Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

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  • Options
    I agree and welcome these kinds of changes, it’s always good to level out the plainfield and make it equally difficult for everyone. Specially for those at the top, as they’re the ones getting those good rewards( gear 12 special gear pieces, special event tokens, and Traya shards). I don’t have Traya yet, and by the looks of it, I won’t have her for a long time, but it is what it is.
  • Guest
    518 posts Member
    edited July 2018
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    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain it all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
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    Fives5555 wrote: »
    This is a perfect example of the devs acting like the kid that turns off the video game right before they lose. We find a flaw in their bogus raid and they’re like “we’ll show them by nerfing everything”. Just them showing their true colors
    More like them saving the integrity of a game that is too difficult/complicated to predict every detail of.
  • Options
    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?
  • Xcrit9
    108 posts Member
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    All they have to do is change how isolate works against raid bosses nothing else needs to be changed
  • Guest
    518 posts Member
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    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?

    No, I would say that the change must occur on Assaj's lead but so that this effect can only happen once per turn. That is the only change that should be made and that wouldn't create an impact on the NS in P4.
  • kalidor
    2124 posts Member
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    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain it all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    No, the real problem is that they're rushing to fix a loophole that almost no one can actually use, rather than addressing the many issues faced by the majority of the playbase - poor rewards <HSTR, top 10 rewards for HSTR, time investment, RNG-restarts, etc.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • Options
    Guest wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?

    No, I would say that the change must occur on Assaj's lead but so that this effect can only happen once per turn. That is the only change that should be made and that wouldn't create an impact on the NS in P4.

    Here’s to hoping then. No matter what anything that changes from asajj , even if it doesn’t affect p4, is going to have people asking for refunds.
  • Options
    Guest wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?

    No, I would say that the change must occur on Assaj's lead but so that this effect can only happen once per turn. That is the only change that should be made and that wouldn't create an impact on the NS in P4.

    Except you could also fix the issue by leaving Nightsisters alone entirely and just changing the buff allies get when they hit an Isolated raid boss. Nightsisters aren’t overtuned and don’t need fixing.
  • locodiel
    92 posts Member
    edited July 2018
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    Dralkyr wrote: »
    locodiel wrote: »
    Viserys wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    I don't understand them wanting to fix this. I think being able to kind of sort of beat most of one character from one phase with a team that requires the raid reward character at 7* is absurd. If you have 7* Treya then you spent months beating it the hard way. Getting a little relief by autoing most of 1/12 of the raid is not unreasonable. I fully support any rioting/looting due to this petty change.

    They've always made it clear that they won't stand for infinite loops in the game, and this fits the bill pretty close.

    But if they ruin AV's leadership to fix this, I'll be livid.

    What is „infinite“? Today I attacked a Traya lead team in arena and after 2 minutes it was my CLS against opponents DN. For 3 minutes I watched CLS taking turns, attacking, stunning, removing TM ... DN didn’t take a turn at all. But due to his unique zeta and Traya lead he became immortal. This could have gone forever. Infinite if it wasn’t for the time limit. The game is full of deadlocks.

    How does DN unique zeta play into this? The only thing that would do anything on CLS' turn is the "At the start of each enemy turn, Nihilus inflicts Health Down on them for 2 turns" which doesn't seem to do anything new under DT lead.

    Exactly this. The debuff, it’s health down btw, inflicts damage and DN regenerates 10% health. At this point he already gained additional max health. You will notice it when you see that a 30k Hit does no damage at all.
  • Options
    Honestly, it was the community that screwed up the rewards... they were the same across the board at on launc, but for some reason the community
  • Guest
    518 posts Member
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    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?

    No, I would say that the change must occur on Assaj's lead but so that this effect can only happen once per turn. That is the only change that should be made and that wouldn't create an impact on the NS in P4.

    Except you could also fix the issue by leaving Nightsisters alone entirely and just changing the buff allies get when they hit an Isolated raid boss. Nightsisters aren’t overtuned and don’t need fixing.

    Since this change won't change anything to you, I don't see the point of not having it done while Isolate might be useful this way on other part of the raid(s). Plus, having a 7* Traya is actually very hard for people so I wouldn't see a nerf happen to her.

