I don't know how well Fisto performs on offense, but he is completely useless on defense. I've faced a 7* CUP in arena that was more of a threat than him.
Any hero can be half decent on offense, but how he performs on defense is just as important to make him a viable hero.
My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
I think Kit is middle of the pack or slightly higher tier - I can see for someone that's a huge Kit fan that he would be underwhelming because nothing sticks out, but he's also a pretty decent overall character with various skill sets. I don't think he has a major weakness. He's actually a great option vs. the current speed meta in a tanky AOE team - he hits decently hard on his AOE - harder than Phasma - and the guy can seriously tank at nearly 17k max health at this cap. Throw in the counter chance as well which helps chip away at the speedy dps toons.
Sorry Johnny gotta disgaree with you big time here. I have him maxed and his Aoe does not move health bars at all, with his wet noodle attack his double attack that has a low chance to happen compared to banes 55% is actually needed just to deal basic damage. His counter is of low chance but could be useful if his attack wasn't so bad.
His health and ok speed are his benfits, i urge you to 7* him and max him out and i promise you he will be slaughtered.
Ps. Bane is next on my list poor bloke needs the spotlight on him as well. Also you don't run Plo in a jedi team as he wouldn't be worth the spot.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
I can understand the importance of AOE teams and it sounds unreal. But Kit's AOE does almost 0 damage lol no joke.
It's hard to show unless you are prepared to max him out and step into arena with him. even on cantina there is no number for his AOE.
I promise you although this character is more personal for me. I wouldn't be bringing it up without good reason.
I urge you to try him at 7* maxed against arena teams. I know it looks like im a fan boy of Kit and i am to a point but he is not correct.
Edit : just to add:
taking in the buff is useless to most outside of sid or ben and only for 1 move.... the ability only has a chance is worse...
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine. [/quote]
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
I think Kit is middle of the pack or slightly higher tier - I can see for someone that's a huge Kit fan that he would be underwhelming because nothing sticks out, but he's also a pretty decent overall character with various skill sets. I don't think he has a major weakness. He's actually a great option vs. the current speed meta in a tanky AOE team - he hits decently hard on his AOE - harder than Phasma - and the guy can seriously tank at nearly 17k max health at this cap. Throw in the counter chance as well which helps chip away at the speedy dps toons.
Sorry Johnny gotta disgaree with you big time here. I have him maxed and his Aoe does not move health bars at all, with his wet noodle attack his double attack that has a low chance to happen compared to banes 55% is actually needed just to deal basic damage. His counter is of low chance but could be useful if his attack wasn't so bad.
His health and ok speed are his benfits, i urge you to 7* him and max him out and i promise you he will be slaughtered.
Ps. Bane is next on my list poor bloke needs the spotlight on him as well. Also you don't run Plo in a jedi team as he wouldn't be worth the spot.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
Have you ever used Plo Koon yourself? He does nowhere near that damage in my experience. 1K per toon on a good day.
Stop looking at Kit Fisto as "Jedi have enough yada"...look at him as an individual hero and how he is in any team.
Not everyone runs full jedi teams just because in fact very few do and arena shows it well.
There's a guy that challenges for #1 everyday on my server and that server is full of strong "meta" type speed teams - RG, Jinn etc. - he has a JKA, Jinn leader, Lumi, Old Ben, and Yoda. He can beat any of the teams that we put up in the D slot. I think if you had teams that could only be comprised of their groups - any other group would be hard pressed to defeat that Jedi combination - including Sith. That aside, let's get back to Fisto and what I see in his value.
