Thank you CG, this will minimise frustration and thanks for listening, I still think you need to consider some tweaks to Phase 3 Heroic in my opinion as one of those players that has done thousands of retries, for me that's the most frustrating phase in the game, and the guild tends to hit a go slow wall on hitting this phase..
I think these changes are great!
I can't wait to try the sith raid with those modification.
And FINALLY !! You removed those annoying rewards no one wants and thats been plaguing me for a year! If there is a reward you can be sure thats what I'll get... so good riddance bad rewards.
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
Or just change the description, to match the requirements, instead of changing the raid to match a text field?
Also, the requirements are broken peetty much everywhere in the game, assault battles, legendaries, other events.. My theory is that because CG does not test any of these before rolling out, so naturally they have no idea of the real requirements. (and are lacking quality workers, to revisit even afterwards.)
"Intended for" is not a description, it's a design requirement. It's what you start with in real world. And yes, when you design a train instead of a car you were asked for, you are expected to start over.
So much this. It's bull that I throw a g8 jtr (with g10/11 scav rey, bb8, finn) at phase 1 tier3 and notice that I'm putting a much more massive dent than what my g12 cls rebels pull off purely because every tier is designed with heroic tier teams in mind.
I'm not expecting g12 cls rebels to perform as good as a heroic jtr team, but I do expect them to put a sizeable dent in a boss scaled for toons 4+ gear levels lower. What is the point in that investment gearing those toons up if they're ineffective? What's the point of a guild even trying if they literally cannot have unlocked any of the mandatory heroic teams yet 100% need those teams for a reasonable completion time?
Honestly I think the reason the devs saw non heroic guilds taking up to a week to clear the raid is because they are doing the raid 1-3 tiers lower than they should be for their gp level. If we weren't all going for the lower tier they'd probably see guilds averaging 1 completion every 2 weeks.
Honestly to close the massive power gap that has exponentially grown as a result the non-heroic loot boxes will have to always drop fully crafted hpit/haat raid gear. Short of that I don't think the power gap will ever be shrunk (unless they decide that hsith rewards need to be nerfed even further)
Yes! THANK YOU FOR LISTENING, the two biggest issues with STR are being addressed and a couple others to boot this is HUGE!
I would suggest not reducing Sion's health actually though or a much smaller decrease than for the others, he is the one enjoyable part of the raid, the others yes so needed indeed.
The one thing I hope you will also consider is to put some extra credits in the reward tiers because they are too low in comparison to Rancor and Tank (guild currency is pretty fair).
Also to that end, there needs to be more incentive to fight from one reward tier to the next one. As it is now, moving from #13 to #9 for example you only see a tiny TINY increase in Guild currency & Credits, like 1%! This is ridiculous, and does not match Tank or Rancor Raids at all someone dropped the ball here, the increase in those raids in those currencies from tier to tier is more like 3-5% which IS actually an incentive, 1% no one wants to bother!!! (Its not even motivating going from #22 to #9 the way it is now, which means people won't bother and added time to raid then because they skip it or just auto it)
Thank you again @CG_SBCrumb and CG for listening this will greatly improve the experience
I would suggest not reducing Sion's health actually though or a much smaller decrease than for the others, he is the one enjoyable part of the raid, the others yes so needed indeed.
I agree with this. Each phase takes my guild about a day or even two. Except Sion. He gets obliterated in about 2 hours.
The rest of the changes sound great, but hopefully you do pay attention to what challenge gear everyone has stacked up, and what few pieces are actually useful.
I dont understand why heroic rewards for ranks 11-50 arent being improved.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
It’s pretty simple. Creating an incentive to finish top 10 in the raid keeps whale guilds competing amongst themselves and spending money.
Not really, ever since the reward revamp it did the exact opposite, reducing the participation in the heroic sith raid dramatically. Unless you know you are competing in the top 10 there is no point in wasting your time on it, unless your in a guild that just started clearing it and still needs the entire guilds contribution to clear it. As of the revamp we have 10-20 people posting 0's, 10-20 doing an auto battle or hitting one phase, and the top 20 players that have a shot to be in the 10 rankings nuking the raid.
