Bunch of whiny little snowflakes. THEY TOOK MY RAID REWARDS!!! WAAAAH! So just wait for them to fix it. Quit complaining and recognize the fact they said: OOPS, we messed up, sorry.
You seem to have missed the fact they they’re only “fixing” it for a week or two
I might add it is only a partial fix (still way worse than before after the fix) and only for heroic the nerfed rewards on the lower tiers will stay.
I may be in the minority here on these forums on this topic, but I am glad they made the changes they did. For people not able to do heroic sith raids, the vast gap in rewards between heroic tier and tiers 6 and less was very demoralizing. It was something i mentioned in my survey I submitted and I am very glad CG listened to voices like mine and acted on it. I'm a 2.7 million GP player and I have JTR and other good teams for this raid. The morale in my guild of 87 million GP was dwindling drastically after seeing how much guilds of 125+ million GP were getting for completing the Heroic raid. It is taking us a long time to beat tier 5 mostly because we've only got maybe 5-6 of the guild having JTR.
Now take a minute to understand the issue here: these players (myself included in them) are all top rank players in arena competing against and beating players of similar caliber in those 125+ million GP guilds that have the sith heroic raid on farm. The fact that heroic raid rewards were granting multiple G12 fully crafted pieces was way to much when compared to how much players of similar GP were able to get in lower tiers. This was demoralizing as it was definitely a case of "the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer". There would be no way for players doing tier 6 and less to even come close to competing against heroic sith raid guilds players in a matter of weeks.......now take that and expand it to months and the gap is ridiculous. The heroic sith raid guilds players would have been so far and above the rest of those int he game that it would have cause people to leave this game for good.
If you thought match making was a nightmare before in TW, just think about the effects the old sith raid rewards would have had in skewing the gap in fair match making in TW setting guilds that were heroic sith raid guilds vs ones that were close but not quite there yet. The forums would be exploding with anger for months and players would leave because of diminishing morale.
I like the heroic raid rewards do give 1 fully crafted piece of G12 gear because that should be the incentive to reach heroic sith raids. but multiple G12 pieces was ridiculous and vastly unfair. It would have lead to many guilds breaking apart and TW/arena becoming a nightmare if the rewards weren't fixed to be more fair.
I get that a lot of people were used to getting the multiple G12 fully crafted pieces and that its suddenly being reduced is a bit of a shock. but your still getting way more that the rest of us that aren't in the heroic tiers, so don't get so greedy. Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
I can feel a major STRIKE coming...... in the form of Marvel Strike Force. Seriously guys why are you trying to lose you game player base? To get prizes in a raid that I already have 2000 plus is a real kick to the jawline. Not happy. FIX IT NOW OR IM WALKING.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
This is just not true @CG_Carrie you said you would be improving raid rewards to bring them in line with the effort involved and from our perspective you have done exactly the opposite.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
Nearly everyone is saying the same thing. These changes contradict the sentiment of the April 2 posting. You set expectations by saying rewards will be better because it is such a hard raid. You have achieved the exact opposite effect. The only change we needed was to remove challenge gear. That's all.
I may be in the minority here on these forums on this topic, but I am glad they made the changes they did. For people not able to do heroic sith raids, the vast gap in rewards between heroic tier and tiers 6 and less was very demoralizing. It was something i mentioned in my survey I submitted and I am very glad CG listened to voices like mine and acted on it. I'm a 2.7 million GP player and I have JTR and other good teams for this raid. The morale in my guild of 87 million GP was dwindling drastically after seeing how much guilds of 125+ million GP were getting for completing the Heroic raid. It is taking us a long time to beat tier 5 mostly because we've only got maybe 5-6 of the guild having JTR.
