Proving Grounds

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  • herd_nerfer
    2032 posts Member
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    crzydroid wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Something I just don't get: Ever since GAC has been changed, we were told over and over again that GP is not the right way to measure the value of a roster. That your skill, your mods etc are what makes you better or worse.
    We are theoretically getting matched against day 1 accounts for that very reason!

    And yet now all of a sudden, CG uses our GP to value our roster again to tell us, if we are good enough.
    These definition swings are giving me whiplash.

    If we are being told over and over that we can/should punch up in GAC with the right roster/toons/mods etc., then why are we not able to try the same in PG? Or Conquest for that matter btw. This is a huge contradiction and the lack of consistency makes this just depressing.

    There might be some who now would say, well it is 4M GP minimum to be able to play hard Conquest so it is fair to have the same requirements for PG.
    This argument might have been true before the GAC changes, because until that point the measurement by CG for roster strength was GP. But it is not anymore after the change. You can't use different measurements in the same game about the strenght of a roster that contradict each other just because it suits you better and expect everyone to just accept or understand it! It doesn't work that way!

    Edit to add:
    Basically we are matched agains players with Conquest characters and we are being told the reason for that is because GP doesn't matter or reflect a roster's strength. Yet we are not allowed to get the Conquest characters so we can have a fair chance against these players and are being told the reason for that is because GP matters.

    An interesting interpretation of the GAC changes. I feel like the announcements were fairly clear that their intention was that people grow their roster. Getting rid of GP divisions was to prevent "sandbagging," (their words), by which they meant people who would gear units no higher than necessary and thereby get better matchups. In other words, those people who are now punching up. Their intention with the changes was always to get people to gear more and increase their rosters. You can only punch up so far before you hit a wall, and that's what they want.

    Wouldn't acquiring a new character (CAT) be considered roster growth? With GP removed as a deciding factor from matchmaking and division placement in GAC there is no longer any reason for a player to squelch roster growth - in fact, the opposite is true. And if CG wants rosters growing, why put a 1+ year old character behind a GP wall? We all already have plenty of motivation to grow our rosters, new players and veterans both - that IS part of the draw of the game - collecting characters.

    Respectfully, crzydroid, I think Lumiya is making a really valid point - in some regards GP is respected (PG, Conquest, TW rewards), and in other regards it's dismissed as meaningless (GAC). So the question is - what is the real motivation for the 4mGP requirement? What is achieved by gating a character (that's a year old now and has already enjoyed a period of exclusivity) behind GP? I know you don't have the answers, but as players many of us are just trying to make sense of what is going on in a game we all enjoy and devote a lot of our time to.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • StarSon
    7493 posts Member
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    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    I think the GAC point is fair I just beat a 4.6M roster with my 3.5M because of my investment and skill. They did play and failed to get through my defence. I invested 22k crystal to CAT so far and progressing JMK to push ahead and grow my roster more which you state is the purpose. My opponent lost against me but they can access CAT should they want. GP is not relevant anymore and is not a good measure of effort or investment. They may have just played a year more than me. But if there’s a ceiling on me accessing characters then GAC MM is further undermined. How can you match make me against >4M rosters which have been given even more added advantage now, I do not want to face characters I can not access (and not because of F2P vs P2P) I payed money towards CAT before access was cut off.

  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    Well. Buying her shards at conquest store looks like farmable
  • PumaK
    301 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    Yeah, it was never farmable. Purchasing shards for crystal or conquest currency of a character or ship isn't considered farming??? And the same with gear pieces???
    Probably then, spending crystal on node refreshes isn't farming, or spending guild currency on ships shards of malevolence and negotiator, or fleet currency on Zeta mats or the rex ship....
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    so those 188 CAT shards are figments of his imagination? CG were the ones who said she'd become more farmable, it's not like they're putting words in CG's mouth.
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    DCNathanon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    Well. Buying her shards at conquest store looks like farmable

    Agree, expensive resource cost at 600 crystals for 5 shards but I definitely was farming CAT by that means before.

    That’s why it’s annoying because I could farm CAT before but not now. Why that’s not considered an issue, I do not understand.

  • StarSon
    7493 posts Member
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    .
    PumaK wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    Yeah, it was never farmable. Purchasing shards for crystal or conquest currency of a character or ship isn't considered farming??? And the same with gear pieces???
    Probably then, spending crystal on node refreshes isn't farming, or spending guild currency on ships shards of malevolence and negotiator, or fleet currency on Zeta mats or the rex ship....