Let me add some perspective on why I actually value Kit decently and I'll add some comparisons below for detail. For months the meta has been around speedy, high damage heroes. Even going back to when Poe was meta, I utilized tanky aoes to counter these squads. Now, these squads are still around, but it's RG in the place of Poe. RG can be tricky to get around, even with your own RG, if RNG goes bad. I still find it safer in some sets to just go with the AOE counter to get a needed win at lock time. So a tanky AOE toon - I value those guys at a much higher rate than most would because of how I use them in a theme vs. the meta of the past 3+ months. For example, no one talks about Snowtrooper right? He's slow...he's got an AOE that isn't crazy...but I have him maxed because he hits 7th hardest AOE in the game and has nearly 15k health - so he's very sturdy. He was at the time, the last piece to my AOE counter as I needed a 4th decent aoe to go against Poe teams. Kit is another hero that can fit this purpose very well. He has the added bonus of the chance to do counter damage - any additional damage is big in this tanky / fast aoe vs. glass cannon battle.
Now, given that taunter + high DPS has been meta close to almost the entirety of the game (Before Poe, the Han trap was pretty insane to face and now it's RG that is an obstacle), the AOE theme seems to be a good long-term approach to continue to broaden. Kit really is a perfect fit for that particular tactic. So for me - I see unique value in Kit as a combo that isn't easy to find - only about 1/3 of the roster even has AOE as a skill and then only a handful of that 1/3 either has the speed to hit before the high damage heroes OR has the required amount of health to absorb the damage without being killed. So that eliminates the following due to lack of health and speed:
Darth Maul
Ventress
Jawa
88
Lando
Veers
Datcha
CUPolice
Tarkin
Clone Sgt
Ugnaught
GG (he's borderline and could be in "tanking" with his ally taunt skill)
On the fast viable side you have:
Yoda
Sid
JKA
Tanky side you have:
Snowtrooper
Kylo
JKA
Magma (not really available now)
Kit
IG 100
Vader
Boba (counting some revives here for additional damage taking ability, but he's borderline at 12k)
Plo
HK
Phasma
JKG
Couple things to point out -
1. JKA is the only one on both lists - he's an extremely versatile and unique character
2. On the tanky side, Kit does higher AOE damage than JKG, Phasma, HK, Plo, Boba, Vader, and IG 100 (by a hair) - now, given that Magma isn't really available, Kit Fisto has the 4th highest AOE for a tanky character in the entire game, only behind Snowtrooper, Kylo, and JKA. Now we know speed is huge...and of those 3, only JKA is faster than Kit - he beats out Kylo by a bit and kills Snowtrooper in speed.
The TL;DR here would be: Kit Fisto as currently constructed has a unique combination of solid AOE+tanking+decent speed that most characters in the game do not possess.
I don't know how well Fisto performs on offense, but he is completely useless on defense. I've faced a 7* CUP in arena that was more of a threat than him.
Any hero can be half decent on offense, but how he performs on defense is just as important to make him a viable hero.
That's a small number of hereos there that perform on defense though.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
[/quote]
I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.[/quote]
On page 3 @Nonemo wrote up a brillant idea on Kit Fisto that plays on high risk/high reward. Have a look @JohnnySteelAlpha. I feel it would give him some unique ideas and still remain balanced.
I don't think the aoe comparison is quite as simple as base damage. You need to also consider the debuff effects add well:
Phasma's aoe casts speed down and will do extra damage with advantage. This also enhances the turn meter advantage effect of victory march which benefits the whole team.
You have already mentioned the dots for Vader and Sid, but you also need to take into account that the dots help set Vader up for culling blade and Sid has good health steal on his aoe.
HK, Boba and JKG all cast useful debuffs with their aoe.
As it currently stands I would take any one of these characters over Kit just on aoe alone not to mention all the other utilities, characteristics and abilities they bring.
Even after all this, the problems with Kit's character balance and representation go beyond just the aoe and I think if some of the suggested changes were made it would be a step in the right direction.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.
On page 3 @Nonemo wrote up a brillant idea on Kit Fisto that plays on high risk/high reward. Have a look @JohnnySteelAlpha. I feel it would give him some unique ideas and still remain balanced. [/quote]
Actually --- that looks pretty good I really like the AOE special calling allies to help attack. That would for sure make him more interesting of a character. I agree that right now, Kit isn't exciting or even super deadly on his own. He's a guy that's there and can be decent in a team, but he's not carrying a team to victory his own. If he got a buff it wouldn't be ridiculous as he's far from OP and non-meta characters getting more utility is good - but I voted no because I didn't think he "needed" a buff necessarily relative to some other characters at the moment. The support in your poll is strongly in favor of buffing him though, so it looks like you made a good post and have the support of most.
