@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
Id find it also an acceptable solution if they buffed the rewards for 11-50 while also nerfing the top10 loot.The few times I made top10 @HSTR I got at least one sometimes two ful gearpieces. For 11th place you get about 25% of that. The scaling isnt representative of the effort every player has to put in to get there scores within the 25 min until someone logs his full clear.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Should the drop off be as dramatic as it is now? Probably not. But if you just ask for rewards to be adjusted, then the other issues don't get fixed. And rewards aren't the biggest issue in my opinion.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Before SLK 11th place would routinely be <500k points shy of 10th. Literally the same effort, just some bad RNG or timing, not a lack of teams.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Before SLK 11th place would routinely be <500k points shy of 10th. Literally the same effort, just some bad RNG or timing, not a lack of teams.
I added to the last post so that should address some of that. But if it's just rng, then next time rng will hurt the other person and 10th and 11th would switch back and forth, evening it out in the long run
If one person gets 10th all the time and one gets 11th all the time, that isn't rng.
Id find it also an acceptable solution if they buffed the rewards for 11-50 while also nerfing the top10 loot.The few times I made top10 @HSTR I got at least one sometimes two ful gearpieces. For 11th place you get about 25% of that. The scaling isnt representative of the effort every player has to put in to get there scores within the 25 min until someone logs his full clear.
The issue now is that top 10 is no longer a measure of effort, roster depth, and skill. Now it is just a measure of whether or not you have SLKR.
It is no longer a guild activity with guild rewards and it simply related to the shear cost of the g12 and g12+ pieces. Getting 3+ full crafts a week is worth several times the rewards from any other facet of the game.
This means two things: if you don’t have SLKR you are severely crippling your progress and if have SLKR and you’re not mercing - you should be.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Before SLK 11th place would routinely be <500k points shy of 10th. Literally the same effort, just some bad RNG or timing, not a lack of teams.
I added to the last post so that should address some of that. But if it's just rng, then next time rng will hurt the other person and 10th and 11th would switch back and forth, evening it out in the long run
If one person gets 10th all the time and one gets 11th all the time, that isn't rng.
Of course it's not always going to be the same scenario, and that's super far from the point. The point is getting 11th is painful, regardless of the reasons, because the drop off is so severe. As pointed out, that's specific to this raid. Why are the gear rewards so dramatically different in this raid? It's never made sense, but it makes even less now when you've got guilds with 40+ SLKR. We're just back to where we were 4 years ago with The Pit when placement was 100% RNG. At least then you could still get good rewards when you were RNG'ed into 40th.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
I'm not saying it is ideal. But it isn't actually harming anyone.
You are normalizing it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. Just like a once per month mission that is so hard it requires a ZOOM call to beat with any regularity is not an appropriate difficulty level.
I'm normalizing it by saying it isn't that bad? If so. Oh well. It isn't that bad. It hurts no one. That's my opinion. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But if you want to change my mind you need to explain how it hurts.
I agree it's not ideal. Neither is just flattening the reward structure. I have stated that individual raids solve the issues I see with the raids and gives us something to do for rewards.
And I'm not even sure what mission you are taking about with the zoom call. Assualt battles? If so that's off topic.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
And Assault Battles? What? No, the KAM mission. Still off topic.
On topic: Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Yeah I got that you think that. Maybe try explaining why you think that. Or what you propose instead. Or just keep repeating that over and over. But that last option won't change anyone's mind.
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
Because I hadn't realized we were on page 6 already:
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Before SLK 11th place would routinely be <500k points shy of 10th. Literally the same effort, just some bad RNG or timing, not a lack of teams.
I added to the last post so that should address some of that. But if it's just rng, then next time rng will hurt the other person and 10th and 11th would switch back and forth, evening it out in the long run
If one person gets 10th all the time and one gets 11th all the time, that isn't rng.
Of course it's not always going to be the same scenario, and that's super far from the point. The point is getting 11th is painful, regardless of the reasons, because the drop off is so severe. As pointed out, that's specific to this raid. Why are the gear rewards so dramatically different in this raid? It's never made sense, but it makes even less now when you've got guilds with 40+ SLKR. We're just back to where we were 4 years ago with The Pit when placement was 100% RNG. At least then you could still get good rewards when you were RNG'ed into 40th.
