The matchmaking is set by the active gp of the participating players, not the gp of the entire guild. That mean each guild is match with a guild within the range of reasonable active gp. Now, what we do with our gp is entire up to us. We could have this gp from Tuskan or from Sith Empire, from Phoenix or from 501st (I go to the extream for the argument).
You want to succeed more in TW/GAC/TB- develop more effective toons
No.
This is the issue - when 25 players sign up vs 50 (for an extreme example), they look at the active GP only.
It doesn't matter if the 50 that sign up have the most effective toons developed or not, they will likely not have the meta toons the 25 players do with their rosters twice the GP.
If you have active GP of 120m from 25 players and your opponent has active 120M from 45 players there's going to be a huge GAP in quality of squads... That is the purpose of this discussion... If it was 120 & 40 players in each guild but one guild has better quality then that is a fair match whatever the outcome
44 vs 26 so the average per guild is shocking...
65m
1.47m vs 2.50
we're going to have to start limiting the number of people that join to 25/26 and see if that works, seems to be an unfair way of participating to me though!!!
I am still hearing of TW Matchmaking Horror stories, if you have a history of bad matchmaking, and in this thread we are really looking at where the Active GP is Matched but the number of Active Players is not matched resulting in an unfair average, please DM me your ally codes...
I am still hearing of TW Matchmaking Horror stories, if you have a history of bad matchmaking, and in this thread we are really looking at where the Active GP is Matched but the number of Active Players is not matched resulting in an unfair average, please DM me your ally codes...
I am still hearing of TW Matchmaking Horror stories, if you have a history of bad matchmaking, and in this thread we are really looking at where the Active GP is Matched but the number of Active Players is not matched resulting in an unfair average, please DM me your ally codes...
CG has this data - and could easily break it down and look at it. I'm not quite sure why they don't.
IIRC, someone asked about "sandbagging" in TW in a previous Q&A and CG didn't even seem to understand the question. To be clear - whether a guild does it intentionally or not, is largely irrelevant. The algorithm needs to fixed to account for differing numbers of active players on opposing guilds.
Punishing guilds for full participation in a game mode seems contrary to the spirit of the game.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I am still hearing of TW Matchmaking Horror stories, if you have a history of bad matchmaking, and in this thread we are really looking at where the Active GP is Matched but the number of Active Players is not matched resulting in an unfair average, please DM me your ally codes...
CG has this data - and could easily break it down and look at it. I'm not quite sure why they don't.
IIRC, someone asked about "sandbagging" in TW in a previous Q&A and CG didn't even seem to understand the question. To be clear - whether a guild does it intentionally or not, is largely irrelevant. The algorithm needs to fixed to account for differing numbers of active players on opposing guilds.
Punishing guilds for full participation in a game mode seems contrary to the spirit of the game.
It’s gone so far past the point at which this became obvious, I fear the devs aren’t interested in doing anything about it.
Which is a travesty, really. Seems quite easy to fix.
Most TWs my guild gets destroyed by a much stronger one. We get nearly full guild participation and we are punished for it. Our opponent is almost always a very strong guild whose top players all join but for whatever reason, many weaker accounts do not. This has been going on for over a year now. I'd be surprised to find out that we've won over 10% of our matches over that time. It's really discouraging. Furthermore, it's disheartening to see that no one cares to fix this problem. We report most of our mismatches, yet nothing changes. They must know that this has been broken for a really long time now. Yet nothing is done about it. Worse yet, no one is even acknowledging it. Complete nonsense. Believe me, the matchmaking algorithm is broken.
The TW matchmaking system is passable. While it doesn’t factor speed mods or galactic legends. If the gp is close and you get destroyed, it’s your fault. You either managed your gp wrong and have gear on bad characters, or your guild coordination sucks.
However, there should be a better reason to sign up in order to discourage sandbagging such as better rewards. YOUR LOSS IS YOUR FAULT!
If 32 join TW with an active GP of 120m and they are against 42 with an active GP of 120m it is a clear indication you are up against stronger squads... How is that the fault of the lower GP Guild???
Thank you for the concise report... I know the issue is frustrating and I know there is something going on but I have to say the Devs will need to accept that this is broken and I don't see why it is that complicated to fix.
If the guild with 32 told the others not to sign up, that is an issue. However, if most of your gp is made up of g8 - g9 toons and your guild is against relics. Those players with out relic characters don’t belong in your guild.
And me again with results which contradict the common opinion. Our two last TW:
43vs34, close loss (eventually we lack just one A-squad to breach the sector defense).
43vs30, overwhelming win (six vs two sectors cleared).
