I’ve a question for you. What guilds have you been monitoring to come to this insane conclusion? We’re a guild of 122 million with plenty of Jedi Rey teams and zeta Finns, but are on the 5th tier of the sith raid . So what you’re changing and the reasons why are utter nonsense!!!!!! You’ve clearly not tested anything properly. Minimal changes, fifty percent difference to the expose capabilities is not minimal. When you announce things, be specific please, because the dialect you use is very misleading.
So, let me understand.... the raid is too hard for 95% guilds, and u nerf the better team (u said it is) for a better theorycrafting? theorycrafting on what? all the mechanics, except expose, Dm and stahn loop are unuseful with this tenacity loop...so what we have to do to finish this raid?
and finish the raid for what? we did t6 and get equip i had 5k pieces.....(i was 8th, not 48th)
there are people here that spent a lot of money to get JTR at the first shot, and u nerf her on ALL RAIDS? peharps u prefer a game with 1000 people spending 100€ at week and not 1M people spendi 10€ a month, is that your choice?
This is the start of the end for your profit margins if you continue to tamper with this game so invasively. I will never buy another crystal or panic buy a character pack again. I’m free to play with the occasional purchase. Not anymore , I’m solely free to play now. Well done for completely putting off your customers.
Well I am happy. I will now be spending slightly less (100% less) on this game because there is a moderate (110%) chance that EA will do EA and change the cost benefit analysis after I have spent money.
In all seriousness, I started spending less after the monthly crystal pack vanished but I still purchased the occasional $ new character pack. I was just about to buy the Darth Nihulus, Sith Trooper and Sith Assassin pack (seems like a pretty decent deal for the shards and gear) plus the Scion pack. Thank you for making that an easy choice. Now I will go spend my limited fun money elsewhere and play this game for free because I like the chaps and ladies in my guild.
Enjoy that last red cent I paid you and thank you for making this such an easy decision.
Is it true some of the top guilds did the beta testing for this raid? Did they pass on any issues regarding expose, st han and the other neutered strategies before launch? Its been implied in some game changer videos already posted on youtube that CG was aware that expose might be a problem before launch. Is this the case?
Is it true some of the top guilds did the beta testing for this raid? Did they pass on any issues regarding expose, st han and the other neutered strategies before launch? Its been implied in some game changer videos already posted on youtube that CG was aware that expose might be a problem before launch. Is this the case?
The expose :
It's either a plain straight lie and insulting the players. If they knew or conceive the expose was "broken", why would fix it a couple days after they brand new toy has been released ? (Without proper testing)
Either they just choose with a very poor communication to suck it down or throats at the worst moment.
I find it overly dishonest when you are talking about "5%" Max Health reduction in phase 1. We all know that it is truely <1% reduction.
What you did is: (in Tier6)
-Reduced the damage of the expose to its 50%
-Then reduced it even more to its 99%
[0.04%*0.5*0.99= 0.0198%]
-Reduced the total health pool from ~600M to 595M
- This means the avarage normal attack [~15k/hit = 0.015%/hit] was "increased" to [0.0157%/hit] for phase 1, which is [0.0151%/hit] for the whole raid.
- Until now about 15000 times of expose were needed to beat the raid, now it is ~33000 expose.
- Before 40000 normal hits needed for the raid, now it is 39600.
- Before,for a 95M GP guild needed 5-6 days to clear T6, now it will be over 10days.
I get that, we will get new teams, strategies for the raid.
But then, why do you release the raid BEFORE and why do you make us hate the new content?
What is the point of making something annoyingly hard?
Until now, the only strategy for Sith raid was "Hit and Run"
Now you nerfed the damage output.
Brilliant.
I have JTR, worked diligently and paid good money to get her. Now this. I dropped out of my highly active guild and now occasionally log in. Looking for another game. Sad, really... I was pretty excited about this new raid.
And once they drop JTR (lets not pretend she was always coming back this month) and money keeps coming in they'll feel justified about ignoring many of the complaints in here.
Yea, this expose nerf is too far. As a long time supporter of this game. I'm very upset with this change as I worked very hard and invested in characters to get JTRey. So now my 8 million run on HAAT will be like 4 million roughly? 5 million? That matters to me. The new raid is horribly broken and your sites are set in the wrong direction.
I'm definitely going to put a "slight nerf" to my spending habits. Maybe you should look them up.
