As an all around figure I can see SEE climbing because of his prerequisites. Much easier then the other 3 GLs
Luke would be last only because of those.
Meh, you have to take SID to R7. That makes SEE's requirements awfully hard to swallow compared to JML. His prerequisites are tough but every single one of those legendaries that make them tough are some of the best in the game.
You tend to be "meh" about the easiest GL to obtain by req's. So far, each GL offers different strengths and weaknesses. I would concede that SEE is possibly the least strongest of the 4 currently, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way as people use him, nor should he get/deserve a buff. Like it or not, JML has the steepest req's of all GL's, and I would say he isn't as good as Rey.
*EDIT: for spelling
Rey and Kylo have only marginaly higher reqs than SEE, and as for JML (as has been stated several times before) most veteran players already had most of his reqs before he was even confirmed. I personally have several friends who went for JML instead of SEE because he was easier. Most of his reqs were also fantastic characters on their own, and many of them were already required for JKL, whos an achievement on his own, so complaining about gearing and farming great characters as opposed to Sidious or Krennic seems rather silly.
I unfortunately dismiss your opinion as much as you dismissed mine. All good....points were made and they stand. Marginally? Not really, but I understand that reply in the context of this thread. Sidious and Krennic are silly, agreed...but so are MANY of the req's of all the GL's, SEE just happens to have the most accessible. Nothing to dispute...and unfortunately your friends aren't the only ones who play the game.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
I'm not sure what exactly kind of point you're making here in CG's defense @Kyno.
Maybe the problem with this is amplified by the face that the kit reveal came less than a week before release day. Not to mention stats and mastery were not revealed with the kit. Nor could testing with said kit to prove any suspicions be done until he was unlocked. Nor could you test with ultimate unless you were a kraken or waited weeks to farm.
On top of that, I think you hit exactly on the point. People do feel this way, overwhelmingly. That's why there's only so many of SEE in the world. They took your advice to heart. You are only proving that he is bad and needs work by trying to point out a simple fact. Bad characters don't get farmed unless they have a use or unless they were expected to be much better. He performs below expectations, and his only uses are overshadowed by cheaper teams or are extremely niche (such as beating JML and only in certain lineups).
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
but all the points they brought up are visible in the kit and have nothing to do with his power. so thats my point.
Not all the points. I understand you can't exactly comb through a week and a half of posts, but a large amount of people were complaining about damage, which isn't visible in the kit, and about basically only having one move post-ult, which was not explained well in the kit reveal. Not to mention, again, that the kit reveal came like one day before releasing the character, so we hardly had the time to digest any of the information and theory-craft, let alone *guess* at stats and mastery like you seem to be implying we should've done.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
I'm not sure what exactly kind of point you're making here in CG's defense Kyno.
Maybe the problem with this is amplified by the face that the kit reveal came less than a week before release day. Not to mention stats and mastery were not revealed with the kit. Nor could testing with said kit to prove any suspicions be done until he was unlocked. Nor could you test with ultimate unless you were a kraken or waited weeks to farm.
On top of that, I think you hit exactly on the point. People do feel this way, overwhelmingly. That's why there's only so many of SEE in the world. They took your advice to heart. You are only proving that he is bad and needs work by trying to point out a simple fact. Bad characters don't get farmed unless they have a use or unless they were expected to be much better. He performs below expectations, and his only uses are overshadowed by cheaper teams or are extremely niche (such as beating JML and only in certain lineups).
It might make more sense if you dont come at this from a perspective that j am defending anyone, because I'm not.
The post I was replying to, stated several points that were very evident in his kit.
When did I say he was good?
When did I not agree with others that he needs a touch up?
On top of that I have been asking for over a week at this point for more ammunition towards the points being raised, just so I can drop them in a channel for review of SEE, as part of them keeping an eye on his as was stated.
So I'm not sure what point you were trying to make either.