Now take a minute to understand the issue here: these players (myself included in them) are all top rank players in arena competing against and beating players of similar caliber in those 125+ million GP guilds that have the sith heroic raid on farm. The fact that heroic raid rewards were granting multiple G12 fully crafted pieces was way to much when compared to how much players of similar GP were able to get in lower tiers. This was demoralizing as it was definitely a case of "the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer". There would be no way for players doing tier 6 and less to even come close to competing against heroic sith raid guilds players in a matter of weeks.......now take that and expand it to months and the gap is ridiculous. The heroic sith raid guilds players would have been so far and above the rest of those int he game that it would have cause people to leave this game for good.
If you thought match making was a nightmare before in TW, just think about the effects the old sith raid rewards would have had in skewing the gap in fair match making in TW setting guilds that were heroic sith raid guilds vs ones that were close but not quite there yet. The forums would be exploding with anger for months and players would leave because of diminishing morale.
I like the heroic raid rewards do give 1 fully crafted piece of G12 gear because that should be the incentive to reach heroic sith raids. but multiple G12 pieces was ridiculous and vastly unfair. It would have lead to many guilds breaking apart and TW/arena becoming a nightmare if the rewards weren't fixed to be more fair.
I get that a lot of people were used to getting the multiple G12 fully crafted pieces and that its suddenly being reduced is a bit of a shock. but your still getting way more that the rest of us that aren't in the heroic tiers, so don't get so greedy. Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
But the change does solve nothing as lower tier rewards have been shafted as well, the gap ist still there and its still almost if not the same gap. All that is reached is that EVERYBODY advances slower now than before...
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
The problem is that you didn't share your intentions before the release. You lied that you were going to improve the rewards. That was clearly not the case in heroic, and it is still questionable in the lower tiers.
We should've known better than to expect it to be real, especially when every dev post about it was way to concerned about making sure we'd know the "guild currency will more than make up for the slightly less less gear"
I've never seen a company communicate with its customer base so much, and yet still manage to mess everything up. Don't get me wrong, we all appreciate the extra effort the team, most of all you, have been putting in in order to communicate. But if the communication is false or misleading that only hurts it more. Be honest with us. Lets face it, there was no way we were gonna be mistaken that the rewards were not an improvement. So instead you just came off as deceitful. If you all had just been honest about it to begin with, sure there would have been people upset. But you wouldn't have had nearly as many people being upset, and it would have died down eventually. This just leaves us with a sour taste in our mouth, across all levels of the player base.
Fiascos like these seem to happen way too often around here. I'm not gonna act like I know how to fix it, because I don't know how, that's the people's who are paid for this game problems, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is just a huge disconnect within the developer team.
Every time you get the people who say they are quitting, but the community begins to forget it... and then another one happens. Heck we were just getting over the sith raid rey jt nerf issue. It's getting harder and harder to take the plusses (increased communication and transparency, or whatever they are) without suspecting some kick in the *** following them. This theme can't go on forever.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
If you truly mean that, you should rollback the recent changes to raid rewards and properly take the time to do further changes. There is no reason these recent changes should have made it into the game, nonetheless stay here for an other 2 weeks. All this will do is discourage players from playing your game.
You guys are insane if you think @CG_Carrie will respond to any of this.
They're back to the same old same old. Give a "final day", toss up a double middle finger, and tell you to shut up and like it.
It's literally no different than it was with kozi.
This isn't about long term health or longevity of the game, it's about squeezing any juice out of the nut they can.
It's clear some bean counter saw the raid was on farm sooner than expected and decided people should be paying for that gear rather than getting it on a farmed raid. So the options were to nerf the raid again or nerf rewards. It's easy to nerf rewards and give some vague and undetailed explanation about stores in the future maybe getting g12 stuff to partially offset.
The fact is: for heroic raiders, in ALL ranks, the rewards are significantly worse than before. This won't be addressed, rather its lumped in with the teeeeeeny bump in lesser raid rewards. Again, it's a huge F U from CG to customers that pay in this game.
