Not that I remember and even if he was it was very short lived. Now the big nerf takes Vader away and there both in about tier 4 bracket of squads if that.
For Context (Player DarthRyløn) - I have a 2m+ roster that I’ve built since early 2021, attempting a balanced roster to enjoy and maximize benefits from as many game modes as possible. With that said my empire squad is my hard hitting crew that has allowed me to do well in GA and sustain a reasonable place in my Arena Shard, especially countering JKR, Geos and KRU teams.
Regarding the recent changes to Vader : The changes to Cullign Blade has made it more or less unlikely that I can beat similarly powered KRU and JKR teams. For example, in Arena it came to a place where it was KRU versus Vader (rest of teams eliminated), same amount of health and protection, and after a minute or two of gameplay, KRU defeated Vader. Both characters Relic 5, 2 Zetas (Vader under Zeta Palpatine lead). It was apparent after a number of turns that no turn order would allow Vader to have enough damage to defeat KRU. The best result would be a timeout. For reference I have all 6 dot mods on my Vader, with good amounts of Offense and Crit Chance.
My feedback is two fold — lore and player commitment.
Lore - I find it a bit frustrating that 1 v 1 Vader would lose to KRU, as KRU obviously had issues with knowing he wasn’t as powerful as Vader. Of course this is not necessarily the reason behind some decisions, but of course we play this game because we love Star Wars, and it is nice when lore matches up with gameplay. I like the fact that some characters are better than others, but I think we all agree Vader is one of the more powerful characters in the Universe, and it was nice when his character reflected this in the game.
Player Commitment - I have spent some money, and I have played daily since beginning my account. I have constructed a farming strategy and have spent a good amount of time invested in the game. A lot of decisions go into which characters to allocate resources on. The reason I have used as much resources as I have on my Vader team is because he was the character that he was. A hard hitting bunch that could counter a lot of teams, especially with appropriate synergies and purposeful gameplay. It is a bit of a bummer to have spent as much time and resources into a team, for a change to come that fundamentally changes what a squad is capable of achieving.
I do understand wanting GL’s to be in their own tier, as they are the most difficult and powerful characters to unlock—this makes good sense. My suggestion would be to return Culling Blade to what it was before the recent changes, with a kit exception when challenging a GL. A wordy way to say, leave Culling Blade as it was against non GL’s, and keep the recent change when fighting GLs. This would keep the character more lore accurate, while keeping him in a category beneath GLs. More importantly it would retain the value of the character for the player who has dedicated a committed amount of time and resources in gearing up a squad that plays a very specific role in their roster.
Love the game, and appreciate the commitment you all have in keeping it viable. But this is a bit disheartening as it feels that the strategy I have been building is now much less viable due to a change that made a character less useful in a significant way.
For years CG has preached that they prefer not to nerf characters that players have spent a lot of time /resources on. They they nerf several of the most used and high-profile characters in the game.
And then CG wonders why people are quick question their sincerity and integrity.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
They nerfed Culling blade way too much. The funny part is if they had just gone with the rule "GL's resist 40% of this damage" And otherwise left the rest of his kit alone that would have achieved the goal they stated they needed to accomplish, and I do not think many would be complaining. He went from a Mandatory highest relic level character to a character who is not even worth the Relic 7 that is required for him to unlock SEE now.
That said they got what they wanted out of him, they used his rework to regain some good will with the community. Guess they feel they do not need that goodwill anymore.
CG give me back the time and efford I put into making Vader work reliable against GLs and DR!
The CC increase is pointless.
I am sure quite a lot of others are in the same boat as well.
I farmed mods for him. Spent a ton of 6 dot slices to get the right oddball mods for him. Those with potency, offense and crit chance. I got my Vader to a level where he can punch through a full CA Arrow.
Vader was a highly emotional character for me. He is powerful in the lore. And in the game he was the skill based answer to GLs. He was only reliable if you put a lot of efford into him and his team. And even then the outcome was very skill based. The concept was really good.
Whales have always been on a different level. But why not embrace that there is a skill based / competitive element in this game that does not evolve around your credit card?
Before:
A-Tier player: Lots of money spent AND mastering all the complex counters
B-Tier player: Lots of money spent & not mastering the counters OR dolphin level investment & mastering the counters
C-Tier player: Dolphin level investment & not mastering the complex counters OR free to play & mastering the counters
You took away a core element of this game without adding a new one.
I am an upper dolphin level spender, but started this game 2.5 years late. I am missing one GL, but had all the non-GL counters mastered. That is how I could stay competitive in this game. I even accepted and invested into all the relics you added which bit me back hard since I hardly had a GAC without full GL rosters. GAC has been a main source of motivation. With these changes you have killed it off. Completely. You only balance me against players with a GL advantage and now you take away all the skill based tools I have to beat them?
