Update on Grand Arena and Territory Wars [MEGA]

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    Spang wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    crumb why u avoiding the more GA less rewards questions?

    First guess would be because you are using the wrong tag.

    Yes, it is likely that the rewards will be lesser to be balanced with current amount of rewards over more instances.

    This may not mean less overall, but it may mean less per event.

    So we get the same with more efforts. It sounds like a great business. Coz everybody's big dream is to work 10 hours more per week for the same salary in their actual job.

    Not that like +50 carbantis or something per month would have made our progress anything faster. Ok, that's an exaggeration, so the truth is, that would have made our progress a little tiny bit faster. That wouldn't ruin anything from the perspective of the devs. One (or half) piece of gear in 30 days. Wow, that's outrageous....

    While I agree that a slight bump to the rate of progress wouldn't be such a bad thing, this is a game - not a job. If you don't enjoy playing it then why are you? Any excuse to play GA more is good for me.

    I never said that it feels like a job. Please read my comment again.

    But let's turn the question: Why is it good for CG to not give the same reward as it is now for that 1 more GA? How would it hurt them?

    By the way gears are much bigger bottleneck than mod salvages, and they want to take those away (or at least reduce them even more) according to the post. I just can't consider this as a sign of goodwill, more the opposite.

    Not that the rewards were great, but weren't bad as well. Now we "work" (figurative language) more for more or less the same amount, but less usable rewards. Though we can play more, that's true. This is the classic example of giving with one hand and taking away with the other.
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    Can we have zetas and omegas as permanent rewards just like how we have for TW? It takes a week to get through GA. It’s a lot of work to do, so the rewards should reflect that. Also the zeta demand in the game is crazy with almost every character needing at least 1 zeta. That’s over 150 zeta abilities needed and we only have 3 ways to farm them currently. 1 of the ways is completely a gamble as you can go weeks to months without getting a single zeta from that method. So only 2 for sure ways to farm zetas.
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    Personally, I'm not a fan of GA. Yeah, I know, weird right? I just play it for the rewards. Now I will have to play it more often for the same rewards...maybe slightly more? Ugh! No Thanks.
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    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    updated rewards to compensate for the increased number of events

    Not happy about this, for a slightly different reason than others have stated.

    Grand Arena is vastly more fun than normal Arena. Normal Arena is boring, it's the exact same slog for months at a time. It doesn't work for people who have families, or people who work later, or people who just want to eat and be sociable when it's a good time of day for people to eat and be sociable. Basically, normal Arena is a toxic thing, a detriment to people's lives. I put up with it because other parts of the game are actually fun, but I hate how it makes me feel.

    Grand Arena has none of those problems; it's a good challenge, it's flexible for people's schedules, and there's a lot more potential for it to change from one to the next and stay fresh.

    CG_Carrie mentioned a long time ago that she understood the inherent hostility of the Arena's payouts and reward structures to people's real lives and was eager to find an alternative. I was so happy to hear that. My hope these last few months has been that GA could be the solution she was looking for: with the right incentives, we'd have no less pressure to chase the meta and stay on top, but without disrupting people's daily lives. Since launch, GA rewards have not been commensurate with the effort required relative to the other arenas, but that made sense -- it takes a while for a new thing to settle in. But three months later, the rewards are shrinking rather than expanding. Such a great opportunity to deprecate the original Arena and finally change the core of this game for the better, and we're squandering it, which is as clear a signal as we could possibly get that whatever Carrie was hoping for will never happen, and that's the real point here.

    I'm not complaining about the loss of a few stun guns over a week, because with the extra GA I'll make them back the next week, even though it feels bad to work just as hard as before for less payout per unit of effort. GA is still fun.

    I'm complaining because we all put up with a lot of nonsense to get to the fun parts of this game, and some of that nonsense is required to develop a game in this decade I guess (like inciting people to gamble and impulse spend), but some of it isn't. And it just feels bad to know that whoever's running the show doesn't care enough to fix the seriously toxic things that aren't even required by their business model. I guess we're all still here because either we think the fun outweighs the nonsense, or we're unwilling to admit our sunk cost fallacy. I think I'm the former.
  • Hex
    21 posts Member
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    For some of us that went all out to help guilds with TB, GA is a joke. I have a little over 4M GP and get decimated from one GA to the next.