As an all around figure I can see SEE climbing because of his prerequisites. Much easier then the other 3 GLs
Luke would be last only because of those.
Meh, you have to take SID to R7. That makes SEE's requirements awfully hard to swallow compared to JML. His prerequisites are tough but every single one of those legendaries that make them tough are some of the best in the game.
You tend to be "meh" about the easiest GL to obtain by req's. So far, each GL offers different strengths and weaknesses. I would concede that SEE is possibly the least strongest of the 4 currently, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way as people use him, nor should he get/deserve a buff. Like it or not, JML has the steepest req's of all GL's, and I would say he isn't as good as Rey.
*EDIT: for spelling
Rey and Kylo have only marginaly higher reqs than SEE, and as for JML (as has been stated several times before) most veteran players already had most of his reqs before he was even confirmed. I personally have several friends who went for JML instead of SEE because he was easier. Most of his reqs were also fantastic characters on their own, and many of them were already required for JKL, whos an achievement on his own, so complaining about gearing and farming great characters as opposed to Sidious or Krennic seems rather silly.
I unfortunately dismiss your opinion as much as you dismissed mine. All good....points were made and they stand. Marginally? Not really, but I understand that reply in the context of this thread. Sidious and Krennic are silly, agreed...but so are MANY of the req's of all the GL's, SEE just happens to have the most accessible. Nothing to dispute...and unfortunately your friends aren't the only ones who play the game.
How exactly are Rey and Kylo harder to get than SEE? Sure, they required 2 marquees, but that doesnt affect anyone farming them today.
Why do you think there are several times more JMLs in the game than SEE? You think my friends are the only ones in the game who had G13 Rebels and Jedi before JML was announced? Meanwhile try finding people who had G13 Empire and OG sith and I promise you the difference will be noticeable.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
but all the points they brought up are visible in the kit and have nothing to do with his power. so thats my point.
Not all the points. I understand you can't exactly comb through a week and a half of posts, but a large amount of people were complaining about damage, which isn't visible in the kit, and about basically only having one move post-ult, which was not explained well in the kit reveal. Not to mention, again, that the kit reveal came like one day before releasing the character, so we hardly had the time to digest any of the information and theory-craft, let alone *guess* at stats and mastery like you seem to be implying we should've done.
I actually do read, almost all of the posts on the Forum.
The quote you have there is in reference and response to one post.
On top of that I have been asking for over a week at this point for more ammunition towards the points being raised, just so I can drop them in a channel for review of SEE, as part of them keeping an eye on his as was stated.
.
What do you need? I'll see if I can find it. Though we are not all lying here, I don't think we need to provide evidence as long as the devs have the ability to test SEE out in game and run through all the scenarios we are stating in this thread. They can see for themselves. And, on top of it, the devs would be getting paid to do it, we are not. 😘😂
Joking but serious.
On top of that I have been asking for over a week at this point for more ammunition towards the points being raised, just so I can drop them in a channel for review of SEE, as part of them keeping an eye on his as was stated.
.
What do you need? I'll see if I can find it. Though we are not all lying here, I don't think we need to provide evidence as long as the devs have the ability to test SEE out in game and run through all the scenarios we are stating in this thread. They can see for themselves. And, on top of it, the devs would be getting paid to do it, we are not. 😘😂
Joking but serious.
I absolutely hate that I can play perfectly with SEE, get kylo down to yellow, in ultimate with full health SEE and still lose badly. The problem is my basic hitting non crit for 13k and his basic critting me for 140k. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. See needs more damage vs DS period.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
So how does SEE beat JML under bastila lead with wat on the team? I wasted a lot of crystals trying different things today to no avail. If there isn’t a way to win then I change my vote on SEE needing a buff. It can’t be WAI that JML recovers 150k protection up every turn even when his protection is drained down to nothing.
Can't even beat rey since the update, with the ult.