You should have embraced that there is a skill based factor in this game. Vader as a difficult, high investment counter to all GLs was a great choice. Same as other specialized counters against some of the other GLs.
I don't know if you spend a thought on how the game can be played from a players perspective. Or if you even play the game yourselves. Introducing GLs was already bad for the game. A lot of complexity added for little return fun-wise. But there were skill based counters, so as a competitive player you could still get your fun out of the game.
Right now there is no fun elements in the game left except my great guild. And it is falling apart because of these **** changes.
The only players having fun are those almost 6 years old players who invest heavily to have all the new stuff. And younger krakens.
I am a little over 3 years in and not a kraken and I have no fun anymore.
Edit:
I don't mind spending on this game. But there is nothing left worth spending on. I am a competitive player, but by poor strategic/balance choices you removed all competitive elements in this game for me. Arena is stale and boring. Its just a daily chore to get the crystal. No skill required. TWs are boring as well. High efford / low reward. GAC was the best competitive element, but it took a strong hit when I put more relics on my characters than others. Relics add a ton of GP without providing an equally big benefit. That is why my GAC matches are always a big uphill battle, but that was still some fun. Because there were tools out there so I could still beat the bigger number of GLs somebody else had.
And no, the 2000-3000€ for getting Rey are too high of a paywall for me.
Let's summarize what is really happened here.
We the people figured out how to beat GL teams with non-GL characters.
We the people also figured out how to manage Conquest to the end without spending any crystal.
Both of these are against the interest of money-making.
Therefore CG nerfed the key non-GL toons (during active GAC!).
Then they've made Conquest harder and more energy dependent.
And finaly they communicated with an extremely lame excuse that these changes were made in our best interest to enhance the experience.
Ha.Ha.Ha.
CG give me back the time and efford I put into making Vader work reliable against GLs and DR!
The CC increase is pointless.
I am sure quite a lot of others are in the same boat as well.
I farmed mods for him. Spent a ton of 6 dot slices to get the right oddball mods for him. Those with potency, offense and crit chance. I got my Vader to a level where he can punch through a full CA Arrow.
Vader was a highly emotional character for me. He is powerful in the lore. And in the game he was the skill based answer to GLs. He was only reliable if you put a lot of efford into him and his team. And even then the outcome was very skill based. The concept was really good.
Whales have always been on a different level. But why not embrace that there is a skill based / competitive element in this game that does not evolve around your credit card?
Before:
A-Tier player: Lots of money spent AND mastering all the complex counters
B-Tier player: Lots of money spent & not mastering the counters OR dolphin level investment & mastering the counters
C-Tier player: Dolphin level investment & not mastering the complex counters OR free to play & mastering the counters
You took away a core element of this game without adding a new one.
I am an upper dolphin level spender, but started this game 2.5 years late. I am missing one GL, but had all the non-GL counters mastered. That is how I could stay competitive in this game. I even accepted and invested into all the relics you added which bit me back hard since I hardly had a GAC without full GL rosters. GAC has been a main source of motivation. With these changes you have killed it off. Completely. You only balance me against players with a GL advantage and now you take away all the skill based tools I have to beat them?
You should have embraced that there is a skill based factor in this game. Vader as a difficult, high investment counter to all GLs was a great choice. Same as other specialized counters against some of the other GLs.
I don't know if you spend a thought on how the game can be played from a players perspective. Or if you even play the game yourselves. Introducing GLs was already bad for the game. A lot of complexity added for little return fun-wise. But there were skill based counters, so as a competitive player you could still get your fun out of the game.
Right now there is no fun elements in the game left except my great guild. And it is falling apart because of these **** changes.
The only players having fun are those almost 6 years old players who invest heavily to have all the new stuff. And younger krakens.
I am a little over 3 years in and not a kraken and I have no fun anymore.
Edit:
I don't mind spending on this game. But there is nothing left worth spending on. I am a competitive player, but by poor strategic/balance choices you removed all competitive elements in this game for me. Arena is stale and boring. Its just a daily chore to get the crystal. No skill required. TWs are boring as well. High efford / low reward. GAC was the best competitive element, but it took a strong hit when I put more relics on my characters than others. Relics add a ton of GP without providing an equally big benefit. That is why my GAC matches are always a big uphill battle, but that was still some fun. Because there were tools out there so I could still beat the bigger number of GLs somebody else had.
And no, the 2000-3000€ for getting Rey are too high of a paywall for me.
Exactly! I also pointed the same concerns after the RA announcement, but waited for the update release, just to give them the time to maybe "listen to our feedback"...
Needless to say most of our concerns (our equals healthy-minded players - just so TVF does not reply for a +1 post) were legit:
- most non-GL counters are gone and not because of GL buffing, but of nerfing useful toons Vs non-GL teams too! What about my reliced Thrawn and Traya, that I reliced for my GL counter teams? Now they are just a GP bloat versus my GAC opponents.