You could run Plo in Jedi team if you're running an AOE team. Just add up the numbers on aoe and that's how it's most effective when looked at as its own theme. If you're just trying to kill people with Kit's AOEs, sure it's not going to do much, but most AOEs are like that. However, if you're using 5x AOE toons vs. the speed high damage meta Kit will do very well. Say you took an all Jedi all AOE team - JKA, Kit, JKG, Plo, and Yoda - they would cumulatively do over 9k in non-crit, non-offense up AOE damage. Use JKA as a leader with higher offense for Jedi and that number will move up. Sprinkle in some crits and you're doing plenty adequate damage to kill Rey, enemy Jinn, etc. All those heroes have good health too so hey will survive the first round attacks well. Yoda has lower health, but he's so fast he will get his hit off just fine.
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.
On page 3 @Nonemo wrote up a brillant idea on Kit Fisto that plays on high risk/high reward. Have a look @JohnnySteelAlpha. I feel it would give him some unique ideas and still remain balanced.
Actually --- that looks pretty good I really like the AOE special calling allies to help attack. That would for sure make him more interesting of a character. I agree that right now, Kit isn't exciting or even super deadly on his own. He's a guy that's there and can be decent in a team, but he's not carrying a team to victory his own. If he got a buff it wouldn't be ridiculous as he's far from OP and non-meta characters getting more utility is good - but I voted no because I didn't think he "needed" a buff necessarily relative to some other characters at the moment. The support in your poll is strongly in favor of buffing him though, so it looks like you made a good post and have the support of most.
Indeed alot of characters do and my list is that of #23 that need things from animation changes to complete overhauls.
This is only #2 out of #23 not including the tank thread that covered alot of bases.
I don't think the aoe comparison is quite as simple as base damage. You need to also consider the debuff effects add well:
Phasma's aoe casts speed down and will do extra damage with advantage. This also enhances the turn meter advantage effect of victory march which benefits the whole team.
You have already mentioned the dots for Vader and Sid, but you also need to take into account that the dots help set Vader up for culling blade and Sid has good health steal on his aoe.
HK, Boba and JKG all cast useful debuffs with their aoe.
As it currently stands I would take any one of these characters over Kit just on aoe alone not to mention all the other utilities, characteristics and abilities they bring.
Even after all this, the problems with Kit's character balance and representation go beyond just the aoe and I think if some of the suggested changes were made it would be a step in the right direction.
Very well thought out post @Mofojokers1992, but I ask this. What character is represented correctly? There are Sith characters who arnt Siths, slow characters who should be fast (VS, Cad, and Tano) and characters like GS who are not the best of their race (undead Geos) but are extremely powerful.
Because EA/CG didn't follow canon in any way, we have messes like this where most of the characters are illogically placed in this game in terms of strength or skill. This is a game where we have Luke Skywalker with a rifle guys, how far fetched is that move!!
It's clear that the developers of the title never saw Star Wars and no research was done before they started developing characters. You'd figure a prerequisite would be to watch the 6 movies at minimum and maybe the Clone Wars series since they added Nightsisters and other Clone Wars characters as well but what do I know????
Very well thought out post @Mofojokers1992, but I ask this. What character is represented correctly? There are Sith characters who arnt Siths, slow characters who should be fast (VS, Cad, and Tano) and characters like GS who are not the best of their race (undead Geos) but are extremely powerful.
It is funny right lol but this is why i have a list of #23 characters to talk about. i believe they can balance lore and game nicely. Problem is they also need to figure out what is wrong with a character first otherwise they end up like Mace Windu.
Who should be a fast attacker dancing between light and dark in perfect balance. Instead he is a tank with abilities that just don't work......