    When I started padding GP, the *only* thing it was used for was TB. Now its too late and I will most probably never win another GA fight no matter how hard I try. That is *not* a fun mode...

    As a result I just don't care anymore. I just want the rewards for last place with absolutely no effort. Sim, auto-deploy makes no difference. GA is *not* fun when you spent time allocating defence, knowing you will get steamrolled.

    Let some of us choose a 'decline' button and award the last place rewards. You'll be surprised how many people will choose 'last place' rewards if it means skipping out on this atrocious content.

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    So if I understand correctly we will now have to work double hard to get the same amount of rewards?

    The only reason why one would want more GAs is to get more rewards, not the same rewards for extra effort.
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
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    Gama_Fox wrote: »
    @crumb why u avoiding the more GA less rewards questions?

    Cause it makes the team look bad!

    I think I've hardly if ever seen them ever actually address and quote constructive feedback comments, it is usually always comments that praise them as if the dirt they walk on is hallowed, those are the ones who get the "we are listening to you" :D

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    You obviously aren't listening too closely if you are adding more Grand Arena Events every month. The one saving grace of this Mode is that at least half of my opponents set defenses and leave it at that. Never attacking. It makes for a much more enjoyable experience. can't wait for auto deploy to be done with it.
  • plindboe
    281 posts Member
    edited February 2019
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    Hex wrote: »
    For some of us that went all out to help guilds with TB, GA is a joke. I have a little over 4M GP and get decimated from one GA to the next.

    When I started padding GP, the *only* thing it was used for was TB. Now its too late and I will most probably never win another GA fight no matter how hard I try. That is *not* a fun mode...

    As a result I just don't care anymore. I just want the rewards for last place with absolutely no effort. Sim, auto-deploy makes no difference. GA is *not* fun when you spent time allocating defence, knowing you will get steamrolled.

    I inflated my GP too, to help my guild in TB, and everyone I have encountered in GA so far has had more g12 characters than I do. Despite of this, in every GA I either get 1st place or I end up on the 2nd-4th place. While the match-making could definitely be improved, it doesn't decide everything. Developing good teams, having a good defense, while saving the right teams for offense, and knowing how to counter various teams, these are all big factors as well.


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    I really dislike the news. More ga for worse rewards? So spend more time on a horrible mode, for absolutely no benefit? Thiy is anti QOL.
    Who comes up with things like that?
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    Not sure about reward adjustments... now the reward is pathetic for the time GA takes. So we will have to work 3 times harder for the same/worse rewards? Are you serious?
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    Sunnie1978 wrote: »
    DEV POST

    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi Holotable Heroes,

    We announced that with the introduction of the Grand Arena our intention was to continue to move Territory Wars in a “more playful and fun direction”. We’ve heard your feedback over the last couple months - what works, what doesn’t, what you’d like to see more of, what you’d like to never see again - and we wanted to share some of the changes we’re making.

    We will continue to experiment on Territory Wars with new abilities and ensure this is an exciting mode to explore new and uncommon teams. We will be bringing back some of the past favorites and introduce new ones as we look to keep the experience fresh.

    We have made several changes to our upcoming plans to address the feedback we received:
    • No More Complete Character Bans - Our original intention was shake up which squads you’d face - rather than just facing the same top powerhouse squads all the time - but we hear you that the first implementation was too restrictive to be fun for many players and entirely removes some of Star Wars’ most iconic characters from regular play. We aren’t planning on bringing picks or bans back to Territory Wars in the same way - where a character is completely blocked from the entire event. However, we will continue to explore ways to encourage more “alternative” squad formations on the map. We will also more heavily lean into focusing on bonuses and passives to really elevate some of the less used characters or just provide new utility to well known characters.
    • Frequency of Events - We can now support running multiple events at the same time, so we are adding more Grand Arena events each month starting in March. See more details below.
    • Grand Arena Auto-Deploy - It’s really annoying to get into Grand Arena and not have an opponent place any defenses. Not only does it deny you a small amount of credits or quest progress, but you just can’t participate in the fun! We have working on this feature since the launch of Grand Arena but ran into several difficult bugs. The good news is we are close to hammering out the major issues with Auto-Deploy, and we hope to add this to one of the next couple updates.

