They pump out new content with high gearing requirements to prolong the life of the game. If they made gear more readily available by easing the gear crunch, it would contradict these efforts.
I wish they would alleviate the gear crunch, but it seems to be strategically opposed to their recent business decisions.
I dont think anyone disagrees with this, but the idea that the gear pinch points should shift as you develop your roster further and further has merit and should be explored.
7-8m GP rosters should not be hitting gear crunch at g8 or g9, IMHO. Hitting them around r1-3 and up sounds more reasonable. (These numbers are completely made up and dont matter in the principle of this argument.)
That is how they maintain the crunch without making it boring and stale, IMHO.
This is spot on, but I wonder if part of the problem is that coupling relic tiers to gear (via the scavenger) made it harder to fix the crunch at lower levels without reducing the relic crunch some as well. I feel like making balance changes to the gear economy would have been easier if gear wasn't used for relic tiers.
Separately, what about the Cantina crunch. So many toons to farm there but I feel like I'm just going to be farming signal data forever.
i don't use stun guns for scavenger. Or stun cuffs. or eyeballs.......relic tiers don't have anything to do with those at all. And as for cantina, isn't that supposed to be part of the 'resource management' part? In LS/DS/Fleet you choose btwn gear or toon shards, in cantina you choose between relic mats or toon shards.
They pump out new content with high gearing requirements to prolong the life of the game. If they made gear more readily available by easing the gear crunch, it would contradict these efforts.
I wish they would alleviate the gear crunch, but it seems to be strategically opposed to their recent business decisions.
I dont think anyone disagrees with this, but the idea that the gear pinch points should shift as you develop your roster further and further has merit and should be explored.
7-8m GP rosters should not be hitting gear crunch at g8 or g9, IMHO. Hitting them around r1-3 and up sounds more reasonable. (These numbers are completely made up and dont matter in the principle of this argument.)
That is how they maintain the crunch without making it boring and stale, IMHO.
This is spot on, but I wonder if part of the problem is that coupling relic tiers to gear (via the scavenger) made it harder to fix the crunch at lower levels without reducing the relic crunch some as well. I feel like making balance changes to the gear economy would have been easier if gear wasn't used for relic tiers.
Separately, what about the Cantina crunch. So many toons to farm there but I feel like I'm just going to be farming signal data forever.
I'm sure that plays into it, but most early/mid pinch point gear is in the lower end relic materials, so even if they flooded it today, we are only hitting r3.
Hitting r3 makes a character useful to play with but not as a requirement (as we are seeing), so that seems like a fair point to hit, and work from.
Yes signal data is the other pinch, and again that seems a reasonable point to have a pinch as players develop. And early/mid game players will have to choose between those farms and signal data, which is always going to be a problem.
They pump out new content with high gearing requirements to prolong the life of the game. If they made gear more readily available by easing the gear crunch, it would contradict these efforts.
I wish they would alleviate the gear crunch, but it seems to be strategically opposed to their recent business decisions.
I dont think anyone disagrees with this, but the idea that the gear pinch points should shift as you develop your roster further and further has merit and should be explored.
7-8m GP rosters should not be hitting gear crunch at g8 or g9, IMHO. Hitting them around r1-3 and up sounds more reasonable. (These numbers are completely made up and dont matter in the principle of this argument.)
That is how they maintain the crunch without making it boring and stale, IMHO.
Bingo. Glad to see you finally speaking what we’ve all been trying to say. Especially with these LV reqs, every single one is R5 minimum, multiple R8/R7 reqs and it’s not looking to get better any time soon. That’s not ok.
The gap in requirements compared to income is growing further and faster and we haven’t seen any meaningful relief to the gear crunch. It’s past due. There’s no reason that once players are at 7/8 million GP, they still struggle to get past G8, or need to hoard and farm for months just for one character.
They pump out new content with high gearing requirements to prolong the life of the game. If they made gear more readily available by easing the gear crunch, it would contradict these efforts.
I wish they would alleviate the gear crunch, but it seems to be strategically opposed to their recent business decisions.
I dont think anyone disagrees with this, but the idea that the gear pinch points should shift as you develop your roster further and further has merit and should be explored.
7-8m GP rosters should not be hitting gear crunch at g8 or g9, IMHO. Hitting them around r1-3 and up sounds more reasonable. (These numbers are completely made up and dont matter in the principle of this argument.)
That is how they maintain the crunch without making it boring and stale, IMHO.
Bingo. Glad to see you finally speaking what we’ve all been trying to say. Especially with these LV reqs, every single one is R5 minimum, multiple R8/R7 reqs and it’s not looking to get better any time soon. That’s not ok.
The gap in requirements compared to income is growing further and faster and we haven’t seen any meaningful relief to the gear crunch. It’s past due. There’s no reason that once players are at 7/8 million GP, they still struggle to get past G8, or need to hoard and farm for months just for one character.
We have agreed on this for a while, in this thread,
but thank you for finally recognizing that. I just dont believe the suggestions you have to fix it would fit what they have said the points they are looking to hold onto.
Either way, yes we both agree they should do more to address the gear crunch. (I have said this before.) 🙃
Separately, what about the Cantina crunch. So many toons to farm there but I feel like I'm just going to be farming signal data forever.
I'm curious.
How long have you been playing?
I started April-19 and the characters in Cantina are either Done for me or Useless for me.
So I'm just wondering what it is your farming still while also being advanced enough to need LOTS of Relic Mats?
Separately, what about the Cantina crunch. So many toons to farm there but I feel like I'm just going to be farming signal data forever.
I'm curious.
How long have you been playing?
I started April-19 and the characters in Cantina are either Done for me or Useless for me.
So I'm just wondering what it is your farming still while also being advanced enough to need LOTS of Relic Mats?
I started in early 2018 I think, but I quit for about a year starting right around the time relics dropped (late 2019 or so I think?) so my roster and resources are in a slightly weird place relative to everyone else, admittedly. The main difference is probably that I value toons that you're considering useless though, unless you've been mega-whaling on Cantina farming the last 4 months.
I'm bored & waiting on approval for something at work........
So here goes...... how could they fix our stores to allow us to actually BUY the items we want to gear people up.
Guild Token Store - See Highlighted area that IMO don't need to be in the rotation.
Not bad, only 1 is useless out of 5. But even that one doesn't need to be in the rotation.
2 pieces don't need to be here at all & a 3rd (M5 Furnace) was only an issue at G8/9 when trying to level up multiple teams right around Level 70-85 range & now sit there waiting for the day you have to go back & work a different team.
2 pieces of gear that are easily farmed from nodes including better gear.
Better places to farm 3 of these v/s spending Guild Tokens
Mods Store - Do people even buy the Type-E mods w/ no stats on them?
Of this page the Gold Cross is the only one I'd even look at for possible Primary/Secondary combo of stats.
Maybe its just me but unless its a Gold "Left Side" or Purple "Right Side" mod, I don't even look at them.
GET Store: Arguably the most valuable currency in the game, I have no idea why there is ANYTHING in this store that isn't a hugely in demand item.
Personally I only buy the 6 "Epic" Ships/Characters from here & Stun Guns.