My complaint is simple; new raid is not fun and I don't care about rewards because they aren't in line with the time and effort for them, which means I don't want to play it or even think about it anymore.
I love the way the devs stopped responding after ignoring the challenge gear drop question 3 times in a row.
I love how the community is basically doing the dev work for them, but devs cannot use it because if they let the peasants (us) control the bourgeoisie (them) even for a single occasion it will start an avalanche
But the thing I love the most is seeing honest, good people here going F2P. Every game I played in my life I was an occasional spender, and I know the value of paying customers to these games. Stopping the cash flow is the only way to get results.
So any team that relies on landing debuffs of any kind to be effective is still completely and utterly useless, got it! What a great update @CG_RyDiggs!
I’ll enjoy theorycrafting which one of my DS all G12 squads will get to do 5% of the damage of any RJT squad.
I've had a very long detailed post in the General Philosophy thread that is pretty much lost in the mix. I guess it doesn't matter, but I would like to kind of propose a question/scenario that we're all kind of expecting.
In the other thread many people suggested that part of the plan of reducing Rey's effectiveness is you are essentially creating an in game "problem" that would need to be solved. In the past these various "problems" have been solved by creating a select number of premium characters as the solution. Having a hard time beating Heroic Rancor? Here's Commander Luke Sywalker. HAAT getting you down? Try this new Jedi Training Rey.
I hope you get the point. But, here comes the dilemma. IF (as many of suspect) skeleton key character is created to solve this Sith Raid you will in effect be violating your own "General Philosophy." Another character that prompts panic farming, but proves to be invaluable in the Sith Raid will certainly further damage your credibility here. First off, players will quickly flock to this new character, and damage the precious "creativity" that you're claiming to try and foster. Second, you'll have gone through this whole expose rework fiasco for no reason...needlessly upsetting so many players for no reason at all.
Let's face it. One day you'll create some character or mechanic that will blow Rey and her exposed out of the water. It's inevitable as we've seen the power creep in this game is a real thing. So instead of asking us to take a "wait and see approach" maybe take your own advice. One day Rey's dominance will pass. When that happens you better be ready to nerf the next big thing everyone is using, then the next, then the next. Because your players will always overuse what works the best. Why use a hammer to screw in a nail? It doesn't make sense. Right now you are setting a very dangerous precedent, and to you're player base it's one that's actually scary. You're telling us to buy and use the next best thing, but then if your data says we overuse that thing it will just be taken away from us without regard to our opinion, time, or money.
Terrible changes. But congrats. You managed to make a boring raid even more boring. Rewards are terrible and not worth our time. At least give us the option to sim the raid even if we do less damage.
I’m sure JTR returns now so ppl will get her before they realize these changes. Either EA plans on releasing a bunch of p2p characters specifically for this raid the next few months (that ppl won’t buy since they’ll probably be nerfed) or they’re trying to get us to stop playing this game. If it’s the second they definitely succeeded
Why Change “Expose”?
We’ve been actively monitoring play patterns, player behavior, and community sentiment since the release of the Raid.
lmao, did you really just include "community sentiment" as to why you changed expose? That is truly hilarious.
I was kinda hopefull, with the emphasis on "kinda", but I'm dissapointed nontheless.
JTR is still mandatory, in a way even more mandatory since she does less damage. Can't figure out how that's a good thing, or what "issue" it was supposed to resolve.
The 1.25% health reduction is not even worth mentioning. It's about the equivalent of the difference between 3(!) JTR team pre-nerf and 3(!) JTR team post-nerf (my math could be off). Seems like it's a good will gesture completely missing it's mark.
Speaking of a good will gesture, why not just improve the rewards? Seriously, why not? Simply removing challenge gear just seemed like an all around good plan with little to no negative side effects for the players, nor for the developers.
I guess the demand for a lvl cap, gear cap increase and more OP characters has grown a bit though, so atleast the underlying goal has been achieved. If history has taught me anything, it's going to work out just fine for ea/cg. The playerbase rages now, demands refunds etc, but once those OP characters start hitting the stores players are going to buy them.
Related, but kind of as a side note, I’m a ftp ($20 gift card is all) 2.6m gp player. I’ve been on this game since day 2. I’m now finished with this game & any game with this model.
Here’s why:
-In the same way I refuse to pay for Xbox Live, this almost seems like a subscription based game. Keep funneling money or fall way behind. (Sunk cost fallacy anyone?) Or in Live’s case, use it constantly or feel like I’m wasting money.
