We don't want that. We want a sandbox mode and a GAC without prizes where you can fight your friends. Raid is boring anyway, just a waste of time of doing the same stuff almost everyday, over and over.
Just equalize the prizes on raid sith and then.... work on a friendly GAC.
I agree, raid are boring. I don't even go for the AAT; even if it means bad rewards.
Sith raid was boring before and after the change of HP.
It was boring when it was hard and it took the guild nearly 48h to complete any tier.
And now, the heroic tier ends in 2h but it still boring.
And the rewards are crappy.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
Is it?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment? Did you ask them if they enjoy the mercing itself or the rewards of having to do it? Were they always mercing or started due to the hstr solo scene?
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
Is it?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment?
Now you're just being pedantic. The process of mercing is an unnecessary hassle. People wouldn't even consider doing it if it wasn't for the rewards they want.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Dear @CG_TopHat all raids can be soloed by SLKR. and as I remember CG responded the new raids will be prepared If the current raids can be soloed..
Now, can you please share details of what is the new raid status?
- Are you gonna release new RAID? (perhaps based on Final Order)
- Are you gonna release new tier for curent raids (Rancor/Tank/Sithtriumvirate)
- or both? or none?
Thanks.
We don't want that. We want a sandbox mode and a GAC without prizes where you can fight your friends. Raid is boring anyway, just a waste of time of doing the same stuff almost everyday, over and over.
Just equalize the prizes on raid sith and then.... work on a friendly GAC.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
It's their choice. If they merc everybody wins: The mercenaries, the guild they are helping and their home guild. If they don't like the hassle - don't do it. I'm sure mercs only merc if it's worth the hassle.
Won't be the case when cg changes it. Since you were talking about how mercing scene came into being,....
Was I? You're imagining things now.
... I'm sure you remember they also changed the limitations of mercing which was much more profitable beforehand.
Yes? What's your point?
I'm sure mercs only merc if it's worth the hassle.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
Is it?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment? Did you ask them if they enjoy the mercing itself or the rewards of having to do it? Were they always mercing or started due to the hstr solo scene?
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
Is it?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment?
Now you're just being pedantic. The process of mercing is an unnecessary hassle. People wouldn't even consider doing it if it wasn't for the rewards they want.
So wait a minute. Maru is allowed to state unequivocally that all people who Merc do not enjoy Mercing? And I'm not allowed to point out that some people who do Merc enjoy it?
They enjoy it. They enjoy the rewards, obviously, but they also enjoy fighting TWs in a different guild.
Differentiating between the spoils of Mercing and the enjoyment of it is a dead argument for me. If people want better rewards, this is one way of obtaining them.
Mercing is not new. In the very early days of HAAT the guild I was in would not have completed HAAT if it weren't for a couple of Mercs who came along to help us over the line. This was back when those raid rewards were good, before we all stocked up vast quantities of what it pays out.
I myself left the same guild I now lead to help a smaller guild complete their first handful of HAATs. It was fun. The members of that guild were grateful, I enjoyed helping them out and a couple of that guild eventually wound up in my guild entirely because of it.
Anyway, I digress. I don't think it's OK for people to state things as absolute then dismiss evidence that counters their claim as insignificant.
I never merc'ed by the way, I'm not mercing now either. But until recent months, there was no such -do or die- incentive towards mercing either. So yeah, practical reality of this particular raid with particular reward structure causing a new merc wave is entirely new.
To me it's nothing new. In one of my guilds it happened ever since I joined them more than a year ago. It may be new to you but to me it isn't.
Not imagining anything.
I said all there is to say about the subject, rest will be rinse&repeat. Logic already found it's way to the community manager if not a few keyboard warriors who also know better but won't admit since they profit off of it.
I never merc'ed by the way, I'm not mercing now either. But until recent months, there was no such -do or die- incentive towards mercing either. So yeah, practical reality of this particular raid with particular reward structure causing a new merc wave is entirely new.
To me it's nothing new. In one of my guilds it happened ever since I joined them more than a year ago. It may be new to you but to me it isn't.
Not imagining anything.
That's got absolutely nothing to do with how merc'ing came to be, like you claim. Stop imagining things.
Merc'ing is not an appropriate solution to this. I get that some people enjoy it, and it helps the lower guilds get Traya and better gear, but why should I have to do that to get not crappy rewards because I decided to go for Rey instead of SLK?
