Haha touchy crowd!!
Asked a simple question get no answer.
Guess I’ll make my own videos since people can’t say anything constructive.
Feels like the US politics are trickling into these forums.
We got the left and rights.
All the talk of how we needed to field test to see what SEE was able to do and yet I ask a question about a different comp and that’s hill people defend lol
I’ve faced that jml team with my SEE and triumvirate and never had that happen. Hence my curiosity.
Sorry I’m not the jedi game master like you all are apparently. I like to see things play out. These kits are so complex these days it’s hard to follow every move.
I wasn’t attacking you or being hostile at all. I was solely asking your thoughts since it seemed like you had some. I was genuinely curious if you had a strategy in mind.
How so? Or cant you give an argument for that either?
...not going to waste my time "arguing" with someone who assumes a conclusion because they didn't take the time to gather the data/info.
To be clear, I wouldn't mind seeing one of my GL's get polished up and tweaked, however I don't necessarily support a buff to the easiest obtainable GL of the 4. The multiple SEE's in my arena shard do just fine in the top 10 every day, and they do not run with any of the teams used as examples throughout this thread.
I think everyone would genuinely like to hear what teams they are using. It would be extremely helpful to this whole conversation.
CG says they did testing and if they did testing then they obviously would’ve tested JML + Wat vs SEE. That’s one of the first few comps to test for SEE vs JML.
Nothing in life is a guarantee. We don't know what testing they did. Nobody is perfect, they certainly could have missed something.
I agree. It’s possible. Just seems HIGHLY unlikely.
How so? Or cant you give an argument for that either?
...not going to waste my time "arguing" with someone who assumes a conclusion because they didn't take the time to gather the data/info.
To be clear, I wouldn't mind seeing one of my GL's get polished up and tweaked, however I don't necessarily support a buff to the easiest obtainable GL of the 4. The multiple SEE's in my arena shard do just fine in the top 10 every day, and they do not run with any of the teams used as examples throughout this thread.
I too would like to hear what teams others are using successfully. I run See, Traya, SET, GAT and either Vader or DN, vader is more up front utiity but DN has longevity. I can beat JML, Rey and Kylo some times as long as it isn't double tank with that team.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
I also think that it is silly for people to act like SEE isn’t WAI.
CG says they did testing and if they did testing then they obviously would’ve tested JML + Wat vs SEE. That’s one of the first few comps to test for SEE vs JML. Therefore they knew about this interaction and released it, therefore it is intentional.
By the same token, it seems silly to act like they are happy with exactly where he is.
They always state that they get more information when any toon is "in the wild", then they could during internal testing (including beta program).
They also stated they are keeping an eye on things, not that he is WAI, so again seems silly to think he is 100% WAI.
Agreed. I maybe should’ve been a little more precise I was solely talking about the Wat JML interaction being WAI.
Got it.
I still think some healthy scepticism and this still apply, in any case:
They always state that they get more information when any toon is "in the wild", then they could during internal testing (including beta program).
Which is why I try to get at least some acknowledgement out there one way or the other in on many topics.
How so? Or cant you give an argument for that either?
To be clear, I wouldn't mind seeing one of my GL's get polished up and tweaked, however I don't necessarily support a buff to the easiest obtainable GL of the 4.
What makes him more easily obtainable than Kylo or Rey? Just genuinely curious.
Personally, SEE looks harder to obtain than Kylo.
Rey maybe slightly harder to obtain than SEE because it requires a hero journey character (RJT) but most people already have her, except for new players.
JML is much harder to obtain than all of the GLs, I'll give you that.
How so? Or cant you give an argument for that either?
To be clear, I wouldn't mind seeing one of my GL's get polished up and tweaked, however I don't necessarily support a buff to the easiest obtainable GL of the 4.
What makes him more easily obtainable than Kylo or Rey? Just genuinely curious.
Personally, SEE looks harder to obtain than Kylo.
Rey maybe slightly harder to obtain than SEE because it requires a hero journey character (RJT) but most people already have her, except for new players.
JML is much harder to obtain than all of the GLs, I'll give you that.
It really depends when started and how you play.
For just about any OG player, the 2 new ones are going to be by far the easiest, when looked at when they were released.
As you move out from day one those numbers would shift around alot, but surprisingly in the mid range the 2 capital ships for Rey or Kylo could be slower/harder to farm than most other things due to their event.
But no one is going to be able to make any statement about farming being one way or the other as a blanket statement that will be true for everyone.
Plus those two capital ships require fairly difficult 7 star ships to get: Raddus needs 2 hard node only ships, a fleet node ship, a 16 energy cantina node, and one rare Fleet Store ship; Finalizer needs 3 hard node only ships and two rare Fleet Store ships.