And nothing we can do but complain to a dead ear as they close communication again. So then "turning a corner" with the community was a lie, everything they said just over a week ago was a lie, the rest no reason to think they suddenly went be liars to their player base for the remainder of the game.
Problem is that this sort of rage and anger isn’t typical of smaller changes. They completely nerfed end game rewards while making no change to the raid to make it any easier.
They lied. This will have as much of an impact on their bottom line as mod gate did.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
Honestly, I don't think we need 2 weeks to know if this is bad or not. We can't keep kicking the same can down the same road and expect the view to be different. Better does not equal worse, in this or any other parallel dimension.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
@CG_Carrie I am a long time player (November 2015) so I’ve been around for a lot of changes in this game. I understand that balancing has to happen in certain instances (mod-gate and now STR-Rewards). What I don’t understand (and truly makes me question why I spend money on this game) is how these unbalanced mechanics get released in the first place. Whoever at CG makes the call to push these out is frankly not very good at their job. Or very good at their job if the objective is bait and switch to increase profits. I understand it’s a business, but these shady practices will bite you guys eventually. I really enjoy playing this game, but the way you guys treat the player base (like we are children who won’t understand your bait and switch tactics) really suck a lot of the fun out of it. If you screw up fine, but don’t **** on us and tell us it’s raining.
I may be in the minority here on these forums on this topic, but I am glad they made the changes they did. For people not able to do heroic sith raids, the vast gap in rewards between heroic tier and tiers 6 and less was very demoralizing.
.
.
.
Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
I fully understand what you are saying and agree with it. But I fear you underestimate what the announcement of exclusive gear means. That gap is only to widen more which is of course what they want. While I very much agree that the gap or rewarding several pieces of g12 was extreme at least for your 5 members of your arena team (plus some spare benchwarmers) you were on some kind of equal footing.
Now all your members that compete on the top of the arena will not only face Traya going forward but also face toons that have additional gear that they have no access whatsoever to. Given how powerful G12 was so far you can easily imagine how that will change the competitive landscape. Even on ships those gear pieces will probably give a few points more speed to ships fo dramatically change arena.
I'm not an actual developer, but it seems that this would fix things: Reverting a commit
I understand that this may not be the actual repository used, but isn't it that simple?
Because doing that would give the heroic ready player base 3 more weeks to obtain the “too generous” rewards for heroic sith raid before they officially nerf it in May. So they will pretend this fix is going to be more complicated than we think and they want to take their time to “ensure” they get it right.
Why ask these sorts of questions when you know the obvious answer?
I may be in the minority here on these forums on this topic, but I am glad they made the changes they did. For people not able to do heroic sith raids, the vast gap in rewards between heroic tier and tiers 6 and less was very demoralizing. It was something i mentioned in my survey I submitted and I am very glad CG listened to voices like mine and acted on it. I'm a 2.7 million GP player and I have JTR and other good teams for this raid. The morale in my guild of 87 million GP was dwindling drastically after seeing how much guilds of 125+ million GP were getting for completing the Heroic raid. It is taking us a long time to beat tier 5 mostly because we've only got maybe 5-6 of the guild having JTR.
Now take a minute to understand the issue here: these players (myself included in them) are all top rank players in arena competing against and beating players of similar caliber in those 125+ million GP guilds that have the sith heroic raid on farm. The fact that heroic raid rewards were granting multiple G12 fully crafted pieces was way to much when compared to how much players of similar GP were able to get in lower tiers. This was demoralizing as it was definitely a case of "the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer". There would be no way for players doing tier 6 and less to even come close to competing against heroic sith raid guilds players in a matter of weeks.......now take that and expand it to months and the gap is ridiculous. The heroic sith raid guilds players would have been so far and above the rest of those int he game that it would have cause people to leave this game for good.
If you thought match making was a nightmare before in TW, just think about the effects the old sith raid rewards would have had in skewing the gap in fair match making in TW setting guilds that were heroic sith raid guilds vs ones that were close but not quite there yet. The forums would be exploding with anger for months and players would leave because of diminishing morale.