In a scenario where a guild has 40 slkrs, the rng evens out the rewards in the long run (assuming that all 40 people regularly participate and do their solo run). If they just sit out and then not get the top 10, then the top rewards are shared between those that choose to participate.
The biggest problem with flattening the rewards, is that it won't be 11-25 that get better rewards. It'll be 1-10 that gets nerfed so the other rewards seem better. So basically, you take rewards from those that choose to actually do more than just join so that those that hit join and do nothing get more.
And I'm well aware that it can be difficult to get in on a raid at the right time or if you have bad rng and have to back out, your run can go from potential top 5 to less than top ten. Unfortunately, nerfing top 10 rewards to make the other ones better doesn't change those issues.
So if we are going to ask for fixes, let's ask for one that would actually make the experience more enjoyable.
And just so everyone doesn't need to go find my suggested solution I'll list it again
1. Make the hstr simable at the guild level for those that can easily beat it. (Similar req as for hpit.) Then all members get rewards equal to the 40-50 rewards. Though if they want to be more generous then that's fine too.
2. Replace the simmed raid with an individual one for each guild member that gives them 2 days to do as much damage as possible with their individual rosters for additional rewards. Make clearing a phase or two required to hit top 10 equilvant rewards and a full clear equal to top 3.
This is by far more fair and fixes the main issue with the raid in that it is difficult to get in on time to do damage. And everyone can have a chance at the good rewards if they have the roster to do so.
Those that don't do anything but join may not like it since they wouldn't get very good rewards without effort. But that is fair.
This method would give a new challenge to many players with very little development time. Players could choose to go for SLKR to do the one team solo or build four or more teams to solo the raid since they would have time to run them.
And the part that CG cares about. Many would start developing teams for the raid since they couldn't depend on guildmates to pull them along. So they may even spend money on it.
That is my proposal rather than just complaining about the rewards.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
Id find it also an acceptable solution if they buffed the rewards for 11-50 while also nerfing the top10 loot.The few times I made top10 @HSTR I got at least one sometimes two ful gearpieces. For 11th place you get about 25% of that. The scaling isnt representative of the effort every player has to put in to get there scores within the 25 min until someone logs his full clear.
The issue now is that top 10 is no longer a measure of effort, roster depth, and skill. Now it is just a measure of whether or not you have SLKR.
It is no longer a guild activity with guild rewards and it simply related to the shear cost of the g12 and g12+ pieces. Getting 3+ full crafts a week is worth several times the rewards from any other facet of the game.
This means two things: if you don’t have SLKR you are severely crippling your progress and if have SLKR and you’re not mercing - you should be.
SLKR (or the ability to solo the raid) didn't cause this situation. Players not hitting top-10 were crippled this way ever since the current rewards structure was introduced. There were discussion about the rewards structure back in 2018 as well. Some guilds had players merc (or raid in alt guilds) long before SLKR was introduced.
I believe the only "issue" now is that some players who have gotten used to hitting top-10 every time without merc'ing are no longer guaranteed top-10 rewards since their guild mates now have a slice of the cake too. Players who for a long time (maybe the full 2 and a half years) have benefitted from that same reward structure. They got used to not sharing that cake.
I'm in two different guilds with about 30 SLKRs each. One guild had merc'ing going on before SLKR was released. The other guild only had one case of merc'ing (long before SLKR). SLKR doesn't force anyone to merc. It's a matter of guild culture and personal preferences.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
Dear @CG_TopHat all raids can be soloed by SLKR. and as I remember CG responded the new raids will be prepared If the current raids can be soloed..
Now, can you please share details of what is the new raid status?
- Are you gonna release new RAID? (perhaps based on Final Order)
- Are you gonna release new tier for curent raids (Rancor/Tank/Sithtriumvirate)
- or both? or none?
Thanks.
We don't want that. We want a sandbox mode and a GAC without prizes where you can fight your friends. Raid is boring anyway, just a waste of time of doing the same stuff almost everyday, over and over.
Just equalize the prizes on raid sith and then.... work on a friendly GAC.
Speak for yourself please.
I'll stick to topic. No more on this subject. Only equalizing prizes on raid sith.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
Why do you keep trying to limit the conversion to the OP? There are many reasons why the HSith rewards should be revisited.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
Why do you keep trying to limit the conversion to the OP? There are many reasons why the HSith rewards should be revisited.
Darkhelmet1138 clearly missed the context when they read (and responded to) GJO's post. GJO's post was on the topic defined by OP. I just explained it to them. What's your point? Do you even have a point?