Why not just give a title called "GL on the bench" to those who unlocked SEE since thats what he is now
So how does SEE beat JML under bastila lead with wat on the team? I wasted a lot of crystals trying different things today to no avail. If there isn’t a way to win then I change my vote on SEE needing a buff. It can’t be WAI that JML recovers 150k protection up every turn even when his protection is drained down to nothing.
The weird thing there is Protection Up being recovered at all in the first place. Wat Shield Tech regenerates Protection, not Protection Up. Protection is based on Max Protection, which SEE drains. Protection Up is based on Max HP.
It's becoming increasingly clear that this prot drain gimmick being bugged was relevant to SEE doing much, and that JML being vulnerable to prot drain in the first place is part of what makes SEE "strong." But this says less about SEE being strong and more about JML having a vulnerability that SEE can exploit. In general, SEE is incredibly weak.
Maybe JML and SEE were made weak due to fears that the Jedi and Sith factions would be too strong, but SEE is just grossly underperforming as a GL. It also shows how easily overrated modest mastery gains can be compared to old boosts to stats like Offense % and CD %. Aside from SEE's horrific damage, there he's just not delivering as a GL--and some of that couldn't be known without seeing him in practice, and some of that was foreseeable based on his kit. Again, some caution was due as a result of Sith/Jedi tags, but SEE is far too often dead weight (sometimes close to dead weight and sometimes even worse).
Nobody's asking for SEE to smash everything that attacks him. But to struggle so hard on offense *as a result of SEE being so bad* is just incredibly disappointing. If people are tying themselves into knots trying to argue that putting R7 on sidious is "easier" then they don't disagree--they're just saying that they prefer SEE to be this bad.
@Shiryu it's true, SEE is immensely vulnerable to not being able to use special abilities. It's a huge weakness. Without linking, he can't charge ultimate much. And his ultimate doesn't do a ton, so he they can just AB his one long-CD ability.
But I'm okay with vulnerabilities, even if it allows JML to beat SEE. (It's also cool how even though jedi have some titans, JML is able to, you know, buff them and do things). Vulnerabilities are kinda cool sometimes, even if too much of it is too easily countered. What isn't cool is not failing to balance those vulnerabilities with appropriate strength--something SEE severely lacks. Like, say, having a GL start out weak but then after ultimate is strong enough to make up for that weakness!
If there was something in SLKR or SEE's kits that would make SLKR are pretty solid counter to SEE, that'd be kind of unfortunate (SLKR is older meta, very common in arena, and good everywhere) but that's not the case. What makes SLKR crush SEE so hard is SLKR's amazing kit both as a leader and a GL, while SEE is a very meh leader and doesn't feel like a GL at all, but is almost a total sack of weakness with a couple narrow anti-jedi gimmicks.
I don't usually post on the forums, in fact, I rarely even check the forums outside of when we get updates. With that said, I felt compelled to post about SEE because honestly I am insanely disappointed with spending a single cent to unlock this toon.
I'll preface this by saying that SEE is not a weak toon. In fact, if I had to rank him, I would place him somewhere around JKL level. His ability to destroy jedis is impressive. With that said, that feels rather unacceptable for a toon that is not a legendary but is instead a GL. He doesn't feel like a GL. But unlike JKL, who can get slotted behind JML or Rey, I can't place SEE behind SLKR, and so I am stuck with a toon I rarely use in arena. A toon I won't use in raids. A toon who adds nothing to my DSTB roster (I was already getting 4/4 with Trium + Malak and 4/4 with DR+SE). A crap ton of resources for a toon that is not at the very top. That ignores the plethora of poor toons we were forced to farm and relic (looking at Sidious, RG, Maul, Tarkin...who at least has a cap ship...etc.). That wouldn't be a problem if SEE was at least sitting properly near the top, like the other 3 GL. Instead, it feels like I threw resources at a black hole.
Now, on to the issues with SEE.