3 items out of 6 on this page are useless & need to be removed to make room for more frequent chances at the "Good" Gear.
I recently just crafted some MK3s so don't let that 91 fool you, this entire page is useless.
4 of 6 should be farmed in other locations. The last 2 should do but at least those 2 are slow enough that maybe someone could be desperate to speed up the process.
It would be bad to use GET but at least its not criminal like using it for the highlighted 4.
Now onto the Shard Shop.
Mixed bag of 2 useless, 3 questionable, and only 1 in demand item.
And a full row of items you don't want to buy to finish off the store.
Remove them from the Rotation, Replace them more shots at better items.
The only time I'm out of Shard Currency is when I start making LOTS of purchases of the 720 items for a particularly in demand G12 piece. If I'm not buying lots of 720's the Shard Shop just keeps building up.
And finally the newest store in game, The Conquest Store.
Created long after we have been pointing out the need to remove bad items from stores & only rotate good ones.
And we still get a 50/50 ratio today of bad items.
Its mind boggling that Mk4 Stunguns are in ANY store ever.
Its not like this would even be giving us gear free like the many updated challenge suggestions.
No, this would just let us SPEND FASTER, what a crazy concept that is right?
I'm bored & waiting on approval for something at work........
So here goes...... how could they fix our stores to allow us to actually BUY the items we want to gear people up.
Guild Token Store - See Highlighted area that IMO don't need to be in the rotation.
Not bad, only 1 is useless out of 5. But even that one doesn't need to be in the rotation.
2 pieces don't need to be here at all & a 3rd (M5 Furnace) was only an issue at G8/9 when trying to level up multiple teams right around Level 70-85 range & now sit there waiting for the day you have to go back & work a different team.
2 pieces of gear that are easily farmed from nodes including better gear.
Better places to farm 3 of these v/s spending Guild Tokens
Mods Store - Do people even buy the Type-E mods w/ no stats on them?
Of this page the Gold Cross is the only one I'd even look at for possible Primary/Secondary combo of stats.
Maybe its just me but unless its a Gold "Left Side" or Purple "Right Side" mod, I don't even look at them.
GET Store: Arguably the most valuable currency in the game, I have no idea why there is ANYTHING in this store that isn't a hugely in demand item.
Personally I only buy the 6 "Epic" Ships/Characters from here & Stun Guns.
3 items out of 6 on this page are useless & need to be removed to make room for more frequent chances at the "Good" Gear.
I recently just crafted some MK3s so don't let that 91 fool you, this entire page is useless.
4 of 6 should be farmed in other locations. The last 2 should do but at least those 2 are slow enough that maybe someone could be desperate to speed up the process.
It would be bad to use GET but at least its not criminal like using it for the highlighted 4.
Now onto the Shard Shop.
Mixed bag of 2 useless, 3 questionable, and only 1 in demand item.
And a full row of items you don't want to buy to finish off the store.
Remove them from the Rotation, Replace them more shots at better items.
The only time I'm out of Shard Currency is when I start making LOTS of purchases of the 720 items for a particularly in demand G12 piece. If I'm not buying lots of 720's the Shard Shop just keeps building up.
And finally the newest store in game, The Conquest Store.
Created long after we have been pointing out the need to remove bad items from stores & only rotate good ones.
And we still get a 50/50 ratio today of bad items.
Its mind boggling that Mk4 Stunguns are in ANY store ever.
Its not like this would even be giving us gear free like the many updated challenge suggestions.
No, this would just let us SPEND FASTER, what a crazy concept that is right?
I agree with you but those who are on CG's side with just say as this is a "collection" game that requires you pick and choose which resources you collected to be upgraded and used, buyer/player be aware.. This game is full of the wrong gear/materials to collect that will not be a good ROI..
Didn't give it my full attention, but strongly disagree on the MKIII Detonators. They don't have a farming location, only the salvage does. You need a lot of the salvage wherever the MKIII's are used. 200 GT for five is a bargain, and I'll buy them often. Same with the MKV BlasTech Weapon Mod, much better value and less hassle paying 100 GT for five crafted ones.
I'm bored & waiting on approval for something at work........
So here goes...... how could they fix our stores to allow us to actually BUY the items we want to gear people up.
Guild Token Store - See Highlighted area that IMO don't need to be in the rotation.
Not bad, only 1 is useless out of 5. But even that one doesn't need to be in the rotation.
2 pieces don't need to be here at all & a 3rd (M5 Furnace) was only an issue at G8/9 when trying to level up multiple teams right around Level 70-85 range & now sit there waiting for the day you have to go back & work a different team.
2 pieces of gear that are easily farmed from nodes including better gear.
Better places to farm 3 of these v/s spending Guild Tokens
Mods Store - Do people even buy the Type-E mods w/ no stats on them?
Of this page the Gold Cross is the only one I'd even look at for possible Primary/Secondary combo of stats.
Maybe its just me but unless its a Gold "Left Side" or Purple "Right Side" mod, I don't even look at them.
GET Store: Arguably the most valuable currency in the game, I have no idea why there is ANYTHING in this store that isn't a hugely in demand item.
Personally I only buy the 6 "Epic" Ships/Characters from here & Stun Guns.
3 items out of 6 on this page are useless & need to be removed to make room for more frequent chances at the "Good" Gear.
I recently just crafted some MK3s so don't let that 91 fool you, this entire page is useless.
4 of 6 should be farmed in other locations. The last 2 should do but at least those 2 are slow enough that maybe someone could be desperate to speed up the process.
It would be bad to use GET but at least its not criminal like using it for the highlighted 4.
Now onto the Shard Shop.
Mixed bag of 2 useless, 3 questionable, and only 1 in demand item.
And a full row of items you don't want to buy to finish off the store.
Remove them from the Rotation, Replace them more shots at better items.
The only time I'm out of Shard Currency is when I start making LOTS of purchases of the 720 items for a particularly in demand G12 piece. If I'm not buying lots of 720's the Shard Shop just keeps building up.
And finally the newest store in game, The Conquest Store.
Created long after we have been pointing out the need to remove bad items from stores & only rotate good ones.
And we still get a 50/50 ratio today of bad items.
Its mind boggling that Mk4 Stunguns are in ANY store ever.
Its not like this would even be giving us gear free like the many updated challenge suggestions.
No, this would just let us SPEND FASTER, what a crazy concept that is right?
I don't think removing the gear you suggest would help much if any. I already use these stores exclusively for gear and ignore these items. I also frequently deplete these currencies and wait for more even with ignoring useless gear.
All removing the useless gear will do is change the waiting for gear you need to show up to waiting for more currency. Not much of a change.
The development time would be better spent on actually easing the pre g12 gear crunch.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
If they don’t have a fix in place for the gear economy, they don’t know how to fix it. They don’t need to directly say it. If they knew how, they would do it instead of “chipping away at it”. If they do know, but aren’t implementing the change because they want the “chipping away” aspect for profits, then that disingenuous.
Kyno I’ve been advocating for gear economy changes for a LONG time. Ive played plenty of other games that have had similar resource acquisition issues and power creep and those that did what CG has done earlier lost mine and many others interest to uninstalling and quitting.