- No concern from CG about TW and GAC modes, where the winning algorithm now is: number of Player/Guild 1 GLs > number of Player/Guild 2 GLs -> win...No skill involved, no fun, no strategy etc...Just all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock the GLs. Soon most player rosters will be very similar...
- Instead, let's make Conquest more difficult (partly due to the nerf), so most players cannot reach the last boxes with the new toons and R8 mats. But let's put R8 requirements everywhere...
All the latest changes show a road towards pure money grabbing and CG disregarding the players' desire to improve the current game modes. Instead they push only their new modes (Conquest).
The fun of playing the game is slowly departing. I just unlocked and got the ultimate on my first GL and instead of enjoying the fruits of the last month grind, I am more and more disappointed...
This idea that’s it’s in the best interest of the game is a nonsense.
If that were true, show us how it makes our game better. Show us something that all this was done for that we are going to find positive or enjoy. Cause so far you’ve got nothing.
I thought in games like this you're supposed to make small, incremental improvements to your roster over a period of time. Naturally, one would hope that those improvements would reap tangible rewards in various parts of the game.
Colour me surprised, but I feel the opposite is taking place. Heading backwards at an ever increasing rate because the game designers have no problems at all with resetting goalposts to suit their financial models.
So if improvement to my roster results in poorer rewards, I have to ask myself, "Why bother?"
No skill involved, no fun, no strategy etc...Just all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock the GLs. Soon most player rosters will be very similar...
I dont understand how the nerf changed anything about that. If the most effective is non-gls counter, then all accounts should farm the same toons to get those counters and soon most player rosters will be very similar. If the most effective is gls, then all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock gls and soon most player rosters will be very similar.
I also forgot to comment on the dangerous precedent that’s been set.
You cannot guarantee on the viability of any character. Old or new. The rug can be pulled away and edited at will to suit other priorities. Even if that toon took you 6-12 months and maybe even money. It can all be reduced without redress.
Exactly! I also pointed the same concerns after the RA announcement, but waited for the update release, just to give them the time to maybe "listen to our feedback"...
Needless to say most of our concerns (our equals healthy-minded players - just so TVF does not reply for a +1 post) were legit:
- most non-GL counters are gone and not because of GL buffing, but of nerfing useful toons Vs non-GL teams too! What about my reliced Thrawn and Traya, that I reliced for my GL counter teams? Now they are just a GP bloat versus my GAC opponents.
- No concern from CG about TW and GAC modes, where the winning algorithm now is: number of Player/Guild 1 GLs > number of Player/Guild 2 GLs -> win...No skill involved, no fun, no strategy etc...Just all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock the GLs. Soon most player rosters will be very similar...
- Instead, let's make Conquest more difficult (partly due to the nerf), so most players cannot reach the last boxes with the new toons and R8 mats. But let's put R8 requirements everywhere...
All the latest changes show a road towards pure money grabbing and CG disregarding the players' desire to improve the current game modes. Instead they push only their new modes (Conquest).
The fun of playing the game is slowly departing. I just unlocked and got the ultimate on my first GL and instead of enjoying the fruits of the last month grind, I am more and more disappointed...
Yes, somehow it does not come to their mind that a good game is the foundation to people spending money on it.
I even get that bypassing armor is something that should be fixed. But make sure you keep the characters identity and use the same. There are other ways to deal with it. Make GLs immune to ignoring armor. And/Or make crit chance a little more complex than just crit on/off. Make advantage increase the crit chance by 50% and add a bonus for having more than 100% crit chance. Like bypass some armor if you are at 150%.
I mean cool and great that CG had a vision of how the unit should be. But them implementing it differently is their fault. We built up entire teams around these units, because of how they were implemented.
I spent real money on getting these counters up. Its like having a child, giving it pocket money and after some months of saving up you allow it to buy that fancy baby yoda. And then you just take it away and give it a sticker of baby yoda instead.
And even for F2P players (which I am not) its at least equally painful if not worse. Time and ressources like crystal income from arena are very limited. They can barely make it from one meta to the next one. And getting non-GL counters up and running took at least a few months of progress. And now they are stuck with okayish characters while they could have progressed towards a GL with that.
The only group of players who are not severely hurt by these nerfs are the casual whales. Those who don't care about the competitive elements of this game, but still dump a lot of money on it. I don't have the numbers on those, but these can't be more than 5-10% of the spending players in this game.
Here is my take on players motivation to keep playing the game:
1. PVE: Offer challenging content that motivates you to progress your roster to get better results in. Have hard, but doable fights that you want to progress in. Both as a solo player and as an alliance.