-You don’t know what you’re getting with this game. Between packs & these devs...They can change in an instant (as you’ve seen) or drop the game as a whole (Star Wars Force Collection anyone?). I feel for you JTR people.
-Everything is about profit. I’d much rather buy a console game & know what I’m getting & never have it reduced or discarded.
I know this may seem shallow, especially with most games heading/headed in the “in app purchases” route, but you have to put your foot down somewhere. This ftp’s time investment is too great for the reward. (i.e. using 100 crystals to get 3 chewie vet shards, lol).
To you faithful players. Good luck. I think the devs try, but they’re all constrained to the figures pouring in...to which I’ll never contribute another gift card.
I want to give my piece on this, regardless if gets read or not. I want to think on the positive side! A Raid shouldn’t be beatable in the first days of its release, it should take the community some time to master it, I HOPE the secret of this Raid is behind existing characters synergy that we haven’t figured out, like be for the HAAT, who would have used princess Zody team or Chirpatine or any of the initial key teams to tackle it down... What I’m really praying for is that the mastery of this Raid isn’t behind 50 RJT in a guild nor a possible level cap increase and/or 7 dot mods...
So I’ll keep trying new character combination until something succeeds!
So please @CG_RyDiggs At least give us a hint that this Raid can be mastered with current characters, lvls and mods in the game!
The negative side is that this nerf is on a ‘New’ character that as well is part of the Meta and one of the most used in the top of the arena, so this should have been caught in the testing and not launching this way...
The problem here is greed. CG basically allowed everything to be bought - mods, credit, gears, shards, etc. - in the various stores or through cards with crystals when it got revamped. Whales whaled on it and have massively strengthened since, maxing out everything shortly after release.
So it's to no surprise that whale guilds could already finish the Heroic Raid and that the gap between whales and non whales is at its widest.
I can care less about the sith raid. Its more than just difficult. I get it should be a challenge but when guilds like mine of 100m gp cant even come close to beating it then its not difficult it’s impossible. Now u go and change expose in all raids. Finn zeta didnt work in sith raid. Actually they was worst team to use. Now tht could be the case in haat as well. Im sure my guild will cont to beat haat with no issues but smaller guilds tht just started to clear haat or was on cusp of doin so are prob hosed here the most. Seems to me only thing u needed to chg was the sthan infinite loop. I didnt see any rjt soloin raid on her own so chgs to her an other resistance seems like a useless change imo. To beat the sith raid now u basically want all 50 members of all guilds to have all 130 plus chars at g12 an all abilities max to be able beat this on heroic. Yeh that definitely seems plausible. Good job swgoh good job.
With so many negative feedbacks, why did they went this way?
You could have reduced expose by 25% and most would have been happy. 50% is a bit much.
I don’t think many would be happy with any JTR/expose nerf unless the raid is properly balanced so that lots of teams are able to do similar damage to JTR teams. It has been said before, and I will say it again. It’s not that JTR is exceptional, it’s that other compositions cannot compete.
The problem here is greed. CG basically allowed everything to be bought - mods, credit, gears, shards, etc. - in the various stores or through cards with crystals when it got revamped. Whales whaled on it and have massively strengthened since, maxing out everything shortly after release.
So it's to no surprise that whale guilds could already finish the Heroic Raid and that the gap between whales and non whales is at its widest.
i dont think so thre is some secret. now is whole raid Raw power nothing more.
btw 7dot mods and ship gear will be soon, why you think they allow MODs buying for fleet curency? they need you to spend whole your bank on 5 dots mods.
btw next big thing will be star destroyer raid i bet my Rose Tico character for that...
I personally want to thank them for this change. It made me look at how much money I have spent on this game since JTR came out the first time. Making older raids "more challenging" with no change in rewards again makes no sense.
Thank you for saving me money
I’ve seen several, hopeful/positive posts about this change. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not trolls/bots. CG is not giving us an opportunity to be creative.
The player base is MUCH more sophisticated than it was when HAAT came out. They have tested loads of teams in DSTB, LSTB, TW, HAAT, and Rancor. I truly do not believe there is a chirpatine or princess zody waiting to be discovered in the existing content. CG wants players to buy/farm NEW content to beat this raid. They just won’t admit it.
