Sure, your ranking does not change, but your ranking does not determine your division, the boundary for K1 is 3610. Eventually, the 50th ranked player in world will be 3605 and K2, unless squish is changed.
Yes, they're failing with K1. Acknowledged.
As to ranking, let's take an example. Suppose we're trying to keep K1 to the Top 2% of the player-base. And after a GAC Season, about 3% of the players have a Skill Rating value over 3610. To get back to 2%, you've have to shave that bottom 1% off into K2. Sadge.
And then you linearly map these player's Skill Ratings over to new Skill Ratings so that the unfortunate 1% ends up under 3610, and pull down the values of the Top 2% down closer to 3610 as well. What I think of as "The Squish" (YMMV).
If keeping the percentages as originally laid out is a goal, this would be an obvious way to do it. And we really don't know it isn't. The shrinking of K1 is either an error or intentional, if this if what CG is attempting to accomplish.
We do know, the player base is not shrinking anywhere near the rate K1 is. Players entering GAC is on a very slow decline, I dont have exact numbers but it is somewhere from 400k down to 380k ish. Meanwhile K1 has shrunk from 20k to 1,2k.
If CG’s intention is a 50/50 win/loss rate how would kyber 1 grow and for them to then squish you back?
People climbing into it from lower Divisions.
Players maintaining a 5-4 record every season cannot remain in K1. This has been demonstrated.
I guess we'd need to see what percentage of the player base end up with a Skill Rating over 3610 at the end of a Season, before the next Season's Squish happens.
If CG’s intention is a 50/50 win/loss rate how would kyber 1 grow and for them to then squish you back?
People climbing into it from lower Divisions.
Players maintaining a 5-4 record every season cannot remain in K1. This has been demonstrated.
I guess we'd need to see what percentage of the player base end up with a Skill Rating over 3610 at the end of a Season, before the next Season's Squish happens.
I still don’t get why you’re blind to what’s going on?
If CG’s intention is a 50/50 win/loss rate how would kyber 1 grow and for them to then squish you back?
People climbing into it from lower Divisions.
Players maintaining a 5-4 record every season cannot remain in K1. This has been demonstrated.
I guess we'd need to see what percentage of the player base end up with a Skill Rating over 3610 at the end of a Season, before the next Season's Squish happens.
I guess the point is nothing says K1's cutoff has to be 3610. The only threshold CG publicly stated was K1=10% of Kyber, and Kyber=some percentage of all gac players (I forgot what the actual figure was). So it's the cutoff, currently 3610, which ought to have been adjusted according to the gac population size. Unless CG abandoned the percentage system. If that's the case, we were never told.
If CG’s intention is a 50/50 win/loss rate how would kyber 1 grow and for them to then squish you back?
People climbing into it from lower Divisions.
Players maintaining a 5-4 record every season cannot remain in K1. This has been demonstrated.
I guess we'd need to see what percentage of the player base end up with a Skill Rating over 3610 at the end of a Season, before the next Season's Squish happens.
I still don’t get why you’re blind to what’s going on?
K1 used to be 20k players. Now it’s <2k.
Do you really need to get further evidence?
Yup. I've already acknowledged there's an issue with K1.
If CG’s intention is a 50/50 win/loss rate how would kyber 1 grow and for them to then squish you back?
People climbing into it from lower Divisions.
Players maintaining a 5-4 record every season cannot remain in K1. This has been demonstrated.
I guess we'd need to see what percentage of the player base end up with a Skill Rating over 3610 at the end of a Season, before the next Season's Squish happens.
I guess the point is nothing says K1's cutoff has to be 3610. The only threshold CG publicly stated was K1=10% of Kyber, and Kyber=some percentage of all gac players (I forgot what the actual figure was). So it's the cutoff, currently 3610, which ought to have been adjusted according to the gac population size. Unless CG abandoned the percentage system. If that's the case, we were never told.
And I believe it's due to that "3610" value (and all the other Division SR ranges) not changing that we have a Squish in the first place.
