yeah, mmmkay, I am just reading a big fat middle finger from the devs on this one...
50% expose nerf is not "slight change"
5% health only in P1 is not even useful
@TVF please dont post gifs, especially in all 60 FPS glory. A lot of people are complaining how it eats their bandwidth since they use their mobile connections
First I've ever heard anyone complain and I'm certainly not the only one who posts gifs. Heck, a recently departed member of CG did it constantly.
We're trying to let you know what we do and be more transparent on why we do it when we can. If this still isn't meeting expectation, know we'll keep working to do so as best we're able. As always, we'll be considering the overall long-term good of the game in every change and addition we make.
Tks for the support!
RT
It's not meeting expectations. You got a week of feedback ranging from outright rage, to insightful commentary, and significantly superior suggestions.
Then the design team made all the changes they said would with absolutely no adjustment or introspection.
I appreciate the long post about why, but it contained no appreciation of the issues players raised. What occured over this last week can in no way be classified as "listening to the players". You said what you'd do, we got upset, and then you did it anyway.
I'm not really gonna complain to be honest. You're giving us JTR so I'm happy. And people complaining about how it's such short notice, it's always short notice, wise up and farm early like I did. Surely if you've been playing this game you've learnt some level of patience and foresight. CLS returned 4 months after his first appearance so this March isn't beyond possibilities of JTR returning
I've been farming them since December. Just to reiterate the atrocious drop rates.
its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.
According to game changers it's about 16-25% in HAAT and 30% in Hsith raid..
its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.
If you make 10% heroic this reduction represents 1 million. How many times can you make 1 million in heroic p1?
I didn't say I like it, or wanted it. I wass just pointing out it's not a 50% reduction in straight damage.
It’s a 40% reduction in JTR damage in this raid, they reduced hp by 5% this making the raid even harder. So actually you are wrong in thinking it’s not as much as people would think. Maybe you should do the math before trying to defend a **** decision by the devs?
Firstly I claimed no numbers, that were not stated by others, but please post your math showing that a reduction of 50% to expose and a 5% reduction in health works out to 40% reduction in overall damage. I would love to see it. @Themy
As I said I wasn't trying to defend it, but nearly pointing out that a 50% reduction in expose does not directly mean a 50% reduction in damage.
@TVF please dont post gifs, especially in all 60 FPS glory. A lot of people are complaining how it eats their bandwidth since they use their mobile connections
First I've ever heard anyone complain and I'm certainly not the only one who posts gifs. Heck, a recently departed member of CG did it constantly.
I've seen 2 earlier today, can't remember which specific posts since the forums are on fire today. I love posting gifs myself, and I am resisting the urge to break out the memelord folder because I know there are a lot of people who dont usually go on forums today that are browsing them and they are on their limited bandwidth.
The choice is yours, I dont expect everyone to care about the plights of others as I do.
@CG_RyDiggs
I have no issues neither with the expose nerf nor with the sthan nerf.
Both perfectly acceptable.
All I ask is that you please listen to the community about the challenge gear.
Why are new challenges dropping old challenge gear ? And while we're at it. Address the carbanti and cuffs issues and let us get more somewhere. A new challenge tier maybe. A minimum drop of carbanti in any sith raid reward to all participants maybe ?
Or maybe just change drop rate of current challenge days to drop more carbanti and not 5 times 3 carbanti as we usually get.
I can’t really come up with many theories to craft it’s too exhausting. I did about 8 mil in the heroic raid without doing st Han trick, and only getting 2mil with JTR team. I literally threw every team I had, and in p4 many teams scored 100k or less ( like zero ) while i tried to be a good guild member and chip away at nihilus.
I know that if I am still playing in a couple of months this will seem less hard, but with the stress of trying to do well in territory wars, which has been unexpectedly bad for my guild, territory battles, which are whatever but require time, ship arena getting increasingly hard because i have every ship maxed out which doesn’t help stay ahead of the other people on my shard. So even ship battles takes 20 or 30minutes.
The problem is that the only thing keeping me in the game is that I found a top guild that I really like, but that means I have to buy everything and do everything. I am really burning out.
Change the guild or take a break. All your choice. If you do not enjoy what you are doing, it's time to move on.
Soo,2 questions then. Will this change make expose less viable in other parts of the game? Why not just add, "raid bosses take half dmg from special negative status effects like D.O.T. or Expose" in the raid bulletin?..
Considering how fast this update was turned around it seems like CG could make a few new Tiers to Rancor and AAT. Rancor would be especially easy - just remove or reduce TM reduction for an 8th tier. Heroic AAT is quickly becoming like the Pit, lots and lots of self-imposed rules because the raid has become so easy.