2. PVP: Allow players to compete against each other. Arena as a daily climb and incentive to chase the latest meta, GAC to compete against other players with a comparable roster (this is already not working well) and TWs to compete as a guild. Trivialising TWs and GAC by making GLs unbeatable removes at least 50% of the skill ceiling and strategical depth. Is this really your goal CG? **** on every player who does not have all GLs and the latest Meta? These players already have a big advantage. If you can query this kind of information - how much revenue is generated from players who have all GLs and the latest meta compared to those who don't have all GLs? Is it really worth throwing everybody else under the bus?
3. Community: I am in a nice and competitive guild. We have some whales, we have some highly competitive F2P players and many in between that. Spending a little when its worth it. Some players stop playing the game due to various reasons. We have never faced such a big amount of players quitting the game as we have now. And most of them are not F2P players. Even if they were F2P - you need these kind of players to keep the spenders happy. As a spender your investment feels all the more better if that gives you the edge to beat a competitive F2P player. But it is super unsatisfying if it is no longer a challenge.
As a conclusion:
Embrace that there are non-GL counters. It really is not a bad concept. Keep Vader as a skill based counter who can consistantly beat most GL comps. Only really expensive comps that take away from other strong meta teams should be able to defend against a strong Vader. Also keep a few other teams out there that can go against a few GL comps. Like ITs beating SEE nicely if you put him on defense without Malak. And not to forget the high cost - high reward Jedi counters. These teams were something to strife for. Getting them working occasionally was not very difficult. But getting them to run consistantly against all different GL comps out there was hard. There is a good reason why top guilds did not use Vader as a regular counter against Rey. It is really hard to get Vader running consistantly against all kind of Rey comps out there. And certain modding focusses could mess up your strategy if you got it running against a regular comp.
No skill involved, no fun, no strategy etc...Just all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock the GLs. Soon most player rosters will be very similar...
I dont understand how the nerf changed anything about that. If the most effective is non-gls counter, then all accounts should farm the same toons to get those counters and soon most player rosters will be very similar. If the most effective is gls, then all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock gls and soon most player rosters will be very similar.
Non-GL counters involve at least 2-3 different teams countering each GL with various formats and compositions (not mentioning the gear levels and mods). So comparing to accounts farming only the GL requirements with little wiggle room for other toons, the variations that you can farm with non-GL toons are at least 10x more. Plus how to combine your collection and use it efficiently in GAC WAS almost an art form. This part of the game enjoyment apparently is gone...
Vader is a complete and total embarrassment now. I used him last night in DS Geo and Traya's basic was doing more damage than his culling blade. How can that be WAI? She's a support character and he's an attacker! These nerfs are an insult to our investments (time & money) and our intelligence.
When conquest launched wasn't it described as mode to use YOUR roster in unique ways. I think it was exactly that! I at one point had to use Greedo under padme with wat and gk to try to get thermals feat. It was very unique, it used a team I would never use, and really made me think about how the most effective way for ME to get the fear with MY roster. There were plenty of other feats that took the same.
Now, it's just use this faction, use that faction. That's not fun, I won't be able to use MY roster in unique ways, that is whale or fail.
Not knowing what to expect from Nerf Vader, I threw him up against some Geo's in GAC last night. Narrowly won playing what was previously an ironclad counter. They went too far with the damage nerf to his culling blade, as has been stated before. Vader doesn't feel like VADER anymore. Don't get me started on Wat. Why not give him a little extra offense at least on weapons tech?
All you people saying CG is trying to ruin the game....That is not the motivation at all. Every action they take is calculated to maximize revenue, either short term or long term. So if they say "these changes are good for the long term health of the game" just simply switch "health of the game" with "revenue". They think these changes will be good for long term revenue. Health of the game IS revenue to them.
I think they were having trouble creating new characters that people would want to whale on. You throw up a new shiny toy and youtuberXY has a video 2 hours later showing Darth Vader and Wat culling them out...well, that affects revenue...I mean.."health of the game". You need to have people motivated to spend because the new characters are difference makers. That's why they acted so quickly to buff Executor.
We all feel squeezed because that is exactly what is happening. Getting squeezed for more money so they can maximize revenue.
There is a breaking point that exists where if you squeeze too hard people just quit playing and the whole thing implodes. Maybe they just crossed that barrier, but they won't do it intentionally. This game makes serious money.
We all feel squeezed because that is exactly what is happening. Getting squeezed for more money so they can maximize revenue.
There is a breaking point that exists where if you squeeze too hard people just quit playing and the whole thing implodes. Maybe they just crossed that barrier, but they won't do it intentionally. This game makes serious money.
Totally agree with that. They are pushing the limit, finding how much can they squeeze players without affecting their revenue. And this will keep on scalating until the breaking point you mention, but I'm not sure we are there yet. Because this is Star Wars, their fans tend to tolerate more this kind of practices. I really think things will keep on getting worse. And when we finally reach the breaking point, they (EA) will probably just move to another game, just as they usually do. Squeeze, milk, discard. Welcome to the mobile game industry.