I like the heroic raid rewards do give 1 fully crafted piece of G12 gear because that should be the incentive to reach heroic sith raids. but multiple G12 pieces was ridiculous and vastly unfair. It would have lead to many guilds breaking apart and TW/arena becoming a nightmare if the rewards weren't fixed to be more fair.
I get that a lot of people were used to getting the multiple G12 fully crafted pieces and that its suddenly being reduced is a bit of a shock. but your still getting way more that the rest of us that aren't in the heroic tiers, so don't get so greedy. Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
I respectfully disagree with you @obikenobi1 . This reminds me of when HAAT came on-line with GK shards. The mantra was that the GK guilds would dominate arena. All the guild jumping that went on then caused a lot of people to fall to the wayside who weren't HAAT ready. If you think the grass is greener elsewhere then who am I to stop you but there is, has, and will always be a big divide between the big name guilds and the working class guilds. The health of the game has always been, at least in my opinion, in finding the balance with being able to compete (a balance between F2P and P2P).
Gear is the bottle neck. It has to be there and I understand that. If it were too easy to get gear then the game would lose a sense of purpose and accomplishment when you devote some time to something. What I was hoping to see from the revamped rewards was some type of release valve to that gear hump. Removing challenge gear that I have 2000+ pieces of I thought would be a great step in the right direction. The multiple G12 pieces were the INCENTIVE to progress to HSITH.
Again I am not trying to keep pace with the mammoth guilds (150M+). There will always be that divide. That is never going away. I just want to be able to compete. To compete I need gear. With the update rewards it's another classic "one step forward, a thousand steps back" fiasco. That's an embellishment on my part but the Developers have done so many things in the past few months that I just flat out don't agree with.
From a guild leader perspective I just can not in good faith tell 49 other members that THIS reward change is good for any of us. Upping the guild currency and guild store currency only to then nerf the gear drop just defies logic in my book.
I've listened to many interviews with developers of this game. I got to shake EA Jesse's hand at a CON when he was still here. From everything that I've observed I really believe that the people involved in this game love Star Wars, and want to make a fun game. That's why it's baffling to me how they keep fumbling the ball so badly so often.
I appreciate all the extra communication from the devs lately. And it's been more than just talk. There have been plenty of meaningful improvements to the game I could list. But some how you guys manage to destroy any good will you create. The simple lessons here are: 1. Stop rushing out broken stuff. 2. Don't lie to us.
I've heard straight from the devs lips that there are people who's sole job is balancing the economy. All day long looking at data, and assessing the flow of widgets into the game. How were you off so badly? If the new nerfed rewards had come out with the raid originally we all would have grumbled a bit, and gotten over it especially when the next gear level was added on top of it. But after weeks of actually great rewards having them taken away becomes a giant disaster. And it's 100% self inflicted.
Currently the rewards for first place in the Heroic Sith Raid are worse than last place before. There is no way you can spin that unless you're delusional. To call that "improvements" is a bald faced lie. You threw gasoline on the dumpster fire you created by telling us you were going to do the opposite of what you were about to do. And even in your explanation post you keep avoiding responsibility. You didn't, 'make an oversight in wording' or whatever. You just lied.
If you had been more careful about what you released there would have been no real problem. If you release rewards that are too high, but told us that honestly, mentioned the actual positive changes that were coming with the nerf to soften it (more guild tokens, no challenge gear, new gear added next month, etc) then people would be upset, but would settle down eventually, and I for one would respect the honesty. As it is you make the worst decision every turn. I really want you guys to be around working on this game for a long time, but somebody has to start acting with some common sense.
Please just remember. Talking a lot isn't communication if what you're saying isn't true.
After some thinking I was going to post something this morning - but Jace said it so perfectly, there is almost nothing else to say.
The last line is so true:
Talking a lot isn't communication if what you're saying isn't true.