Because EA/CG didn't follow canon in any way, we have messes like this where most of the characters are illogically placed in this game in terms of strength or skill. This is a game where we have Luke Skywalker with a rifle guys, how far fetched is that move!!
It's clear that the developers of the title never saw Star Wars and no research was done before they started developing characters. You'd figure a prerequisite would be to watch the 6 movies at minimum and maybe the Clone Wars series since they added Nightsisters and other Clone Wars characters as well but what do I know????
I'd consider is mandatory to
Watch all movies
Watch clone wars and rebels
Because of HK and for what makes star wars great - all non cannon material including books, games and fact sheets.
I'd also say they should spend at least 2 days a month learning what Star Wars is and how things work I.E Kyber Crystals and what colours mean, Revan's History and even things like Thermal detonators.
character balancing based on lore instead of sound, logical principles is a foolish idea.
popularity =/= correct. Get that straight OP
let's just see what happens shall we, already getting Ahsoka buffed. So i guess we are getting through.
Ahsoka needed a buff - she was / is pretty terrible. Not even considering from a misrepresentation position, but just utility wise in the game she is a bad character.
I don't think the aoe comparison is quite as simple as base damage. You need to also consider the debuff effects add well:
Phasma's aoe casts speed down and will do extra damage with advantage. This also enhances the turn meter advantage effect of victory march which benefits the whole team.
You have already mentioned the dots for Vader and Sid, but you also need to take into account that the dots help set Vader up for culling blade and Sid has good health steal on his aoe.
HK, Boba and JKG all cast useful debuffs with their aoe.
As it currently stands I would take any one of these characters over Kit just on aoe alone not to mention all the other utilities, characteristics and abilities they bring.
Even after all this, the problems with Kit's character balance and representation go beyond just the aoe and I think if some of the suggested changes were made it would be a step in the right direction.
HK, Boba, and JKG would be bad AOE options in an AOE theme because their damage is too low and their health is not nearly as good as Kits and they are much slower. Those are all bad combinations to use an in AOE theme against a fast high damage glass cannon squad. I do like Phasma in an AOE team - I think she's better overall than Kit with the meter push and speed down, but remember you need 4-5 AOE toons to pull it off. Kit and Phasma can be on the same team.
Just had another thought regarding aligning Kit's abilities with his fighting form Shii-Cho. Perhaps give him a passive ability to add X% damage or critical chance for each living enemy. As the enemy team dies off Kit becomes less powerful.
I don't think the aoe comparison is quite as simple as base damage. You need to also consider the debuff effects add well:
Phasma's aoe casts speed down and will do extra damage with advantage. This also enhances the turn meter advantage effect of victory march which benefits the whole team.
You have already mentioned the dots for Vader and Sid, but you also need to take into account that the dots help set Vader up for culling blade and Sid has good health steal on his aoe.
HK, Boba and JKG all cast useful debuffs with their aoe.
As it currently stands I would take any one of these characters over Kit just on aoe alone not to mention all the other utilities, characteristics and abilities they bring.
Even after all this, the problems with Kit's character balance and representation go beyond just the aoe and I think if some of the suggested changes were made it would be a step in the right direction.
HK, Boba, and JKG would be bad AOE options in an AOE theme because their damage is too low and their health is not nearly as good as Kits and they are much slower. Those are all bad combinations to use an in AOE theme against a fast high damage glass cannon squad. I do like Phasma in an AOE team - I think she's better overall than Kit with the meter push and speed down, but remember you need 4-5 AOE toons to pull it off. Kit and Phasma can be on the same team.
HK, Boba and JKG have their own issues which need addressing, we may see a post about them similar to this one in the future. ;-) It still is not a fair comparison because you should also consider the other abilities of these characters, not just their AoE. For example HK and Boba both have useful leader abilities, much more useful than Kit's. Boba and HK may be slow but their revive abilities increase their survivability and give them a shot at fighting back even after glass cannons have blown them away. And you can't discount the debuffs so quickly, ability block can be a game changer, especially if it prevents heals or secondary active abilities (thinking Yoda BM, Asajj dispel or recharged AoE, Kylo recharged AoE, Daka revive etc etc. As for JKG, I think it is pretty well agreed that she is not very useful despite her recent buff.