For everything that MSF has done wrong lately, the one thing they do is know how to progress the gear system in a fair and sustainable manner so that when you reach the later stages of the game and the new tip of the spear is G16, getting to G12 is far easier than just last year but still requires proper resource management and doesn’t allow you to just upgrade everyone to g12 by the end of the week. Months later and I’m still building my overall roster towards that goal while also trying to max out my meta teams. That’s resource management and a good proper balance.
CG has proven incapable or unwilling to do so. There’s no way that since well over a year ago, Cyanide said they wanted to ease the gear crunch, but have still yet to do anything meaningful if at all to make the gear grind better. In all that time all they’ve done is add more and more layers of progression and resource/gear drain far outpacing any “natural solution” to the gear economy. Now they’re going to go further with R9 and have moved the goal posts yet again not just with that, but making all the shiny new toys need several R5 toons (at minimum). All while simultaneously nerfing non GL counters to GL’s into oblivion. Sorry but they’re not doing right by their player base lately.
Today I made a calculation about LV+executor needs. My indicator says even with so called cheap zinbiddle card+impulse detector sales, these and other relic mat.s are now in higher demand in my case.
Gear poor folks won't be seeing this since they won't get to relicing being stuck on the gear side.
Didn't give it my full attention, but strongly disagree on the MKIII Detonators. They don't have a farming location, only the salvage does. You need a lot of the salvage wherever the MKIII's are used. 200 GT for five is a bargain, and I'll buy them often. Same with the MKV BlasTech Weapon Mod, much better value and less hassle paying 100 GT for five crafted ones.
Also, slice some mods.
1. There was a time when M3 Detonators were hard to come by, but, that was when I was new to 85 & leveling far too many toons at one time & getting stuck at mid-purple gear levels.
At this point I have like 1000 salvage & no toon I'm working needs them.
To me, similar to Mk6 Hypos, these are only an issue if your pushing too many toons too fast.
I haven't had to farm them in 6 months to a year now.
2. The Mk5 Blastechs have about a 50% drop rate so once a month or so when I run out I'll drop a couple of 50 crystal refreshes directly into simming a 6 Energy Node for just them (or 8/10 shared w/ another piece?).
I never need to buy them anymore.
That said, your right, those are both solid buys that I did back when I had a huge need for both those items.
That doesn't mean most of the ones I highlighted have any value.
3. LOL, I slice LOTS of mods, I just don't bother buying a mod & leveling it when the starting stats are questionable. Like say, an unknown grey. I look stuff that at least has 2-3 stats I want before I purchase it.
I get enough greys when farming mods directly from challenges.
The development time would be better spent on actually easing the pre g12 gear crunch.
Sure, I can agree with that.
And yet after a year we don't have new challenge levels w/ in demand gear.
They clearly don't WANT to give us more gear.
So my point was instead give us access to what we need faster if not more of it.
The main difference is probably that I value toons that you're considering useless though, unless you've been mega-whaling on Cantina farming the last 4 months.
I don't mega-whale on anything, lol.
I try to refresh cantina several times a week on the cheap-100 refreshes but can't afford all 21.
If Fleet income is going well I can get 15-18 maybe.
Otherwise its more like 3-8x for the week.
But I also don't farm every character just to collect them.
To me the game is already too large so unless it is someone I need for a legendary event then I skip them.
Also if they come to me free from Bronziums or Events then I also skip them & accept that its a slow farm.
Pretty much my roster is every team needed for one of the Legendary/Journey events or a TB mission.
Outside of those & SLKR, I'm not sure I've farmed anyone else really.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
If they don’t have a fix in place for the gear economy, they don’t know how to fix it. They don’t need to directly say it. If they knew how, they would do it instead of “chipping away at it”. If they do know, but aren’t implementing the change because they want the “chipping away” aspect for profits, then that disingenuous.
Kyno I’ve been advocating for gear economy changes for a LONG time. Ive played plenty of other games that have had similar resource acquisition issues and power creep and those that did what CG has done earlier lost mine and many others interest to uninstalling and quitting.
For everything that MSF has done wrong lately, the one thing they do is know how to progress the gear system in a fair and sustainable manner so that when you reach the later stages of the game and the new tip of the spear is G16, getting to G12 is far easier than just last year but still requires proper resource management and doesn’t allow you to just upgrade everyone to g12 by the end of the week. Months later and I’m still building my overall roster towards that goal while also trying to max out my meta teams. That’s resource management and a good proper balance.
CG has proven incapable or unwilling to do so. There’s no way that since well over a year ago, Cyanide said they wanted to ease the gear crunch, but have still yet to do anything meaningful if at all to make the gear grind better. In all that time all they’ve done is add more and more layers of progression and resource/gear drain far outpacing any “natural solution” to the gear economy. Now they’re going to go further with R9 and have moved the goal posts yet again not just with that, but making all the shiny new toys need several R5 toons (at minimum). All while simultaneously nerfing non GL counters to GL’s into oblivion. Sorry but they’re not doing right by their player base lately.
That's great if you think that, but that is not and does not mean that what they said. You keep saying they said that, which is not true.
It's great to advocate for things but then you also have to acknowledge the changes they have made. Because despite what anyone thinks, we do have more income of gear.
There are also many points that the player base doesnt address in this conversation, yes there are more options on what to spend gear on, and yes those are options not demands as they are more commonly stated to be. There are also points they have stated they are trying to preserve and no matter what me and you agree on, we do not have the exact details of what they are looking for. One other point is that no matter what we think we see, we do not have all the data and definitely do not have all the extremes to gauge the situation properly.
I agree it's not a balance that I feel is right, but I also can play this balance and make it work. So while it could be better which would have a better feel, it also works, as many of us are doing it.
No they are just being cautious and moving it bit by bit, because yes this is a grinding game where there is a way to pay for things to go faster. No they are not unwilling, at least no less willing than you will be to acknowledge that you dont need every GL, you just want them. Again, they is not more demand, there are more options.
I agree the alignment of all the things that have happened, is not great, and many of us have expressed this to them, but that doesnt change the fact that this is not a simple fix and it will take time and steps to get there.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
If they don’t have a fix in place for the gear economy, they don’t know how to fix it. They don’t need to directly say it. If they knew how, they would do it instead of “chipping away at it”. If they do know, but aren’t implementing the change because they want the “chipping away” aspect for profits, then that disingenuous.
Kyno I’ve been advocating for gear economy changes for a LONG time. Ive played plenty of other games that have had similar resource acquisition issues and power creep and those that did what CG has done earlier lost mine and many others interest to uninstalling and quitting.
For everything that MSF has done wrong lately, the one thing they do is know how to progress the gear system in a fair and sustainable manner so that when you reach the later stages of the game and the new tip of the spear is G16, getting to G12 is far easier than just last year but still requires proper resource management and doesn’t allow you to just upgrade everyone to g12 by the end of the week. Months later and I’m still building my overall roster towards that goal while also trying to max out my meta teams. That’s resource management and a good proper balance.