I was gonna comment.... but it's pointless.
I wrote a whole constructive spiel... but based on the most recent changes, I feel they would, at best, be noted, but ignored.
... changes like adding (and then buffing) Executor to ruin the playability of fleets (which was already meh)... and then nerfing the bejeezus out if the better toons make me despair.
Keep it up, and it'll be chilled & moderate players like myself just quitting. There'd be no 'If you keep doing this, I'll quit' from me.... I'll just wake up in the morning, and think 'What's the point!!??'... and then go about by life.
I usually like to defend CG as that’s the only way I can show my support to CG without giving up my badge of honor, 100% 0 spending. As of now I can still climb to top fleet with my 4 stars executor, and looking to unlock LV in 2-3 months. So I will reserve my judgement after LV is released, to see if I am screwed in GAC or arenas following the release. Maybe we can get creative and beat those GLs.
I understand it that they did this for problems that would have come about down the road.
Nerfing now hells them create kits for future characters that would have otherwise been a problem.
I love and miss old GAS and JKL. Absolutely best characters. Mini GL’s.
But left on course the devs would eventually paint themselves in a corner. This gives them breathing room. Plus they do want to make GLs only killable by another. And this I also agree with.
As much as I also loved all the GL counters I at the same time found it devalued my GL investment. That can hurt spending if people don’t feel value from a purchase.
I understand it that they did this for problems that would have come about down the road.
Nerfing now hells them create kits for future characters that would have otherwise been a problem.
I love and miss old GAS and JKL. Absolutely best characters. Mini GL’s.
But left on course the devs would eventually paint themselves in a corner. This gives them breathing room. Plus they do want to make GLs only killable by another. And this I also agree with.
As much as I also loved all the GL counters I at the same time found it devalued my GL investment. That can hurt spending if people don’t feel value from a purchase.
Yes and no. They wanna switch around some stuff, I mean I get it, but they went too far IMO. Wat, Vader and GAS are worse now, even against non GL’s. JKL’s damage is significantly worse and as a result JML’s team is suffering because of it. I can’t wait to see how these changes negatively impact conquest on top of the asinine changes they put in place for season 7.
I only have one legend, JML, the day before the nefs I made first in the arena, today 30. All because I dont have GAS. I wonder who is the real legend, JML or GAS?
If you wanted to make GL only beatable by other legends modify the Galactic Legend unique so that it reads "If the opposing team does not contain a GL this unit gain damage inmunity that connot be prevented..."
Simpler solutions are always better.
Did you read Maul's kit? Its hard enough to understand it for the character alone. Not to speak of all the interactions with the LV team that he will be useful in. Or 2 years down the road where you need to memorize every detail of that 5 pager of a description.
I understand it that they did this for problems that would have come about down the road.
Nerfing now hells them create kits for future characters that would have otherwise been a problem.
I love and miss old GAS and JKL. Absolutely best characters. Mini GL’s.
But left on course the devs would eventually paint themselves in a corner. This gives them breathing room. Plus they do want to make GLs only killable by another. And this I also agree with.
As much as I also loved all the GL counters I at the same time found it devalued my GL investment. That can hurt spending if people don’t feel value from a purchase.
@Sewpot It can also hurt spending if people do not feel confident what they are buying will retain its value down the road. Once C.G. opened the door to nerfing characters at their whim.. consumer confidence drops significantly. Honestly I do not believe for one second they were painting themselves into a corner. This was all about GL's getting beat by non GL's. This is just wave one of the nerfs that are incoming, trust me. Once Dark Trooper gets Accelerated.. watch him also get the nerf axe.
@CG_SBCrumb_MINI@CG_Doja_Fett_MINI any update on the Geo TB bug that locked people from completing the CM without Executor? Know plenty of people that lost stars cause of this
Vader, GAS, JKL, Wat, Thrawn. Never heard anyone in my guild (or from what I recall, on this forum either) raise concerns about them, either as GL counters or otherwise. Heck, it was a very happy day when Vader got his MM zeta.
Vader is a true icon. The nerf to him.alone is really, really bad.
Replies
For Context (Player DarthRyløn) - I have a 2m+ roster that I’ve built since early 2021, attempting a balanced roster to enjoy and maximize benefits from as many game modes as possible. With that said my empire squad is my hard hitting crew that has allowed me to do well in GA and sustain a reasonable place in my Arena Shard, especially countering JKR, Geos and KRU teams.
Regarding the recent changes to Vader : The changes to Cullign Blade has made it more or less unlikely that I can beat similarly powered KRU and JKR teams. For example, in Arena it came to a place where it was KRU versus Vader (rest of teams eliminated), same amount of health and protection, and after a minute or two of gameplay, KRU defeated Vader. Both characters Relic 5, 2 Zetas (Vader under Zeta Palpatine lead). It was apparent after a number of turns that no turn order would allow Vader to have enough damage to defeat KRU. The best result would be a timeout. For reference I have all 6 dot mods on my Vader, with good amounts of Offense and Crit Chance.
