climb.
SEE will be this fossil of a character that nobody will ever go for until they got the other 3 and by then more will come out.
Maybe SEE is the meta character for those new future GLs.
Well I’m ready !! 😒
yeah, SEE is definitely the least appealing of the bunch
In terms of relevancy, i doubt he will have much place as he is, when new sith toons come out because he doesn't really do anything amazing for the Sith faction, and whoever the new quality Sith toons will be, I feel like they'll be more self-contained and will be better under their own lead and faction if Trio, Sith Empire is any indication
once we can sim that raid his value shrinks massively as that's the only thing he does that the others don't do.
Okay, let's say that's correct. When do you think that raid is going to be simmable? Because we've been told recently by CG that they're willing to think about letting us sim HAAT, but they aren't even **thinking** about a simmable HSTR.
Given that they aren't willing to think about it yet, I am sure it's a good year off, maybe more. Maybe a lot more.
So if I go all in on SLKR & get him in whatever is the average amount of time (4 months? 5?), that means I get at least 7 months of enhanced HSTR rewards. That's enough to make back a lot of what I spent on the required toons. If I get in 9-12 months of enhanced HSTR rewards, that probably pays back everything I spent on required toons - and I'm not talking compared to no raids, I'm talking about compared to doing the raids without SLKR.
At minimum I make back more than 1/2 of what I spend. There's a good chance I make back all of what spend and more.
So, yes, it's temporary, but if temporary means "less than 3 years" it might as well be permanent. So your observation only becomes relevant ...when? A year from now? 2? More?
The HSTR advantage remains a huge advantage that (absent some specific goal that's not about maximizing success in game) should make SLKR everyone's first GL until at least after CG publicly announces that they're thinking about making HSTR simmable.
once we can sim that raid his value shrinks massively as that's the only thing he does that the others don't do.
Okay, let's say that's correct. When do you think that raid is going to be simmable? Because we've been told recently by CG that they're willing to think about letting us sim HAAT, but they aren't even **thinking** about a simmable HSTR.
Given that they aren't willing to think about it yet, I am sure it's a good year off, maybe more. Maybe a lot more.
So if I go all in on SLKR & get him in whatever is the average amount of time (4 months? 5?), that means I get at least 7 months of enhanced HSTR rewards. That's enough to make back a lot of what I spent on the required toons. If I get in 9-12 months of enhanced HSTR rewards, that probably pays back everything I spent on required toons - and I'm not talking compared to no raids, I'm talking about compared to doing the raids without SLKR.
At minimum I make back more than 1/2 of what I spend. There's a good chance I make back all of what spend and more.
So, yes, it's temporary, but if temporary means "less than 3 years" it might as well be permanent. So your observation only becomes relevant ...when? A year from now? 2? More?
The HSTR advantage remains a huge advantage that (absent some specific goal that's not about maximizing success in game) should make SLKR everyone's first GL until at least after CG publicly announces that they're thinking about making HSTR simmable.
Until you have 11 slkr then the disappointment begins.
Until you have 11 slkr then the disappointment begins.
I guarantee you the disappointment is worse if you are one of the 39 in your guild who don't have SLKR.
Haha I was one of the people to go for rey first so trust me I was one of the 39 for a while. Now once and a while I place in top 10.
We have in the 20’s of slkr. This will forever be a problem until this raid is simmable.
It’s gotten to a point that half the guild goes and mercs for better rewards.
And I won’t tell you the mess that causes.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
At minimum I make back more than 1/2 of what I spend. There's a good chance I make back all of what spend and more.
So, yes, it's temporary, but if temporary means "less than 3 years" it might as well be permanent. So your observation only becomes relevant ...when? A year from now? 2? More?
The HSTR advantage remains a huge advantage that (absent some specific goal that's not about maximizing success in game) should make SLKR everyone's first GL until at least after CG publicly announces that they're thinking about making HSTR simmable.
So you have to invest resources you struggle to get in order to get a toon that you might get all those resources back with.....that doesn't really sound like a good investment. And since you've already said you're one of 39 ppl without him, there's already more than 10 ppl in your guild with him. So you're still not guaranteed a top 10 spot. And as more ppl in your guild get him, you're going to find RNG placing you 20th+ which is not a very good return on your investment and makes you recouping your investment even more unlikely.