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
its an option not a solution and in many cases, basically anywhere where you have more than 20 people with SLKR, not everyone wins. you basically have to gut your guild 2 times a week to get players into the top10.
option - yes absolutely
win - not really, except for those who want to do it and can find a guild looking for the help.
solution - far cry from even being called that, especially as we approach a saturation point on SLKR.
If merc'ing was really such a problem why would any guild accept a mercenary? If merc'ing was really such a problem why would anybody merc?
Is that a rhetorical question? People do it because the state of the game forced them to, hardly because they like it whatsoever. Is there even a single person that enjoys having to move in and out of their guilds every few days meanwhile deleting their track record in the guild.
If mercing is the only route for some to attain top 10 prizes, some of them probably do enjoy doing it.
Getting up at 4:00 am is some people's only way to attain a paycheck. That doesn't mean they enjoy it.
No, but one person not enjoying it doesn't mean nobody does, which is what @MaruMaru is suggesting.
Yes, I'm suggesting exactly that. The outcome of it=more gear being desirable/enjoyable has nothing to do with mercing being enjoyable.
That's right.
But someone will aways bring this up:
"Ahhh but I know one or two guys who enjoys it (waking up 4AM and mercing)".
C'mon, statistically irrelevant.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
Yeah I saw the part about that later. But I sometimes respond before reading everything. And I'm aware that the op mentioned 10 slkrs. But that isn't the case across all guilds so any solutions need to take that into account.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
That is assuming the guild they are mercing for can actually complete the raid without help.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Repeating the same sentence over and over again convinces no one. If you want us to buy into mercing being bad you need to have reasons.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Repeating the same sentence over and over again convinces no one. If you want us to buy into mercing being bad you need to have reasons.
I haven't said it's bad. I have only said that mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. And I have explained why a few times now.
But everytime someone comes on here and tries to tell people to merc if they don't want terrible rewards, I'm going to tell them that mercing isn't an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
Repeating the same sentence over and over again convinces no one. If you want us to buy into mercing being bad you need to have reasons.
it fails to address the root cause of the problem, any time you do that as a solution, it is generally accepted as a poor solution.
a mouse trap in your house does help address the mouse being in your house(mercing to get good rewards), but it does nothing to solve the problem of the mice getting in your house(bad rewards structure).
@CG_Doja_Fett the Sith raid rewards are being a big problem in top guilds as more and more players are able to easily solo but get poor rewards
CG previously implemented a uniform reward when introducing g12+ but nerfed the reward pool. I think returning to that with top 10 rewards or some extension of the reward pool from top 10 to top 25 needs to be done or so
How would extending the top-10 to top-25 reward pool help players who end up at rank 26 when Soloing? How would your suggestion solve anything?
The problem is automatically solved as more and more players in the guild can solo the raid. With many (or even all) players able to solo the raid the rewards will autonaticaly be distributed more evenly the more raids you complete, since the order in case of ties is random. Sometimes you'll rank high - sometimes low. It all evens out over a large number of raids.
Expecting an entire guild gradually solo a raid is not a solution, if anything, it's a disgrace.
Check the OP. The whole reason for this discussion is that in top guilds many players are able to solo the raid. That's what we are discussing - not the reward structure in general.
Still: Having many (or all) players able to solo the raid solves the problem and @Ultra's suggestion doesn't.
I'm in one of those guilds (330m+) and it didn't solve anything, it will not solve anything as time goes by either. There's now the reemergence of mercing. Almost half of the guild is constantly moving to merc. I bet you are aware of the resurgence of the merc market in the preceding months. This is not healthy for the game whatsoever.
It distributes the raid rewards more evenly among the guild members of your guild. It solved the problem of an uneven distribution where top-10 won an extra rewards chest. When mercing it's a win-win situation - both for the mercenaries and for the guild they are helping out.
And for the guild the mercs temporarily leaves. The merc gets top 10 and that let's 1 one other member that wouldn't have gotten top 10 get it. So that guild gets 11 members with top 10 rewards and is stronger for it.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
I have a SLKR (first of my guild) and I'm getting top 3 within my guild the last 3 months.
And still, it's time for socialism. Raid ranking only makes sense when you barely beat the raid. For mature raids doesn't make sense at all. Be inside of top 10, nowadays (for a lot of guilds), it's not linked to ability, resource management or something... it's only linked to luck.