If 32 join TW with an active GP of 120m and they are against 42 with an active GP of 120m it is a clear indication you are up against stronger squads...
In fact, it's not that simple (and not always true). You are forgetting that smaller side must deploy more squads per player that other. It may lead to clear advantage for 42-members guild just because they could deploy higher-grade squads, on average. For example, smaller guild can only have 32 DR and JKR squads while larger can have 42. If smaller one also have 20 highly developed BH squads to fill the gap, will it help them much? I don't think so.
The TW matchmaking system is passable. While it doesn’t factor speed mods or galactic legends. If the gp is close and you get destroyed, it’s your fault. You either managed your gp wrong and have gear on bad characters, or your guild coordination sucks.
However, there should be a better reason to sign up in order to discourage sandbagging such as better rewards. YOUR LOSS IS YOUR FAULT!
By your own admission, the system does not count GLs who are the best characters in the game. Thereby, the system is flawed. Our last TW, my guild with 16 GLs faced We Did it All 4 the Wookiee that has 36 GLs. That's more than double what we have. You say that there isn't a problem here and that this is our fault? That is absurd. I don't think your opinion can be considered valid here. I don't feel that asking for a level playing field is unreasonable. Clearly you have not encountered these lopsided matchups. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that there is a problem for many of us. I'm very interested to hear how you think that 36 GLs vs 16 is passable to use your wording. Hopefully evaluating is not part of something you have to do on a day to day basis. That doesn't get a pass from me.
@Hortus
I have experienced this type of matchup where we had less players joined and with what would appear to be a major disadvantage on GP per player, but then won by a landslide. That says to me either they didn't really try or it is indeed a result of the matching process.
All we are asking is a good look into this by CG Devs. We know and accept that there will always be times when the game does things we don't like and feel frustrated. But this issue has gone beyond that for so many of us.
When tw is 42 Vs 28 and your opponent has more than double the number of relics than you.
Here's that previous matchup that I had mentioned. It's even more lopsided. Also very clearly my fault that we lost. I'm really glad that this was brought to my attention. I had always thought that an algorithm that has not kept up with the evolving content in the game was to blame. It feels better to know that as was stated by @stealthgoblin this loss was my fault.
===========Overview===========
Members :: 50 vs 47
GP :: 232.3M vs 271.3M
Avg Arena Rank :: 279.66 vs 114.00
Avg Fleet Rank :: 69.32 vs 99.40
Zetas :: 3964 vs 4965
Ults :: 10 vs 28
============Gears============
G11 :: 1113 vs 1159
G12 :: 1415 vs 1914
G12+1 :: 273 vs 306
G12+2 :: 219 vs 288
G12+3 :: 322 vs 531
G12+4 :: 123 vs 194
G12+5 :: 67 vs 158
G13 :: 1291 vs 2085
============Relics============
Tier 0 :: 10 vs 13
Tier 1 :: 62 vs 55
Tier 2 :: 71 vs 86
Tier 3 :: 242 vs 371
Tier 4 :: 218 vs 427
Tier 5 :: 428 vs 601
Tier 6 :: 60 vs 105
Tier 7 :: 200 vs 423
Here we go again...
we're going to have to start limiting the number of people that join to 25/26 and see if that works, seems to be an unfair way of participating to me though!!!
If you go that route that is a mistake for your guild. It is better for your guild as a whole to have everyone participate and earn rewards. If you limit to only half participating, then even if you win your rewards in some categories are much worse than those if everyone participated and you lost. You don't want to get into a habit of excluding members from events.
You never know what kind of match you are going to get from this system so just try to get everyone in and hope for the best. if it is a bad match you at least can get in some practicing facing tougher squads.
The TW matchmaking system is passable. While it doesn’t factor speed mods or galactic legends. If the gp is close and you get destroyed, it’s your fault. You either managed your gp wrong and have gear on bad characters, or your guild coordination sucks.
However, there should be a better reason to sign up in order to discourage sandbagging such as better rewards. YOUR LOSS IS YOUR FAULT!
Sorry - this is wrong. Your statements DO apply to GAC, but the matchmaking is different for TW. TW clearly does not accurately (in so far as creating "even" matchups) account for different numbers of active players on both sides.
As DarjeloSalas pointed out above, this has sadly been the case for a very long time - and CG is likely aware of it. So it's pretty obvious this issue will continue indefinitely.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@nottenst
You're right we should never restrict the number of player by choice but it looks like guilds do to exploit the matchmaking loophole
Current matchup our 41 Vs their 30
That's an average 3.1 Vs 4.3
I know it doesn't guarantee the results but it does say something...