Compare that to SEE, who only needs a single hard node ship to 6 star. (JML’s a bit more thanks to JKL needing the Falcon, but I’d guess the Falcon + Y-Wing is still easier than the Raddus reqs.)
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
That's a fair point, I understand.
Yeah, let's say even if SEE is the 'easiest' GL to get, he is still extremely hard to get period, compared to any non-GL hero in the game. He is still a galactic legend, after all. 15 shard farms. 15 relics. Not easy.
There are non-GL heros that are easier to get and have more utility in the game.
And let's say that even if you live in a reality where you think just because a GL like SEE is slightly easier to get than the other GLs, and think that he should be weaker because of that.... then please don't forget that the SEE farm is *already* weaker because of the trash heros you have to farm and relic to get him. Sidious. Tarkin. Royal Guard. Krennic. All utter useless garbage. Maul is *decent* but still fairly useless today. The rest are good and useful. But the garbage farms are 33% of the requirements!
New question for those of you struggling to use SEE to beat JML/Rey. Have you found a mod set that helps make SEE usable yet? Maybe we are all just modding him wrong?
I checked out the modding guide at gaming fans https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/mods/
But I guess not surprisingly, the only GL there (and only hero for that matter) they have no clue how to mod is SEE.
Maybe there's no modding guide for SEE because they haven't found a set yet that makes him usable, idk.
Plus those two capital ships require fairly difficult 7 star ships to get: Raddus needs 2 hard node only ships, a fleet node ship, a 16 energy cantina node, and one rare Fleet Store ship; Finalizer needs 3 hard node only ships and two rare Fleet Store ships.
Compare that to SEE, who only needs a single hard node ship to 6 star. (JML’s a bit more thanks to JKL needing the Falcon, but I’d guess the Falcon + Y-Wing is still easier than the Raddus reqs.)
But you also do have to consider that SEE requires 14 relics, where as Rey and Kylo only require 12. I think getting 2 extra heros to G13 and then farming relic mats makes up for the extra ship farming difficulty.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Seriously.... Enough is enough. Now rey is soloing SEE by herself... I wouldn't be suprised if she could 1v5...
(yes this is 3v3 but still... this is beyond dumb)
3v3 is a bit different but not a good look either that Rey was down to like 1/2 health before she even started on a full health/prot SEE before decimating him.
It comes down to a poorly thought out kit for SEE I think. The whole "linking" concept is cool on paper, but easily conquered by anyone who is just smart enough to just Solo SEE. Net effect for the attacker by going solo, is easier fight, AND more banners. Not cool. I'm not sure the devs fully thought this out enough before going with this kit.
Didn't even look like SEE built his ult up at all either. Again, another huge flaw in his kit.
Maybe the ultimate charging and link is what needs to be fixed. Add text to the ability to make it instant or something when there is only 1 enemy team member left.
I wonder what other heros can solo SEE in 3v3/1v1. I bet an extremely well modded Nihilus can solo SEE.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
Nobody knows. A lot of us have our own idea of what a new GL's power should be, and that SEE substantially fails to meet that level. So the question is what CG thinks makes SEE a worthy new GL, which is why I keep asking for some indication as to what his value is supposed to be beyond simply having the GL ability and an ultimate.
At the very least it seems clear that teammate support is taken into account--in other words, since Jedi and Sith are considered to be strong factions, Jedi/Sith GLs can be weaker to compensate for that and still be "equal strength." And if SEE has a gimmick that helps him beat JML, he can be weak everywhere else and still be "equal strength." There was good reason for caution in these areas, but it really doesn't look like SEE hits the mark even taking these things into account, and in a meta that is largely filled by the 2 older GLs, being able to battle JML better isn't that great.
SEE's power is too weak to make up for his prot drain niche vs JML
SEE's damage vs Jedi isn't that fantastic, and certainly doesn't make up for his incredibly low damage in general
SEE's post-ultimate damage doesn't make up for the challenges in getting him to ultimate (enemy turns, weak team, various Linked issues), and the things he loses in ultimate form (he's basically just a basic attack machine)
SEE's mastery isn't that great--Rey is an attacker but kind of a jack-of-all-trades with invulnerability and healing and big damage, but SLKR a closer comparison as primarily an attacker and also get CD from mastery (he also does AOE dispel, AOE cleanse, and permastun, and gets invulnerability, but anyways...). SEE's damage from mastery growth can't hit that level because his mastery type is inferior and his mastery growth is inferior.
SEE's squad, even though they're Sith, still doesn't match enemy GL squad power. Permanent crit immunity and stopping enemy TM gain and bonus CD under SLKR, and things like that, even make SLKR a better leader for Sith like Malak and Empire like Thrawn in general than SEE is. So the Sith tag isn't doing as much for SEE and his squad as some might assume.