1) He has very limited synergy with the other sith toons. This is a multifold issue. The main problems being that enemy toons need to take a turn/action to help charge his ult (a). But there are other issues included in this lack of synergy (b)-(c).
a1) The SE toons focus heavily on control with the fear debuff. That means using them on the team makes charging the ult a slow, arduous process. That wouldn't be a problem if the team could do damage, but they don't hit hard enough under SEE lead (unless you're fighting JML due to the immense anti-jedi synergy). So maybe a small fix here would be adding ult charge when enemies take a turn? That would at least help get him to ult before the battle is lost.
a2) The Trium toons (and Malak) focus heavily on crit based damage on their unique. Sion gets to HoH from this, Traya stacks damage, Malak gives fear. Unfortunately, linking an enemy means they won't crit, preventing boosts for your team. Maybe a fix here would be that link decreases crit damage instead? If critting still happened but instead did marginally more damage than a standard attack, that in itself would help the team a ton.
a3) Deceived prevents counters which prevents enemies from using abilities which slows the ult charge down. I think this could get coupled with a2 in that you could decrease the damage done or something. But again, SEE needs all the help he can get when it comes to charging his ult and Deceived actively works to slow that charge down.
b) The fact he prevents sith from reviving. I mean this one is self-explanatory and confusing. Why? GAS lead, SLKR unique, Rey WW, etc., already prevent revives? Why further weaken the toon by amplifying that? Sion already isn't the strongest of tanks so preventing revives makes him even more mediocre.
c) The focus on protection recovery. Almost all sith toons have very heavy duty health based synergy. Savage has HoT, Sid and Maul gain max health, Vader heals from dots, Traya bonus protection is based on max health, DN unique, HoH revive, DR, SiM, and BSF unique, and Malak's everything. So while the protection recovery isn't necessarily bad per se, if you decreased the protection recovery and added health recovery to that ability, it would be better.
2) His ult transformation is a wasted turn. Self-explanatory. If he took a bonus turn or auto used an ability or anything, it would be much better. In the wasted time that you transform, SLKR and co have pounded your team to dust and gained yet another ult, Rey and co have taken multiple turns and gained yet another ult. Even JML ult has more oomph to it, with the cleansing and the boosting of his team. SEE just transforms and leaves his allies (if any are even still alive) out to die and power up the enemy.
3) His anti-jedi synergy, while incredible, leaves him in a very niche position. If I was told in the developer insight or while farming that his whole shtick was to be a JML counter, I would not have spent the resources on him. Currently, that's all his kit is. A powerhouse vs JML but lacking elsewhere. I imagine if you just halved or 1/4 the boosts he gets vs jedi's vs everyone else, that would go a long way. I don't get why sow discord doesn't passively apply to DS enemies too. That definitely leaves him in a hole. That's a lesser complaint but noticeable.
4) Link. I've already referenced the preventing crit issues (see a2) but the other problems with link include the fact that you are forced to link a taunt (who you will likely kill shortly) and the fact the link goes away once you've killed said tank. Further, the fact that link effects don't do much vs other GL mean that SLKR and Rey are still taking your team to pound town. Again, this is something that works amazingly vs JML, but is rather worthless vs other comps. I personally think the link turns should ignore taunt and that the link effects should allow crits but decrease crit damage AND should also apply to GL.
This is not an exhaustive list, just what I've noticed while using him. I honestly haven't used him much because of how unimpressive he is. When I unlocked SLKR I immediately felt what the toon could do. SEE by comparison has made me want to drop the game and ask for a refund. I know the CG team worked hard making this toon, it just feels like the testing wasn't there tbh. When I use him vs JML I can see what the team meant in designing him. But vs anyone else he is just so underwhelming or downright worthless. I didn't farm him so he could be the +1 to my Vader-GL counter teams . I just hope this at least helps you all pinpoint some of the problems so you can improve him.
Thanks for reading.
Wow this was a great feedback post, matches my thoughts after over a hundred arena battles using SEE with Ultimate.
