Update to Raid Reward Changes - 4/11/18

Replies

  • So, you neutered the HSTR rewards because the HSTR players were outpacing the other players. I've got a few questions because shouldn't they be anyways?

    1. The HSTR guilds, will most assuredly score more stars in the tw's and be in the high tiers on the tbs. Again advancing them at a faster pace than the non HSTR guilds. So are you going to change the reward structure on the TBs and TWs as well?
    2. With the discussion of completing G12 and possibly G13, shouldn't this raid only produce G12 shards, since they are not farmable?
    3. Why maintain the same reward structure of the other 2 raids? The difficulty of the HSTR far outpacing HAAT and PIT raids, shouldn't the rewards reflect that? The 2 rewards I've obtained one before the change and one after are night and day. The one before, I felt was outstanding, and reflected the time and effort we placed in defeating HSTR. The after the change reward, was disappointing at best. I've seen better HAAT rewards.

    I'm going to be honest, it felt like a slap in the face. I imagine, a lot of people are excited just about the DT shards and that's great. But as has been pointed out a thousand times, you need a well rounded character set and downgrading of the rewards hampers that.

    Mods, I posted this in the general discussion, because of the sticky.
    https://swgoh.gg/u/totenteufel/
    “When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” George R R Martin
  • JJay
    368 posts Member
    Agreed, the rewards were actually worth it for once.
  • WR4TH0R
    170 posts Member
    I suspect a few sickies will be thrown @CG today
  • @CG_Carrie , just for you to know, our guild is discussing currently wherher we should leave T5 and do T4 instead or just leave the whole raid until you decide to do accordingly what you have promised.
  • Speaking as a guild leader of a T4 guild...

    *Marketing pre-update*
    "Rewards for T4-6 will improve to help guilds progress up to higher tier raids. More gear drops of needed gear and more guild tokens for the stores"

    *Reality*
    "We'll give you less gear, and a few more guild tokens. It won't make much of a difference as to how fast you develop towards Heroic (PS Heroic raids are barely worth it too)"


    I remember it taking a month to finish T6 AAT. That wasn't fun, but at least that was mainly because my guild had weak rosters. The big jump there was the difference between T6 and T7, took us 3 months to go from clearing T6 in a day to managing T7, farming rare event toons like Thrawn and BB8 to push us over, in which time we at least had the T6 rewards to help.

    T4 takes us 4 days (80m guild). That's not *fun*, and there aren't easy fixes to that for us like simply having better gear or a couple rare toons. Frankly for a lot of guilds like us, we can't rely on the whole guild rush farming teams for Sith when they have other priorities like Arena, TB, and just personal preference. It's ok for a hardcore guild to expect 50/50 JTR and everyone pitching in on a raid, but the vast majority of guilds aren't like that.

    Guilds like us are waiting for the *really* big score teams to be found, which will probably involve toons that haven't been released yet. The CLS, BB8 and Thrawn-like toons that allow the more focussed players in the guild to do most of a phase or more. I expect that to take around 6-8 months.
  • First_but_66_Order
    1014 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    leef wrote: »
    I can remember a 10+ page thank you thread after changing HRSoldier back to a 5* minimum requirement. it was hilarious. Somewhat comparable to thanking a bully for not punching you.
    Anyway, the question remains whether that is a bad thing or not. If the players end up being content with the changes, does it really matter that they're being played?

    I felt that was a tiny bit sarcastic.
    Like "Thank you that you are giving us what we actually bought" kind of thing.

    On long term this will cause the end of the game. Just like Kotor and Bioware, SWGoH and CG will be in trouble.
    I ve seen many iconic companies screw up their business, and it would be st*pid if CG thought they are different.

    EDIT
    lol st*pid censor bot... :smiley:
  • kevthejedi wrote: »
    It's clear that this change isn't what people wanted, Heroic rewards were a 3 course meal and are now barely a sandwich. T6 and below were a slice of bread in comparison, personally I'll find out today how T6 rewards have been affected.
    Now they'll be a crumbly, moldy piece of old crust...
  • I hate to be that guy, but im gonna point out that CG has realised that they effed up and are hopefully gonna fix this. This was a accidental(?) messup. I doubt anyone in CG Thought that nerfing rewards was gonna improve their popularity.

    That said, i think i m gonna stop actively defending them until may. After this post, anyway.