The player base is MUCH more sophisticated than it was when HAAT came out. They have tested loads of teams in DSTB, LSTB, TW, HAAT, and Rancor. I truly do not believe there is a chirpatine or princess zody waiting to be discovered in the existing content. CG wants players to buy/farm NEW content to beat this raid. They just won’t admit it.
If the devs are so certain that we are missing something by relying on Rey teams, perhaps a show of good faith is in order. Maybe they could tell us one team of existing characters that we haven’t discovered yet that can be effective. Show us that a clone wars chewbacca lead with royal guard, pao, bodhi rook and CUP can actually do 2 million damage and we just never thought of it. I think that would help restore some good faith with the player base.
So @CG_RyDiggs, it kinda looks a bit grim for your day at work so far. I feel for you, I really do. It's impossible to please everyone. However, what we have here, is a very large majority of the active forum users who feel like these changes were both too far (expose by 50%), not enough (5% health reduction for P1 only), or issues that were completely disregarded and ignored (stacking Tenacity, palty rewards).
This pivotal moment in time is now in your hands, and how you respond. Good luck. I have a feeling you'll need it.
In the other megathread, I believe CyDiggs said that the change to Expose has been in the works for a long time and this is when they decided to implement it. Then this comes out and it says that the expose change was decided "late last week." Am I missing something, or are they actually asking us to trust them while blatantly lying to our faces?
This. Someone needs to explain this. I felt lied to and misled before reading this post. Now it is in print in full color for all to see.
Actually, some of the more "math inclined" people in our guild ran the numbers, and it's not really that bad. They've estimated that JTRey teams will do about 20-25% less damage with the change to expose. While that is significant, you won't need twice as many.
To be completely frank here, these changes to Expose change the foundation and reasoning for every cent that I have spent on this game the fast 3 months. Everything I have done has been to build towards Expose teams and RJT as well. I purchased goods/services and I am not receiving the goods/services as advertised when I purchased them.
Read into that what you will, but do so knowing that I have already contacted third parties about this issue and I am doing my research as to what recourse the community has as a whole.
I usually don’t reply, I’ve sat and just let the devs do their work as they should and do, part of their job is to explore ALL posibities and scenarios before making adjustments to in game balances, mechanics and ecommerse due to paying consumer investment of non-tangible items via CFPB and the current digital media rights act... as they should. In this particular scenario I don’t think all options have been explored by the data analysts and devs.
IMHO I believe the change in expose isn’t needed in any way, the change needs to be done on the devs side of coding mechanics within the power balance that ISNT Mod controlled or driven. Mods barely and I mean barely work now, the testing I’ve conducted on one exaple is Teebo/QGJ vs Rancor, TM reduction chance and effective potency levels to negate resistance and land the TMR. QGJ basic should not resisted or evaded in any way at 116% potency, yet it does often. Either 76% 101% or 116% the results all came in with over a 20% resisted stat which should only happen if QGJ potency is at 76%. Until inner game fine tuning is accurate with less than a 5% error rate INCLUDING RNG, then a 50% expose damage reduction for a stat that can be altered with mod changes doesn’t make sense as that change is on the players side and not the devs side which would be an adjustment to the rancor, tank, or Sith raid boss line-up...
Reduce the in game RNG, alter the raid bosses stats and leave the players stats alone so we can continue to farm mods effectively based off the statistics that’s built daily the last 2.5 years..
Oh and the exposed speed on mods not increasing while leveling up a mod after player purchased (mod shop only) technically is a capital gain offense (very grey area) in game purchases only...
Please reprioritize your sprints, get the Toons working as designed with the stats they currently have so the mods will make an actual difference, and rebalance the Bosses and PVE enemy .. as those are out of our control and mods don’t make boss stat change differences.
Until that happens I’m afraid a 50% expose reduction is literally going to make your sprints and dev in game priority list more of a challenge that it already is...
Let the players work the Toons and the devs work the PVE and Bosses...
I hope this helps, sometimes a gentle focus reminder can make good things happen
- 50 percent nerf on Expose (Check)
- 5 percent decrease in total health for P1 (Check)
- Modified March event calendar to put JTR in the mix (Check)
- Don't talk about challenge gear rewards (Check)
- Sit back and watch the community rage and wait for the JTR panic farms to begin in 2 days (Check)
- Laugh all the way to the bank (Soon to be checked)
Every once in awhile I always thought it was a gesture of good faith to send some money CG's way as an acknowledgement of the good work that they had done (an occasional toon pack, crystal pack). I think this one seals the deal for me. I will NOT panic farm JTR. I will not spend any more money on this game because this shows me that my money is not well deserved. Bravo CG. Bravo.