It's a shame we have become so cynical about CG listening and acting on our concerns... But without action all that happens is frustration builds and the players walk, new and old... I see so many just give up now
My guild has been getting decent TW matching lately. But I do think that the player count issue should be factored in to limit mismatches, if it’s feasible to do that. From a philosophical standpoint, getting a high participation in TWs should be a good thing and get rewarded or at least treated neutrally as opposed to being a ticket to lopsided mismatches in some wars.
Could we add something regarding the methodology as it stands for Territory War Match Making (despite my personal feelings that it isn't fair) to Forum FAQ - By the players, for the players...
"TW Match Making is based upon Active GP at the end of Sign Up"
Replies
No.
This is the issue - when 25 players sign up vs 50 (for an extreme example), they look at the active GP only.
It doesn't matter if the 50 that sign up have the most effective toons developed or not, they will likely not have the meta toons the 25 players do with their rosters twice the GP.
If only it was that straightforward...
If you have active GP of 120m from 25 players and your opponent has active 120M from 45 players there's going to be a huge GAP in quality of squads... That is the purpose of this discussion... If it was 120 & 40 players in each guild but one guild has better quality then that is a fair match whatever the outcome
44 vs 26 so the average per guild is shocking...
65m
1.47m vs 2.50
we're going to have to start limiting the number of people that join to 25/26 and see if that works, seems to be an unfair way of participating to me though!!!
:-)
CG has this data - and could easily break it down and look at it. I'm not quite sure why they don't.
IIRC, someone asked about "sandbagging" in TW in a previous Q&A and CG didn't even seem to understand the question. To be clear - whether a guild does it intentionally or not, is largely irrelevant. The algorithm needs to fixed to account for differing numbers of active players on opposing guilds.
Punishing guilds for full participation in a game mode seems contrary to the spirit of the game.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Which is a travesty, really. Seems quite easy to fix.
Yes, I am sure that CG have the data, and I know there are guilds that hit the "Report Guild" button...
I think if can keep this going and in a polite and constructive manner we will start getting some attention...
As much as I am looking forward to the new content, there's a big part of me that thinks, fix what exists first and then look at the new stuff...
As always I appreciate everyone's inputs, even the Admiral himself
However, there should be a better reason to sign up in order to discourage sandbagging such as better rewards. YOUR LOSS IS YOUR FAULT!
If 32 join TW with an active GP of 120m and they are against 42 with an active GP of 120m it is a clear indication you are up against stronger squads... How is that the fault of the lower GP Guild???
@Andyhabs13
Thank you for the concise report... I know the issue is frustrating and I know there is something going on but I have to say the Devs will need to accept that this is broken and I don't see why it is that complicated to fix.
43vs34, close loss (eventually we lack just one A-squad to breach the sector defense).
43vs30, overwhelming win (six vs two sectors cleared).
In fact, it's not that simple (and not always true). You are forgetting that smaller side must deploy more squads per player that other. It may lead to clear advantage for 42-members guild just because they could deploy higher-grade squads, on average. For example, smaller guild can only have 32 DR and JKR squads while larger can have 42. If smaller one also have 20 highly developed BH squads to fill the gap, will it help them much? I don't think so.
By your own admission, the system does not count GLs who are the best characters in the game. Thereby, the system is flawed. Our last TW, my guild with 16 GLs faced We Did it All 4 the Wookiee that has 36 GLs. That's more than double what we have. You say that there isn't a problem here and that this is our fault? That is absurd. I don't think your opinion can be considered valid here. I don't feel that asking for a level playing field is unreasonable. Clearly you have not encountered these lopsided matchups. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that there is a problem for many of us. I'm very interested to hear how you think that 36 GLs vs 16 is passable to use your wording. Hopefully evaluating is not part of something you have to do on a day to day basis. That doesn't get a pass from me.
I have experienced this type of matchup where we had less players joined and with what would appear to be a major disadvantage on GP per player, but then won by a landslide. That says to me either they didn't really try or it is indeed a result of the matching process.
All we are asking is a good look into this by CG Devs. We know and accept that there will always be times when the game does things we don't like and feel frustrated. But this issue has gone beyond that for so many of us.
When tw is 42 Vs 28 and your opponent has more than double the number of relics than you.