I see your point regarding AoE themed teams, but the point of this post is not about about AoE teams but the individual character Kit Fisto and whether or not his abilities and characteristics match his character.
The thing is that although in canon, Kit Fisto is truly the definition of a jedi master. You have to remember that in star wars episode 3, Darth Sidious kills him and two other jedi in a matter on seconds before the taking on Mace Windu alone.
The game is great and addicting but it isn't perfect. One should contemplate why a simple geonosian soldier, tie order pilot or a IG-86 Droid be as or more destructive than a lot of other memorable star wars characters?
character balancing based on lore instead of sound, logical principles is a foolish idea.
popularity =/= correct. Get that straight OP
let's just see what happens shall we, already getting Ahsoka buffed. So i guess we are getting through.
Ahsoka needed a buff - she was / is pretty terrible. Not even considering from a misrepresentation position, but just utility wise in the game she is a bad character.
Glad she is been loved really happy about it and i will have to see her in action. Got her 7* and maxed ready to go.
The thing is that although in canon, Kit Fisto is truly the definition of a jedi master. You have to remember that in star wars episode 3, Darth Sidious kills him and two other jedi in a matter on seconds before the taking on Mace Windu alone.
The game is great and addicting but it isn't perfect. One should contemplate why a simple geonosian soldier, tie order pilot or a IG-86 Droid be as or more destructive than a lot of other memorable star wars characters?
Well... Lucas wanted to depict Sid as a truly horrifying opponent. He also wanted to depict Anakin as a struggling and conflicted young man. See how that turned out...
I believe that Clone Wars redeemed Anakin as a character in the eyes of many fans. The movies didn't do him justice. And I think the same can be said about Kit Fisto.
I have him max as well and agree 100% that he is a joke amoung the Jedi on this game. Pretty bad when Jedi tanks bang harder than him. His speed is decent with a QGJ (L), but his AOE is only viable for tenacity up....which is now a Yoda skill for me. Thanks for this poll man. I couldn't agree more. Needs to be fixed.
I have him max as well and agree 100% that he is a joke amoung the Jedi on this game. Pretty bad when Jedi tanks bang harder than him. His speed is decent with a QGJ (L), but his AOE is only viable for tenacity up....which is now a Yoda skill for me. Thanks for this poll man. I couldn't agree more. Needs to be fixed.
Well i promise you I will hound everyone i can to get him the treatment that RG and now Ahsoka is getting.
Replies
I don't know how well Fisto performs on offense, but he is completely useless on defense. I've faced a 7* CUP in arena that was more of a threat than him.
Any hero can be half decent on offense, but how he performs on defense is just as important to make him a viable hero.
I can understand the importance of AOE teams and it sounds unreal. But Kit's AOE does almost 0 damage lol no joke.
It's hard to show unless you are prepared to max him out and step into arena with him. even on cantina there is no number for his AOE.
I promise you although this character is more personal for me. I wouldn't be bringing it up without good reason.
I urge you to try him at 7* maxed against arena teams. I know it looks like im a fan boy of Kit and i am to a point but he is not correct.
Edit : just to add:
taking in the buff is useless to most outside of sid or ben and only for 1 move.... the ability only has a chance is worse...
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
Have you ever used Plo Koon yourself? He does nowhere near that damage in my experience. 1K per toon on a good day.
There's a guy that challenges for #1 everyday on my server and that server is full of strong "meta" type speed teams - RG, Jinn etc. - he has a JKA, Jinn leader, Lumi, Old Ben, and Yoda. He can beat any of the teams that we put up in the D slot. I think if you had teams that could only be comprised of their groups - any other group would be hard pressed to defeat that Jedi combination - including Sith. That aside, let's get back to Fisto and what I see in his value.