CG has proven incapable or unwilling to do so. There’s no way that since well over a year ago, Cyanide said they wanted to ease the gear crunch, but have still yet to do anything meaningful if at all to make the gear grind better. In all that time all they’ve done is add more and more layers of progression and resource/gear drain far outpacing any “natural solution” to the gear economy. Now they’re going to go further with R9 and have moved the goal posts yet again not just with that, but making all the shiny new toys need several R5 toons (at minimum). All while simultaneously nerfing non GL counters to GL’s into oblivion. Sorry but they’re not doing right by their player base lately.
That's great if you think that, but that is not and does not mean that what they said. You keep saying they said that, which is not true.
It's great to advocate for things but then you also have to acknowledge the changes they have made. Because despite what anyone thinks, we do have more income of gear.
There are also many points that the player base doesnt address in this conversation, yes there are more options on what to spend gear on, and yes those are options not demands as they are more commonly stated to be. There are also points they have stated they are trying to preserve and no matter what me and you agree on, we do not have the exact details of what they are looking for. One other point is that no matter what we think we see, we do not have all the data and definitely do not have all the extremes to gauge the situation properly.
I agree it's not a balance that I feel is right, but I also can play this balance and make it work. So while it could be better which would have a better feel, it also works, as many of us are doing it.
No they are just being cautious and moving it bit by bit, because yes this is a grinding game where there is a way to pay for things to go faster. No they are not unwilling, at least no less willing than you will be to acknowledge that you dont need every GL, you just want them. Again, they is not more demand, there are more options.
I agree the alignment of all the things that have happened, is not great, and many of us have expressed this to them, but that doesnt change the fact that this is not a simple fix and it will take time and steps to get there.
CG doesn’t seems cautious when they want to do something (ex. nerfing multiple characters to make it harder to beat GLs).
If they truly cared, they would have fixed the gear crunch long ago.
I've found this whole experience to be very enlightening.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
The funny thing is that there are simple things they can do to make the gear crunch better (much to Kyno’s disagreement). Honestly after almost a year there’s no way they can truthfully say that they’ve looked at the gear economy and can say that they’re still unsure. That’s a lie. I mean cmon, I was hyped for LV and even wanted to buy a couple vaults to get him but the amount of gear needed for his reqs so far is astronomical! I’ll just hoard for a month and go executor it’s second pass. I’m so demoralized by their lack of care with the gear economy that i just feel cheated if I spend money on the game and have my investment devalued so much.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
If they don’t have a fix in place for the gear economy, they don’t know how to fix it. They don’t need to directly say it. If they knew how, they would do it instead of “chipping away at it”. If they do know, but aren’t implementing the change because they want the “chipping away” aspect for profits, then that disingenuous.
Kyno I’ve been advocating for gear economy changes for a LONG time. Ive played plenty of other games that have had similar resource acquisition issues and power creep and those that did what CG has done earlier lost mine and many others interest to uninstalling and quitting.
For everything that MSF has done wrong lately, the one thing they do is know how to progress the gear system in a fair and sustainable manner so that when you reach the later stages of the game and the new tip of the spear is G16, getting to G12 is far easier than just last year but still requires proper resource management and doesn’t allow you to just upgrade everyone to g12 by the end of the week. Months later and I’m still building my overall roster towards that goal while also trying to max out my meta teams. That’s resource management and a good proper balance.
CG has proven incapable or unwilling to do so. There’s no way that since well over a year ago, Cyanide said they wanted to ease the gear crunch, but have still yet to do anything meaningful if at all to make the gear grind better. In all that time all they’ve done is add more and more layers of progression and resource/gear drain far outpacing any “natural solution” to the gear economy. Now they’re going to go further with R9 and have moved the goal posts yet again not just with that, but making all the shiny new toys need several R5 toons (at minimum). All while simultaneously nerfing non GL counters to GL’s into oblivion. Sorry but they’re not doing right by their player base lately.
That's great if you think that, but that is not and does not mean that what they said. You keep saying they said that, which is not true.
It's great to advocate for things but then you also have to acknowledge the changes they have made. Because despite what anyone thinks, we do have more income of gear.
There are also many points that the player base doesnt address in this conversation, yes there are more options on what to spend gear on, and yes those are options not demands as they are more commonly stated to be. There are also points they have stated they are trying to preserve and no matter what me and you agree on, we do not have the exact details of what they are looking for. One other point is that no matter what we think we see, we do not have all the data and definitely do not have all the extremes to gauge the situation properly.
I agree it's not a balance that I feel is right, but I also can play this balance and make it work. So while it could be better which would have a better feel, it also works, as many of us are doing it.
No they are just being cautious and moving it bit by bit, because yes this is a grinding game where there is a way to pay for things to go faster. No they are not unwilling, at least no less willing than you will be to acknowledge that you dont need every GL, you just want them. Again, they is not more demand, there are more options.
I agree the alignment of all the things that have happened, is not great, and many of us have expressed this to them, but that doesnt change the fact that this is not a simple fix and it will take time and steps to get there.
So let’s recap the last 18 months or so and if I missed something let me know because I do not have the time for now to go back and get everything in exact chronological order, but I’ll try my best.
-The devs added kyrotech to the game under the guise it would ease the gear crunch of current high bottleneck gear (mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, mk3 carbs etc etc etc).
-The kyros don’t in fact ease anything but make the crunch far worse. In response the devs add kyros to TB, TW, daily objectives dedicated GET2 spots and AB’s. This is enough to get the kyros more manageable to mk3 carbantis which have daily challenges spots, and multiple store farm locations as well as rewards from TW.
-There is still no visible relief to mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, mk8 biotech etc choke point gear.
-Devs introduce G13 and relics up to R7 which require more kyros and bottleneck gear and also require relic materials to grind for using old stockpiled gear (which is finite) through the Scavenger.
-Still no relief from day one gear crunch
-CG cyanides in a Q&A say they’re actively trying to relieve the gear crunch and think they have and ask what the players mean. The community pours in ideas and what they think is meaningful relief. No response from the devs.
-Devs roll out GC’s and Conquest which have prize boxes but have higher probabilities of rewarding gear that is not in high demand or even gear that is in an over abundance like Mk4 carbs and Mk4 stun guns. In fact GC’s are more for the mod slicing 2.0 materials which is the epitome of resource management as the event takes places often enough that with proper management, patience and prioritized slicing, you won’t be in short supply of materials. Ahem…..
-Devs roll out R8. There is still no relief for day one gear crunch items.
-Devs introduce an amazingly F2P and beginner player friendly change to the character shard farming and say they are researching ways to apply a similar change to gear economy but need more data.
-Devs roll out R9 a few months later. There is no relief from the gear crunch and it is announced that after 10+ months from the announced character shard changes and gear economy research, there are no changes planned aside from “natural relief”
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get. Those GL’s are requiring steeper and more expensive investments and requirements while our income remains stagnant. Just look at LV. Nothing below R5.