  • Kyno wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote:
    Hello everybody,
    With today’s raid reward changes, many people noticed that the chance of receiving a full piece of gear in the Heroic Tier had been lowered. This was an overcorrection and we are partially rolling it back. Now anybody who completes the Heroic Tier will get one guaranteed full piece.
    Below is our explanation, forgive the wordiness but in order to explain the reasoning for this, we need to get into some heady topics.
    ---TL;DR Version---
    We had changed the droprate from a tiered percentage chance to a flat 40% to accommodate an additional two slots of Gear XII coming in May exclusively to the Heroic Tier. In the spirit of communication, we did say why because we don't want to promise something too early and then not end up delivering it on time. However after reviewing internally we feel confident that we can hit the May date, and we are rolling back the chance of a full gear piece from the Heroic Tier to 100% across all ranks, until the new rewards are live, at which point we will reevaluate. All of the other changes remain the same (including the flattening of rewards across ranks, the expansion of the full piece pool beyond strictly GXII, the removal of many pieces of low-demand salvage, and the changes to Guild Currency and Guild Event Tokens), and we will continue to monitor the impact of these other changes as players continue to launch & complete raids.
    We will make this change sometime in the next two weeks and ensure that a makegood, equivalent to roughly 2-4 pieces of full gear pieces, is provided to anybody who has completed the Heroic raid during this time period.
    Thanks for your feedback during this rollout.
    ---Longer Version---
    First, we'd like to apologize for one piece of improper expectations-setting in our announcement of the raid rewards changes. Specifically, for the Heroic Tier, the Guild Currency & Guild Event Token "steepening" was never intended to fully offset the reduction in value of all of the gear changes for top-ranking players. It was intended to preserve some incentive for finishing in the top ranks, since we reduced that incentive by flattening gear rewards (for the overall well-being of guilds and of the game).
    We made an oversight in wording in the initial announcement of the changes, and while the top-ranked Guild Currency and Guild Event Token rewards are significantly better than before, it doesn’t fully make up for the full piece odds drops, especially for ranks #1-3.
    Second, in our initial tuning, we overshot the mark in the odds of full GXII piece drops. Players who have the Sith Heroic Raid on farm, completing it twice a week without fail, consistently getting 1 or more full GXII pieces (emphasis on GXII because of the immense value of those gear pieces in combat), will pull away from the rest of the population in a way that is truly detrimental to the long-term health of the game.
    Without diving too much into the underlying value of the various pieces of the gear economy, we have been looking at internal data from the first few weeks of Heroic results, and we had settled on a 40% flat chance of a full complete piece, in the Heroic Tier, across all ranks, as a reasonable long-term goal for the value of the effort of completing the Heroic Tier when you include the expansion pieces of Gear XII.
    Third, we have changed the full piece pool from Gear XII, to a broader array of desired pieces. Despite its combat utility and theoretical demand, Gear XII is not as all-encompassing a concern for some players as concerns about Mk3 Carbantis, Mk5 Stun Guns, some formerly AAT-exclusive pieces, Gear XI finishers, etc. All of which are now in the complete piece pool.
    However, it's clear that the aggregate amount of effort (gear & ability investment, time, offline theorycrafting, and coordination) required to complete the Sith Heroic Tier is still too high to lower the complete piece odds at this time. Our target for the long run remains a 40% chance of a full gear piece (GXII, GXI finishers, highly pinched Raid Gear, or a handful of other high-demand pieces), plus the rewards from the expansion of GXII but until:
    We have had a chance to reevaluate Heroic reward results once the new gear is out.
    We see sustained evidence that players have their teams ready to go and are deploying them to consistently beat Heroic in larger numbers, we'll keep the complete piece chance at 100%.
    Players will receive advance notice from us in the future when we are ready to make this change.
    To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates, your aggregate result in Territory Battles and Territory Wars, and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks, as a result of these changes (including the rollback to 100% which we will deploy inside of the next two weeks). Know that your efforts will result in early access to the next release of gear. Know that we are always looking for more ways to reward you, and will be rolling out changes that reward the level of cooperation and cohesion that you have already established and that the vast majority of players are still working towards. We know that the adjustment may be painful for top-performing guildmates at first, but we are confident that this will be a net positive for players and for the game in the long run.
    Thanks to everyone for your feedback and we'll see you on the holotables,
    -Carrie

    <<DEV Post>>

    This is their massive and classic "if you can't wow them with wisdom, baffle them with bull ****" response. A simple yes or no answer to the question, "Are you going to return the rewards back to previous drops?", would have been more concise and acceptable to the community. Admitting you screwed up and are fixing it goes along way in restoring confidence in a product. Right now I don't see that happening.
  • Corvus
    190 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    There is a screenshot over at reddit showing the new "improved" t6 reward for STR, and the reward is disheartening bad. I really don't know how to keep people interested in the Sith raid most don't even enjoy if the rewards from that screen holds to be true.