Would you kindly address the decision to include challenge gear in the reward pool? You could create so much goodwill by just making that simple change. The STR is sooooo time consuming and it's a very frustrating/enfuriating experience to get useless gear. Thanks!
PS and FYI... devs will Ignore all the complaints and whining here unless it impacts their bottom line. They have already done so on numerous occasions since game launch when there is no benefit to them.
Don’t like that JTR was nerfed? Wait a cycle or two and encourage your friends and guild to do the same. You still get to enjoy the toons just for free and after all the drama has passed.
Their bottom line is that they are running a business. Some business models want you to happily spend (apple) and some to spend in anger but all on overpriced goods.
Actions speak louder than words and Unless the game revenues drop, none of the complaints will have an impact.
Maybe a boycott is in order. If they see that less than 50% of the player base is even attempting the raid, what will that say about the time and money they invested into developing it. It's not like we will miss out on anything. We're not getting Treya shards anyway, and we can always get our challenge gear that's in the rewards through the daily challenges. We can still play the game, just not that part of it.
for me that was it with this game and trust into it‘s development.
At least regarding spending some $$$ and this being the main game I played.
Full F2P from dolphin in one bad decision... but it wasn‘t the decision itself, but the obvious underhanded money-grab move... to increase value on the next must-haves, be it toons, mods, levels or something else entirely...
Serious questions that I kept asking but went unanswered (as with so many questions of the community):
1. What happened to the ST Han players? If they got any penalty this game should be sued to death
2. What about long-term goals of the nerf? If the next raid dropped will have more HP (it will definately have more due to new toons, mods, levels) they have to nerf expose again... short term fix for a self-created Problem that doesn‘t address the real problems
3. What about the reward? Why spend days and weeks (for smaller guilds) to torment themselves with this mess, for gear that can be o tainted faster and more regularly through challenges? (You know, you claim it to be the high-end of high-ends but the rewards do not reflect this sentiment; have you ever played any game with raidbosses? If it is the latest raid, it drops the currently best rewards available, because... you know... high-end, top-tier gaming?)
4. even if you think you know better what your community wants and think they are stupid; most of us actually understand and grasp the business model underlying this game. So give us ONE relatable argument why we should NOT see this as mere money-grab and ripping of customers that bought something and now got told „it is too good for you, we have to make it weaker despite all buffs that happened to expose before AND despite the fact that JTR was advertised as raid monster! (Now, that first post here contradicts itself in parts and does not really tell us anything besides explaining it in more detail what you do, but not really why)
Well, as a former dolphin -maybe even kraken- and customer (now only consumer) I want to say
"So long, and thanks for all the fish"
unless you can sway my mind... which I honestly do not believe you will be able to with the "we know better than our customers what they want" behavior. Reasoning? Blatant lies and open hostility towards customers:
* you do NOT listen to your community, you only „notice our concerns“ then they are discarded
* you have yet to give reasonable argumentation as to why people should be punished for your mistakes
* you claim the nerf is for the future goals and better for the community (so what happens when the 900 mil raid drops? Cut expose by 50% again to keep %-related damage in check?)
* you are a company wanting to make money, which is totally understandable... communicate as such. We know it is about making sure your next content has a higher value towards the endgame, then make your new content valuable, design the raid better than slapping a megaton stacking resistances and hp on it and artificially and prematurely devaluing the latest toons to expect your expectations
Other than that, maybe you need to think this through:
Whales are your main income... they play to achieve goals like being better than others.
If you make sure your plankton is dissatisfied, they leave.... without that backbone the whales die from malnourishment... end of game instead of end game content...
Sincerely (and hopefully understood critique NOT just whining),
Cossin
P.s.:
You‘ll get strong competition with another Disney-owned game soon enough... I honestly hope this game survives, I really do! I love Star Wars I loved the way the game was going so far... but last months? DSTB, the disappointing QoL update, so many bugs that don‘t seem to get addressed...
PS and FYI... devs will Ignore all the complaints and whining here unless it impacts their bottom line. They have already done so on numerous occasions since game launch when there is no benefit to them.
Don’t like that JTR was nerfed? Wait a cycle or two and encourage your friends and guild to do the same. You still get to enjoy the toons just for free and after all the drama has passed.
Their bottom line is that they are running a business. Some business models want you to happily spend (apple) and some to spend in anger but all on overpriced goods.
Actions speak louder than words and Unless the game revenues drop, none of the complaints will have an impact.