So please, tell me again how the community is missing something. You even agree that their balance is off. Nobody is here saying they demand LV day one. But you know what? If I did nothing but focus on LV from now on, it shouldn’t be ridiculous to unlock him in 2 months once all reqs are announced. It shouldn’t be out of the question to be able to farm 2 GL’s at once and get them unlocked in 6 months together. Given this is from the perspective of a 7M GP, day one player, scaled respectively for others. If they can’t find a balance after almost a year then there’s something very very wrong.
Kyrotech is the worst gear-related decision CG has ever made and was a flat out lie that it was introduced as a means to ease the gear crunch. It's almost like CG was thinking "maybe if we make things significantly worse, they'll think gear before kyro was good".
I don't even care that it takes a long time to gear up the requirements, but it's pretty stupid that it takes a grind for those stupid energy to play the event, another grind for the GLs gear, and then another grind for the ultimate ability. Putting too much grind between payouts doesn't make them more rewarding. It's just relief to finally be done. The enjoyment is crushed. Right now, you're forcing people into these grinds too. You will fatigue them and they will walk away, guaranteed. Then it's just gonna be whales playing with each other, meaning no big competitive advantage for spending...at all. How long you think that'll keep them entertained? Better figure out the carrot and stick formula before we stop chasing altogether.
If I did nothing but focus on LV from now on, it shouldn’t be ridiculous to unlock him in 2 months once all reqs are announced. It shouldn’t be out of the question to be able to farm 2 GL’s at once and get them unlocked in 6 months together.
I can't disagree with 90% of the post, all very valid points.
But, I snipped this small part as possibly being a bit too much.
A GL in 2 months seems fast to me, 2 of them in 6 months seems fast to me.
But, then again, their pacing is about 2 GL every 6 months, SO, if they are going to keep releasing them that fast, then maybe its not too much to be able to farm them?
Or, @Kyno, is the intent to release content faster than it is beatable so that you can never "beat the game"?
I honestly don't know how people have all 5 GLs.
I started "HARD" farming for SLKR back in May.
What I mean by that is pushing more than 1-2 of the characters up to Relic-5. (I had KRU there for long time but only put FOX there shortly before I finished up my GAS quest).
Its now August, and I'm still looking at 5 G12 Pieces between 2 characters & then to complete 6 relic levels.
Its taken me 3 months of constant farming & gearing & that was starting with 9/12 Characters already 7* and 5 of the FO & Palp were all between G11 & R5 with V.Han & the other 2 sitting at G8/7.
So its really just been finishing off 3 character farms (Hux, Lobster, & SF-TIE) & getting everyone to Relic level.
3 Months & I was arguably, 40%? of the way done already in terms of Gear & further in Char Shards.
They took years to release copycat TBs & C-Pit which are just skins of other events it seems, but managed to put out 6 GLs in 18 months that all require R7+ characters.
Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight? Because that is what its averaging out to, roughly.
So to sum up, maybe you shouldn't be able to get a GL in 2 months, BUT, you SHOULD be able to get them before another set is released that invalidates the previous set.
Right? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like that makes some sense.
If I did nothing but focus on LV from now on, it shouldn’t be ridiculous to unlock him in 2 months once all reqs are announced. It shouldn’t be out of the question to be able to farm 2 GL’s at once and get them unlocked in 6 months together.
I can't disagree with 90% of the post, all very valid points.
But, I snipped this small part as possibly being a bit too much.
A GL in 2 months seems fast to me, 2 of them in 6 months seems fast to me.
But, then again, their pacing is about 2 GL every 6 months, SO, if they are going to keep releasing them that fast, then maybe its not too much to be able to farm them?
Or, @Kyno, is the intent to release content faster than it is beatable so that you can never "beat the game"?
I honestly don't know how people have all 5 GLs.
I started "HARD" farming for SLKR back in May.
What I mean by that is pushing more than 1-2 of the characters up to Relic-5. (I had KRU there for long time but only put FOX there shortly before I finished up my GAS quest).
Its now August, and I'm still looking at 5 G12 Pieces between 2 characters & then to complete 6 relic levels.
Its taken me 3 months of constant farming & gearing & that was starting with 9/12 Characters already 7* and 5 of the FO & Palp were all between G11 & R5 with V.Han & the other 2 sitting at G8/7.
So its really just been finishing off 3 character farms (Hux, Lobster, & SF-TIE) & getting everyone to Relic level.
3 Months & I was arguably, 40%? of the way done already in terms of Gear & further in Char Shards.
They took years to release copycat TBs & C-Pit which are just skins of other events it seems, but managed to put out 6 GLs in 18 months that all require R7+ characters.
Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight? Because that is what its averaging out to, roughly.
So to sum up, maybe you shouldn't be able to get a GL in 2 months, BUT, you SHOULD be able to get them before another set is released that invalidates the previous set.
Right? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like that makes some sense.
The 2 months idea was subjective of course but the idea is that if we need 13 toons for each GL, some will already be gimmies, so you cut down your work. So for myself as a day one, 7M player, 2 months would be arguably fair (or not). For someone that’s aiming for their first GL and is a year or two old then of course it’s scaled a bit back.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
I’m not saying you don’t need GLs to stay competitive in pvp, just that you don’t need as many as you can. I miss 2 older GLs, I wont be more competitive in arena, gac nor conquest if I unlock them.
In gac you need GLs if you used a non-GLs counter roster, meaning that you used resources to build specific counters when you could have unlock a gl instead. This I fully agree. However, if you already did well in gac with zero GLs or one without using non-GLs counters (which depends on how you developed your roster and the matchmaking that goes with it), then you don’t need to unlock some more to stay competitive. You do need the new ones (so far only one of the duo) to stay competitive in arena, no argument there.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
I’m not saying you don’t need GLs to stay competitive in pvp, just that you don’t need as many as you can. I miss 2 older GLs, I wont be more competitive in arena, gac nor conquest if I unlock them.
In gac you need GLs if you used a non-GLs counter roster, meaning that you used resources to build specific counters when you could have unlock a gl instead. This I fully agree. However, if you already did well in gac with zero GLs or one without using non-GLs counters (which depends on how you developed your roster and the matchmaking that goes with it), then you don’t need to unlock some more to stay competitive. You do need the new ones (so far only one of the duo) to stay competitive in arena, no argument there.
But with the new changes to non GL counters, you have no choice but to go after GL’s now for GAC and conquest. The old counters won’t work anymore so people are forced to go after them now. I can’t use my Vader counter against Rey, the imperial trooper counter against SEE, Rex/Zarris against SLKR, or JKR against SLKR anymore. They’re actively eliminating any non GL counter that’s out there so for the purposes of GAC and conquest, players are going to be at massive disadvantages when paired against people with more GL’s than they have.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
I’m not saying you don’t need GLs to stay competitive in pvp, just that you don’t need as many as you can. I miss 2 older GLs, I wont be more competitive in arena, gac nor conquest if I unlock them.
In gac you need GLs if you used a non-GLs counter roster, meaning that you used resources to build specific counters when you could have unlock a gl instead. This I fully agree. However, if you already did well in gac with zero GLs or one without using non-GLs counters (which depends on how you developed your roster and the matchmaking that goes with it), then you don’t need to unlock some more to stay competitive. You do need the new ones (so far only one of the duo) to stay competitive in arena, no argument there.