So then you’re making a semantic argument? No league is close to the just under 62k that is the target according to cgs stated goal. And no leagues division distribution comes close to the 10/25/30/25/10 goal. Who cares what you label the problem or why the problem actually exists. It is a problem that has steadily gotten worse and not because cg is tinkering each season with the algorithm used. The effect of the algorithm never matched cgs stated goal and they’ve known this for while but presumably haven’t come up with a cost effective fix that doesn’t favor the player base too much.
Edit: spacing for images.
There's a Division with only 5 players in it? Not sure I understand your images.
That last topic was what the solution would be were there no Squish: Changing the Skill Rating ranges instead. Either would work.
That Carbonite looks to be growing is interesting, since it somewhat makes sense with inactive accounts, and those that skip/join GAC, dropping. At some point all of Carbonite 5 would fill up with these, and start spilling upward. Perhaps the High/Low swapping mechanic is how Carbonite can grow over 20%. And how other Leagues end up shrinking, and dropping from their original percentages.
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
I will bring your concerns to the appropriate team
Wow, 2 years ago i put this squish nonsense on the bug list couse i couldnt understand why i was demoted despite winning..and now the flaw in ranking system will be adressed....after 2 years....fix the design and there wont be concerns...
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
These things may well be true, but these weren’t the questions I was asking.
Hopefully more clearly, does the game continue to track this player as though they have the 3810 SR as shown in the screenshot above? If so, does the game still consider them to be ‘in’ K1 and if so is it allocating one lot of the daily k1 rewards to this player? It may be that in the back-end that we can’t see they have been relegated and actually have an SR around ~1600 or some other low number.
Post edited by Notthatguyfrombefore on
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
@CG_Tusken_Meathead to give some context to your raising this with the team , I started this season ranked 383. The person in my bracket that went 0-3 after week one was relegated to Kyber 2, having also started with a rank similar to mine(within 8). Surely this can't be considered "in line" with what was originally communicated when the system was introduced (K1 would be top 10% of Kyber).
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
Not sure any of this is true. The squish happens sometime later today, but before GAC actually starts. Entirely possible there will be people not signed up when the squish happens, so the system will have to include even those that aren't signed up. Maybe it only squishes those that signed up last week, but it definitely can't just do players currently signed up.
Also, the inbox items are sent at the same time to all players every day (in the case of GAC rewards). So even though the player isn't logging in, there are still things sent to their inbox. When they log in they will see them, though most things expire after 3 days.
I will bring your concerns to the appropriate team
While it's nice to get a CG-team response in this thread, the implication that the appropriate team isn't already well aware of this is pretty disappointing
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
Not sure any of this is true. The squish happens sometime later today, but before GAC actually starts. .
Squish happens right before the start of a new season, this is week 2 of the current season so no squish this week.
I will bring your concerns to the appropriate team
While it's nice to get a CG-team response in this thread, the implication that the appropriate team isn't already well aware of this is pretty disappointing
Also a smaller issue with it is people who quit before the change are sitting in kyber one still you only drop if you quit after gac change occured
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
Not sure any of this is true. The squish happens sometime later today, but before GAC actually starts. .
Squish happens right before the start of a new season, this is week 2 of the current season so no squish this week.
Oh okay. I guess I thought it was earlier in the day.
Edit: Also completely forgot that the season started last week
I will bring your concerns to the appropriate team
While it's nice to get a CG-team response in this thread, the implication that the appropriate team isn't already well aware of this is pretty disappointing
I think if the solution were simple, it would have already been implemented. We also don't know for sure that CG actually sees this as a problem considering they've maintained their position up to this point - which is to say they haven't taken a position on the matter, at least not publicly.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
I think if the solution were simple, it would have already been implemented.
I fail to see how adjusting the league/division brackets to meet CG's stated goals for distribution could possibly be difficult. But I've been wrong before ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We also don't know for sure that CG actually sees this as a problem considering they've maintained their position up to this point - which is to say they haven't taken a position on the matter, at least not publicly.
This is the main issue I have. The system is not working as they said it should. It has warranted an official response for quite some time now.