GP :: 232.3M vs 254.7M
Avg Arena Rank :: 278.74 vs 171.74
Avg Fleet Rank :: 69.32 vs 56.40
Zetas :: 3964 vs 4688
Ults :: 10 vs 23
============Gears============
G11 :: 1114 vs 1095
G12 :: 1414 vs 1718
G12+1 :: 273 vs 304
G12+2 :: 219 vs 275
G12+3 :: 322 vs 305
G12+4 :: 123 vs 154
G12+5 :: 67 vs 101
G13 :: 1291 vs 1810
============Relics============
Tier 0 :: 10 vs 4
Tier 1 :: 62 vs 41
Tier 2 :: 71 vs 75
Tier 3 :: 242 vs 386
Tier 4 :: 218 vs 303
Tier 5 :: 429 vs 587
Tier 6 :: 59 vs 79
Tier 7 :: 200 vs 332
Oh look at that another really bad matchup. Must be my fault.
===========Overview===========
Members :: 50 vs 47
GP :: 232.3M vs 271.3M
Avg Arena Rank :: 279.66 vs 114.00
Avg Fleet Rank :: 69.32 vs 99.40
Zetas :: 3964 vs 4965
Ults :: 10 vs 28
============Gears============
G11 :: 1113 vs 1159
G12 :: 1415 vs 1914
G12+1 :: 273 vs 306
G12+2 :: 219 vs 288
G12+3 :: 322 vs 531
G12+4 :: 123 vs 194
G12+5 :: 67 vs 158
G13 :: 1291 vs 2085
============Relics============
Tier 0 :: 10 vs 13
Tier 1 :: 62 vs 55
Tier 2 :: 71 vs 86
Tier 3 :: 242 vs 371
Tier 4 :: 218 vs 427
Tier 5 :: 428 vs 601
Tier 6 :: 60 vs 105
Tier 7 :: 200 vs 423
If you go that route that is a mistake for your guild. It is better for your guild as a whole to have everyone participate and earn rewards. If you limit to only half participating, then even if you win your rewards in some categories are much worse than those if everyone participated and you lost. You don't want to get into a habit of excluding members from events.
You never know what kind of match you are going to get from this system so just try to get everyone in and hope for the best. if it is a bad match you at least can get in some practicing facing tougher squads.
Sorry - this is wrong. Your statements DO apply to GAC, but the matchmaking is different for TW. TW clearly does not accurately (in so far as creating "even" matchups) account for different numbers of active players on both sides.
As DarjeloSalas pointed out above, this has sadly been the case for a very long time - and CG is likely aware of it. So it's pretty obvious this issue will continue indefinitely.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You're right we should never restrict the number of player by choice but it looks like guilds do to exploit the matchmaking loophole
Current matchup our 41 Vs their 30
That's an average 3.1 Vs 4.3
I know it doesn't guarantee the results but it does say something...
It's a shame we have become so cynical about CG listening and acting on our concerns... But without action all that happens is frustration builds and the players walk, new and old... I see so many just give up now
43 vs. 30
AVG GP 1.79m vs 2.57m
Members :: 50 vs 50
GP :: 87.2M vs 112.0M
Avg Arena Rank :: 818.34 vs 1228.66
Avg Fleet Rank :: 189.98 vs 180.96
Zetas :: 629 vs 1548
Members :: 49 vs 47
GP :: 151.7M vs 175.4M
Avg Arena Rank :: 624.47 vs 539.55
Avg Fleet Rank :: 172.94 vs 170.04
Zetas :: 2101 vs 2863
Ults :: 2 vs 0
43 vs 36
AVG GP 3.181m vs 3.8m
Hopefully the Ults work in our Favour
You guys increased GP from 87M to 152M between TWs?
Two Guilds...
Maybe I play too much... I didn't bother sharing the 3rd
43 vs. 30
AVG GP 1.79m vs 2.57m
Members :: 50 vs 50
GP :: 87.2M vs 112.0M
Complete Wipe Out
Then a closer match up (no stats were available) which I Know won...
Scruffy Looking
Members :: 49 vs 47
GP :: 151.7M vs 175.4M
43 vs 36
AVG GP 3.181m vs 3.8m
We won and it was close
The next match up
Members :: 49 vs 48
GP :: 152.2M vs 178.7M
41 vs 38
3.36m vs. 3.62 m
They won and it was close
But there still seems to be an issue when the Number of players joined is not matched as well as the Active GP
36 @ 3.32 vs 34 @ 3.52 should be close
44 @ 1.91 vs 32 @ 2.62 Just ridiculous
36 @ .82 vs 28 @ 1.05 Gap Doesn't seem like much but at starter guild level it is
Could we add something regarding the methodology as it stands for Territory War Match Making (despite my personal feelings that it isn't fair) to Forum FAQ - By the players, for the players...
"TW Match Making is based upon Active GP at the end of Sign Up"
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/244510/forum-faq-by-the-players-for-the-players#latest