There's a lot that I like about SEE, but it makes the game less interesting when one GL is unpopular due to lower performance and utility. My guess is we'll see an arena meta with 1/3 Rey, 1/3 SLKR, 1/3 JML and just a few SEE stragglers. It would be better if there were an even distribution of the four, with a few non-GL counter teams mixed in.
When I read the kit reveal, stacking mastery sounded great, but in reality it's consistently underwhelming. The Developer Insight said "the Ultimate changes Palpatine to a very strong attacker", but in reality his transformed damage output is mediocre compared to other GL's. It feels clunky the way he lacks synergy with Sith, his link gets stuck on a taunt or broken by GAS, and activating the Ultimate wastes a turn. Reading the kit reveal, the mass assist on So Be It Jedi sounded good, but in reality it's tanks assisting and they are typically disabled by the time you use it. SEE's strength versus JML is a plus, but the gameplay of this matchup is dull and provides limited options. It's not great to have a characters greatest strength result in the player always tapping the auto button.
My time using SEE has consistently given the impression he is better than a legendary but not on par with the benefits of a GL and that the fundamentals of his kit are good, but tuning is 80% complete.
So how does SEE beat JML under bastila lead with wat on the team? I wasted a lot of crystals trying different things today to no avail. If there isn’t a way to win then I change my vote on SEE needing a buff. It can’t be WAI that JML recovers 150k protection up every turn even when his protection is drained down to nothing.
The weird thing there is Protection Up being recovered at all in the first place. Wat Shield Tech regenerates Protection, not Protection Up. Protection is based on Max Protection, which SEE drains. Protection Up is based on Max HP.
It's becoming increasingly clear that this prot drain gimmick being bugged was relevant to SEE doing much, and that JML being vulnerable to prot drain in the first place is part of what makes SEE "strong." But this says less about SEE being strong and more about JML having a vulnerability that SEE can exploit. In general, SEE is incredibly weak.
Maybe JML and SEE were made weak due to fears that the Jedi and Sith factions would be too strong, but SEE is just grossly underperforming as a GL. It also shows how easily overrated modest mastery gains can be compared to old boosts to stats like Offense % and CD %. Aside from SEE's horrific damage, there he's just not delivering as a GL--and some of that couldn't be known without seeing him in practice, and some of that was foreseeable based on his kit. Again, some caution was due as a result of Sith/Jedi tags, but SEE is far too often dead weight (sometimes close to dead weight and sometimes even worse).
Nobody's asking for SEE to smash everything that attacks him. But to struggle so hard on offense *as a result of SEE being so bad* is just incredibly disappointing. If people are tying themselves into knots trying to argue that putting R7 on sidious is "easier" then they don't disagree--they're just saying that they prefer SEE to be this bad.
The way he gains and regens protection up has been brought up multiple times, before and after the protection update.
It is not a bug, it is 100% working the way it should.
That being said they are keeping an eye on it for potential changes.
So how does SEE beat JML under bastila lead with wat on the team? I wasted a lot of crystals trying different things today to no avail. If there isn’t a way to win then I change my vote on SEE needing a buff. It can’t be WAI that JML recovers 150k protection up every turn even when his protection is drained down to nothing.
The weird thing there is Protection Up being recovered at all in the first place. Wat Shield Tech regenerates Protection, not Protection Up. Protection is based on Max Protection, which SEE drains. Protection Up is based on Max HP.
It's becoming increasingly clear that this prot drain gimmick being bugged was relevant to SEE doing much, and that JML being vulnerable to prot drain in the first place is part of what makes SEE "strong." But this says less about SEE being strong and more about JML having a vulnerability that SEE can exploit. In general, SEE is incredibly weak.