Let me add some perspective on why I actually value Kit decently and I'll add some comparisons below for detail. For months the meta has been around speedy, high damage heroes. Even going back to when Poe was meta, I utilized tanky aoes to counter these squads. Now, these squads are still around, but it's RG in the place of Poe. RG can be tricky to get around, even with your own RG, if RNG goes bad. I still find it safer in some sets to just go with the AOE counter to get a needed win at lock time. So a tanky AOE toon - I value those guys at a much higher rate than most would because of how I use them in a theme vs. the meta of the past 3+ months. For example, no one talks about Snowtrooper right? He's slow...he's got an AOE that isn't crazy...but I have him maxed because he hits 7th hardest AOE in the game and has nearly 15k health - so he's very sturdy. He was at the time, the last piece to my AOE counter as I needed a 4th decent aoe to go against Poe teams. Kit is another hero that can fit this purpose very well. He has the added bonus of the chance to do counter damage - any additional damage is big in this tanky / fast aoe vs. glass cannon battle.
Now, given that taunter + high DPS has been meta close to almost the entirety of the game (Before Poe, the Han trap was pretty insane to face and now it's RG that is an obstacle), the AOE theme seems to be a good long-term approach to continue to broaden. Kit really is a perfect fit for that particular tactic. So for me - I see unique value in Kit as a combo that isn't easy to find - only about 1/3 of the roster even has AOE as a skill and then only a handful of that 1/3 either has the speed to hit before the high damage heroes OR has the required amount of health to absorb the damage without being killed. So that eliminates the following due to lack of health and speed:
Darth Maul
Ventress
Jawa
88
Lando
Veers
Datcha
CUPolice
Tarkin
Clone Sgt
Ugnaught
GG (he's borderline and could be in "tanking" with his ally taunt skill)
On the fast viable side you have:
Yoda
Sid
JKA
Tanky side you have:
Snowtrooper
Kylo
JKA
Magma (not really available now)
Kit
IG 100
Vader
Boba (counting some revives here for additional damage taking ability, but he's borderline at 12k)
Plo
HK
Phasma
JKG
Couple things to point out -
1. JKA is the only one on both lists - he's an extremely versatile and unique character
2. On the tanky side, Kit does higher AOE damage than JKG, Phasma, HK, Plo, Boba, Vader, and IG 100 (by a hair) - now, given that Magma isn't really available, Kit Fisto has the 4th highest AOE for a tanky character in the entire game, only behind Snowtrooper, Kylo, and JKA. Now we know speed is huge...and of those 3, only JKA is faster than Kit - he beats out Kylo by a bit and kills Snowtrooper in speed.
The TL;DR here would be: Kit Fisto as currently constructed has a unique combination of solid AOE+tanking+decent speed that most characters in the game do not possess.
That's a small number of hereos there that perform on defense though.
You seem to be making some big calls without any real data to back it up johnny. I can only presume you haven't maxed out fitso and actually used his aoe. If you had there is no way you could say it is adequate. Descriptions and "stats" are quite often misleading, you run a team like that above in arena and let me know how it goes. Pretty sure you will come back without the success you expect.
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I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.
I've been running aoe teams vs. the top arena teams for months now. It's not hard to conceptualize either - just take 5 AOE toons, add up the numbers on the damage they do. Rey has just over 10k health at max. Jinn is just over 10K - doesn't take a lot to knock them down. Sid and Yoda alone get them in the yellow. Then you have 3 AOEs after that to finish the job. I took #1 yesterday with Sid leader, Yoda, Snowtrooper, Kylo, and Phasma - Phasma has a very weak AOE - 2nd lowest listed on the game. Once you add in crits and leader buffs skills or offense up skills.[/quote]
On page 3 @Nonemo wrote up a brillant idea on Kit Fisto that plays on high risk/high reward. Have a look @JohnnySteelAlpha. I feel it would give him some unique ideas and still remain balanced.