    Grand Arena will continue to be the best place to test your roster, and we will be growing the number of events per month. We had originally tuned the Grand Arena to only run once or twice a month, but we have heard your feedback that you want Grand Arena to occur more frequently than that. To accommodate for these additional events the March 3rd Grand Arena will stay with current rewards but March 17th and 24th will have updated rewards to compensate for the increased number of events.

    We are also considering rebalancing what kinds of rewards you would get as mods and mod salvage are incredibly important for bringing your team’s power up to the next level of competition.The logic being that the rewards you earn from a competitive mode should help you do better the next time you dive into that mode.

    We’d love to hear your thoughts on these changes and how we can make these modes even more fun.




    DEV POST

    Just fix the dam matching for ga ffs auto deploy doesn't fix the laziness of just using GP as the matching system auto deploy or not I will still find a way round it till you fix the matching system.
  • Options
    Ph1l wrote: »
    Sunnie1978 wrote: »
    DEV POST

    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi Holotable Heroes,

    We announced that with the introduction of the Grand Arena our intention was to continue to move Territory Wars in a “more playful and fun direction”. We’ve heard your feedback over the last couple months - what works, what doesn’t, what you’d like to see more of, what you’d like to never see again - and we wanted to share some of the changes we’re making.

    We will continue to experiment on Territory Wars with new abilities and ensure this is an exciting mode to explore new and uncommon teams. We will be bringing back some of the past favorites and introduce new ones as we look to keep the experience fresh.

    We have made several changes to our upcoming plans to address the feedback we received:
    • No More Complete Character Bans - Our original intention was shake up which squads you’d face - rather than just facing the same top powerhouse squads all the time - but we hear you that the first implementation was too restrictive to be fun for many players and entirely removes some of Star Wars’ most iconic characters from regular play. We aren’t planning on bringing picks or bans back to Territory Wars in the same way - where a character is completely blocked from the entire event. However, we will continue to explore ways to encourage more “alternative” squad formations on the map. We will also more heavily lean into focusing on bonuses and passives to really elevate some of the less used characters or just provide new utility to well known characters.
    • Frequency of Events - We can now support running multiple events at the same time, so we are adding more Grand Arena events each month starting in March. See more details below.
    • Grand Arena Auto-Deploy - It’s really annoying to get into Grand Arena and not have an opponent place any defenses. Not only does it deny you a small amount of credits or quest progress, but you just can’t participate in the fun! We have working on this feature since the launch of Grand Arena but ran into several difficult bugs. The good news is we are close to hammering out the major issues with Auto-Deploy, and we hope to add this to one of the next couple updates.

    Grand Arena will continue to be the best place to test your roster, and we will be growing the number of events per month. We had originally tuned the Grand Arena to only run once or twice a month, but we have heard your feedback that you want Grand Arena to occur more frequently than that. To accommodate for these additional events the March 3rd Grand Arena will stay with current rewards but March 17th and 24th will have updated rewards to compensate for the increased number of events.

    We are also considering rebalancing what kinds of rewards you would get as mods and mod salvage are incredibly important for bringing your team’s power up to the next level of competition.The logic being that the rewards you earn from a competitive mode should help you do better the next time you dive into that mode.

    We’d love to hear your thoughts on these changes and how we can make these modes even more fun.




    DEV POST

    Just fix the dam matching for ga ffs auto deploy doesn't fix the laziness of just using GP as the matching system auto deploy or not I will still find a way round it till you fix the matching system.