So what's the advantage of having him? The illusion of chance? You don't need him for DS Geo TB. He's useless in LS Geo. He's easily thumped by JKL, Rey, Gen Sky, JML in arena, GAC, TW. He can solo SEE? Ooooh congratulations! Most ppl seem to have gone LS for their GLs anyway bc of LS Geo so that doesn't really help you. And if there's other SLKs in your way, you don't need an SLK to beat them.
Get him if you want and you personally deem him so valuable. I don't see him as valuable and I loathe his character. I'm only getting Rey bc of LS Geo. So I will not be getting him. But good luck with your SLK! May he be all you think he will be.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
At minimum I make back more than 1/2 of what I spend. There's a good chance I make back all of what spend and more.
So, yes, it's temporary, but if temporary means "less than 3 years" it might as well be permanent. So your observation only becomes relevant ...when? A year from now? 2? More?
The HSTR advantage remains a huge advantage that (absent some specific goal that's not about maximizing success in game) should make SLKR everyone's first GL until at least after CG publicly announces that they're thinking about making HSTR simmable.
So you have to invest resources you struggle to get in order to get a toon that you might get all those resources back with.....that doesn't really sound like a good investment. And since you've already said you're one of 39 ppl without him, there's already more than 10 ppl in your guild with him. So you're still not guaranteed a top 10 spot. And as more ppl in your guild get him, you're going to find RNG placing you 20th+ which is not a very good return on your investment and makes you recouping your investment even more unlikely.
So what's the advantage of having him? The illusion of chance? You don't need him for DS Geo TB. He's useless in LS Geo. He's easily thumped by JKL, Rey, Gen Sky, JML in arena, GAC, TW. He can solo SEE? Ooooh congratulations! Most ppl seem to have gone LS for their GLs anyway bc of LS Geo so that doesn't really help you. And if there's other SLKs in your way, you don't need an SLK to beat them.
Get him if you want and you personally deem him so valuable. I don't see him as valuable and I loathe his character. I'm only getting Rey bc of LS Geo. So I will not be getting him. But good luck with your SLK! May he be all you think he will be.
I’m trying to understand your reasoning here.
Rey can do well in 1 battle/phase of LSTB.
She is less useful in raids.
Useless in DSTB (you say SLKR doesn’t help here either - so is your guild maxing stars already?)
She is also (debatably) less powerful in PVP, but even leaving that aside....
You feel that her contribution to LSTB outweighs SLKR’s contribution to DSTB and raids combined?
If you have 50 Rey in your guild, what does that translate to in terms of additional stars? And associated rewards?
It certainly has to be less that what SLKR brings? He probably brings close to the same improvement in TB rewards and the improved raid performance along with it.
So you have to invest resources you struggle to get in order to get a toon that you might get all those resources back with.....that doesn't really sound like a good investment.
Yeah, that comparison, if you re-read it, is what rewards you get over and above the rewards you would get for GL Rey.
So with SLKR you get back approximately what you would get for investing in GL Rey plus more than half of all resources you invested in the SLKR requirements - so it's like you get the GL Rey rewards without investing resources in GL Rey requirements.
No, it's not guaranteed, but no investment is guaranteed. A meteor could hit CG's headquarters tomorrow. This is the nature of investment. However, the rewards are clearly more than the rewards for investment in GL Rey, assuming that "rewards" are measured in-game. (Rewards like personal happiness are not being considered here because it's possible to get fun & satisfaction & happiness from relic'ing the Tuskens & Jawas even though that won't help you much in game.) In fact, the rewards are so much better that over the course of a year or so, (the exact amount of time depending on other factors that will change from player to player) you'll get to a place where it's like you didn't spend anything on SLKR requirements at all.
Again, if you're someone who would rather relic Mob Enforcer on a lark because that's what makes you smile or laugh or whatever, SLKR isn't "better". If you're someone who loves Rey with the fire of a thousand death star superlasers, SLKR isn't "better".
If you're measuring in-game rewards of different strategies, SLKR is so much better that within roughly 9-13 months you can be at a place where you've acquired extra rewards over & above what you would get from another GL that makes your superior position effectively free.