    And yes, I know rewards sucks since I get them as well.
  • Options
    It really seems like every time someone finds a way to use older toons to beat the raid. They nerf the team/mechanic. And then they add all these new toons that have brand new fancy buffs and powers, that cost money.

    At this point people just need to stop sharing what works in the HSTR haha. We are a 90m guild growing, and we do T4 cuz it’s just tedious and boring till more people get JTR to even attempt heroic. Also the rewards are terrible. At least put the GET back in.
  • Options
    Without acolyte... attack 50% TM... Without her there is likely a healer ready now... heal, attack... 50% TM... when I run Zombie/Talia/Acolyte or Talzin, there are lots of times they get the boost twice in a turn.
  • Options
    Guess I'll have to break out lobot and see if something can be done there, I will have to spend ages farming him but I'll take the hit for the community.

    Could be worse guys, we could be playing Marvel Strike Force. CG knows it too.

    Hey, it's still better than MSF
  • 3PO
    32 posts Member
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    Infinite turn supply and demand is only possible with Traya. Why is NS mentioned only? it does not form an infinite turn by NS self. The development team got the wrong direction.A lot of users have grown NS for a long time.
    Do not fill in the lack of design with the pain of the user.
  • Options
    Guest wrote: »
    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    Guest wrote: »
    I'm not sure any of you understand what's the problem in here. The thing is not about Isolate on raid boss but about the combination of it with Assaj's lead and Acolyte unique and basic. All of that combine make her go to 100% health, lose it all because of bonds of weakness, gain hit all on a second heal and lose it all again. Which make her gain 50% TM two times so that she's in a loop.

    Would it be more prudent and beneficial to change the ability on acolyte then?

    No, I would say that the change must occur on Assaj's lead but so that this effect can only happen once per turn. That is the only change that should be made and that wouldn't create an impact on the NS in P4.

    Except you could also fix the issue by leaving Nightsisters alone entirely and just changing the buff allies get when they hit an Isolated raid boss. Nightsisters aren’t overtuned and don’t need fixing.

    Since this change won't change anything to you, I don't see the point of not having it done while Isolate might be useful this way on other part of the raid(s). Plus, having a 7* Traya is actually very hard for people so I wouldn't see a nerf happen to her.

    And yes, I know rewards sucks since I get them as well.

    I have Traya and will have her at seven stars soon. I wouldn’t run this team because I want my guildmates to get more shards once I get Traya maxed. You don’t know how such a change might affect other teams or other game modes until they actually implement it, and that is the big worry here. Their track record when fixing these things suggests they will find a way to mess up a squad many of us like playing and that is essential for this raid when there is a simpler fix available.

    Isolate can continue to be useful if you simply change the buff it gives from health steal up to something like crit damage up or armor penetration up or any number of other effects. And no risk of messing up an established team and causing the forums to explode with renewed outrage and indignation.
  • Options
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Fives5555 wrote: »
    This is a perfect example of the devs acting like the kid that turns off the video game right before they lose. We find a flaw in their bogus raid and they’re like “we’ll show them by nerfing everything”. Just them showing their true colors
    More like them saving the integrity of a game that is too difficult/complicated to predict every detail of.

    If they wanted to save the integrity of the game then they would’ve been better at communicating with community, release more legendary events/characters we want and not sacrifice customer happiness for making quick money and making everyone upset
  • Teague
    939 posts Member
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    Either adjust what isolate does to raid bosses, or make them immune to isolate entirely. This doesn't seem like a NS issue to me.

    I use Ventress lead in arena. Now I have to sit back and pray they don't nerf it. All because Traya is creating a infinite loop in a boring raid. Smh
  • Bulldog1205
    3573 posts Member
    edited July 2018
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    I
    RunchGwar wrote: »
    If CG changes the way Isolate works with Raid Bosses, fine. If they nerf Asajj's leadership so that Nightsisters as a whole get nerfed for P4? There will be fire and brimstone.

    Is it ok to change that though? To nerf the hardest character in the game to acquire? It was established months ago what Traya does to raid bosses. Now you make her less valuable after millions have spent time and effort to get her?
  • Options
    I
    RunchGwar wrote: »
    If CG changes the way Isolate works with Raid Bosses, fine. If they nerf Asajj's leadership so that Nightsisters as a whole get nerfed for P4? There will be fire and brimstone.