Maybe JML and SEE were made weak due to fears that the Jedi and Sith factions would be too strong, but SEE is just grossly underperforming as a GL. It also shows how easily overrated modest mastery gains can be compared to old boosts to stats like Offense % and CD %. Aside from SEE's horrific damage, there he's just not delivering as a GL--and some of that couldn't be known without seeing him in practice, and some of that was foreseeable based on his kit. Again, some caution was due as a result of Sith/Jedi tags, but SEE is far too often dead weight (sometimes close to dead weight and sometimes even worse).
Nobody's asking for SEE to smash everything that attacks him. But to struggle so hard on offense *as a result of SEE being so bad* is just incredibly disappointing. If people are tying themselves into knots trying to argue that putting R7 on sidious is "easier" then they don't disagree--they're just saying that they prefer SEE to be this bad.
The way he gains and regens protection up has been brought up multiple times, before and after the protection update.
It is not a bug, it is 100% working the way it should.
That being said they are keeping an eye on it for potential changes.
I don't konw whether or not,but SEE can harder beat REY since the update,SEE is weeker.
So how does SEE beat JML under bastila lead with wat on the team? I wasted a lot of crystals trying different things today to no avail. If there isn’t a way to win then I change my vote on SEE needing a buff. It can’t be WAI that JML recovers 150k protection up every turn even when his protection is drained down to nothing.
The weird thing there is Protection Up being recovered at all in the first place. Wat Shield Tech regenerates Protection, not Protection Up. Protection is based on Max Protection, which SEE drains. Protection Up is based on Max HP.
It's becoming increasingly clear that this prot drain gimmick being bugged was relevant to SEE doing much, and that JML being vulnerable to prot drain in the first place is part of what makes SEE "strong." But this says less about SEE being strong and more about JML having a vulnerability that SEE can exploit. In general, SEE is incredibly weak.
Maybe JML and SEE were made weak due to fears that the Jedi and Sith factions would be too strong, but SEE is just grossly underperforming as a GL. It also shows how easily overrated modest mastery gains can be compared to old boosts to stats like Offense % and CD %. Aside from SEE's horrific damage, there he's just not delivering as a GL--and some of that couldn't be known without seeing him in practice, and some of that was foreseeable based on his kit. Again, some caution was due as a result of Sith/Jedi tags, but SEE is far too often dead weight (sometimes close to dead weight and sometimes even worse).
Nobody's asking for SEE to smash everything that attacks him. But to struggle so hard on offense *as a result of SEE being so bad* is just incredibly disappointing. If people are tying themselves into knots trying to argue that putting R7 on sidious is "easier" then they don't disagree--they're just saying that they prefer SEE to be this bad.
The way he gains and regens protection up has been brought up multiple times, before and after the protection update.
It is not a bug, it is 100% working the way it should.
That being said they are keeping an eye on it for potential changes.
I don't konw whether or not,but SEE can harder beat REY since the update,SEE is weeker.
Sorry, I think we are crossing topics.
My comment was in reference to JML and WAT under Bastilla lead.
For SEE, there should have been no change due to the protection update. Could it be related to other toons gaining protection up, they would not have gained previously?
Sigh.. Just take away the galactic legend tag and unique and give them to Vader
I wish. One of the disappointing things about SEE is that you'll never be able to get a GL in the squad to help him since he has that GL tag, and since SEE requires relics on a ton of Empire and basically the entire Sith faction aside from Savage and Assassin (who was recommended for some reason), the release of another related GL like Vader anytime soon feels incredibly unlikely.
(And after maxing Sith relics, their new GL being at the very bottom of the meta under the SLKR army might be as good as it's gonna get. And if anything else comes down the road that isn't Jedi with JML's vulnerabilities, it'll probably also step on SEE like a bug)
Sigh.. Just take away the galactic legend tag and unique and give them to Vader
.
Is the combination of the kits and the leader ability. As I said its functioning as it should according to the way each of the is written, but it may be an unintended effect, which I believe is what's being looked at.