So get whatever you like. My argument isn't that SLKR is "objectively better" since different people care about different things - it's a game & everyone has a different definition of actions that generate fun. My argument is that SLKR objectively grants more in-game rewards. And it does.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
Yep, you are correct, further investigation did show it not gaining. I just didnt check back on that channel after posting this. Sorry about that.
Flagged and should be resolved in an update (not exactly sure when)
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
Yep, you are correct, further investigation did show it not gaining. I just didnt check back on that channel after posting this. Sorry about that.
Flagged and should be resolved in an update (not exactly sure when)
This is my biggest problem with CG and happens all the time.
"Hey this thing is happening and it isn't intended"
And the response is, we tested it and aren't seeing it.
Then someone posts video evidence of it happening.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
Yep, you are correct, further investigation did show it not gaining. I just didnt check back on that channel after posting this. Sorry about that.
Flagged and should be resolved in an update (not exactly sure when)
This is my biggest problem with CG and happens all the time.
"Hey this thing is happening and it isn't intended"
And the response is, we tested it and aren't seeing it.
Then someone posts video evidence of it happening.
Oh well, maybe it is then.
And what do you propose they do different?
For every post of an actual problem, there are probably two or three of people just misunderstanding the mechanics.
If they knew there was an issue they probably would have said so. There are posts where they mentioned known issues. I have no reason to believe they intentionally leave anything off of those.
So assuming they don't know ahead of time, it seems completely reasonable they would be skeptical of a bug until they see evidence of it.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
Yep, you are correct, further investigation did show it not gaining. I just didnt check back on that channel after posting this. Sorry about that.
Flagged and should be resolved in an update (not exactly sure when)
This is my biggest problem with CG and happens all the time.
"Hey this thing is happening and it isn't intended"
And the response is, we tested it and aren't seeing it.
Then someone posts video evidence of it happening.
Oh well, maybe it is then.
Just an FYI, that is not what happened this time.
The dev I spoke to replied back shortly after telling me that, they looked deeper and confirmed it was a bug. I didnt go back and check that channel, until it was posted again here.
Replies
They are meant to be powerful and useful to LS or DS dependent, but as we see they also have a specific faction that they bring some life to or utilize better when they are needed (TBs, events,...)
Many parts of their kits is specific to their faction. So there is a trade when using them in another team, that doesnt mean they will be bad in other teams.
What about any of the GLs kits do think goes against that philosophy?
They are useful in other teams, but they are faction specific do you not agree?
It does seem to be a difference. JML and SEE seem to be just keeping their head above water in the faction they were built for. (More SEE than JML) I don’t see how they could do well outside of those factions, whereas Rey and SLKR are far more viable plugging in a wider variety of different things.
i kinda dont get any of your arguing in here
there are 2 important characters that people should get to maximize their ressource income
slkr and jkl
everything else is completely unneeded
with slk you get your easy arena climbs, your additional ds geo tb team for p4 and an easy hsr solo
with jkl you get (for a relatively low investment) the biggest boost in ls geo tb
having rey, palp, or jml is just random stuff if you can/want to afford it
getting them also pushes your gac gp so there is no real gain (besides facing those rare opponents that have like 1 gl less but useless stuff reliced bloating their gp)
so whenever your ressources are limited, those slkr and jkl are the 2 characters to get to maximize your ressource income
so trying to "promote" other gls if people dont have slkr and jkl is just bad advise and thats not a personal oppinion but a fact
of course people can get whatever they want if they are a fan of any of those gls or pay/farm everything together
but it would still be a bad decision if you try to min/max your rewards
so in that regard those gls are nowhere near even
and just because more new gls pop up in arena shards doesnt say a single word about usefulness
but if you dont have any > get slkr and jkl
The point is there are middle ground people who have been working towards SEE. It has consumed a metric ton of resources. It wpuld be absolutely frustrating if he cant hold any value and then another meta drops. I currently have SLKR. I have been working towards SEE since announcement. If something else dropped like 2 more GLs at Rey/Kylos level SEE would be in a god awful plac le. JML isnt great in terms of the formers, but in groups he can still absoluty decimate, along with the bastilla lead wat comp that is just cancer.
SEE is in a bad place, as are the people that busted **** to get him as a second GL vs the alternatives.