Phasma's aoe casts speed down and will do extra damage with advantage. This also enhances the turn meter advantage effect of victory march which benefits the whole team.
You have already mentioned the dots for Vader and Sid, but you also need to take into account that the dots help set Vader up for culling blade and Sid has good health steal on his aoe.
HK, Boba and JKG all cast useful debuffs with their aoe.
As it currently stands I would take any one of these characters over Kit just on aoe alone not to mention all the other utilities, characteristics and abilities they bring.
Even after all this, the problems with Kit's character balance and representation go beyond just the aoe and I think if some of the suggested changes were made it would be a step in the right direction.
On page 3 @Nonemo wrote up a brillant idea on Kit Fisto that plays on high risk/high reward. Have a look @JohnnySteelAlpha. I feel it would give him some unique ideas and still remain balanced.
Actually --- that looks pretty good
Indeed alot of characters do and my list is that of #23 that need things from animation changes to complete overhauls.
This is only #2 out of #23 not including the tank thread that covered alot of bases.
A big +1 thanks Gio
It's clear that the developers of the title never saw Star Wars and no research was done before they started developing characters. You'd figure a prerequisite would be to watch the 6 movies at minimum and maybe the Clone Wars series since they added Nightsisters and other Clone Wars characters as well but what do I know????
It is funny right lol but this is why i have a list of #23 characters to talk about. i believe they can balance lore and game nicely. Problem is they also need to figure out what is wrong with a character first otherwise they end up like Mace Windu.
Who should be a fast attacker dancing between light and dark in perfect balance. Instead he is a tank with abilities that just don't work......
popularity =/= correct. Get that straight OP
I'd consider is mandatory to
Watch all movies
Watch clone wars and rebels
Because of HK and for what makes star wars great - all non cannon material including books, games and fact sheets.
I'd also say they should spend at least 2 days a month learning what Star Wars is and how things work I.E Kyber Crystals and what colours mean, Revan's History and even things like Thermal detonators.
Ahsoka needed a buff - she was / is pretty terrible. Not even considering from a misrepresentation position, but just utility wise in the game she is a bad character.
HK, Boba, and JKG would be bad AOE options in an AOE theme because their damage is too low and their health is not nearly as good as Kits and they are much slower. Those are all bad combinations to use an in AOE theme against a fast high damage glass cannon squad. I do like Phasma in an AOE team - I think she's better overall than Kit with the meter push and speed down, but remember you need 4-5 AOE toons to pull it off. Kit and Phasma can be on the same team.
HK, Boba and JKG have their own issues which need addressing, we may see a post about them similar to this one in the future. ;-) It still is not a fair comparison because you should also consider the other abilities of these characters, not just their AoE. For example HK and Boba both have useful leader abilities, much more useful than Kit's. Boba and HK may be slow but their revive abilities increase their survivability and give them a shot at fighting back even after glass cannons have blown them away. And you can't discount the debuffs so quickly, ability block can be a game changer, especially if it prevents heals or secondary active abilities (thinking Yoda BM, Asajj dispel or recharged AoE, Kylo recharged AoE, Daka revive etc etc. As for JKG, I think it is pretty well agreed that she is not very useful despite her recent buff.
I see your point regarding AoE themed teams, but the point of this post is not about about AoE teams but the individual character Kit Fisto and whether or not his abilities and characteristics match his character.
The game is great and addicting but it isn't perfect. One should contemplate why a simple geonosian soldier, tie order pilot or a IG-86 Droid be as or more destructive than a lot of other memorable star wars characters?
Glad she is been loved really happy about it and i will have to see her in action. Got her 7* and maxed ready to go.
Well... Lucas wanted to depict Sid as a truly horrifying opponent. He also wanted to depict Anakin as a struggling and conflicted young man. See how that turned out...
I believe that Clone Wars redeemed Anakin as a character in the eyes of many fans. The movies didn't do him justice. And I think the same can be said about Kit Fisto.
Well i promise you I will hound everyone i can to get him the treatment that RG and now Ahsoka is getting.