    Place squads of only lv1 characters
  • Options
    Gorem wrote: »
    Gama_Fox wrote: »
    @crumb why u avoiding the more GA less rewards questions?

    Cause it makes the team look bad!

    I think I've hardly if ever seen them ever actually address and quote constructive feedback comments, it is usually always comments that praise them as if the dirt they walk on is hallowed, those are the ones who get the "we are listening to you" :D

    I'm super excited to see them say that they're going through with the Finn nerf after "all" of the positive feedback. Which we all know consists of 3-4 messages on that thread lol.
  • Options
    Most of this is good news. Listening to (the constructive part of) the community is excellent (and a bit new if I may say so).

    GA is my favourite game mode, it is all Squad arena isn't (I really should sit down and write a "everything wrong with Squad Arena" post, but there is just SO much wrong... B) ), but the rewards are a bit lackluster in the first place, if the rewards from 2 event is to be spread out on 4 events.... :(

    I would recommend better rewards, maybe with a reward crate that can give some really nice stuff (gear, zeta, omega, currency). This will make GA more important for players like me => we will invest more in the toons needed => profit for GC.

    A few ideas for special rules for TW (mostly) and GA:
    • No leader abilities. This will really shake things up and let us mix and match toons among the fractions
    • Teams with 2 leader abilities (like when you borrow allies in LS/DS battles)
    • All leader abilities are activated. This is likely broken like nothing else, but at least it is fun to think about a team with all the leaderships from Traya, DN, Maul, Vader and Palpatine :p , Or Rex, Cody, GK or Cls, Jyn, Wedge, Leia and AA
    • 6 toon squads. Feel the might of the complete Phoenix squad, 6 ewoks, all the Tuskens etc.
    • Single toon "squads" (GA).
    • Toons may not share a fraction with more than 1 other toon (that should mix it up!)
    • Jawa's share their unique abilities
    • Toons cannot regain protection
    • All toons start with buff immunity for 2 turns (cannot be dispelled)
    • All tanks gain +200 speed (makes them both better and worse)
    • Droids start with 1 bonus turn, GG with 2... o:)
    • No TM gain
    • No TM removal
    • No protection & no crits
    • Only lightside / darkside on defence
    • The same toon can be used on both offence and defence
  • Options
    a reward crate that can give some really nice stuff (gear, zeta, omega, currency).

    God no, a thousand times no.
    Where are the Stun Guns?
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
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    ArthurDent wrote: »
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    updated rewards to compensate for the increased number of events

    Not happy about this, for a slightly different reason than others have stated.

    Grand Arena is vastly more fun than normal Arena. Normal Arena is boring, it's the exact same slog for months at a time. It doesn't work for people who have families, or people who work later, or people who just want to eat and be sociable when it's a good time of day for people to eat and be sociable. Basically, normal Arena is a toxic thing, a detriment to people's lives. I put up with it because other parts of the game are actually fun, but I hate how it makes me feel.

    Grand Arena has none of those problems; it's a good challenge, it's flexible for people's schedules, and there's a lot more potential for it to change from one to the next and stay fresh.

    CG_Carrie mentioned a long time ago that she understood the inherent hostility of the Arena's payouts and reward structures to people's real lives and was eager to find an alternative. I was so happy to hear that. My hope these last few months has been that GA could be the solution she was looking for: with the right incentives, we'd have no less pressure to chase the meta and stay on top, but without disrupting people's daily lives. Since launch, GA rewards have not been commensurate with the effort required relative to the other arenas, but that made sense -- it takes a while for a new thing to settle in. But three months later, the rewards are shrinking rather than expanding. Such a great opportunity to deprecate the original Arena and finally change the core of this game for the better, and we're squandering it, which is as clear a signal as we could possibly get that whatever Carrie was hoping for will never happen, and that's the real point here.

    I'm not complaining about the loss of a few stun guns over a week, because with the extra GA I'll make them back the next week, even though it feels bad to work just as hard as before for less payout per unit of effort. GA is still fun.