    I also don't know how on earth these kind of rewards should help us advancing to heroic...
  • I just see a screenshot from a friend on the t6 . The rewards are so bad , what a mess . Congrats , now you just killed the motivation of many players .
  • UkonKornelius
    7 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Can someone at CG/EA explain why I should waste about 5 hours of my life in a 48 hour window doing the Heroic raid just to get the same reward that I can get in the heroic tank raid taking a 0? I would like an actual simple, concise response instead of the "if you can't wow them with wisdom, baffle them with kittens" response Carrie rambled on with. It's an easy yes or no answer to the question, "Are you going to return the rewards to the prior state or not?"
  • So hows the world of sunshine and rainbows?
  • Hahahaha. A nerf is an improvement?!?! Surely you’re joking. Or you just don’t know what words mean. Awful changes. You just killed the last motivation people had for doing this boring raid. Now there’s no need to bother with it. Thanks
  • C3hyp77 wrote: »
    I just see a screenshot from a friend on the t6 . The rewards are so bad , what a mess . Congrats , now you just killed the motivation of many players .

    Not sure. Both screenshots I saw had a full piece there: a stun cuff and an eyeball. If you are guaranteeda full piece of useful gear, that offsets the loss of the few g12 salvages, but it *definitely* wasn't the big buff that t6 needed to be even halfway worthwhile.

    This change is an unmitigated disaster.
  • C3hyp77
    162 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Acrofales wrote: »
    C3hyp77 wrote: »
    I just see a screenshot from a friend on the t6 . The rewards are so bad , what a mess . Congrats , now you just killed the motivation of many players .

    Not sure. Both screenshots I saw had a full piece there: a stun cuff and an eyeball. If you are guaranteeda full piece of useful gear, that offsets the loss of the few g12 salvages, but it *definitely* wasn't the big buff that t6 needed to be even halfway worthwhile.

    This change is an unmitigated disaster.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267984560917053440/433937269645377546/Screenshot_20180412-123109.png

    Still not sure ? First place on t6
  • I think there is really one good way to solve it.
    Example : I can do ~5m dmg in entire raid. But any Mol Eliza can come and do 0 dmg. And still get same rewards like me, except guild tokens, but everyone made it clear - no one cares.
    It's all about this, the old system was like - you are doing more dmg? = you get better rewards.
    Now as I said any Mol Eliza with 25 lv can come, do 0 dmg and get almost same rewards as 70+ lv with 5m dmg. I don't even mention 85 lv, multiple amount of dmg done at least 2x, even more.
    So, the "resolver" should be :
    + Revert prize boxes to "old system" - "more dmg = better rewards" (except challenge gear which other people mentioned)
    + But new amounts of guild currency should stay untouched. STR is significantly more challenging raid for now, and it takes more time than any other raid, so this change is very good in terms of "improved rewards"
    If u do that, I think everyone will be happy and probably forget soon about this terrible prize box change.
  • As far as “heroic always got full pieces....” that’s bull. I have gotten 3 full pieces out of 6 heroic raids so that perception is false. I was fine with my 50% chance FOR FULL G12 pieces....what I got yesterday was utterly pathetic.

    My biggest problem is their claim that players will be happy with the reward changes....I can’t speak for non heroic, but heroic players by a far majority are not happy with the change.

    Too much gear? Guess what....I’m 3 months anyone who has been playing this game for almost a year can get JTr and start beating heroic. At my 50% previous drop rate and 1.75 or so raids per week, I’ll have only 9 or 10 full pieces on you.....wow what a huge advantage. Who could ever catch up with that?

    Besides arena is same age players so that argument only applies to player who remain loyal to an under performing guild.
  • sying wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    I can remember a 10+ page thank you thread after changing HRSoldier back to a 5* minimum requirement. it was hilarious. Somewhat comparable to thanking a bully for not punching you.
    Anyway, the question remains whether that is a bad thing or not. If the players end up being content with the changes, does it really matter that they're being played?

    That depends on if I’m right about what CG is doing. For instance, if CG didn’t over reach and just went with the raid rewards they just announced (like I said they would) and people were unhappy then it matters. My stance is that they are pulling a Scotty-ish move and making things seem much worse than they are only to dial it back and put out another update to appease the masses. In which case we’re only happy because it’s not the initial, less satisfactory update.

