SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Xagen wrote: »
    SEE with relic Siths was able to complete 4/4 on Phase 4 of Dark Geo, it's true, but High Relic Sith could do definitely 3/4 without him, if he is useful for Dark Geo only, it's sad, as having relic for example Night Sisters you can also complete 4/4 on Phase 4.

    G11 NIHILUS IS GOD TIER under g11 traya, DESTROYS P4 GEO TB 4/4!!!
    (no, my mods are not good)

    p4i70cn91dsx.png

  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    @VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    @VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.
  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.

    I am looking for some demonstration of the change that was in the update and how this change effects the team. do you have a link for that video?

    I'm just trying to help.
  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.

    I am looking for some demonstration of the change that was in the update and how this change effects the team. do you have a link for that video?

    I'm just trying to help.



    bulldog also upload one but he already deleted it
  • Eweff
    376 posts Member
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.
  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    Eweff wrote: »
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.

    I'm just trying to help, I am by no means the only way data and other info is getting to them about this.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Eweff wrote: »
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.

    Yeah that's the problem,,so few people have SEE compared to the other GLs and no one wants him now, so the videos on youtube are sparse.

    It's up to us to make videos and show I guess, i need to get some time to do it
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.

    I saw someone say this new bug fix wasn't just about Malak but also about some interaction with 5s in the KAM mission (I can't run that mission cuz my clones really suck). Something about 5s passing along negative max protection when he died? Didn't make sense to me bc my clones suck so I don't give that mission much attention or thought :joy: Sounded like a really terrible bug though for that mission.
  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.

    I saw someone say this new bug fix wasn't just about Malak but also about some interaction with 5s in the KAM mission (I can't run that mission cuz my clones really suck). Something about 5s passing along negative max protection when he died? Didn't make sense to me bc my clones suck so I don't give that mission much attention or thought :joy: Sounded like a really terrible bug though for that mission.

    I am skeptical of that, as 5s would never end up in scenario where he would have no protection. This fix was very specifically to address a change a while ago, that gave any toon with no protection a huge negative number, which i believe are mostly sith, with this ability, and now anyone facing a SEE could also fall into this spot. I guess ships facing MAL too. but thats about it.

    this would in no way effect any toon that is not having max protection removed to 0.
  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

    I didn't watch all of the video of the top one in the set posted. but the first few and the one illustrated in the bottom one, dont show him just being nuked. in fact he seems quite survivable, considering the magnitude of the damage.

    if he didn't before, there is nothing to really test.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

    I didn't watch all of the video of the top one in the set posted. but the first few and the one illustrated in the bottom one, dont show him just being nuked. in fact he seems quite survivable, considering the magnitude of the damage.

    if he didn't before, there is nothing to really test.

    If he didn't what before?

  • Kyno
    27516 posts Moderator
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

    I didn't watch all of the video of the top one in the set posted. but the first few and the one illustrated in the bottom one, dont show him just being nuked. in fact he seems quite survivable, considering the magnitude of the damage.

    if he didn't before, there is nothing to really test.

    If he didn't what before?

    He didn't gain more max protection before after they went to 0.
  • "A_HighCommand
    Live QA (Bugs and Issues)
    31m
    After checking with the team it was working the same way before the update, meaning SEE wasn't gaining any Protection from enemies with 0 max Protection.
    As for the issue with "Deceived" not spreading when SEE is transformed into his ultimate, we have already flagged this as a bug."

    Above is a copy paste from reddit. Looks like there is a bug with deceived. Not sure how much this bug fix will help though.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    SithAmer wrote: »
    "A_HighCommand
    Live QA (Bugs and Issues)
    31m
    After checking with the team it was working the same way before the update, meaning SEE wasn't gaining any Protection from enemies with 0 max Protection.
    As for the issue with "Deceived" not spreading when SEE is transformed into his ultimate, we have already flagged this as a bug."

    Above is a copy paste from reddit. Looks like there is a bug with deceived. Not sure how much this bug fix will help though.

    Deceived should just auto apply to all enemies every time SEE moves.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    See vs Rey is fine. Without thrawn, This turns into a 1v5 at the end. With thrawn, it’s better. This is not necessarily a video showing what is wrong with SEE. I have relatively strong mods.

    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
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