There are many logistics around such things, and I shouldn't have to jump through hoops because my guild has 10+ SLK.
I never merc'ed by the way, I'm not mercing now either. But until recent months, there was no such -do or die- incentive towards mercing either. So yeah, practical reality of this particular raid with particular reward structure causing a new merc wave is entirely new.
To me it's nothing new. In one of my guilds it happened ever since I joined them more than a year ago. It may be new to you but to me it isn't.
Not imagining anything.
That's got absolutely nothing to do with how merc'ing came to be, like you claim. Stop imagining things.
@CG_TopHat Do you have any Information which you can share to us about If there is a new Raid? or do you plan it to leave up to @CG_Doja_Fett?
No need to wait on either. There is no new raid.
Even if there was, that doesn't change the poor payout structure of HSith. (and...back on topic!)
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@CG_TopHat Do you have any Information which you can share to us about If there is a new Raid? or do you plan it to leave up to @CG_Doja_Fett?
No need to wait on either. There is no new raid.
Even if there was, that doesn't change the poor payout structure of HSith. (and...back on topic!)
Even if there was, i think raids in general need a different payout structure, because all raids eventually hit the same problem and the newest raids don't get the SIM option while they are the latest raids
@CG_TopHat Do you have any Information which you can share to us about If there is a new Raid? or do you plan it to leave up to @CG_Doja_Fett?
No need to wait on either. There is no new raid.
Even if there was, that doesn't change the poor payout structure of HSith. (and...back on topic!)
Even if there was, i think raids in general need a different payout structure, because all raids eventually hit the same problem and the newest raids don't get the SIM option while they are the latest raids
I actually think the payout structure of the first two raids was okay - everyone got shards and there was a chance to drop full gear pieces outside of the top 10. The other rewards that were higher near the top (guild tokens, credits, etc.) aren't important enough to force mercing, guild hopping, etc. and were still present all the way down.
The problem with the structure of the HSith rewards (and how it's different from the other two raid structures):
1) It's significantly more top-heavy than the others.
2) There is no chance of a full g12 drop outside of the top 10.
3) There is only 1 GL that is guaranteed those rewards (and contrary to what some people in this thread think, prescribing play is never a "good thing").
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Just an unintended consequence. I'm not saying they shouldn't flatten the rewards but there will be unintended consequences if they do.
My hypothesis is that outcome in in fact the intended one based on the guess that SLKR solos have dramatically increased the amount of gear being given out - now that relics are mostly mandatory there is a very good incentive to eliminate right side full crafts while packaging it as a rewards curve flattening.
A lot of guilds were already clearing the raid before SLKR so I don't think it increased it all that much. Sure a few more lower guilds being able to finish, but a lot of SLKR owners probably don't merc any more than they did when they had a ns team that could clear a phase.
I really hope they don't decrease the gear flow. That would be just horrible with as many characters that eventually need relics. Especially for the newer players. They need all the help they can get to get some characters reliced in a reasonable amount of time.
This. Since HSith was released the "end-game" finish line (not that there truly is a thing) has moved considerably. There has been the introduction of relics, 4 GLs, JKLS, etc. Gear acquisition should speed up - not slow down.
Can you imagine a new player coming into the game thinking "Just 3 or so years until I can have GML!"
Exactly. That is probably the biggest issue in the game. Why would a new player spend to reduce the farm for a GL from 3 years to 2.5 years? Especially since by the time they get there, he won't even be meta.
They need to create some catchup mechanics for the new players or they'll give up before they get to the point where they'd want to spend.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
1. Actually caring enough to run a team and not just join
2. Running an effective team
Neither one of those are luck. And many don't choose to do that. If you have 50 solos, over time the rewards are relatively even. But if you have 10 solos and 40 joins, the rewards shouldn't be even. If you want the high rewards then put the effort in.
There are issues with the raid. The biggest is that you have less than an hour window to play. But simply flattening the rewards doesn't fix that. Individual raids for guilds that can easily clear them does. So that is the better solution.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
But getting up at 2:00 am is unreasonable for a game
You aren't required to get up at 2am. You can always choose a guild with more convenient raid times. I'm free in the evenings so I only consider guilds that run raids where I can get in most of the time.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
I think a sim option for all raids on the guild level and individual raids with a two day limit and rewards based on how much damage is the best solution.