But with the new changes to non GL counters, you have no choice but to go after GL’s now for GAC and conquest. The old counters won’t work anymore so people are forced to go after them now. I can’t use my Vader counter against Rey, the imperial trooper counter against SEE, Rex/Zarris against SLKR, or JKR against SLKR anymore.
Were you ever able to? I went all the way back to June 5th in your GAC history, which covers a full 5v5 season and a full 3v3 season. All but one time you used GLs to counter GLs (and often lost). The one time I found where you did try was a 5v5 where you took GAS 501st against SLKR and lost.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
I’m not saying you don’t need GLs to stay competitive in pvp, just that you don’t need as many as you can. I miss 2 older GLs, I wont be more competitive in arena, gac nor conquest if I unlock them.
In gac you need GLs if you used a non-GLs counter roster, meaning that you used resources to build specific counters when you could have unlock a gl instead. This I fully agree. However, if you already did well in gac with zero GLs or one without using non-GLs counters (which depends on how you developed your roster and the matchmaking that goes with it), then you don’t need to unlock some more to stay competitive. You do need the new ones (so far only one of the duo) to stay competitive in arena, no argument there.
But with the new changes to non GL counters, you have no choice but to go after GL’s now for GAC and conquest. The old counters won’t work anymore so people are forced to go after them now. I can’t use my Vader counter against Rey, the imperial trooper counter against SEE, Rex/Zarris against SLKR, or JKR against SLKR anymore.
Were you ever able to? I went all the way back to June 5th in your GAC history, which covers a full 5v5 season and a full 3v3 season. All but one time you used GLs to counter GLs (and often lost). The one time I found where you did try was a 5v5 where you took GAS 501st against SLKR and lost.
My ability to do so does not bear weight in this conversation since I made the choice to focus on my GL teams and specific strategies. That doesn’t mean those who relied on such non GL counters or methods aren’t severely hindered. I have the benefit of 3 GL’s in my division which is enough to push me through and since then have not needed those counters. Once I complete executor I’ll unlock JMK and have 4 GL’s. As for my 501st attempt it was a shot in the dark as I misplayed my strategy and it cost me an SLKR counter.
I’m curious though, what did you think my personal success or usage of those counters meant in this overall discussion? You’re actually proving my point that their success was not guaranteed and CG took non GL counters away simply to force those who don’t have them to have no success at all without GL’s of their own.
If I did nothing but focus on LV from now on, it shouldn’t be ridiculous to unlock him in 2 months once all reqs are announced. It shouldn’t be out of the question to be able to farm 2 GL’s at once and get them unlocked in 6 months together.
I can't disagree with 90% of the post, all very valid points.
But, I snipped this small part as possibly being a bit too much.
A GL in 2 months seems fast to me, 2 of them in 6 months seems fast to me.
But, then again, their pacing is about 2 GL every 6 months, SO, if they are going to keep releasing them that fast, then maybe its not too much to be able to farm them?
Or, @Kyno, is the intent to release content faster than it is beatable so that you can never "beat the game"?
I honestly don't know how people have all 5 GLs.
I started "HARD" farming for SLKR back in May.
What I mean by that is pushing more than 1-2 of the characters up to Relic-5. (I had KRU there for long time but only put FOX there shortly before I finished up my GAS quest).
Its now August, and I'm still looking at 5 G12 Pieces between 2 characters & then to complete 6 relic levels.
Its taken me 3 months of constant farming & gearing & that was starting with 9/12 Characters already 7* and 5 of the FO & Palp were all between G11 & R5 with V.Han & the other 2 sitting at G8/7.
So its really just been finishing off 3 character farms (Hux, Lobster, & SF-TIE) & getting everyone to Relic level.
3 Months & I was arguably, 40%? of the way done already in terms of Gear & further in Char Shards.
They took years to release copycat TBs & C-Pit which are just skins of other events it seems, but managed to put out 6 GLs in 18 months that all require R7+ characters.
Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight? Because that is what its averaging out to, roughly.
So to sum up, maybe you shouldn't be able to get a GL in 2 months, BUT, you SHOULD be able to get them before another set is released that invalidates the previous set.
Right? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like that makes some sense.
I absolutely agree with this. 2 months is a little fast, but 6? That's reasonable. Thr best line in this whole post "Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight?" There is thr problem, the only people keeping up with that are whales. Casual spenders are way behind. Great post.
Replies
i don't use stun guns for scavenger. Or stun cuffs. or eyeballs.......relic tiers don't have anything to do with those at all. And as for cantina, isn't that supposed to be part of the 'resource management' part? In LS/DS/Fleet you choose btwn gear or toon shards, in cantina you choose between relic mats or toon shards.
I'm sure that plays into it, but most early/mid pinch point gear is in the lower end relic materials, so even if they flooded it today, we are only hitting r3.
Hitting r3 makes a character useful to play with but not as a requirement (as we are seeing), so that seems like a fair point to hit, and work from.
Yes signal data is the other pinch, and again that seems a reasonable point to have a pinch as players develop. And early/mid game players will have to choose between those farms and signal data, which is always going to be a problem.
Bingo. Glad to see you finally speaking what we’ve all been trying to say. Especially with these LV reqs, every single one is R5 minimum, multiple R8/R7 reqs and it’s not looking to get better any time soon. That’s not ok.
The gap in requirements compared to income is growing further and faster and we haven’t seen any meaningful relief to the gear crunch. It’s past due. There’s no reason that once players are at 7/8 million GP, they still struggle to get past G8, or need to hoard and farm for months just for one character.
We have agreed on this for a while, in this thread,
but thank you for finally recognizing that. I just dont believe the suggestions you have to fix it would fit what they have said the points they are looking to hold onto.
Either way, yes we both agree they should do more to address the gear crunch. (I have said this before.) 🙃
How long have you been playing?
I started April-19 and the characters in Cantina are either Done for me or Useless for me.
So I'm just wondering what it is your farming still while also being advanced enough to need LOTS of Relic Mats?
I started in early 2018 I think, but I quit for about a year starting right around the time relics dropped (late 2019 or so I think?) so my roster and resources are in a slightly weird place relative to everyone else, admittedly. The main difference is probably that I value toons that you're considering useless though, unless you've been mega-whaling on Cantina farming the last 4 months.
So here goes...... how could they fix our stores to allow us to actually BUY the items we want to gear people up.
Guild Token Store - See Highlighted area that IMO don't need to be in the rotation.
Not bad, only 1 is useless out of 5. But even that one doesn't need to be in the rotation.
2 pieces don't need to be here at all & a 3rd (M5 Furnace) was only an issue at G8/9 when trying to level up multiple teams right around Level 70-85 range & now sit there waiting for the day you have to go back & work a different team.
2 pieces of gear that are easily farmed from nodes including better gear.
Better places to farm 3 of these v/s spending Guild Tokens
Mods Store - Do people even buy the Type-E mods w/ no stats on them?
Of this page the Gold Cross is the only one I'd even look at for possible Primary/Secondary combo of stats.