For 2+ years there has been a consistent "theme" on the forums. "Please just give us clear and honest communication." We are all smart enough to realize that you can't tell us everything (and you won't tell us certain things - like actual drop rates in packs, etc.) We also realize that the game needs to maintain balance and make money at the same time. But clear and honest communication goes a long way in building and maintaining trust. And yet CG continually ignores this primary requirement of all relationships. Tell us what you can - and just don't lie. It's not that difficult...but apparently, not possible. Any good will you had built up has been completely obliterated.
Honestly, I'm more disappointed than angry. Partially with CG - and partially with myself, for thinking that "this time, it will be different." Apparently I was wrong.
Wanted to RT both. So well said and true.
2 plus years of constantly thinking things will improve, things will get better. I have always tried to see the bigger picture or at least tried to understand the process of forces not seen. But when is enough, enough?
Leaving for a month , the game , the discord, and the forums and coming back I was like wow look at all this effort of improved communication. Apparently not. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I should go away again for the greater good of the forum and the game.
It’s a shame all the great people I have interacted with through guilds , the forum, endless discord servers and line rooms. The community makes this game worth it. Don’t let anyone tell you different. No chance I would still be playing with out the community. No chance I would have ever spent money on a game thinking I’m helping my guild and myself.
The only stable thing that has come from the endless promises of “better communication” has been that it will never come into fruition.
As Nik has been saying the majority of people really displeased are very long term players.
If guilds are lucky and good enough to have the raid on farm it’s not the players problem they are only using the tools that the devs provided. Balancing issues like character power/opness has been a long conversation through the years. From a business stand point toons that are created to do well and better than others are available for money. Players buy them for those reasons(yay) and then you take away a reason away why they bought them. C’mon.
I may be in the minority here on these forums on this topic, but I am glad they made the changes they did. For people not able to do heroic sith raids, the vast gap in rewards between heroic tier and tiers 6 and less was very demoralizing.
.
.
.
Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
I fully understand what you are saying and agree with it. But I fear you underestimate what the announcement of exclusive gear means. That gap is only to widen more which is of course what they want. While I very much agree that the gap or rewarding several pieces of g12 was extreme at least for your 5 members of your arena team (plus some spare benchwarmers) you were on some kind of equal footing.
Now all your members that compete on the top of the arena will not only face Traya going forward but also face toons that have additional gear that they have no access whatsoever to. Given how powerful G12 was so far you can easily imagine how that will change the competitive landscape. Even on ships those gear pieces will probably give a few points more speed to ships fo dramatically change arena.
No, the gap will not close. It will widen.
My hope is that they will consider maybe having some/if not all of the exclusive gear being available in the Guild event store for purchase at higher cost of currency than the current G12 pieces. That way people can get those pieces and upgrade a few of their characters, but not at the rate of those getting those pieces in the heroic raid. the incentive to be in the top 3 to get more guild event currency would do a lot to make people work hard to get that so they could get those gear pieces quicker and not be swept away in arena and ship arena. I think this is a totally reasonable solution and I hope the devs consider yours and mine concerns over the exlusive gear drops. there will still be a gap between players but at least there is a way to shorten that gap if those pieces aren't absolutely exlusive to heroic sith raid. I thin it would actually do a lot of good to include those pieces in the Guild event store as it would motivate smaller guilds to do better in TB to get more currency to spend on those pieces.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
I wouldn't want to respond to everyone either. You dangled all that gold to get people motivated to try this raid, that requires a ton of effort for people to learn the mechanics. The one thing that kept me motivated, you took away. Then instead of just coming out and saying the rewards were too good you covered it with lies and promises of equal currency which you had NO intentions of matching what so ever. Your communication is worse here not better at all.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
The thing is that there are actually 2 problems here.
1) The raid rewards being drastically nerfed
2) Players being lied to
You could have avoided at least 1 problem by not lying to the player base and instead being honest upfront saying that raid rewards would be nerfed (still a problem but only 1 not 2). This would have at least let you keep some of the goodwill you were building.