We're trying to let you know what we do and be more transparent on why we do it when we can. If this still isn't meeting expectation, know we'll keep working to do so as best we're able. As always, we'll be considering the overall long-term good of the game in every change and addition we make.
Tks for the support!
RT
It's not meeting expectations. You got a week of feedback ranging from outright rage, to insightful commentary, and significantly superior suggestions.
Then the design team made all the changes they said would with absolutely no adjustment or introspection.
I appreciate the long post about why, but it contained no appreciation of the issues players raised. What occured over this last week can in no way be classified as "listening to the players". You said what you'd do, we got upset, and then you did it anyway.
Right now you do not have my support.
Bringing this back.
I feel this represents my thoughts exactly.
Like and Quote if you agree. His original post is on page 4 7th post down.
Replies
and finish the raid for what? we did t6 and get equip i had 5k pieces.....(i was 8th, not 48th)
there are people here that spent a lot of money to get JTR at the first shot, and u nerf her on ALL RAIDS? peharps u prefer a game with 1000 people spending 100€ at week and not 1M people spendi 10€ a month, is that your choice?
In all seriousness, I started spending less after the monthly crystal pack vanished but I still purchased the occasional $ new character pack. I was just about to buy the Darth Nihulus, Sith Trooper and Sith Assassin pack (seems like a pretty decent deal for the shards and gear) plus the Scion pack. Thank you for making that an easy choice. Now I will go spend my limited fun money elsewhere and play this game for free because I like the chaps and ladies in my guild.
Enjoy that last red cent I paid you and thank you for making this such an easy decision.
@CG_Kozispoon
@EA_Jesse
@CG_Carrie
@CG_Dan
@EA_MindTricks
@CG_RyDiggs
The expose :
It's either a plain straight lie and insulting the players. If they knew or conceive the expose was "broken", why would fix it a couple days after they brand new toy has been released ? (Without proper testing)
Either they just choose with a very poor communication to suck it down or throats at the worst moment.
Seriously, it makes me sick.
I find it overly dishonest when you are talking about "5%" Max Health reduction in phase 1. We all know that it is truely <1% reduction.
What you did is: (in Tier6)
-Reduced the damage of the expose to its 50%
-Then reduced it even more to its 99%
[0.04%*0.5*0.99= 0.0198%]
-Reduced the total health pool from ~600M to 595M
- This means the avarage normal attack [~15k/hit = 0.015%/hit] was "increased" to [0.0157%/hit] for phase 1, which is [0.0151%/hit] for the whole raid.
- Until now about 15000 times of expose were needed to beat the raid, now it is ~33000 expose.
- Before 40000 normal hits needed for the raid, now it is 39600.
- Before,for a 95M GP guild needed 5-6 days to clear T6, now it will be over 10days.
I get that, we will get new teams, strategies for the raid.
But then, why do you release the raid BEFORE and why do you make us hate the new content?
What is the point of making something annoyingly hard?
Until now, the only strategy for Sith raid was "Hit and Run"
Now you nerfed the damage output.
Brilliant.
The only thing that results in change is money.
I'm definitely going to put a "slight nerf" to my spending habits. Maybe you should look them up.
Tks for your support!
I love how the community is basically doing the dev work for them, but devs cannot use it because if they let the peasants (us) control the bourgeoisie (them) even for a single occasion it will start an avalanche
But the thing I love the most is seeing honest, good people here going F2P. Every game I played in my life I was an occasional spender, and I know the value of paying customers to these games. Stopping the cash flow is the only way to get results.
I’ll enjoy theorycrafting which one of my DS all G12 squads will get to do 5% of the damage of any RJT squad.
In the other thread many people suggested that part of the plan of reducing Rey's effectiveness is you are essentially creating an in game "problem" that would need to be solved. In the past these various "problems" have been solved by creating a select number of premium characters as the solution. Having a hard time beating Heroic Rancor? Here's Commander Luke Sywalker. HAAT getting you down? Try this new Jedi Training Rey.
I hope you get the point. But, here comes the dilemma. IF (as many of suspect) skeleton key character is created to solve this Sith Raid you will in effect be violating your own "General Philosophy." Another character that prompts panic farming, but proves to be invaluable in the Sith Raid will certainly further damage your credibility here. First off, players will quickly flock to this new character, and damage the precious "creativity" that you're claiming to try and foster. Second, you'll have gone through this whole expose rework fiasco for no reason...needlessly upsetting so many players for no reason at all.