Maybe its just me but unless its a Gold "Left Side" or Purple "Right Side" mod, I don't even look at them.
GET Store: Arguably the most valuable currency in the game, I have no idea why there is ANYTHING in this store that isn't a hugely in demand item.
Personally I only buy the 6 "Epic" Ships/Characters from here & Stun Guns.
3 items out of 6 on this page are useless & need to be removed to make room for more frequent chances at the "Good" Gear.
I recently just crafted some MK3s so don't let that 91 fool you, this entire page is useless.
4 of 6 should be farmed in other locations. The last 2 should do but at least those 2 are slow enough that maybe someone could be desperate to speed up the process.
It would be bad to use GET but at least its not criminal like using it for the highlighted 4.
Now onto the Shard Shop.
Mixed bag of 2 useless, 3 questionable, and only 1 in demand item.
And a full row of items you don't want to buy to finish off the store.
Remove them from the Rotation, Replace them more shots at better items.
The only time I'm out of Shard Currency is when I start making LOTS of purchases of the 720 items for a particularly in demand G12 piece. If I'm not buying lots of 720's the Shard Shop just keeps building up.
And finally the newest store in game, The Conquest Store.
Created long after we have been pointing out the need to remove bad items from stores & only rotate good ones.
And we still get a 50/50 ratio today of bad items.
Its mind boggling that Mk4 Stunguns are in ANY store ever.
Its not like this would even be giving us gear free like the many updated challenge suggestions.
No, this would just let us SPEND FASTER, what a crazy concept that is right?
I agree with you but those who are on CG's side with just say as this is a "collection" game that requires you pick and choose which resources you collected to be upgraded and used, buyer/player be aware.. This game is full of the wrong gear/materials to collect that will not be a good ROI..
Also, slice some mods.
I don't think removing the gear you suggest would help much if any. I already use these stores exclusively for gear and ignore these items. I also frequently deplete these currencies and wait for more even with ignoring useless gear.
All removing the useless gear will do is change the waiting for gear you need to show up to waiting for more currency. Not much of a change.
The development time would be better spent on actually easing the pre g12 gear crunch.
They never said they were unsure....in fact Crumb said he wishes he could show us what they are planning.
No it's not simple, and the only lie I keep seeing is your portrayal of the statements made in the pod cast. He even says he wishes he could show us more of what they are working on. The only thing remotely close to what you are saying is that he says it something they are always chipping away at and he can't give a direct answer. There is no magic fix that does what they want and works, it's an ongoing thing, but at no point does he say they dont know, or unsure, unless you mean when he says hes unsure how to answer and then goes into the best answer we are going to get about such a complicated system.
If they don’t have a fix in place for the gear economy, they don’t know how to fix it. They don’t need to directly say it. If they knew how, they would do it instead of “chipping away at it”. If they do know, but aren’t implementing the change because they want the “chipping away” aspect for profits, then that disingenuous.
Kyno I’ve been advocating for gear economy changes for a LONG time. Ive played plenty of other games that have had similar resource acquisition issues and power creep and those that did what CG has done earlier lost mine and many others interest to uninstalling and quitting.
For everything that MSF has done wrong lately, the one thing they do is know how to progress the gear system in a fair and sustainable manner so that when you reach the later stages of the game and the new tip of the spear is G16, getting to G12 is far easier than just last year but still requires proper resource management and doesn’t allow you to just upgrade everyone to g12 by the end of the week. Months later and I’m still building my overall roster towards that goal while also trying to max out my meta teams. That’s resource management and a good proper balance.
CG has proven incapable or unwilling to do so. There’s no way that since well over a year ago, Cyanide said they wanted to ease the gear crunch, but have still yet to do anything meaningful if at all to make the gear grind better. In all that time all they’ve done is add more and more layers of progression and resource/gear drain far outpacing any “natural solution” to the gear economy. Now they’re going to go further with R9 and have moved the goal posts yet again not just with that, but making all the shiny new toys need several R5 toons (at minimum). All while simultaneously nerfing non GL counters to GL’s into oblivion. Sorry but they’re not doing right by their player base lately.
Gear poor folks won't be seeing this since they won't get to relicing being stuck on the gear side.
1. There was a time when M3 Detonators were hard to come by, but, that was when I was new to 85 & leveling far too many toons at one time & getting stuck at mid-purple gear levels.
At this point I have like 1000 salvage & no toon I'm working needs them.
To me, similar to Mk6 Hypos, these are only an issue if your pushing too many toons too fast.
I haven't had to farm them in 6 months to a year now.
2. The Mk5 Blastechs have about a 50% drop rate so once a month or so when I run out I'll drop a couple of 50 crystal refreshes directly into simming a 6 Energy Node for just them (or 8/10 shared w/ another piece?).
I never need to buy them anymore.
That said, your right, those are both solid buys that I did back when I had a huge need for both those items.
That doesn't mean most of the ones I highlighted have any value.
3. LOL, I slice LOTS of mods, I just don't bother buying a mod & leveling it when the starting stats are questionable. Like say, an unknown grey. I look stuff that at least has 2-3 stats I want before I purchase it.
I get enough greys when farming mods directly from challenges.
And yet after a year we don't have new challenge levels w/ in demand gear.
They clearly don't WANT to give us more gear.
So my point was instead give us access to what we need faster if not more of it.
I don't mega-whale on anything, lol.
I try to refresh cantina several times a week on the cheap-100 refreshes but can't afford all 21.
If Fleet income is going well I can get 15-18 maybe.
Otherwise its more like 3-8x for the week.
But I also don't farm every character just to collect them.
To me the game is already too large so unless it is someone I need for a legendary event then I skip them.
Also if they come to me free from Bronziums or Events then I also skip them & accept that its a slow farm.
Pretty much my roster is every team needed for one of the Legendary/Journey events or a TB mission.
Outside of those & SLKR, I'm not sure I've farmed anyone else really.
That's great if you think that, but that is not and does not mean that what they said. You keep saying they said that, which is not true.
It's great to advocate for things but then you also have to acknowledge the changes they have made. Because despite what anyone thinks, we do have more income of gear.
There are also many points that the player base doesnt address in this conversation, yes there are more options on what to spend gear on, and yes those are options not demands as they are more commonly stated to be. There are also points they have stated they are trying to preserve and no matter what me and you agree on, we do not have the exact details of what they are looking for. One other point is that no matter what we think we see, we do not have all the data and definitely do not have all the extremes to gauge the situation properly.
I agree it's not a balance that I feel is right, but I also can play this balance and make it work. So while it could be better which would have a better feel, it also works, as many of us are doing it.
No they are just being cautious and moving it bit by bit, because yes this is a grinding game where there is a way to pay for things to go faster. No they are not unwilling, at least no less willing than you will be to acknowledge that you dont need every GL, you just want them. Again, they is not more demand, there are more options.
I agree the alignment of all the things that have happened, is not great, and many of us have expressed this to them, but that doesnt change the fact that this is not a simple fix and it will take time and steps to get there.
CG doesn’t seems cautious when they want to do something (ex. nerfing multiple characters to make it harder to beat GLs).