CG current business model of overreach and dial back is exactly what's being taught in political science and business classes in almost every college in America right now. It's how you get incremental movement to your goals. Make them mad by going to point C fron point A then say we screwed up and implement point B. Then the next time you go from B to D and dial back to C. Zuckerberg testimony about Facebook is exactly the same. It's just privacy vs game rewards.
snip..........We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment................
Please, if sentiment had anything at all to do with what we are sold, your forums and player base would not be at this low an ebb.
Not all of us buy the new communicate blag, over the quite obvious hierarchy roundtable that came from the EA as SW game providers pride & accomplishment debacle.
Blue in the face talking about the real underlying issue, which remains: value for money.
Mind I am still upset to see the playerbase moving to other games.
Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.
I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.
We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.
roll it back and test it out yourselves and then come back in May when the new gears are ready and then Word out what changes and why they are needed. Not fake us saying improvements are coming, these aren't improvements
Replies
I might add it is only a partial fix (still way worse than before after the fix) and only for heroic the nerfed rewards on the lower tiers will stay.
https://swgoh.gg/g/6666/wieaiaieliegi0e/
Now take a minute to understand the issue here: these players (myself included in them) are all top rank players in arena competing against and beating players of similar caliber in those 125+ million GP guilds that have the sith heroic raid on farm. The fact that heroic raid rewards were granting multiple G12 fully crafted pieces was way to much when compared to how much players of similar GP were able to get in lower tiers. This was demoralizing as it was definitely a case of "the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer". There would be no way for players doing tier 6 and less to even come close to competing against heroic sith raid guilds players in a matter of weeks.......now take that and expand it to months and the gap is ridiculous. The heroic sith raid guilds players would have been so far and above the rest of those int he game that it would have cause people to leave this game for good.
If you thought match making was a nightmare before in TW, just think about the effects the old sith raid rewards would have had in skewing the gap in fair match making in TW setting guilds that were heroic sith raid guilds vs ones that were close but not quite there yet. The forums would be exploding with anger for months and players would leave because of diminishing morale.
I like the heroic raid rewards do give 1 fully crafted piece of G12 gear because that should be the incentive to reach heroic sith raids. but multiple G12 pieces was ridiculous and vastly unfair. It would have lead to many guilds breaking apart and TW/arena becoming a nightmare if the rewards weren't fixed to be more fair.
I get that a lot of people were used to getting the multiple G12 fully crafted pieces and that its suddenly being reduced is a bit of a shock. but your still getting way more that the rest of us that aren't in the heroic tiers, so don't get so greedy. Take a minute to understand the impact that the vast discrepencies there were in raid rewards between heroic sith raid and tier 6 and less rewards and I think you'll realize that for the good of this game and the community as a whole, this was totally needed and I thank CG for listening to the players expressing concerns over this issue.
This is just not true @CG_Carrie you said you would be improving raid rewards to bring them in line with the effort involved and from our perspective you have done exactly the opposite.
I understand that this may not be the actual repository used, but isn't it that simple?
Nearly everyone is saying the same thing. These changes contradict the sentiment of the April 2 posting. You set expectations by saying rewards will be better because it is such a hard raid. You have achieved the exact opposite effect. The only change we needed was to remove challenge gear. That's all.
But the change does solve nothing as lower tier rewards have been shafted as well, the gap ist still there and its still almost if not the same gap. All that is reached is that EVERYBODY advances slower now than before...
https://swgoh.gg/g/6666/wieaiaieliegi0e/
More vague lies.
The problem is that you didn't share your intentions before the release. You lied that you were going to improve the rewards. That was clearly not the case in heroic, and it is still questionable in the lower tiers.