Maybe a boycott is in order. If they see that less than 50% of the player base is even attempting the raid, what will that say about the time and money they invested into developing it. It's not like we will miss out on anything. We're not getting Treya shards anyway, and we can always get our challenge gear that's in the rewards through the daily challenges. We can still play the game, just not that part of it.
Some rewards are better than no rewards would be the logic by most I would think. My guild is on Day 8 of a T5 Sith raid and we are halfway done with P3 (and NOT using the ST Han strategy since we have told all guild mates not to factor that in since it's GOING to go away). Yeah we maxed out tickets a couple of days ago but as an officer I really don't care at this point. I've been lucky that my guild has recognized the slug fest for what it is and has adjusted accordingly. We'll drop down to a T4 or a T3 on the next one and wait to see what the update does (other than nerf JTR in half).
Replies
@Kyno
50% expose nerf is not "slight change"
5% health only in P1 is not even useful
Throw in teams and hit “auto”...
I thought the health was going to be reduced more than just P1 itself...
First I've ever heard anyone complain and I'm certainly not the only one who posts gifs. Heck, a recently departed member of CG did it constantly.
This. 100%. It’s truely a shame.
Firstly I claimed no numbers, that were not stated by others, but please post your math showing that a reduction of 50% to expose and a 5% reduction in health works out to 40% reduction in overall damage. I would love to see it. @Themy
As I said I wasn't trying to defend it, but nearly pointing out that a 50% reduction in expose does not directly mean a 50% reduction in damage.
I've seen 2 earlier today, can't remember which specific posts since the forums are on fire today. I love posting gifs myself, and I am resisting the urge to break out the memelord folder because I know there are a lot of people who dont usually go on forums today that are browsing them and they are on their limited bandwidth.
The choice is yours, I dont expect everyone to care about the plights of others as I do.
Hahaha, noted.
I don't know much about gifs but I can try to post shorter ones.
I have no issues neither with the expose nerf nor with the sthan nerf.
Both perfectly acceptable.
All I ask is that you please listen to the community about the challenge gear.
Why are new challenges dropping old challenge gear ? And while we're at it. Address the carbanti and cuffs issues and let us get more somewhere. A new challenge tier maybe. A minimum drop of carbanti in any sith raid reward to all participants maybe ?
Or maybe just change drop rate of current challenge days to drop more carbanti and not 5 times 3 carbanti as we usually get.
Change the guild or take a break. All your choice. If you do not enjoy what you are doing, it's time to move on.
If the devs are so certain that we are missing something by relying on Rey teams, perhaps a show of good faith is in order. Maybe they could tell us one team of existing characters that we haven’t discovered yet that can be effective. Show us that a clone wars chewbacca lead with royal guard, pao, bodhi rook and CUP can actually do 2 million damage and we just never thought of it. I think that would help restore some good faith with the player base.
This pivotal moment in time is now in your hands, and how you respond. Good luck. I have a feeling you'll need it.
This. Someone needs to explain this. I felt lied to and misled before reading this post. Now it is in print in full color for all to see.
Read into that what you will, but do so knowing that I have already contacted third parties about this issue and I am doing my research as to what recourse the community has as a whole.
IMHO I believe the change in expose isn’t needed in any way, the change needs to be done on the devs side of coding mechanics within the power balance that ISNT Mod controlled or driven. Mods barely and I mean barely work now, the testing I’ve conducted on one exaple is Teebo/QGJ vs Rancor, TM reduction chance and effective potency levels to negate resistance and land the TMR. QGJ basic should not resisted or evaded in any way at 116% potency, yet it does often. Either 76% 101% or 116% the results all came in with over a 20% resisted stat which should only happen if QGJ potency is at 76%. Until inner game fine tuning is accurate with less than a 5% error rate INCLUDING RNG, then a 50% expose damage reduction for a stat that can be altered with mod changes doesn’t make sense as that change is on the players side and not the devs side which would be an adjustment to the rancor, tank, or Sith raid boss line-up...
Reduce the in game RNG, alter the raid bosses stats and leave the players stats alone so we can continue to farm mods effectively based off the statistics that’s built daily the last 2.5 years..
Oh and the exposed speed on mods not increasing while leveling up a mod after player purchased (mod shop only) technically is a capital gain offense (very grey area) in game purchases only...
Please reprioritize your sprints, get the Toons working as designed with the stats they currently have so the mods will make an actual difference, and rebalance the Bosses and PVE enemy .. as those are out of our control and mods don’t make boss stat change differences.
Until that happens I’m afraid a 50% expose reduction is literally going to make your sprints and dev in game priority list more of a challenge that it already is...
Let the players work the Toons and the devs work the PVE and Bosses...