Replies
We do know, the player base is not shrinking anywhere near the rate K1 is. Players entering GAC is on a very slow decline, I dont have exact numbers but it is somewhere from 400k down to 380k ish. Meanwhile K1 has shrunk from 20k to 1,2k.
K1 used to be 20k players. Now it’s <2k.
Do you really need to get further evidence?
I guess the point is nothing says K1's cutoff has to be 3610. The only threshold CG publicly stated was K1=10% of Kyber, and Kyber=some percentage of all gac players (I forgot what the actual figure was). So it's the cutoff, currently 3610, which ought to have been adjusted according to the gac population size. Unless CG abandoned the percentage system. If that's the case, we were never told.
Yup. I've already acknowledged there's an issue with K1.
Edit: spacing for images.
That last topic was what the solution would be were there no Squish: Changing the Skill Rating ranges instead. Either would work.
That Carbonite looks to be growing is interesting, since it somewhat makes sense with inactive accounts, and those that skip/join GAC, dropping. At some point all of Carbonite 5 would fill up with these, and start spilling upward. Perhaps the High/Low swapping mechanic is how Carbonite can grow over 20%. And how other Leagues end up shrinking, and dropping from their original percentages.
FYI for more info, see Taliana's posts: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/261649/february-squish-were-under-2k-in-kyber-1-we-win
This is an old guildmate who hasn't played in over a year yet gets to stay in kyber 1 making the squish worse. There have to be others
You've said this when previous concerns were brought up. I won't hold my breath.
They aren't actually in kyber 1. Their profile is just showing the last place they were. Only players who join a GAC show up in the numbers.
If you don't join you lose sr at 2 losses per non joined round. So over a year with 3 weeks on 1 week off, that's 39 non joins. Lets call it -60 points per week for 2 losses (should be more while their in the kyber range but drops over time, I think) would have them lose about 2340 SR, which would update next time they log in. So if they started playing again they'll be down in Carbonite. Then another matchmaking thread gets started.
That may be so, but what daily rewards are being sent to them? Are k1 daily rewards landing in their inbox everyday even though they never login? If so accounts like these could easily be affecting the squish calculations.
Wow, 2 years ago i put this squish nonsense on the bug list couse i couldnt understand why i was demoted despite winning..and now the flaw in ranking system will be adressed....after 2 years....fix the design and there wont be concerns...
The squish happens to all the signed up players. Not logged in accounts do not sign up.
Inbox things only arrive when you log in, and only if you log in within a set amount of days of the reward being sent. If that player logged in today, they would not receive 365 days of grand arena crystal daily rewards.
These things may well be true, but these weren’t the questions I was asking.
Hopefully more clearly, does the game continue to track this player as though they have the 3810 SR as shown in the screenshot above? If so, does the game still consider them to be ‘in’ K1 and if so is it allocating one lot of the daily k1 rewards to this player? It may be that in the back-end that we can’t see they have been relegated and actually have an SR around ~1600 or some other low number.
Not sure any of this is true. The squish happens sometime later today, but before GAC actually starts. Entirely possible there will be people not signed up when the squish happens, so the system will have to include even those that aren't signed up. Maybe it only squishes those that signed up last week, but it definitely can't just do players currently signed up.
Also, the inbox items are sent at the same time to all players every day (in the case of GAC rewards). So even though the player isn't logging in, there are still things sent to their inbox. When they log in they will see them, though most things expire after 3 days.
While it's nice to get a CG-team response in this thread, the implication that the appropriate team isn't already well aware of this is pretty disappointing
Squish happens right before the start of a new season, this is week 2 of the current season so no squish this week.
They're aware.
Oh okay. I guess I thought it was earlier in the day.
Edit: Also completely forgot that the season started last week
That would also be quite disappointing.
Zaggly
I fail to see how adjusting the league/division brackets to meet CG's stated goals for distribution could possibly be difficult. But I've been wrong before ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is the main issue I have. The system is not working as they said it should. It has warranted an official response for quite some time now.