We should've known better than to expect it to be real, especially when every dev post about it was way to concerned about making sure we'd know the "guild currency will more than make up for the slightly less less gear"
I've never seen a company communicate with its customer base so much, and yet still manage to mess everything up. Don't get me wrong, we all appreciate the extra effort the team, most of all you, have been putting in in order to communicate. But if the communication is false or misleading that only hurts it more. Be honest with us. Lets face it, there was no way we were gonna be mistaken that the rewards were not an improvement. So instead you just came off as deceitful. If you all had just been honest about it to begin with, sure there would have been people upset. But you wouldn't have had nearly as many people being upset, and it would have died down eventually. This just leaves us with a sour taste in our mouth, across all levels of the player base.
Fiascos like these seem to happen way too often around here. I'm not gonna act like I know how to fix it, because I don't know how, that's the people's who are paid for this game problems, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is just a huge disconnect within the developer team.
Every time you get the people who say they are quitting, but the community begins to forget it... and then another one happens. Heck we were just getting over the sith raid rey jt nerf issue. It's getting harder and harder to take the plusses (increased communication and transparency, or whatever they are) without suspecting some kick in the *** following them. This theme can't go on forever.
If you truly mean that, you should rollback the recent changes to raid rewards and properly take the time to do further changes. There is no reason these recent changes should have made it into the game, nonetheless stay here for an other 2 weeks. All this will do is discourage players from playing your game.
Problem is that this sort of rage and anger isn’t typical of smaller changes. They completely nerfed end game rewards while making no change to the raid to make it any easier.
They lied. This will have as much of an impact on their bottom line as mod gate did.
Honestly, I don't think we need 2 weeks to know if this is bad or not. We can't keep kicking the same can down the same road and expect the view to be different. Better does not equal worse, in this or any other parallel dimension.
10min autoplay in Rancorraid better rewards than rank 1 inT5 Sithraid (runs 3 days..)
Awesome Job!
@CG_Carrie I am a long time player (November 2015) so I’ve been around for a lot of changes in this game. I understand that balancing has to happen in certain instances (mod-gate and now STR-Rewards). What I don’t understand (and truly makes me question why I spend money on this game) is how these unbalanced mechanics get released in the first place. Whoever at CG makes the call to push these out is frankly not very good at their job. Or very good at their job if the objective is bait and switch to increase profits. I understand it’s a business, but these shady practices will bite you guys eventually. I really enjoy playing this game, but the way you guys treat the player base (like we are children who won’t understand your bait and switch tactics) really suck a lot of the fun out of it. If you screw up fine, but don’t **** on us and tell us it’s raining.
I fully understand what you are saying and agree with it. But I fear you underestimate what the announcement of exclusive gear means. That gap is only to widen more which is of course what they want. While I very much agree that the gap or rewarding several pieces of g12 was extreme at least for your 5 members of your arena team (plus some spare benchwarmers) you were on some kind of equal footing.
Now all your members that compete on the top of the arena will not only face Traya going forward but also face toons that have additional gear that they have no access whatsoever to. Given how powerful G12 was so far you can easily imagine how that will change the competitive landscape. Even on ships those gear pieces will probably give a few points more speed to ships fo dramatically change arena.
No, the gap will not close. It will widen.
Because doing that would give the heroic ready player base 3 more weeks to obtain the “too generous” rewards for heroic sith raid before they officially nerf it in May. So they will pretend this fix is going to be more complicated than we think and they want to take their time to “ensure” they get it right.
Why ask these sorts of questions when you know the obvious answer?
I respectfully disagree with you @obikenobi1 . This reminds me of when HAAT came on-line with GK shards. The mantra was that the GK guilds would dominate arena. All the guild jumping that went on then caused a lot of people to fall to the wayside who weren't HAAT ready. If you think the grass is greener elsewhere then who am I to stop you but there is, has, and will always be a big divide between the big name guilds and the working class guilds. The health of the game has always been, at least in my opinion, in finding the balance with being able to compete (a balance between F2P and P2P).