We need more skill driven rewards, not luck driven rewards. What's the point being good at it if all that it takes is being lucky? But first of all, we need more evenly distributed rewards.
Listen to the old man. He knows things.
It is only down to luck if you have multiple people all soloing. If it isn't to that point, ither factors come into play.
Otherwise, there are more factors to getting top 10 than luck.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
Why do you keep trying to limit the conversion to the OP? There are many reasons why the HSith rewards should be revisited.
Darkhelmet1138 clearly missed the context when they read (and responded to) GJO's post. GJO's post was on the topic defined by OP. I just explained it to them. What's your point? Do you even have a point?
Yes, I have a point - and it was clearly stated. You quoted two sentences, and the point was in the second (which you either ignored or didn't read). The HSith rewards have many flaws and there are several reasons they should be revisited. The conversation doesn't need to be limited to guilds that have 10+ SLKR right now.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Replies
Because why should I have to leave my guild for any amount of time to get something resembling good rewards? That's completely ridiculous.
And if you cared about my proposal you would just read back.
It's one thing to have only the top 10 have a chance at a full + piece, but there's no reason everyone else shouldn't at least get 25/20 salvage, instead of having 3 possibilities
You don't have to merc. You can choose to or not to.
And I'm not scrolling back through 6 pages to find your solution.
So your solution is just for slightly better rewards at the bottom? That really solves very little. Those that want top rewards will still merc. And you still have to get in on a small window to try to do well. So not a great solution.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
It takes just as much effort to get 11th as it does 10th, so why should the rewards not be almost as good?
If there are 11 solos, then yes. But the placement is determined by rng so you'll likely get your share of rewards over the long term.
If you are talking guilds that don't have 10 solos, then that's just not true. The person that got 10th developed teams that could do more damage and ran them more effectively. That's why they got a higher score.
Should the drop off be as dramatic as it is now? Probably not. But if you just ask for rewards to be adjusted, then the other issues don't get fixed. And rewards aren't the biggest issue in my opinion.
Before SLK 11th place would routinely be <500k points shy of 10th. Literally the same effort, just some bad RNG or timing, not a lack of teams.
I added to the last post so that should address some of that. But if it's just rng, then next time rng will hurt the other person and 10th and 11th would switch back and forth, evening it out in the long run
If one person gets 10th all the time and one gets 11th all the time, that isn't rng.
The issue now is that top 10 is no longer a measure of effort, roster depth, and skill. Now it is just a measure of whether or not you have SLKR.
It is no longer a guild activity with guild rewards and it simply related to the shear cost of the g12 and g12+ pieces. Getting 3+ full crafts a week is worth several times the rewards from any other facet of the game.
This means two things: if you don’t have SLKR you are severely crippling your progress and if have SLKR and you’re not mercing - you should be.
Of course it's not always going to be the same scenario, and that's super far from the point. The point is getting 11th is painful, regardless of the reasons, because the drop off is so severe. As pointed out, that's specific to this raid. Why are the gear rewards so dramatically different in this raid? It's never made sense, but it makes even less now when you've got guilds with 40+ SLKR. We're just back to where we were 4 years ago with The Pit when placement was 100% RNG. At least then you could still get good rewards when you were RNG'ed into 40th.
In a scenario where a guild has 40 slkrs, the rng evens out the rewards in the long run (assuming that all 40 people regularly participate and do their solo run). If they just sit out and then not get the top 10, then the top rewards are shared between those that choose to participate.
The biggest problem with flattening the rewards, is that it won't be 11-25 that get better rewards. It'll be 1-10 that gets nerfed so the other rewards seem better. So basically, you take rewards from those that choose to actually do more than just join so that those that hit join and do nothing get more.
And I'm well aware that it can be difficult to get in on a raid at the right time or if you have bad rng and have to back out, your run can go from potential top 5 to less than top ten. Unfortunately, nerfing top 10 rewards to make the other ones better doesn't change those issues.
So if we are going to ask for fixes, let's ask for one that would actually make the experience more enjoyable.
1. Make the hstr simable at the guild level for those that can easily beat it. (Similar req as for hpit.) Then all members get rewards equal to the 40-50 rewards. Though if they want to be more generous then that's fine too.