My feedback is two fold — lore and player commitment.
Lore - I find it a bit frustrating that 1 v 1 Vader would lose to KRU, as KRU obviously had issues with knowing he wasn’t as powerful as Vader. Of course this is not necessarily the reason behind some decisions, but of course we play this game because we love Star Wars, and it is nice when lore matches up with gameplay. I like the fact that some characters are better than others, but I think we all agree Vader is one of the more powerful characters in the Universe, and it was nice when his character reflected this in the game.
Player Commitment - I have spent some money, and I have played daily since beginning my account. I have constructed a farming strategy and have spent a good amount of time invested in the game. A lot of decisions go into which characters to allocate resources on. The reason I have used as much resources as I have on my Vader team is because he was the character that he was. A hard hitting bunch that could counter a lot of teams, especially with appropriate synergies and purposeful gameplay. It is a bit of a bummer to have spent as much time and resources into a team, for a change to come that fundamentally changes what a squad is capable of achieving.
I do understand wanting GL’s to be in their own tier, as they are the most difficult and powerful characters to unlock—this makes good sense. My suggestion would be to return Culling Blade to what it was before the recent changes, with a kit exception when challenging a GL. A wordy way to say, leave Culling Blade as it was against non GL’s, and keep the recent change when fighting GLs. This would keep the character more lore accurate, while keeping him in a category beneath GLs. More importantly it would retain the value of the character for the player who has dedicated a committed amount of time and resources in gearing up a squad that plays a very specific role in their roster.
Love the game, and appreciate the commitment you all have in keeping it viable. But this is a bit disheartening as it feels that the strategy I have been building is now much less viable due to a change that made a character less useful in a significant way.
Thank you for reading.
And then CG wonders why people are quick question their sincerity and integrity.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
That said they got what they wanted out of him, they used his rework to regain some good will with the community. Guess they feel they do not need that goodwill anymore.
The CC increase is pointless.
I am sure quite a lot of others are in the same boat as well.
I farmed mods for him. Spent a ton of 6 dot slices to get the right oddball mods for him. Those with potency, offense and crit chance. I got my Vader to a level where he can punch through a full CA Arrow.
Vader was a highly emotional character for me. He is powerful in the lore. And in the game he was the skill based answer to GLs. He was only reliable if you put a lot of efford into him and his team. And even then the outcome was very skill based. The concept was really good.
Whales have always been on a different level. But why not embrace that there is a skill based / competitive element in this game that does not evolve around your credit card?
Before:
A-Tier player: Lots of money spent AND mastering all the complex counters
B-Tier player: Lots of money spent & not mastering the counters OR dolphin level investment & mastering the counters
C-Tier player: Dolphin level investment & not mastering the complex counters OR free to play & mastering the counters
You took away a core element of this game without adding a new one.
I am an upper dolphin level spender, but started this game 2.5 years late. I am missing one GL, but had all the non-GL counters mastered. That is how I could stay competitive in this game. I even accepted and invested into all the relics you added which bit me back hard since I hardly had a GAC without full GL rosters. GAC has been a main source of motivation. With these changes you have killed it off. Completely. You only balance me against players with a GL advantage and now you take away all the skill based tools I have to beat them?
You should have embraced that there is a skill based factor in this game. Vader as a difficult, high investment counter to all GLs was a great choice. Same as other specialized counters against some of the other GLs.
I don't know if you spend a thought on how the game can be played from a players perspective. Or if you even play the game yourselves. Introducing GLs was already bad for the game. A lot of complexity added for little return fun-wise. But there were skill based counters, so as a competitive player you could still get your fun out of the game.
Right now there is no fun elements in the game left except my great guild. And it is falling apart because of these **** changes.
The only players having fun are those almost 6 years old players who invest heavily to have all the new stuff. And younger krakens.
I am a little over 3 years in and not a kraken and I have no fun anymore.
Edit:
I don't mind spending on this game. But there is nothing left worth spending on. I am a competitive player, but by poor strategic/balance choices you removed all competitive elements in this game for me. Arena is stale and boring. Its just a daily chore to get the crystal. No skill required. TWs are boring as well. High efford / low reward. GAC was the best competitive element, but it took a strong hit when I put more relics on my characters than others. Relics add a ton of GP without providing an equally big benefit. That is why my GAC matches are always a big uphill battle, but that was still some fun. Because there were tools out there so I could still beat the bigger number of GLs somebody else had.
And no, the 2000-3000€ for getting Rey are too high of a paywall for me.
We the people figured out how to beat GL teams with non-GL characters.