Let's face it. One day you'll create some character or mechanic that will blow Rey and her exposed out of the water. It's inevitable as we've seen the power creep in this game is a real thing. So instead of asking us to take a "wait and see approach" maybe take your own advice. One day Rey's dominance will pass. When that happens you better be ready to nerf the next big thing everyone is using, then the next, then the next. Because your players will always overuse what works the best. Why use a hammer to screw in a nail? It doesn't make sense. Right now you are setting a very dangerous precedent, and to you're player base it's one that's actually scary. You're telling us to buy and use the next best thing, but then if your data says we overuse that thing it will just be taken away from us without regard to our opinion, time, or money.
I’m sure JTR returns now so ppl will get her before they realize these changes. Either EA plans on releasing a bunch of p2p characters specifically for this raid the next few months (that ppl won’t buy since they’ll probably be nerfed) or they’re trying to get us to stop playing this game. If it’s the second they definitely succeeded
I was kinda hopefull, with the emphasis on "kinda", but I'm dissapointed nontheless.
- JTR is still mandatory, in a way even more mandatory since she does less damage. Can't figure out how that's a good thing, or what "issue" it was supposed to resolve.
- The 1.25% health reduction is not even worth mentioning. It's about the equivalent of the difference between 3(!) JTR team pre-nerf and 3(!) JTR team post-nerf (my math could be off). Seems like it's a good will gesture completely missing it's mark.
- Speaking of a good will gesture, why not just improve the rewards? Seriously, why not? Simply removing challenge gear just seemed like an all around good plan with little to no negative side effects for the players, nor for the developers.
I guess the demand for a lvl cap, gear cap increase and more OP characters has grown a bit though, so atleast the underlying goal has been achieved. If history has taught me anything, it's going to work out just fine for ea/cg. The playerbase rages now, demands refunds etc, but once those OP characters start hitting the stores players are going to buy them.Here’s why:
-In the same way I refuse to pay for Xbox Live, this almost seems like a subscription based game. Keep funneling money or fall way behind. (Sunk cost fallacy anyone?) Or in Live’s case, use it constantly or feel like I’m wasting money.
-You don’t know what you’re getting with this game. Between packs & these devs...They can change in an instant (as you’ve seen) or drop the game as a whole (Star Wars Force Collection anyone?). I feel for you JTR people.
-Everything is about profit. I’d much rather buy a console game & know what I’m getting & never have it reduced or discarded.
I know this may seem shallow, especially with most games heading/headed in the “in app purchases” route, but you have to put your foot down somewhere. This ftp’s time investment is too great for the reward. (i.e. using 100 crystals to get 3 chewie vet shards, lol).
To you faithful players. Good luck. I think the devs try, but they’re all constrained to the figures pouring in...to which I’ll never contribute another gift card.
So I’ll keep trying new character combination until something succeeds!
So please @CG_RyDiggs At least give us a hint that this Raid can be mastered with current characters, lvls and mods in the game!
The negative side is that this nerf is on a ‘New’ character that as well is part of the Meta and one of the most used in the top of the arena, so this should have been caught in the testing and not launching this way...
So it's to no surprise that whale guilds could already finish the Heroic Raid and that the gap between whales and non whales is at its widest.
You could have reduced expose by 25% and most would have been happy. 50% is a bit much.
I don’t think many would be happy with any JTR/expose nerf unless the raid is properly balanced so that lots of teams are able to do similar damage to JTR teams. It has been said before, and I will say it again. It’s not that JTR is exceptional, it’s that other compositions cannot compete.
i dont think so thre is some secret. now is whole raid Raw power nothing more.
btw 7dot mods and ship gear will be soon, why you think they allow MODs buying for fleet curency? they need you to spend whole your bank on 5 dots mods.
btw next big thing will be star destroyer raid i bet my Rose Tico character for that...
DEVs never do something w/o reason NEVER
Thank you for saving me money
The player base is MUCH more sophisticated than it was when HAAT came out. They have tested loads of teams in DSTB, LSTB, TW, HAAT, and Rancor. I truly do not believe there is a chirpatine or princess zody waiting to be discovered in the existing content. CG wants players to buy/farm NEW content to beat this raid. They just won’t admit it.
Bringing this back.
I feel this represents my thoughts exactly.
Like and Quote if you agree. His original post is on page 4 7th post down.
Just have to deal with it, very entertaining.
Not convinced