    If people are genuinely happy with the updated update then awesome. That’s different.

    Hopefully, that makes sense.

    That's exactly what I think they're doing and said as much on reddit. They ease up on the nerf and the shills lap it up as CG 'listening'. CG gets their nerf through and somehow gets a PR win. Frankly, the customer base doesn't help itself.
  • C3hyp77 wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    C3hyp77 wrote: »
    I just see a screenshot from a friend on the t6 . The rewards are so bad , what a mess . Congrats , now you just killed the motivation of many players .

    Not sure. Both screenshots I saw had a full piece there: a stun cuff and an eyeball. If you are guaranteeda full piece of useful gear, that offsets the loss of the few g12 salvages, but it *definitely* wasn't the big buff that t6 needed to be even halfway worthwhile.

    This change is an unmitigated disaster.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267984560917053440/433937269645377546/Screenshot_20180412-123109.png

    Still not sure ? First place on t6

    Wow, so with variable gear dropping you might actually be able to craft a full piece in 2-3 months? Why wouldn't you be happy with that when spending hours every raid?
  • Arkantos wrote: »
    Who wants to bet they tell the game changers to put out videos to try and calm us down over the next few days?

    It's amazing how they said they were going to "improve" rewards and now they are terrible (will be terrible in May).

    I'm terrified to think how they will "improve" Rancor and HAAT drops

    I cant wait to see the spin control on this one :)
  • What is with Tier 1-6, so not the heroic one? i hab deen first in the last lvl4 Tier and all i got has been three gears, none of them a full piece one and the rest with a maximum of 7 pieces, which i guess is very less for getting the first place on a Raid that lasts about four days. And our guild is about 86 million gm strong.
    I guess that this system has some bugs in the down tiers, so I tell it for you to know ;)
  • C3hyp77 wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    C3hyp77 wrote: »
    I just see a screenshot from a friend on the t6 . The rewards are so bad , what a mess . Congrats , now you just killed the motivation of many players .

    Not sure. Both screenshots I saw had a full piece there: a stun cuff and an eyeball. If you are guaranteeda full piece of useful gear, that offsets the loss of the few g12 salvages, but it *definitely* wasn't the big buff that t6 needed to be even halfway worthwhile.

    This change is an unmitigated disaster.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267984560917053440/433937269645377546/Screenshot_20180412-123109.png

    Still not sure ? First place on t6

    Okay, that's just pathetically awful. Lol. Great improvement in the raid rewards. I'm glad we now get less of everything! (But hey, at least there's a bit more currency there... right?)
  • wikking
    14 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    I've listened to many interviews with developers of this game. I got to shake EA Jesse's hand at a CON when he was still here. From everything that I've observed I really believe that the people involved in this game love Star Wars, and want to make a fun game. That's why it's baffling to me how they keep fumbling the ball so badly so often.

    I appreciate all the extra communication from the devs lately. And it's been more than just talk. There have been plenty of meaningful improvements to the game I could list. But some how you guys manage to destroy any good will you create. The simple lessons here are: 1. Stop rushing out broken stuff. 2. Don't lie to us.

    I've heard straight from the devs lips that there are people who's sole job is balancing the economy. All day long looking at data, and assessing the flow of widgets into the game. How were you off so badly? If the new nerfed rewards had come out with the raid originally we all would have grumbled a bit, and gotten over it especially when the next gear level was added on top of it. But after weeks of actually great rewards having them taken away becomes a giant disaster. And it's 100% self inflicted.

    Currently the rewards for first place in the Heroic Sith Raid are worse than last place before. There is no way you can spin that unless you're delusional. To call that "improvements" is a bald faced lie. You threw gasoline on the dumpster fire you created by telling us you were going to do the opposite of what you were about to do. And even in your explanation post you keep avoiding responsibility. You didn't, 'inadvertently create expectations' or whatever. You just lied.

    If you had been more careful about what you released there would have been no real problem. If you release rewards that are too high, but told us that honestly, mentioned the actual positive changes that were coming with the nerf to soften it (more guild tokens, no challenge gear, new gear added next month, etc) then people would be upset, but would settle down eventually, and I for one would respect the honesty. As it is you make the worst decision every turn. I really want you guys to be around working on this game for a long time, but somebody has to start acting with some common sense.

    Please just remember. Talking a lot isn't communication if what you saying isn't true.

    Great post! Nothing to add.



    "Q: Will players be happy with the normalization of gear Mystery Boxes?"

    --> Shell we make a quick poll? ^^
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