If they truly cared, they would have fixed the gear crunch long ago.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
So let’s recap the last 18 months or so and if I missed something let me know because I do not have the time for now to go back and get everything in exact chronological order, but I’ll try my best.
-The devs added kyrotech to the game under the guise it would ease the gear crunch of current high bottleneck gear (mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, mk3 carbs etc etc etc).
-The kyros don’t in fact ease anything but make the crunch far worse. In response the devs add kyros to TB, TW, daily objectives dedicated GET2 spots and AB’s. This is enough to get the kyros more manageable to mk3 carbantis which have daily challenges spots, and multiple store farm locations as well as rewards from TW.
-There is still no visible relief to mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, mk8 biotech etc choke point gear.
-Devs introduce G13 and relics up to R7 which require more kyros and bottleneck gear and also require relic materials to grind for using old stockpiled gear (which is finite) through the Scavenger.
-Still no relief from day one gear crunch
-CG cyanides in a Q&A say they’re actively trying to relieve the gear crunch and think they have and ask what the players mean. The community pours in ideas and what they think is meaningful relief. No response from the devs.
-Devs roll out GC’s and Conquest which have prize boxes but have higher probabilities of rewarding gear that is not in high demand or even gear that is in an over abundance like Mk4 carbs and Mk4 stun guns. In fact GC’s are more for the mod slicing 2.0 materials which is the epitome of resource management as the event takes places often enough that with proper management, patience and prioritized slicing, you won’t be in short supply of materials. Ahem…..
-Devs roll out R8. There is still no relief for day one gear crunch items.
-Devs introduce an amazingly F2P and beginner player friendly change to the character shard farming and say they are researching ways to apply a similar change to gear economy but need more data.
-Devs roll out R9 a few months later. There is no relief from the gear crunch and it is announced that after 10+ months from the announced character shard changes and gear economy research, there are no changes planned aside from “natural relief”
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get. Those GL’s are requiring steeper and more expensive investments and requirements while our income remains stagnant. Just look at LV. Nothing below R5.
So please, tell me again how the community is missing something. You even agree that their balance is off. Nobody is here saying they demand LV day one. But you know what? If I did nothing but focus on LV from now on, it shouldn’t be ridiculous to unlock him in 2 months once all reqs are announced. It shouldn’t be out of the question to be able to farm 2 GL’s at once and get them unlocked in 6 months together. Given this is from the perspective of a 7M GP, day one player, scaled respectively for others. If they can’t find a balance after almost a year then there’s something very very wrong.
I don't even care that it takes a long time to gear up the requirements, but it's pretty stupid that it takes a grind for those stupid energy to play the event, another grind for the GLs gear, and then another grind for the ultimate ability. Putting too much grind between payouts doesn't make them more rewarding. It's just relief to finally be done. The enjoyment is crushed. Right now, you're forcing people into these grinds too. You will fatigue them and they will walk away, guaranteed. Then it's just gonna be whales playing with each other, meaning no big competitive advantage for spending...at all. How long you think that'll keep them entertained? Better figure out the carrot and stick formula before we stop chasing altogether.
I can't disagree with 90% of the post, all very valid points.
But, I snipped this small part as possibly being a bit too much.
A GL in 2 months seems fast to me, 2 of them in 6 months seems fast to me.
But, then again, their pacing is about 2 GL every 6 months, SO, if they are going to keep releasing them that fast, then maybe its not too much to be able to farm them?
Or, @Kyno, is the intent to release content faster than it is beatable so that you can never "beat the game"?
I honestly don't know how people have all 5 GLs.
I started "HARD" farming for SLKR back in May.
What I mean by that is pushing more than 1-2 of the characters up to Relic-5. (I had KRU there for long time but only put FOX there shortly before I finished up my GAS quest).
Its now August, and I'm still looking at 5 G12 Pieces between 2 characters & then to complete 6 relic levels.
Its taken me 3 months of constant farming & gearing & that was starting with 9/12 Characters already 7* and 5 of the FO & Palp were all between G11 & R5 with V.Han & the other 2 sitting at G8/7.
So its really just been finishing off 3 character farms (Hux, Lobster, & SF-TIE) & getting everyone to Relic level.
3 Months & I was arguably, 40%? of the way done already in terms of Gear & further in Char Shards.
They took years to release copycat TBs & C-Pit which are just skins of other events it seems, but managed to put out 6 GLs in 18 months that all require R7+ characters.
Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight? Because that is what its averaging out to, roughly.
So to sum up, maybe you shouldn't be able to get a GL in 2 months, BUT, you SHOULD be able to get them before another set is released that invalidates the previous set.
Right? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like that makes some sense.
The 2 months idea was subjective of course but the idea is that if we need 13 toons for each GL, some will already be gimmies, so you cut down your work. So for myself as a day one, 7M player, 2 months would be arguably fair (or not). For someone that’s aiming for their first GL and is a year or two old then of course it’s scaled a bit back.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
I’m not saying you don’t need GLs to stay competitive in pvp, just that you don’t need as many as you can. I miss 2 older GLs, I wont be more competitive in arena, gac nor conquest if I unlock them.
In gac you need GLs if you used a non-GLs counter roster, meaning that you used resources to build specific counters when you could have unlock a gl instead. This I fully agree. However, if you already did well in gac with zero GLs or one without using non-GLs counters (which depends on how you developed your roster and the matchmaking that goes with it), then you don’t need to unlock some more to stay competitive. You do need the new ones (so far only one of the duo) to stay competitive in arena, no argument there.
But with the new changes to non GL counters, you have no choice but to go after GL’s now for GAC and conquest. The old counters won’t work anymore so people are forced to go after them now. I can’t use my Vader counter against Rey, the imperial trooper counter against SEE, Rex/Zarris against SLKR, or JKR against SLKR anymore. They’re actively eliminating any non GL counter that’s out there so for the purposes of GAC and conquest, players are going to be at massive disadvantages when paired against people with more GL’s than they have.
Were you ever able to? I went all the way back to June 5th in your GAC history, which covers a full 5v5 season and a full 3v3 season. All but one time you used GLs to counter GLs (and often lost). The one time I found where you did try was a 5v5 where you took GAS 501st against SLKR and lost.
My ability to do so does not bear weight in this conversation since I made the choice to focus on my GL teams and specific strategies. That doesn’t mean those who relied on such non GL counters or methods aren’t severely hindered. I have the benefit of 3 GL’s in my division which is enough to push me through and since then have not needed those counters. Once I complete executor I’ll unlock JMK and have 4 GL’s. As for my 501st attempt it was a shot in the dark as I misplayed my strategy and it cost me an SLKR counter.
I’m curious though, what did you think my personal success or usage of those counters meant in this overall discussion? You’re actually proving my point that their success was not guaranteed and CG took non GL counters away simply to force those who don’t have them to have no success at all without GL’s of their own.
I absolutely agree with this. 2 months is a little fast, but 6? That's reasonable. Thr best line in this whole post "Who is getting enough gear from this game to completely gear & Relic a character a week for 18 months straight?" There is thr problem, the only people keeping up with that are whales. Casual spenders are way behind. Great post.