    I'm complaining because we all put up with a lot of nonsense to get to the fun parts of this game, and some of that nonsense is required to develop a game in this decade I guess (like inciting people to gamble and impulse spend), but some of it isn't. And it just feels bad to know that whoever's running the show doesn't care enough to fix the seriously toxic things that aren't even required by their business model. I guess we're all still here because either we think the fun outweighs the nonsense, or we're unwilling to admit our sunk cost fallacy. I think I'm the former.

    The change to arena was to address the issue you mentioned of having to play at a time that’s bad for you by allowing you to change your payout time to whenever you like.
    ottomaddux wrote: »
    You obviously aren't listening too closely if you are adding more Grand Arena Events every month. The one saving grace of this Mode is that at least half of my opponents set defenses and leave it at that. Never attacking. It makes for a much more enjoyable experience. can't wait for auto deploy to be done with it.

    A lot of people requested more frequent GA events. Not everybody will agree about any particular issue. Listening to the community doesn’t mean listening to *you* specifically.
  • Options
    I disagree with having more GA. It's far too tedious for the amount of effort needed (e.g. current 3v3 demands sourcing 22+ viable leaders), and far too monotonous (always the same teams each time). Running multiple events at the same time is a bad thing, it is burning people out, and overwhelming to the point players can no longer fully participate in everything, or even keep track of them. I'm sure you (CG) have the data on the percentage of players who failed to join TW and/or GA, maybe even see percentage of players who missed raids during TW/GA vs non-event days, and then on top of that players who fail to set teams on defence or have 0 attacks. I'm not asking for you to share these numbers, but to see for yourselves if there is any statistical significance in that, and not just rely on the opinions on the vocal portion of the players.

    I also disagree with having no more banned characters. Monotony is a bad thing (even more so now with a higher frequency of events), and the TW/GA meta is extremely resistant to strategy change, which means that we are currently facing the same teams since the first days of TW, and we'll face the same teams a year from now. A bonus here and there won't change much if 3/4 of the board remains the same. Ban the entire LS or DS. Ban all leaders. Double the amount of fleets needed on defence. Change as many things as you can think of, just make every TW/GA feel completely different. Or just have less of it so that we don't have to face the same teams every other day (and double on weekends).
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    All I read was „rebalancing of rewards“. More game time for the same return... Thanks - I guess...
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    Thank you for saying you will never do bans again! It was the worst, so again thank you.
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    While I enjoy the gameplay of Grand Arena and am happy to hear that it will be more frequent, the idea of the rewards being less than what they are for the week of battles sounds disappointing. Being able to use more teams in a setting like Grand Arena is fantastic and allows me to play some non-meta teams, which I am thrilled with, but they are also resource intensive and to reduce rewards means that I am less likely to work on non-meta team progress.
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    I actually agree with a rewards change up. The idea of helping someone do better the next time they enter GA will, I believe, make for more fun overall. For instance, as it is now, the first place winner gets 3 zetas, and the person in eighth gets zero. RNG could've allowed for an easier (or equally harder) path to that outcome, so I think it's a fair change up if they decide to water down the rewards.
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    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Droideka wrote: »
    Can you please stop counting ship GP in GA when there are no ship territories? It is creating huge imbalances in some cases.

    Yes! It's something we are still working on. I'll remind the team that it's still a big community concern

    It would have been really nice if you would have told us ahead of this current GA that you couldn't remove Ship GP. You stated it would not be included.
  • Devian
    676 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Options
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    However, we will continue to explore ways to encourage more “alternative” squad formations on the map.
    How about temporary leadership abilities for different characters?
    The same way like with Mace Windu boost, but only if that character is in leader spot. And of course he gives bonuses to every member of that squad, not just himself. Doesn't really need to have 'leader' unique.
    This could be fun.
    Just imagine leader c3po giving bonuses to ewoks and leader veteran Han solo boosting resistance or smugglers
  • Options
    Most of this is good news. Listening to (the constructive part of) the community is excellent (and a bit new if I may say so).