We the people also figured out how to manage Conquest to the end without spending any crystal.
Both of these are against the interest of money-making.
Therefore CG nerfed the key non-GL toons (during active GAC!).
Then they've made Conquest harder and more energy dependent.
And finaly they communicated with an extremely lame excuse that these changes were made in our best interest to enhance the experience.
Ha.Ha.Ha.
Exactly! I also pointed the same concerns after the RA announcement, but waited for the update release, just to give them the time to maybe "listen to our feedback"...
Needless to say most of our concerns (our equals healthy-minded players - just so TVF does not reply for a +1 post) were legit:
- most non-GL counters are gone and not because of GL buffing, but of nerfing useful toons Vs non-GL teams too! What about my reliced Thrawn and Traya, that I reliced for my GL counter teams? Now they are just a GP bloat versus my GAC opponents.
- No concern from CG about TW and GAC modes, where the winning algorithm now is: number of Player/Guild 1 GLs > number of Player/Guild 2 GLs -> win...No skill involved, no fun, no strategy etc...Just all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock the GLs. Soon most player rosters will be very similar...
- Instead, let's make Conquest more difficult (partly due to the nerf), so most players cannot reach the last boxes with the new toons and R8 mats. But let's put R8 requirements everywhere...
All the latest changes show a road towards pure money grabbing and CG disregarding the players' desire to improve the current game modes. Instead they push only their new modes (Conquest).
The fun of playing the game is slowly departing. I just unlocked and got the ultimate on my first GL and instead of enjoying the fruits of the last month grind, I am more and more disappointed...
If that were true, show us how it makes our game better. Show us something that all this was done for that we are going to find positive or enjoy. Cause so far you’ve got nothing.
Colour me surprised, but I feel the opposite is taking place. Heading backwards at an ever increasing rate because the game designers have no problems at all with resetting goalposts to suit their financial models.
So if improvement to my roster results in poorer rewards, I have to ask myself, "Why bother?"
I dont understand how the nerf changed anything about that. If the most effective is non-gls counter, then all accounts should farm the same toons to get those counters and soon most player rosters will be very similar. If the most effective is gls, then all accounts should farm the same toons to unlock gls and soon most player rosters will be very similar.
You cannot guarantee on the viability of any character. Old or new. The rug can be pulled away and edited at will to suit other priorities. Even if that toon took you 6-12 months and maybe even money. It can all be reduced without redress.
Yes, somehow it does not come to their mind that a good game is the foundation to people spending money on it.
I even get that bypassing armor is something that should be fixed. But make sure you keep the characters identity and use the same. There are other ways to deal with it. Make GLs immune to ignoring armor. And/Or make crit chance a little more complex than just crit on/off. Make advantage increase the crit chance by 50% and add a bonus for having more than 100% crit chance. Like bypass some armor if you are at 150%.
I mean cool and great that CG had a vision of how the unit should be. But them implementing it differently is their fault. We built up entire teams around these units, because of how they were implemented.
I spent real money on getting these counters up. Its like having a child, giving it pocket money and after some months of saving up you allow it to buy that fancy baby yoda. And then you just take it away and give it a sticker of baby yoda instead.
And even for F2P players (which I am not) its at least equally painful if not worse. Time and ressources like crystal income from arena are very limited. They can barely make it from one meta to the next one. And getting non-GL counters up and running took at least a few months of progress. And now they are stuck with okayish characters while they could have progressed towards a GL with that.
The only group of players who are not severely hurt by these nerfs are the casual whales. Those who don't care about the competitive elements of this game, but still dump a lot of money on it. I don't have the numbers on those, but these can't be more than 5-10% of the spending players in this game.
Here is my take on players motivation to keep playing the game:
1. PVE: Offer challenging content that motivates you to progress your roster to get better results in. Have hard, but doable fights that you want to progress in. Both as a solo player and as an alliance.
2. PVP: Allow players to compete against each other. Arena as a daily climb and incentive to chase the latest meta, GAC to compete against other players with a comparable roster (this is already not working well) and TWs to compete as a guild. Trivialising TWs and GAC by making GLs unbeatable removes at least 50% of the skill ceiling and strategical depth. Is this really your goal CG? **** on every player who does not have all GLs and the latest Meta? These players already have a big advantage. If you can query this kind of information - how much revenue is generated from players who have all GLs and the latest meta compared to those who don't have all GLs? Is it really worth throwing everybody else under the bus?
3. Community: I am in a nice and competitive guild. We have some whales, we have some highly competitive F2P players and many in between that. Spending a little when its worth it. Some players stop playing the game due to various reasons. We have never faced such a big amount of players quitting the game as we have now. And most of them are not F2P players. Even if they were F2P - you need these kind of players to keep the spenders happy. As a spender your investment feels all the more better if that gives you the edge to beat a competitive F2P player. But it is super unsatisfying if it is no longer a challenge.