Flattening rewards with no other chages doesn't really fix the biggest problems with the raids. It just removes any motivation to actually do more than join.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Replies
I'm not sure, but I highly doubt so. CM can tell the devs what the options are and expected impact of it. CMs pulling the strings doesn't make sense.
I agree, raid are boring. I don't even go for the AAT; even if it means bad rewards.
Sith raid was boring before and after the change of HP.
It was boring when it was hard and it took the guild nearly 48h to complete any tier.
And now, the heroic tier ends in 2h but it still boring.
And the rewards are crappy.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment?
By what metric are you measuring enjoyment? Did you ask them if they enjoy the mercing itself or the rewards of having to do it? Were they always mercing or started due to the hstr solo scene?
Now you're just being pedantic. The process of mercing is an unnecessary hassle. People wouldn't even consider doing it if it wasn't for the rewards they want.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Speak for yourself please.
Was I? You're imagining things now.
Yes? What's your point?
I'm sure mercs only merc if it's worth the hassle.
So wait a minute. Maru is allowed to state unequivocally that all people who Merc do not enjoy Mercing? And I'm not allowed to point out that some people who do Merc enjoy it?
They enjoy it. They enjoy the rewards, obviously, but they also enjoy fighting TWs in a different guild.
Differentiating between the spoils of Mercing and the enjoyment of it is a dead argument for me. If people want better rewards, this is one way of obtaining them.
Mercing is not new. In the very early days of HAAT the guild I was in would not have completed HAAT if it weren't for a couple of Mercs who came along to help us over the line. This was back when those raid rewards were good, before we all stocked up vast quantities of what it pays out.
I myself left the same guild I now lead to help a smaller guild complete their first handful of HAATs. It was fun. The members of that guild were grateful, I enjoyed helping them out and a couple of that guild eventually wound up in my guild entirely because of it.
Anyway, I digress. I don't think it's OK for people to state things as absolute then dismiss evidence that counters their claim as insignificant.
Not imagining anything.
I said all there is to say about the subject, rest will be rinse&repeat. Logic already found it's way to the community manager if not a few keyboard warriors who also know better but won't admit since they profit off of it.
That's got absolutely nothing to do with how merc'ing came to be, like you claim. Stop imagining things.
There are many logistics around such things, and I shouldn't have to jump through hoops because my guild has 10+ SLK.
What claim? Stop imagining things.
Please stay on topic.
No need to wait on either. There is no new raid.
Even if there was, that doesn't change the poor payout structure of HSith. (and...back on topic!)
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Even if there was, i think raids in general need a different payout structure, because all raids eventually hit the same problem and the newest raids don't get the SIM option while they are the latest raids
I actually think the payout structure of the first two raids was okay - everyone got shards and there was a chance to drop full gear pieces outside of the top 10. The other rewards that were higher near the top (guild tokens, credits, etc.) aren't important enough to force mercing, guild hopping, etc. and were still present all the way down.
The problem with the structure of the HSith rewards (and how it's different from the other two raid structures):
1) It's significantly more top-heavy than the others.
2) There is no chance of a full g12 drop outside of the top 10.
3) There is only 1 GL that is guaranteed those rewards (and contrary to what some people in this thread think, prescribing play is never a "good thing").
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Exactly. That is probably the biggest issue in the game. Why would a new player spend to reduce the farm for a GL from 3 years to 2.5 years? Especially since by the time they get there, he won't even be meta.
They need to create some catchup mechanics for the new players or they'll give up before they get to the point where they'd want to spend.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
1. Actually caring enough to run a team and not just join
2. Running an effective team
Neither one of those are luck. And many don't choose to do that. If you have 50 solos, over time the rewards are relatively even. But if you have 10 solos and 40 joins, the rewards shouldn't be even. If you want the high rewards then put the effort in.
There are issues with the raid. The biggest is that you have less than an hour window to play. But simply flattening the rewards doesn't fix that. Individual raids for guilds that can easily clear them does. So that is the better solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
You aren't required to get up at 2am. You can always choose a guild with more convenient raid times. I'm free in the evenings so I only consider guilds that run raids where I can get in most of the time.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
I think a sim option for all raids on the guild level and individual raids with a two day limit and rewards based on how much damage is the best solution.
Flattening rewards with no other chages doesn't really fix the biggest problems with the raids. It just removes any motivation to actually do more than join.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.