What if they just lower the defense of bosses in p1,p3,p4. Either get rid of the protection nihilus gets or or the fact his ignores protection. It's the only place in the game where protection doesn't matter and modding characters for this seems ridiculous. P2 is totally fine and doesn't need any adjustments. Also could bring back traya's topple for p4
What about Nihilus' gaining purple protection? Also the fact that he ignores protection makes a run on phase 1 and phase 4 with Nihilus almost unbearable.
I feel like we are trying to barter with Jabba, standing on a trap door, without a thermal detonator.
Ha. I know right.
I mean I like what they're saying and for those asking when and why so long I'm less concerned with that. I figure they'll only tinker with it one more time so I hope they get it right. Two major things I see here that could make this fix less than desired.
1) Most guilds right now that are not doing Heroic are likely doing a tier much lower than they are probably built for due to the time to complete and garbage rewards. I.e. a guild that could do tier 5 per the requirements listed is probably doing tier 3. I know that's how it is in my guild. We cold probably do tier 5 per what is listed, but it would take 2 weeks. As of right now we are doing tier 3 in a little under a week. So if they adjust HP/protection/mechanics/etc based on current data it may not meet the mark in helping non-heroics progress
2) Saying they will remove challenge gear scares me without seeing the list of gear that may stay. I man no one would be too upset with some fully formed Cabs am I right? Heroic is for farming G11 and G12 gear in my mind. Any guild doing heroic probably is doing Haat and Hpit to get lower gear level gear as well. Non-heroic STR should get you g8-g10 gear with maybe some salvage g11 towards higher tiers and of course the chance for completed pieces of any g8-g11 the higher you rank and the higher the tier. What should those pieces be? It's easy. Run a query in your DB and see which pieces 80% of the player population has 1,000 or more of salvage pieces and don't include those. They are obviously easier to farm elsewhere.
And if no one noticed in phase 4 they still have our health regen nerf at 50 bonds but I guess it wasn’t important to inform the community. I refuse to break up my BH synergy to add a toon for bond removal.
Question to the rest here: Have you noticed with each run of SRT you are turning in almost the exact same numbers, and it's basically gridlock? How is this random (RNG)? In each phase I run the same teams and come extremely close to putting in the same numbers, as do others. I am not even sure how they could change this mechanics wise. Anyone else notice this? It's been suggested popular teams are capped and cannot exceed a predetermined amount?
Question to the rest here: Have you noticed with each run of SRT you are turning in almost the exact same numbers, and it's basically gridlock? How is this random (RNG)? In each phase I run the same teams and come extremely close to putting in the same numbers, as do others. I am not even sure how they could change this mechanics wise. Anyone else notice this? It's been suggested popular teams are capped and cannot exceed a predetermined amount?
Not sure about that, the data would be interesting to see. I do know that my teams, run on auto average about the same, but then again, I just complete my chore and move on with my day.
Question to the rest here: Have you noticed with each run of SRT you are turning in almost the exact same numbers, and it's basically gridlock? How is this random (RNG)? In each phase I run the same teams and come extremely close to putting in the same numbers, as do others. I am not even sure how they could change this mechanics wise. Anyone else notice this? It's been suggested popular teams are capped and cannot exceed a predetermined amount?
I don’t think that is true, we have not seen that at all in our crew.
Ya the only rng I get is trying to figure out what ability DN will use when he has more than 2 abilities on cool down. And the cap seems true as well. Go up in gear and still same damage or that magical run that you can’t get any crits.
I have a great idea let’s make a raid wait almost 1 year then slowly release the most viable toons extremely slow and then make it take another 6 to 8 months to level them up. All after realizing the mechanics in place exceed the active characters that are already in game play. Someone needs a marketing check .
Here’s a suggestion: how about giving a couple more bounty hunters the ability to remove bonds of weakness. As far as I can tell cad bane is the only one that can.
While your making changes to sith raid can you revert the nerf to expose? That would help guilds clear all tiers quicker.
But really. When they first recognized that there was a problem with JTR being nearly the only thing that worked in p1/p4, instead of nerfing expose—which also nerfed other teams in other raids and did absolutely nothing for any other team in STR—they should have just lowered the darn STR health pool. This would have made other teams' contributions more significant as a percentage while slightly toning down the huge advantage of JTR. Problem solved.
Instead, they chose the ham-fisted solution instead of the one that everyone except the devs was saying was the right one and that they'd need to make anyway down the road.