SEE isn't strong enough on offense against Rey and SLKR to compensate for how weak he is on defense. If SLKR is supposed to be able to beat SEE based on some mechanic rather than just SEE being super weak, then sure, why not. But for it to be impossible for SEE himself, on offense, to beat SLKR is an example of SEE being far too weak for how SEE gets smashed on defense and tossed to the bottom of the GL pile with ease by the most common GL.
And this is just talking about PVP--SEE is plainly far weaker than the other GLs elsewhere.
So the question is, how is CG determining "power level"? Obviously they're not going to come out with a rubric and rules that they have to strictly follow, but without some indication as to what SEE's value is--what his strength is that makes up for these glaring weaknesses--it's difficult to imagine how SEE is supposed to be equal power level.
People still seem to be popping in here claiming that they want SEE to remain weak, or that if JML is a little too weak (maybe he is) then SEE should be even weaker, but not that he's actually equal in power.
btw, fwiw, buffed JML can smack SEE+ Triumvirate too (idk why he wouldn't, since SEE doesn't really help triumvirate). But some people were asking about it, so anyway
btw, fwiw, buffed JML can smack SEE+ Triumvirate too (idk why he wouldn't, since SEE doesn't really help triumvirate). But some people were asking about it, so anyway
So, the only GL that SEE could potentially give a a hard time to on defense now trivializes the encounter making him even worse than before. Seriously, I’m starting to think SEE needs more than I originally thought. Come on CG faith is fading here.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
That is probably why they say similar and not the same.
They want to have some wiggle room, this allows them to release a GL that cannot solo or do that good in the Sith raid, for example.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
That is probably why they say similar and not the same.
They want to have some wiggle room, this allows them to release a GL that cannot solo or do that good in the Sith raid, for example.
Due to position of SEE in this room, now we have 4206 JML and 1917 SEE only, people don't find SEE's position so attractive as JML for example.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
That is probably why they say similar and not the same.
They want to have some wiggle room, this allows them to release a GL that cannot solo or do that good in the Sith raid, for example.
Due to position of SEE in this room, now we have 4206 JML and 1917 SEE only, people don't find SEE's position so attractive as JML for example.
I'm not saying they should be. Just trying to manage expectations to some degree.
Things like team support (and other kit related items), and other very specific things, may not really be changed or be a specific focus of "similar power".
Only time will tell, and SEE # are growing, which is never a bad thing when looking for examples one way or the other.
What I think is being missed here is that the difficulty of the requirements does not matter when the definitive expectation that was set was GL’s will be roughly the same power level and clearly SEE falls short of that in many areas. Damage, utility, difficulty to beat on defense, ability to give high banner wins on offense, the number of much less difficult to build teams being able to beat him, damage, support of his teammates, control of the battle field, damage, and damage.
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
That is probably why they say similar and not the same.
They want to have some wiggle room, this allows them to release a GL that cannot solo or do that good in the Sith raid, for example.
Due to position of SEE in this room, now we have 4206 JML and 1917 SEE only, people don't find SEE's position so attractive as JML for example.
I'm not saying they should be. Just trying to manage expectations to some degree.
Things like team support (and other kit related items), and other very specific things, may not really be changed or be a specific focus of "similar power".
Only time will tell, and SEE # are growing, which is never a bad thing when looking for examples one way or the other.
Wow it went up 11!!! Lol
Looking at the other leader it’s not clear if they have rey or Luke on those teams but you know they do. The Drevan and vaders definitely don’t have SEE. So SEE still stands alone in his leader and stil falls waaaaaay short of all the other GLs
Replies
I wasn’t attacking you or being hostile at all. I was solely asking your thoughts since it seemed like you had some. I was genuinely curious if you had a strategy in mind.
I think everyone would genuinely like to hear what teams they are using. It would be extremely helpful to this whole conversation.
I agree. It’s possible. Just seems HIGHLY unlikely.
I too would like to hear what teams others are using successfully. I run See, Traya, SET, GAT and either Vader or DN, vader is more up front utiity but DN has longevity. I can beat JML, Rey and Kylo some times as long as it isn't double tank with that team.
Got it.
I still think some healthy scepticism and this still apply, in any case:
Which is why I try to get at least some acknowledgement out there one way or the other in on many topics.
You’re accusing us of intentionally rigging it against SEE?
Let’s please keep this away from too much politics, though.
What makes him more easily obtainable than Kylo or Rey? Just genuinely curious.
Personally, SEE looks harder to obtain than Kylo.
Rey maybe slightly harder to obtain than SEE because it requires a hero journey character (RJT) but most people already have her, except for new players.
JML is much harder to obtain than all of the GLs, I'll give you that.
It really depends when started and how you play.
For just about any OG player, the 2 new ones are going to be by far the easiest, when looked at when they were released.