Replies
I unfortunately dismiss your opinion as much as you dismissed mine. All good....points were made and they stand. Marginally? Not really, but I understand that reply in the context of this thread. Sidious and Krennic are silly, agreed...but so are MANY of the req's of all the GL's, SEE just happens to have the most accessible. Nothing to dispute...and unfortunately your friends aren't the only ones who play the game.
I'm not sure what exactly kind of point you're making here in CG's defense @Kyno.
Maybe the problem with this is amplified by the face that the kit reveal came less than a week before release day. Not to mention stats and mastery were not revealed with the kit. Nor could testing with said kit to prove any suspicions be done until he was unlocked. Nor could you test with ultimate unless you were a kraken or waited weeks to farm.
On top of that, I think you hit exactly on the point. People do feel this way, overwhelmingly. That's why there's only so many of SEE in the world. They took your advice to heart. You are only proving that he is bad and needs work by trying to point out a simple fact. Bad characters don't get farmed unless they have a use or unless they were expected to be much better. He performs below expectations, and his only uses are overshadowed by cheaper teams or are extremely niche (such as beating JML and only in certain lineups).
Not all the points. I understand you can't exactly comb through a week and a half of posts, but a large amount of people were complaining about damage, which isn't visible in the kit, and about basically only having one move post-ult, which was not explained well in the kit reveal. Not to mention, again, that the kit reveal came like one day before releasing the character, so we hardly had the time to digest any of the information and theory-craft, let alone *guess* at stats and mastery like you seem to be implying we should've done.
SEE changes? Probably not, but you never know.
hope not,lol
We can cross our fingers
New raid and SEE is the key!!!
Sorry was dreaming out loud
It might make more sense if you dont come at this from a perspective that j am defending anyone, because I'm not.
The post I was replying to, stated several points that were very evident in his kit.
When did I say he was good?
When did I not agree with others that he needs a touch up?
On top of that I have been asking for over a week at this point for more ammunition towards the points being raised, just so I can drop them in a channel for review of SEE, as part of them keeping an eye on his as was stated.
So I'm not sure what point you were trying to make either.
How exactly are Rey and Kylo harder to get than SEE? Sure, they required 2 marquees, but that doesnt affect anyone farming them today.
Why do you think there are several times more JMLs in the game than SEE? You think my friends are the only ones in the game who had G13 Rebels and Jedi before JML was announced? Meanwhile try finding people who had G13 Empire and OG sith and I promise you the difference will be noticeable.
I actually do read, almost all of the posts on the Forum.
The quote you have there is in reference and response to one post.
I’m not the only one who saw the popup, right?
I did, its probably just to add the new characters and the next galactic fail... challenge
Blame @CG_Doja_Fett he's running late....again.
What do you need? I'll see if I can find it. Though we are not all lying here, I don't think we need to provide evidence as long as the devs have the ability to test SEE out in game and run through all the scenarios we are stating in this thread. They can see for themselves. And, on top of it, the devs would be getting paid to do it, we are not. 😘😂
Joking but serious.
buff me plz lol
Why not just give a title called "GL on the bench" to those who unlocked SEE since thats what he is now
It's becoming increasingly clear that this prot drain gimmick being bugged was relevant to SEE doing much, and that JML being vulnerable to prot drain in the first place is part of what makes SEE "strong." But this says less about SEE being strong and more about JML having a vulnerability that SEE can exploit. In general, SEE is incredibly weak.
Maybe JML and SEE were made weak due to fears that the Jedi and Sith factions would be too strong, but SEE is just grossly underperforming as a GL. It also shows how easily overrated modest mastery gains can be compared to old boosts to stats like Offense % and CD %. Aside from SEE's horrific damage, there he's just not delivering as a GL--and some of that couldn't be known without seeing him in practice, and some of that was foreseeable based on his kit. Again, some caution was due as a result of Sith/Jedi tags, but SEE is far too often dead weight (sometimes close to dead weight and sometimes even worse).