But the real problem is team synergy. I feel like the Jedis just have that going on better. Sure Kylo is a beast but his team is literally there to feed him ult for a turn or 2 if theyre lucky. Jedis just feel like there is more team effort if every team.
there is no real middle ground
if you have slkr but not jkl then you are not after the "required" point
if you have both and wanna take a 2. gl you take the one that suits your interest best
which obv is not arena if you already have slkr
so you pick the one that helps you make a specific part of your game better (geo tb / tw / gac)
there is basically no reason to be disapointed in arena performance from palp because you already have a good to go team for that
so you have slkr and jkl?
Kits for GLs are too complex for accurate power estimates. As long as CG says that the next GLs will be "about the same power level" as GLs I already have, the smart move will actually be to pass on everything for a month or two, horde gear if you want to, gear up other cool new toons (like Mando, etc.) if you want to.
Picking a GL in advance of good performance data in a variety of game modes is just asking to spend you days crying on the forums about how you've been cheated.
It's a bold move, from CG, to make rushing the new, high-resource toons into a risky and frequently unproductive endeavor. Let's see if that pays off for them.
But no new numbers after that.
Jml rey and especially slkr will continue to climb.
SEE will be this fossil of a character that nobody will ever go for until they got the other 3 and by then more will come out.
Maybe SEE is the meta character for those new future GLs.
Well I’m ready !! 😒
I think this is the crux of it, everyone assumed similar in power meant "slightly better" which would make sense given 7 months since the old ones dropped and would refresh arena and PVP modes.
Turns out they are slightly worse. They are still powerful but just farm SLKR and keep him and that's all you need for a long while.
All the GLs (except SEE) can beat SLKR, I think. But what makes SLKR so amazing is his multitude of uses. He is S tier in every type of game mode, including PvE. In PvE I would say he's even SSS tier. I mean come on he can solo the sith raid lol
Meh I don't want and won't get SLKR. there's other squads that can do very well in sith raid and once we can sim that raid his value shrinks massively as that's the only thing he does that the others don't do.
In terms of relevancy, i doubt he will have much place as he is, when new sith toons come out because he doesn't really do anything amazing for the Sith faction, and whoever the new quality Sith toons will be, I feel like they'll be more self-contained and will be better under their own lead and faction if Trio, Sith Empire is any indication
Okay, let's say that's correct. When do you think that raid is going to be simmable? Because we've been told recently by CG that they're willing to think about letting us sim HAAT, but they aren't even **thinking** about a simmable HSTR.
Given that they aren't willing to think about it yet, I am sure it's a good year off, maybe more. Maybe a lot more.
So if I go all in on SLKR & get him in whatever is the average amount of time (4 months? 5?), that means I get at least 7 months of enhanced HSTR rewards. That's enough to make back a lot of what I spent on the required toons. If I get in 9-12 months of enhanced HSTR rewards, that probably pays back everything I spent on required toons - and I'm not talking compared to no raids, I'm talking about compared to doing the raids without SLKR.
At minimum I make back more than 1/2 of what I spend. There's a good chance I make back all of what spend and more.
So, yes, it's temporary, but if temporary means "less than 3 years" it might as well be permanent. So your observation only becomes relevant ...when? A year from now? 2? More?
The HSTR advantage remains a huge advantage that (absent some specific goal that's not about maximizing success in game) should make SLKR everyone's first GL until at least after CG publicly announces that they're thinking about making HSTR simmable.
Until you have 11 slkr then the disappointment begins.
I guarantee you the disappointment is worse if you are one of the 39 in your guild who don't have SLKR.
Haha I was one of the people to go for rey first so trust me I was one of the 39 for a while. Now once and a while I place in top 10.
We have in the 20’s of slkr. This will forever be a problem until this raid is simmable.
It’s gotten to a point that half the guild goes and mercs for better rewards.
And I won’t tell you the mess that causes.
There is a bug with Jedi Lessons that when at max stacks the stack's duration is not reset when IT or They Grow Beyond is used on such target (or self in case of IT). This means JML is not getting ultimate charge for these attempts, which explains why it is so hard to charge the ultimate. The stack reset, that is in Luke's kit, is missing altogether from the ability code as per swgoh.gg.