As you move out from day one those numbers would shift around alot, but surprisingly in the mid range the 2 capital ships for Rey or Kylo could be slower/harder to farm than most other things due to their event.
But no one is going to be able to make any statement about farming being one way or the other as a blanket statement that will be true for everyone.
Compare that to SEE, who only needs a single hard node ship to 6 star. (JML’s a bit more thanks to JKL needing the Falcon, but I’d guess the Falcon + Y-Wing is still easier than the Raddus reqs.)
That's a fair point, I understand.
Yeah, let's say even if SEE is the 'easiest' GL to get, he is still extremely hard to get period, compared to any non-GL hero in the game. He is still a galactic legend, after all. 15 shard farms. 15 relics. Not easy.
There are non-GL heros that are easier to get and have more utility in the game.
And let's say that even if you live in a reality where you think just because a GL like SEE is slightly easier to get than the other GLs, and think that he should be weaker because of that.... then please don't forget that the SEE farm is *already* weaker because of the trash heros you have to farm and relic to get him. Sidious. Tarkin. Royal Guard. Krennic. All utter useless garbage. Maul is *decent* but still fairly useless today. The rest are good and useful. But the garbage farms are 33% of the requirements!
I checked out the modding guide at gaming fans
https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/mods/
But I guess not surprisingly, the only GL there (and only hero for that matter) they have no clue how to mod is SEE.
Maybe there's no modding guide for SEE because they haven't found a set yet that makes him usable, idk.
But you also do have to consider that SEE requires 14 relics, where as Rey and Kylo only require 12. I think getting 2 extra heros to G13 and then farming relic mats makes up for the extra ship farming difficulty.
Seriously.... Enough is enough. Now rey is soloing SEE by herself... I wouldn't be suprised if she could 1v5...
(yes this is 3v3 but still... this is beyond dumb)
This is exactly right. The selling point has always been “galactic legends are on the same basic power level”
3v3 is a bit different but not a good look either that Rey was down to like 1/2 health before she even started on a full health/prot SEE before decimating him.
It comes down to a poorly thought out kit for SEE I think. The whole "linking" concept is cool on paper, but easily conquered by anyone who is just smart enough to just Solo SEE. Net effect for the attacker by going solo, is easier fight, AND more banners. Not cool. I'm not sure the devs fully thought this out enough before going with this kit.
Didn't even look like SEE built his ult up at all either. Again, another huge flaw in his kit.
Maybe the ultimate charging and link is what needs to be fixed. Add text to the ability to make it instant or something when there is only 1 enemy team member left.
I wonder what other heros can solo SEE in 3v3/1v1. I bet an extremely well modded Nihilus can solo SEE.
Very true, but we should also keep in mind that same power level is not going to be measured by banners, support of teammates, or control. At least not directly.
I think I understand what you’re saying here, but it would be nice to know what set of standards it IS measured by.
At the very least it seems clear that teammate support is taken into account--in other words, since Jedi and Sith are considered to be strong factions, Jedi/Sith GLs can be weaker to compensate for that and still be "equal strength." And if SEE has a gimmick that helps him beat JML, he can be weak everywhere else and still be "equal strength." There was good reason for caution in these areas, but it really doesn't look like SEE hits the mark even taking these things into account, and in a meta that is largely filled by the 2 older GLs, being able to battle JML better isn't that great.
So the question is, how is CG determining "power level"? Obviously they're not going to come out with a rubric and rules that they have to strictly follow, but without some indication as to what SEE's value is--what his strength is that makes up for these glaring weaknesses--it's difficult to imagine how SEE is supposed to be equal power level.
People still seem to be popping in here claiming that they want SEE to remain weak, or that if JML is a little too weak (maybe he is) then SEE should be even weaker, but not that he's actually equal in power.
So, the only GL that SEE could potentially give a a hard time to on defense now trivializes the encounter making him even worse than before. Seriously, I’m starting to think SEE needs more than I originally thought. Come on CG faith is fading here.
That is probably why they say similar and not the same.
They want to have some wiggle room, this allows them to release a GL that cannot solo or do that good in the Sith raid, for example.
Due to position of SEE in this room, now we have 4206 JML and 1917 SEE only, people don't find SEE's position so attractive as JML for example.
Come on CG... buff him already...
I'm not saying they should be. Just trying to manage expectations to some degree.
Things like team support (and other kit related items), and other very specific things, may not really be changed or be a specific focus of "similar power".
Only time will tell, and SEE # are growing, which is never a bad thing when looking for examples one way or the other.
Wow it went up 11!!! Lol
Looking at the other leader it’s not clear if they have rey or Luke on those teams but you know they do. The Drevan and vaders definitely don’t have SEE. So SEE still stands alone in his leader and stil falls waaaaaay short of all the other GLs