Nobody's asking for SEE to smash everything that attacks him. But to struggle so hard on offense *as a result of SEE being so bad* is just incredibly disappointing. If people are tying themselves into knots trying to argue that putting R7 on sidious is "easier" then they don't disagree--they're just saying that they prefer SEE to be this bad.
Oh hey! Look at that! JML hitting 3x as hard as SEE and the battle is over in 30sec or less!
Make SEE immune to cooldown increase and Ability block... he had so many wasted turns.
And Link should work on gl's... period. There's no reason why it doesn't.
But I'm okay with vulnerabilities, even if it allows JML to beat SEE. (It's also cool how even though jedi have some titans, JML is able to, you know, buff them and do things). Vulnerabilities are kinda cool sometimes, even if too much of it is too easily countered. What isn't cool is not failing to balance those vulnerabilities with appropriate strength--something SEE severely lacks. Like, say, having a GL start out weak but then after ultimate is strong enough to make up for that weakness!
If there was something in SLKR or SEE's kits that would make SLKR are pretty solid counter to SEE, that'd be kind of unfortunate (SLKR is older meta, very common in arena, and good everywhere) but that's not the case. What makes SLKR crush SEE so hard is SLKR's amazing kit both as a leader and a GL, while SEE is a very meh leader and doesn't feel like a GL at all, but is almost a total sack of weakness with a couple narrow anti-jedi gimmicks.
Wow this was a great feedback post, matches my thoughts after over a hundred arena battles using SEE with Ultimate.
There's a lot that I like about SEE, but it makes the game less interesting when one GL is unpopular due to lower performance and utility. My guess is we'll see an arena meta with 1/3 Rey, 1/3 SLKR, 1/3 JML and just a few SEE stragglers. It would be better if there were an even distribution of the four, with a few non-GL counter teams mixed in.
When I read the kit reveal, stacking mastery sounded great, but in reality it's consistently underwhelming. The Developer Insight said "the Ultimate changes Palpatine to a very strong attacker", but in reality his transformed damage output is mediocre compared to other GL's. It feels clunky the way he lacks synergy with Sith, his link gets stuck on a taunt or broken by GAS, and activating the Ultimate wastes a turn. Reading the kit reveal, the mass assist on So Be It Jedi sounded good, but in reality it's tanks assisting and they are typically disabled by the time you use it. SEE's strength versus JML is a plus, but the gameplay of this matchup is dull and provides limited options. It's not great to have a characters greatest strength result in the player always tapping the auto button.
My time using SEE has consistently given the impression he is better than a legendary but not on par with the benefits of a GL and that the fundamentals of his kit are good, but tuning is 80% complete.
Just a tank dealing more dmg than the "devastating attacker", no ult needed.
Theres is literally no reason at this point going for SEE instead of JML.
The way he gains and regens protection up has been brought up multiple times, before and after the protection update.
It is not a bug, it is 100% working the way it should.
That being said they are keeping an eye on it for potential changes.
I don't konw whether or not,but SEE can harder beat REY since the update,SEE is weeker.
Sorry, I think we are crossing topics.
My comment was in reference to JML and WAT under Bastilla lead.
For SEE, there should have been no change due to the protection update. Could it be related to other toons gaining protection up, they would not have gained previously?
I wish. One of the disappointing things about SEE is that you'll never be able to get a GL in the squad to help him since he has that GL tag, and since SEE requires relics on a ton of Empire and basically the entire Sith faction aside from Savage and Assassin (who was recommended for some reason), the release of another related GL like Vader anytime soon feels incredibly unlikely.
(And after maxing Sith relics, their new GL being at the very bottom of the meta under the SLKR army might be as good as it's gonna get. And if anything else comes down the road that isn't Jedi with JML's vulnerabilities, it'll probably also step on SEE like a bug)
Is the combination of the kits and the leader ability. As I said its functioning as it should according to the way each of the is written, but it may be an unintended effect, which I believe is what's being looked at.