I want to feel good about these changes that are finally coming (if they're done right and sufficiently), but CG has lost the benefit of the doubt from me because of how long it's taken them to come to this conclusion when they had the collective angst of nearly the entire community telling them exactly what was wrong with it FOR SIX MONTHS.
While your making changes to sith raid can you revert the nerf to expose? That would help guilds clear all tiers quicker.
But really. When they first recognized that there was a problem with JTR being nearly the only thing that worked in p1/p4, instead of nerfing expose—which also nerfed other teams in other raids and did absolutely nothing for any other team in STR—they should have just lowered the darn STR health pool. This would have made other teams' contributions more significant as a percentage while slightly toning down the huge advantage of JTR. Problem solved.
Instead, they chose the ham-fisted solution instead of the one that everyone except the devs was saying was the right one and that they'd need to make anyway down the road.
I want to feel good about these changes that are finally coming (if they're done right and sufficiently), but CG has lost the benefit of the doubt from me because of how long it's taken them to come to this conclusion when they had the collective angst of nearly the entire community telling them exactly what was wrong with it FOR SIX MONTHS.
The biggest irony to the jtr nerf was that when she returned they were all "we want to see how more jtr in the wild impact completion time" straight up acknowledging that even post nerf she was the only viable leader for some phases if you wanted to do any meaningful damage.
Either jtr originally outshines other equally viable teams that result in a reasonable completion time or she is the linchpin to reasonable completion times but they wanted it both ways.
How about a reward / ticket earning rate scaling factor, so we can do raids 1/2 or 1/3 as often but when completed we get 2x or 3x the rewards ?
The Tickets dividing scaling factor would be set (or re-set) at raid launch times and would scale the rewards by the same number (1, 2, 3, or 4) for that raid. Details can be figured out to prevent abuse or loopholes, but it would be a great Quality of Life change imo.
This is definitely a welcome change. I can’t wait to see how it works in real game play. Though I feel that a lot of the frustration and restarts (at least in my experience) comes down equally to an unbalanced tenacity load on the characters. So many other teams could be viable in multiple phases if the chance of landing a debuff wasn’t minuscule to impossible.
This is definitely a welcome change. I can’t wait to see how it works in real game play. Though I feel that a lot of the frustration and restarts (at least in my experience) comes down equally to an unbalanced tenacity load on the characters. So many other teams could be viable in multiple phases if the chance of landing a debuff wasn’t minuscule to impossible.
I blame it on the raid coming out in god mode, not many guilds are finding the grind fun.
Replies
I can't wait to try the sith raid with those modification.
And FINALLY !! You removed those annoying rewards no one wants and thats been plaguing me for a year! If there is a reward you can be sure thats what I'll get... so good riddance bad rewards.
Edited for language. - EA_Cian
So much this. It's bull that I throw a g8 jtr (with g10/11 scav rey, bb8, finn) at phase 1 tier3 and notice that I'm putting a much more massive dent than what my g12 cls rebels pull off purely because every tier is designed with heroic tier teams in mind.
I'm not expecting g12 cls rebels to perform as good as a heroic jtr team, but I do expect them to put a sizeable dent in a boss scaled for toons 4+ gear levels lower. What is the point in that investment gearing those toons up if they're ineffective? What's the point of a guild even trying if they literally cannot have unlocked any of the mandatory heroic teams yet 100% need those teams for a reasonable completion time?
Honestly I think the reason the devs saw non heroic guilds taking up to a week to clear the raid is because they are doing the raid 1-3 tiers lower than they should be for their gp level. If we weren't all going for the lower tier they'd probably see guilds averaging 1 completion every 2 weeks.
Honestly to close the massive power gap that has exponentially grown as a result the non-heroic loot boxes will have to always drop fully crafted hpit/haat raid gear. Short of that I don't think the power gap will ever be shrunk (unless they decide that hsith rewards need to be nerfed even further)
https://media1.tenor.com/images/563678b82be8fb7036b0d659edd877a8/tenor.gif?itemid=5009440
I would suggest not reducing Sion's health actually though or a much smaller decrease than for the others, he is the one enjoyable part of the raid, the others yes so needed indeed.
The one thing I hope you will also consider is to put some extra credits in the reward tiers because they are too low in comparison to Rancor and Tank (guild currency is pretty fair).