2. Replace the simmed raid with an individual one for each guild member that gives them 2 days to do as much damage as possible with their individual rosters for additional rewards. Make clearing a phase or two required to hit top 10 equilvant rewards and a full clear equal to top 3.
This is by far more fair and fixes the main issue with the raid in that it is difficult to get in on time to do damage. And everyone can have a chance at the good rewards if they have the roster to do so.
Those that don't do anything but join may not like it since they wouldn't get very good rewards without effort. But that is fair.
This method would give a new challenge to many players with very little development time. Players could choose to go for SLKR to do the one team solo or build four or more teams to solo the raid since they would have time to run them.
And the part that CG cares about. Many would start developing teams for the raid since they couldn't depend on guildmates to pull them along. So they may even spend money on it.
That is my proposal rather than just complaining about the rewards.
If you had kept on reading you would have seen that mentioned as well.
Check the OP. This whole discussion is based on guilds having more than 10 players Soloing.
It's an option - not a solution. If choosing that option everybody wins.
SLKR (or the ability to solo the raid) didn't cause this situation. Players not hitting top-10 were crippled this way ever since the current rewards structure was introduced. There were discussion about the rewards structure back in 2018 as well. Some guilds had players merc (or raid in alt guilds) long before SLKR was introduced.
I believe the only "issue" now is that some players who have gotten used to hitting top-10 every time without merc'ing are no longer guaranteed top-10 rewards since their guild mates now have a slice of the cake too. Players who for a long time (maybe the full 2 and a half years) have benefitted from that same reward structure. They got used to not sharing that cake.
I'm in two different guilds with about 30 SLKRs each. One guild had merc'ing going on before SLKR was released. The other guild only had one case of merc'ing (long before SLKR). SLKR doesn't force anyone to merc. It's a matter of guild culture and personal preferences.
by IMR metric
I'll stick to topic. No more on this subject. Only equalizing prizes on raid sith.
That's an opinion. First off, it's a hassle for the players mercing and the officers of both guilds. Second, the player mercing is either replacing someone in the guild they are mercing for or taking rewards that would be someone else's based on where they finish.
I've been a merc, I've been an officer, and I've been in a guild that brought in a merc or two. Not everybody wins.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Why do you keep trying to limit the conversion to the OP? There are many reasons why the HSith rewards should be revisited.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Darkhelmet1138 clearly missed the context when they read (and responded to) GJO's post. GJO's post was on the topic defined by OP. I just explained it to them. What's your point? Do you even have a point?
1. It's apparently worth the Hassle.
2. The merc helps the guild they are merc'ing for either complete a raid they would orherwise not complete or complete it faster. Hence a win for them. If a guild takes in a player for one raid without having any benefit (the guild helps out the one player and not the other way around) I wouldn't call it merc'ing.
Yes, everybody wins with merc'ing.
Merc and 2 guilds. But ok, the player which was replaced doesn't win unless they can have a raid with the merc's guild.
Mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
its an option not a solution and in many cases, basically anywhere where you have more than 20 people with SLKR, not everyone wins. you basically have to gut your guild 2 times a week to get players into the top10.
option - yes absolutely
win - not really, except for those who want to do it and can find a guild looking for the help.
solution - far cry from even being called that, especially as we approach a saturation point on SLKR.
In Media Res?
Yeah I saw the part about that later. But I sometimes respond before reading everything. And I'm aware that the op mentioned 10 slkrs. But that isn't the case across all guilds so any solutions need to take that into account.
That is assuming the guild they are mercing for can actually complete the raid without help.
Repeating the same sentence over and over again convinces no one. If you want us to buy into mercing being bad you need to have reasons.
I haven't said it's bad. I have only said that mercing is not an appropriate solution to terrible rewards. And I have explained why a few times now.
But everytime someone comes on here and tries to tell people to merc if they don't want terrible rewards, I'm going to tell them that mercing isn't an appropriate solution to terrible rewards.
it fails to address the root cause of the problem, any time you do that as a solution, it is generally accepted as a poor solution.
a mouse trap in your house does help address the mouse being in your house(mercing to get good rewards), but it does nothing to solve the problem of the mice getting in your house(bad rewards structure).
Yes, I have a point - and it was clearly stated. You quoted two sentences, and the point was in the second (which you either ignored or didn't read). The HSith rewards have many flaws and there are several reasons they should be revisited. The conversation doesn't need to be limited to guilds that have 10+ SLKR right now.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*