    Is it ok to change that though? To nerf the hardest character in the game? It was established months ago what Traya does to raid bosses. Now you make her less valuable after millions have spent time and effort to get her?

    It’s not a nerf if you just change the buff it gives. Not like health steal up was some crucial buff that everyone was hotly anticipating.
  • Dralkyr
    457 posts Member
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    Glauron wrote: »
    We need a straw poll - if they nerf Asajj leadership so it isn't useful in HSTR P4, will you demand a zeta refund? I sure will! It is literally the only really good reason to get her zeta, and they have had to refund in the past.

    Straws are illegal in California, so good luck ;)
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
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    I
    RunchGwar wrote: »
    If CG changes the way Isolate works with Raid Bosses, fine. If they nerf Asajj's leadership so that Nightsisters as a whole get nerfed for P4? There will be fire and brimstone.

    Is it ok to change that though? To nerf the hardest character in the game to acquire? It was established months ago what Traya does to raid bosses. Now you make her less valuable after millions have spent time and effort to get her?

    Yeah, her value was never her health steal in raids. Not by a long shot. This new combo was just introduced, barely on your radar except for the past few days.

    Hardly a nerf if you didn’t build up towards that function.
  • Options
    Don’t have Traya, probably won’t for a very long time. It takes our guild more than a week to clear tier 4. BUT my NSis do this, on a small scale. I get maybe 4 turns in a row a few times with Aco under my ZZSajj. I still never clear more than 1.2M with the team.


    I think this is terrible. Leave it be and quit taking away all the things we find to make a terrible raid just a smidge more fun.
  • Options
    Well it’s a Friday afternoon so guarantee the hot fix is not well thought out and likely breaks something else that is working as intended.
  • Monel
    2789 posts Member
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    Dralkyr wrote: »
    Glauron wrote: »
    We need a straw poll - if they nerf Asajj leadership so it isn't useful in HSTR P4, will you demand a zeta refund? I sure will! It is literally the only really good reason to get her zeta, and they have had to refund in the past.

    Straws are illegal in California, so good luck ;)

    Lol, not entirely. Just have to ask for permission to use 1
  • Options
    Rather than CG communicating that this will not be a NS nerf they are keeping silent.
  • Mzee
    1777 posts Member
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    Doesn't take long to fix mechanics they deem exploits, but then a lot of bugs just take forever to get fixed...
  • Monel
    2789 posts Member
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    t0neg0d wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Viserys wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.

    It's more like removing the wheel and saying "Drive something else" -- that is if they wreck the NS team comp in the process of this. Their record of fixing these sorts of issues leads most of us to believe they will just hit the NS team with a hammer when they can almost certainly find a much much more elegant solution to this.

    The issue that has players worried isn't that they'll block this infinite loop -- which they absolutely should because it is nonsense. It is that they will fix this by ruining a team many of us spent considerable resources building and that many people are actively working toward. When the Acolyte strategy emerged, the vast majority of seasoned players knew it was going to be nerfed - it's just a neat novelty. But those same seasoned players immediately recognized that the nerf might destroy something they are using, and do have.

    Ok remove the wheel from a Bentley, I still dont drive one. And to the people complaining about "IF" get over it, cause it hasn't happened.

    I am going to starting complaining to the sun "if" it decides to shine tomorrow my day will be ruined.

    Cookie for consistantly missing the point.

    1. We rely on Asajj led NS to take down HSTR.
    2. This "infinte loop" revolves around isolate (a traya skill), but is being stated as an asajj/acolyte issue.

    The "if" in this case is a major deal & the notification is pointing at the wrong characters to fix this issue.

    I'm at a loss for how you are missing this... some of us have (or almost have) a Bentley. If this fix isn't handled properly, we'll be the last ones that do for a while.

    Not sure how I am missing the point. You are complaining about something that hasn't happen. You keep using the word IF. If is not something to worry about. If it happens then I'll worry, the outrage over something that hasn't happened is silly. Something that hasn't happened is the same as nothing.

    I get you dont care about the Traya aspect. But nothing has happened to NS yet, so there is nothing worry about yet. Maybe there will be, maybe there wont be. All I am saying is no need to worry about something that hasn't happened yet.

    Maybe I am just of a more sunny disposition than most.
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