Also to that end, there needs to be more incentive to fight from one reward tier to the next one. As it is now, moving from #13 to #9 for example you only see a tiny TINY increase in Guild currency & Credits, like 1%! This is ridiculous, and does not match Tank or Rancor Raids at all someone dropped the ball here, the increase in those raids in those currencies from tier to tier is more like 3-5% which IS actually an incentive, 1% no one wants to bother!!! (Its not even motivating going from #22 to #9 the way it is now, which means people won't bother and added time to raid then because they skip it or just auto it)
Thank you again @CG_SBCrumb and CG for listening this will greatly improve the experience
I agree with this. Each phase takes my guild about a day or even two. Except Sion. He gets obliterated in about 2 hours.
The rest of the changes sound great, but hopefully you do pay attention to what challenge gear everyone has stacked up, and what few pieces are actually useful.
Not really, ever since the reward revamp it did the exact opposite, reducing the participation in the heroic sith raid dramatically. Unless you know you are competing in the top 10 there is no point in wasting your time on it, unless your in a guild that just started clearing it and still needs the entire guilds contribution to clear it. As of the revamp we have 10-20 people posting 0's, 10-20 doing an auto battle or hitting one phase, and the top 20 players that have a shot to be in the 10 rankings nuking the raid.
Ha. I know right.
I mean I like what they're saying and for those asking when and why so long I'm less concerned with that. I figure they'll only tinker with it one more time so I hope they get it right. Two major things I see here that could make this fix less than desired.
1) Most guilds right now that are not doing Heroic are likely doing a tier much lower than they are probably built for due to the time to complete and garbage rewards. I.e. a guild that could do tier 5 per the requirements listed is probably doing tier 3. I know that's how it is in my guild. We cold probably do tier 5 per what is listed, but it would take 2 weeks. As of right now we are doing tier 3 in a little under a week. So if they adjust HP/protection/mechanics/etc based on current data it may not meet the mark in helping non-heroics progress
2) Saying they will remove challenge gear scares me without seeing the list of gear that may stay. I man no one would be too upset with some fully formed Cabs am I right? Heroic is for farming G11 and G12 gear in my mind. Any guild doing heroic probably is doing Haat and Hpit to get lower gear level gear as well. Non-heroic STR should get you g8-g10 gear with maybe some salvage g11 towards higher tiers and of course the chance for completed pieces of any g8-g11 the higher you rank and the higher the tier. What should those pieces be? It's easy. Run a query in your DB and see which pieces 80% of the player population has 1,000 or more of salvage pieces and don't include those. They are obviously easier to farm elsewhere.
That is all.
Not sure about that, the data would be interesting to see. I do know that my teams, run on auto average about the same, but then again, I just complete my chore and move on with my day.
I don’t think that is true, we have not seen that at all in our crew.
X100000000000
But really. When they first recognized that there was a problem with JTR being nearly the only thing that worked in p1/p4, instead of nerfing expose—which also nerfed other teams in other raids and did absolutely nothing for any other team in STR—they should have just lowered the darn STR health pool. This would have made other teams' contributions more significant as a percentage while slightly toning down the huge advantage of JTR. Problem solved.
Instead, they chose the ham-fisted solution instead of the one that everyone except the devs was saying was the right one and that they'd need to make anyway down the road.
I want to feel good about these changes that are finally coming (if they're done right and sufficiently), but CG has lost the benefit of the doubt from me because of how long it's taken them to come to this conclusion when they had the collective angst of nearly the entire community telling them exactly what was wrong with it FOR SIX MONTHS.
The biggest irony to the jtr nerf was that when she returned they were all "we want to see how more jtr in the wild impact completion time" straight up acknowledging that even post nerf she was the only viable leader for some phases if you wanted to do any meaningful damage.
Either jtr originally outshines other equally viable teams that result in a reasonable completion time or she is the linchpin to reasonable completion times but they wanted it both ways.
The Tickets dividing scaling factor would be set (or re-set) at raid launch times and would scale the rewards by the same number (1, 2, 3, or 4) for that raid. Details can be figured out to prevent abuse or loopholes, but it would be a great Quality of Life change imo.
I blame it on the raid coming out in god mode, not many guilds are finding the grind fun.
Why? With 6E mods, a mechanic tweak, and lowering the health pool, reverting the Expose nerf just seems like overkill.
I think everyone is fed up enough with this raid that we would all be in favor of tier 1-5 being quick farms only a few hours longer than haat