Please report this to <<Answers HQ>>
So you have to invest resources you struggle to get in order to get a toon that you might get all those resources back with.....that doesn't really sound like a good investment. And since you've already said you're one of 39 ppl without him, there's already more than 10 ppl in your guild with him. So you're still not guaranteed a top 10 spot. And as more ppl in your guild get him, you're going to find RNG placing you 20th+ which is not a very good return on your investment and makes you recouping your investment even more unlikely.
So what's the advantage of having him? The illusion of chance? You don't need him for DS Geo TB. He's useless in LS Geo. He's easily thumped by JKL, Rey, Gen Sky, JML in arena, GAC, TW. He can solo SEE? Ooooh congratulations! Most ppl seem to have gone LS for their GLs anyway bc of LS Geo so that doesn't really help you. And if there's other SLKs in your way, you don't need an SLK to beat them.
Get him if you want and you personally deem him so valuable. I don't see him as valuable and I loathe his character. I'm only getting Rey bc of LS Geo. So I will not be getting him. But good luck with your SLK! May he be all you think he will be.
Got some information back from the team on this one, they check and he does gain charge when it's at max stacks
Edit to add: the duration reset is there too, but its not shown on swgoh.gg, due to the way the ability is written and the way they analyze and break it down for display.
I’m trying to understand your reasoning here.
Rey can do well in 1 battle/phase of LSTB.
She is less useful in raids.
Useless in DSTB (you say SLKR doesn’t help here either - so is your guild maxing stars already?)
She is also (debatably) less powerful in PVP, but even leaving that aside....
You feel that her contribution to LSTB outweighs SLKR’s contribution to DSTB and raids combined?
If you have 50 Rey in your guild, what does that translate to in terms of additional stars? And associated rewards?
It certainly has to be less that what SLKR brings? He probably brings close to the same improvement in TB rewards and the improved raid performance along with it.
Yeah, that comparison, if you re-read it, is what rewards you get over and above the rewards you would get for GL Rey.
So with SLKR you get back approximately what you would get for investing in GL Rey plus more than half of all resources you invested in the SLKR requirements - so it's like you get the GL Rey rewards without investing resources in GL Rey requirements.
No, it's not guaranteed, but no investment is guaranteed. A meteor could hit CG's headquarters tomorrow. This is the nature of investment. However, the rewards are clearly more than the rewards for investment in GL Rey, assuming that "rewards" are measured in-game. (Rewards like personal happiness are not being considered here because it's possible to get fun & satisfaction & happiness from relic'ing the Tuskens & Jawas even though that won't help you much in game.) In fact, the rewards are so much better that over the course of a year or so, (the exact amount of time depending on other factors that will change from player to player) you'll get to a place where it's like you didn't spend anything on SLKR requirements at all.
Again, if you're someone who would rather relic Mob Enforcer on a lark because that's what makes you smile or laugh or whatever, SLKR isn't "better". If you're someone who loves Rey with the fire of a thousand death star superlasers, SLKR isn't "better".
If you're measuring in-game rewards of different strategies, SLKR is so much better that within roughly 9-13 months you can be at a place where you've acquired extra rewards over & above what you would get from another GL that makes your superior position effectively free.
So get whatever you like. My argument isn't that SLKR is "objectively better" since different people care about different things - it's a game & everyone has a different definition of actions that generate fun. My argument is that SLKR objectively grants more in-game rewards. And it does.
There is a reddit thread about this. Link attached to that Answers HQ report. How are they explaining the vid where charge is not gained after use of IT?
Yep, you are correct, further investigation did show it not gaining. I just didnt check back on that channel after posting this. Sorry about that.
Flagged and should be resolved in an update (not exactly sure when)
This is my biggest problem with CG and happens all the time.
"Hey this thing is happening and it isn't intended"
And the response is, we tested it and aren't seeing it.
Then someone posts video evidence of it happening.
Oh well, maybe it is then.
And what do you propose they do different?
For every post of an actual problem, there are probably two or three of people just misunderstanding the mechanics.
If they knew there was an issue they probably would have said so. There are posts where they mentioned known issues. I have no reason to believe they intentionally leave anything off of those.
So assuming they don't know ahead of time, it seems completely reasonable they would be skeptical of a bug until they see evidence of it.
Just an FYI, that is not what happened this time.
The dev I spoke to replied back shortly after telling me that, they looked deeper and confirmed it was a bug. I didnt go back and check that channel, until it was posted again here.