Gear is the bottle neck. It has to be there and I understand that. If it were too easy to get gear then the game would lose a sense of purpose and accomplishment when you devote some time to something. What I was hoping to see from the revamped rewards was some type of release valve to that gear hump. Removing challenge gear that I have 2000+ pieces of I thought would be a great step in the right direction. The multiple G12 pieces were the INCENTIVE to progress to HSITH.
Again I am not trying to keep pace with the mammoth guilds (150M+). There will always be that divide. That is never going away. I just want to be able to compete. To compete I need gear. With the update rewards it's another classic "one step forward, a thousand steps back" fiasco. That's an embellishment on my part but the Developers have done so many things in the past few months that I just flat out don't agree with.
From a guild leader perspective I just can not in good faith tell 49 other members that THIS reward change is good for any of us. Upping the guild currency and guild store currency only to then nerf the gear drop just defies logic in my book.
Wanted to RT both. So well said and true.
2 plus years of constantly thinking things will improve, things will get better. I have always tried to see the bigger picture or at least tried to understand the process of forces not seen. But when is enough, enough?
Leaving for a month , the game , the discord, and the forums and coming back I was like wow look at all this effort of improved communication. Apparently not. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I should go away again for the greater good of the forum and the game.
It’s a shame all the great people I have interacted with through guilds , the forum, endless discord servers and line rooms. The community makes this game worth it. Don’t let anyone tell you different. No chance I would still be playing with out the community. No chance I would have ever spent money on a game thinking I’m helping my guild and myself.
The only stable thing that has come from the endless promises of “better communication” has been that it will never come into fruition.
As Nik has been saying the majority of people really displeased are very long term players.
If guilds are lucky and good enough to have the raid on farm it’s not the players problem they are only using the tools that the devs provided. Balancing issues like character power/opness has been a long conversation through the years. From a business stand point toons that are created to do well and better than others are available for money. Players buy them for those reasons(yay) and then you take away a reason away why they bought them. C’mon.
CG just can’t give you something without clawing something else back.
My hope is that they will consider maybe having some/if not all of the exclusive gear being available in the Guild event store for purchase at higher cost of currency than the current G12 pieces. That way people can get those pieces and upgrade a few of their characters, but not at the rate of those getting those pieces in the heroic raid. the incentive to be in the top 3 to get more guild event currency would do a lot to make people work hard to get that so they could get those gear pieces quicker and not be swept away in arena and ship arena. I think this is a totally reasonable solution and I hope the devs consider yours and mine concerns over the exlusive gear drops. there will still be a gap between players but at least there is a way to shorten that gap if those pieces aren't absolutely exlusive to heroic sith raid. I thin it would actually do a lot of good to include those pieces in the Guild event store as it would motivate smaller guilds to do better in TB to get more currency to spend on those pieces.
The north remembers.
I wouldn't want to respond to everyone either. You dangled all that gold to get people motivated to try this raid, that requires a ton of effort for people to learn the mechanics. The one thing that kept me motivated, you took away. Then instead of just coming out and saying the rewards were too good you covered it with lies and promises of equal currency which you had NO intentions of matching what so ever. Your communication is worse here not better at all.
The thing is that there are actually 2 problems here.
1) The raid rewards being drastically nerfed
2) Players being lied to
You could have avoided at least 1 problem by not lying to the player base and instead being honest upfront saying that raid rewards would be nerfed (still a problem but only 1 not 2). This would have at least let you keep some of the goodwill you were building.
Not all of us buy the new communicate blag, over the quite obvious hierarchy roundtable that came from the EA as SW game providers pride & accomplishment debacle.
Blue in the face talking about the real underlying issue, which remains: value for money.
Mind I am still upset to see the playerbase moving to other games.
roll it back and test it out yourselves and then come back in May when the new gears are ready and then Word out what changes and why they are needed. Not fake us saying improvements are coming, these aren't improvements