I hope this helps, sometimes a gentle focus reminder can make good things happen
Thanks for all you do CG...
RFD
Team Instinct
- 5 percent decrease in total health for P1 (Check)
- Modified March event calendar to put JTR in the mix (Check)
- Don't talk about challenge gear rewards (Check)
- Sit back and watch the community rage and wait for the JTR panic farms to begin in 2 days (Check)
- Laugh all the way to the bank (Soon to be checked)
Every once in awhile I always thought it was a gesture of good faith to send some money CG's way as an acknowledgement of the good work that they had done (an occasional toon pack, crystal pack). I think this one seals the deal for me. I will NOT panic farm JTR. I will not spend any more money on this game because this shows me that my money is not well deserved. Bravo CG. Bravo.
Its 9 am in the office, he usually doesn't report into the forum until 10. @Ryzak620
Doesn't stack, it's only been a year or so, crazy how fast other "bugs" are fixed
Maybe a boycott is in order. If they see that less than 50% of the player base is even attempting the raid, what will that say about the time and money they invested into developing it. It's not like we will miss out on anything. We're not getting Treya shards anyway, and we can always get our challenge gear that's in the rewards through the daily challenges. We can still play the game, just not that part of it.
for me that was it with this game and trust into it‘s development.
At least regarding spending some $$$ and this being the main game I played.
Full F2P from dolphin in one bad decision... but it wasn‘t the decision itself, but the obvious underhanded money-grab move... to increase value on the next must-haves, be it toons, mods, levels or something else entirely...
Serious questions that I kept asking but went unanswered (as with so many questions of the community):
1. What happened to the ST Han players? If they got any penalty this game should be sued to death
2. What about long-term goals of the nerf? If the next raid dropped will have more HP (it will definately have more due to new toons, mods, levels) they have to nerf expose again... short term fix for a self-created Problem that doesn‘t address the real problems
3. What about the reward? Why spend days and weeks (for smaller guilds) to torment themselves with this mess, for gear that can be o tainted faster and more regularly through challenges? (You know, you claim it to be the high-end of high-ends but the rewards do not reflect this sentiment; have you ever played any game with raidbosses? If it is the latest raid, it drops the currently best rewards available, because... you know... high-end, top-tier gaming?)
4. even if you think you know better what your community wants and think they are stupid; most of us actually understand and grasp the business model underlying this game. So give us ONE relatable argument why we should NOT see this as mere money-grab and ripping of customers that bought something and now got told „it is too good for you, we have to make it weaker despite all buffs that happened to expose before AND despite the fact that JTR was advertised as raid monster! (Now, that first post here contradicts itself in parts and does not really tell us anything besides explaining it in more detail what you do, but not really why)
Well, as a former dolphin -maybe even kraken- and customer (now only consumer) I want to say
"So long, and thanks for all the fish"
unless you can sway my mind... which I honestly do not believe you will be able to with the "we know better than our customers what they want" behavior. Reasoning? Blatant lies and open hostility towards customers:
* you do NOT listen to your community, you only „notice our concerns“ then they are discarded
* you have yet to give reasonable argumentation as to why people should be punished for your mistakes
* you claim the nerf is for the future goals and better for the community (so what happens when the 900 mil raid drops? Cut expose by 50% again to keep %-related damage in check?)
* you are a company wanting to make money, which is totally understandable... communicate as such. We know it is about making sure your next content has a higher value towards the endgame, then make your new content valuable, design the raid better than slapping a megaton stacking resistances and hp on it and artificially and prematurely devaluing the latest toons to expect your expectations
Other than that, maybe you need to think this through:
Whales are your main income... they play to achieve goals like being better than others.
If you make sure your plankton is dissatisfied, they leave.... without that backbone the whales die from malnourishment... end of game instead of end game content...
Sincerely (and hopefully understood critique NOT just whining),
Cossin
P.s.:
You‘ll get strong competition with another Disney-owned game soon enough... I honestly hope this game survives, I really do! I love Star Wars I loved the way the game was going so far... but last months? DSTB, the disappointing QoL update, so many bugs that don‘t seem to get addressed...
Some rewards are better than no rewards would be the logic by most I would think. My guild is on Day 8 of a T5 Sith raid and we are halfway done with P3 (and NOT using the ST Han strategy since we have told all guild mates not to factor that in since it's GOING to go away). Yeah we maxed out tickets a couple of days ago but as an officer I really don't care at this point. I've been lucky that my guild has recognized the slug fest for what it is and has adjusted accordingly. We'll drop down to a T4 or a T3 on the next one and wait to see what the update does (other than nerf JTR in half).