As a conclusion:
Embrace that there are non-GL counters. It really is not a bad concept. Keep Vader as a skill based counter who can consistantly beat most GL comps. Only really expensive comps that take away from other strong meta teams should be able to defend against a strong Vader. Also keep a few other teams out there that can go against a few GL comps. Like ITs beating SEE nicely if you put him on defense without Malak. And not to forget the high cost - high reward Jedi counters. These teams were something to strife for. Getting them working occasionally was not very difficult. But getting them to run consistantly against all different GL comps out there was hard. There is a good reason why top guilds did not use Vader as a regular counter against Rey. It is really hard to get Vader running consistantly against all kind of Rey comps out there. And certain modding focusses could mess up your strategy if you got it running against a regular comp.
Non-GL counters involve at least 2-3 different teams countering each GL with various formats and compositions (not mentioning the gear levels and mods). So comparing to accounts farming only the GL requirements with little wiggle room for other toons, the variations that you can farm with non-GL toons are at least 10x more. Plus how to combine your collection and use it efficiently in GAC WAS almost an art form. This part of the game enjoyment apparently is gone...
Now, it's just use this faction, use that faction. That's not fun, I won't be able to use MY roster in unique ways, that is whale or fail.
All you people saying CG is trying to ruin the game....That is not the motivation at all. Every action they take is calculated to maximize revenue, either short term or long term. So if they say "these changes are good for the long term health of the game" just simply switch "health of the game" with "revenue". They think these changes will be good for long term revenue. Health of the game IS revenue to them.
I think they were having trouble creating new characters that people would want to whale on. You throw up a new shiny toy and youtuberXY has a video 2 hours later showing Darth Vader and Wat culling them out...well, that affects revenue...I mean.."health of the game". You need to have people motivated to spend because the new characters are difference makers. That's why they acted so quickly to buff Executor.
We all feel squeezed because that is exactly what is happening. Getting squeezed for more money so they can maximize revenue.
There is a breaking point that exists where if you squeeze too hard people just quit playing and the whole thing implodes. Maybe they just crossed that barrier, but they won't do it intentionally. This game makes serious money.
Totally agree with that. They are pushing the limit, finding how much can they squeeze players without affecting their revenue. And this will keep on scalating until the breaking point you mention, but I'm not sure we are there yet. Because this is Star Wars, their fans tend to tolerate more this kind of practices. I really think things will keep on getting worse. And when we finally reach the breaking point, they (EA) will probably just move to another game, just as they usually do. Squeeze, milk, discard. Welcome to the mobile game industry.
I wrote a whole constructive spiel... but based on the most recent changes, I feel they would, at best, be noted, but ignored.
... changes like adding (and then buffing) Executor to ruin the playability of fleets (which was already meh)... and then nerfing the bejeezus out if the better toons make me despair.
Keep it up, and it'll be chilled & moderate players like myself just quitting. There'd be no 'If you keep doing this, I'll quit' from me.... I'll just wake up in the morning, and think 'What's the point!!??'... and then go about by life.
Nerfing now hells them create kits for future characters that would have otherwise been a problem.
I love and miss old GAS and JKL. Absolutely best characters. Mini GL’s.
But left on course the devs would eventually paint themselves in a corner. This gives them breathing room. Plus they do want to make GLs only killable by another. And this I also agree with.
As much as I also loved all the GL counters I at the same time found it devalued my GL investment. That can hurt spending if people don’t feel value from a purchase.
A company continually in profit won’t care. When the plug is pulled, the coffers will have been well stocked.
Yes and no. They wanna switch around some stuff, I mean I get it, but they went too far IMO. Wat, Vader and GAS are worse now, even against non GL’s. JKL’s damage is significantly worse and as a result JML’s team is suffering because of it. I can’t wait to see how these changes negatively impact conquest on top of the asinine changes they put in place for season 7.
If you wanted to make GL only beatable by other legends modify the Galactic Legend unique so that it reads "If the opposing team does not contain a GL this unit gain damage inmunity that connot be prevented..."
Simpler solutions are always better.
Did you read Maul's kit? Its hard enough to understand it for the character alone. Not to speak of all the interactions with the LV team that he will be useful in. Or 2 years down the road where you need to memorize every detail of that 5 pager of a description.
@Sewpot It can also hurt spending if people do not feel confident what they are buying will retain its value down the road. Once C.G. opened the door to nerfing characters at their whim.. consumer confidence drops significantly. Honestly I do not believe for one second they were painting themselves into a corner. This was all about GL's getting beat by non GL's. This is just wave one of the nerfs that are incoming, trust me. Once Dark Trooper gets Accelerated.. watch him also get the nerf axe.
I hope you are waiting seated.
Vader is a true icon. The nerf to him.alone is really, really bad.