    GA is my favourite game mode, it is all Squad arena isn't (I really should sit down and write a "everything wrong with Squad Arena" post, but there is just SO much wrong... B) ), but the rewards are a bit lackluster in the first place, if the rewards from 2 event is to be spread out on 4 events.... :(

    I would recommend better rewards, maybe with a reward crate that can give some really nice stuff (gear, zeta, omega, currency). This will make GA more important for players like me => we will invest more in the toons needed => profit for GC.

    A few ideas for special rules for TW (mostly) and GA:
    • No leader abilities. This will really shake things up and let us mix and match toons among the fractions
    • Teams with 2 leader abilities (like when you borrow allies in LS/DS battles)
    • All leader abilities are activated. This is likely broken like nothing else, but at least it is fun to think about a team with all the leaderships from Traya, DN, Maul, Vader and Palpatine :p , Or Rex, Cody, GK or Cls, Jyn, Wedge, Leia and AA
    • 6 toon squads. Feel the might of the complete Phoenix squad, 6 ewoks, all the Tuskens etc.
    • Single toon "squads" (GA).
    • Toons may not share a fraction with more than 1 other toon (that should mix it up!)
    • Jawa's share their unique abilities
    • Toons cannot regain protection
    • All toons start with buff immunity for 2 turns (cannot be dispelled)
    • All tanks gain +200 speed (makes them both better and worse)
    • Droids start with 1 bonus turn, GG with 2... o:)
    • No TM gain
    • No TM removal
    • No protection & no crits
    • Only lightside / darkside on defence
    • The same toon can be used on both offence and defence

    How about:
    “Crew members can only be used once”, meaning either a crew member is on ground or in his ship.
    So for example setting Chimaera on defense would mean that Thrawn isn’t available as a ground troop, or using Zolo on offense means that the falcon is not available.
  • Options
    How about you develop features that encourage us to play together and to build our rosters without fear of GP bloat? Rather than pushing GA harder, making it feel down right mandatory with its rewards and pushing it on us more often so we don't get a break from it.

    I'm sure it may be the best thing ever at middle of the road GP levels, but at the high end it's the same toxicity and same game as arena. The only difference is, instead of a competition for who gets to hit last it's who squeaks by with a hand full more points. I mean, is it really that fun when you are clearing both boards and the only deciding factor is who took slightly more damage in one round?

    Why don't we fully address the the fact that at higher tiers it's a grueling game of hyper mod management and a playing field where outdated characters server only to boost you into brackets with leaner rosters that are newer and fresher? Or maybe change it so even those who sign up get decent rewards so they feel encouraged to set something out and participate?

    Is it really going to unbalance the game to give everyone who participates in 3v3 a zeta?

    So please fix something that needs fixing, make a new cooperative mode, don't make our lives more tedious.
  • Options
    ...updated rewards to compensate for the increased number of events.

    So let me get this straight. You heard the player base saying "please make us work more for the same total rewards!!"??

    Apparently the lesson to be learned here is "Watch what you wish for."

    I have to give CG credit for one thing - they listen to the players requests, then brilliantly manipulate, twist and distort them, throwing them back in our faces saying "You asked for it!!"

    - Revan? Check - now the least diverse meta in the game's history
    - Rework HSith Rewards? Check - now only the top 10 can see full drops of g12
    - Rework GG? Check - and he still is only decent if you surround him with a maxed team with 2 marquees.



    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Tigerdad13
    5 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Options
    Still need lots of work on match making. Pathetic. Why would I want to play if outcome is futile. Total FAIL. I litterally just set defense and give win to opponent because thats whats going to happen anyway. Not cool. Only cool if your the one the scale is tipped toward.
  • Options
    I'll say the same thing I said in another GA topic.

    If CG is going to cut in a half the rewards they can keep as is.
    I don't want to spend twice the time for the same rewards, It doesn't make any sense to me.
    Keep as is then if you are not going to reward my time spent.

    TWICE THE TIME? TWICE THE REWARDS OR KEEP AS IS.

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