    No, buying shards with crystals is not the same as farmable. Spending guild currency or fleet currency on a character or ship is considered farmable.
    StarSon wrote: »
    Is there any other character in the game who was farmable and then removed by GP or other wall? Ive played this game from beta test (on other account that i lost access in 2017) and cant remember such. Now im 1.6 mil gp and have 188 CAT shards and hit this new beautiful wall lol

    CAT was never farmable, so doesn't apply.

    so those 188 CAT shards are figments of his imagination? CG were the ones who said she'd become more farmable, it's not like they're putting words in CG's mouth.

    I don't know what 188 CAT shards you're talking about. And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."
  • Lumiya
    1552 posts Member
    edited May 2022
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    StarSon wrote: »

    And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    And yet they will be less/not available to a good chunk of players

    Edit for clarification
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • StarSon
    7493 posts Member
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    Lumiya wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    And yet they will be less/not available to a good chunk of players

    Edit for clarification

    CAT is now more available than she was last week. Even with the 4M gate, everyone over 4M now has access to her and they didn't last week.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    And yet they will be less/not available to a good chunk of players

    Edit for clarification

    CAT is now more available than she was last week. Even with the 4M gate, everyone over 4M now has access to her and they didn't last week.


    You're joking, right?

    CAT is less farmable now than ever before. Not even considering the scummy fact that CG randomly just pulled her from the conquest store, you could at least farm her from weekly shipments. Now you can get a maximum of 60 shards of her per month, at an absurdly high cost as well.

    There is literally no debate here. CAT is not easier to farm after the one year mark for any player, 4 mill GP or not. She is factually harder and more expensive to grind for anyone who does not have her.
  • Bearda
    27 posts Member
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    I am fortunate in that my account was old enough at the time of conquest I can reasonably expect to get each conquest unit within 6 conquests if I try, gold crate and some shard buying. But I have to say I am disappointed for new folks who might be hyped to have commander tano, or a mandalorian maul and realistically can't get them for years. The 4 mil gp and massive crystal refresh cost are both awful in my book. I have to say I have enjoyment in the game because I already have a roster, I honestly couldn't recommend a new friend to the game anymore because of things like this and I find it deeply saddening.
  • Options
    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I do have SEE, but there are people with 4mil GP that don't have a GL. That being said, you're not exactly disagreeing with me on how it might be tuned!
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    And yet they will be less/not available to a good chunk of players

    Edit for clarification

    CAT is now more available than she was last week. Even with the 4M gate, everyone over 4M now has access to her and they didn't last week.

    Incorrect. Before PG was announced she was in rotation in conquest store so was permanently available to all sized rosters. If PG was to make her more available it fails it’s intention. Which remains the main issue, many less than 4M have been buying shards. They were farming and making significant progress even if slow. Now they can not. Therefore she is less available.

  • Ultra
    11553 posts Moderator
    edited May 2022
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    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I do have SEE, but there are people with 4mil GP that don't have a GL. That being said, you're not exactly disagreeing with me on how it might be tuned!

    I mean you have 200 characters to choose from to attempt proving grounds

    Use terrible toons and r3 might not be good enough

    Use meta teams and r3 might be overkill

    The difficulty of the event is subjective to what toons you upgraded to r3

    This is me disagreeing with your statement btw
  • TargetEadu
    1620 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I see you defending the GP requirement and I'd like to know what you think the harm is if a 1.5M GP player happens to have 5 R3 toons, completes PG (assume they can) and ends the month with a total of 20 CAT shards.

    Do you believe allowing sub 4MGP players access to PG unbalances the game in some way?
    This is why people are angry because its needlessly exclusionary.

    It would further unbalance PVP at that level, because then only spenders would have CAT at 1.5M GP.

    What's the difference between PG and a person that pays crystals/money to refresh the Endurance event today so they can unlock 7* Endurance earlier than their PVP opponents?

    If someone pays to get the worst capital ship to 7* before their PvP opponents, they can do that I guess.

    (If you mean Executor then I guess it makes sense, but there are differences - like the fact you can 7* Exec on the first event from packs if you have enough crystals.)
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?
  • Dianora
    124 posts Member
    edited May 2022
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    Rius wrote: »
    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?

    There are no GP requirements. Plenty of players focusing SLKR get him between 1.5-1.8M. SEE and Rey are very doable in that range as well. Starkiller only requires four characters at R5 so you could probably get him around 1M GP (would not recommend).
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    Dianora wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?

    There are no GP requirements. Plenty of players focusing SLKR get him between 1.5-1.8M. SEE and Rey are very doable in that range as well. Starkiller only requires four characters at R5 so you could probably get him around 1M GP (would not recommend).

    So I really do not understand the balance or exclusivity arguments for 4M, maybe 2M which is the normal conquest requirement anyway. It’s already a long grind from normal conquest, characters should be achievable still.

  • Options
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I do have SEE, but there are people with 4mil GP that don't have a GL. That being said, you're not exactly disagreeing with me on how it might be tuned!

    I mean you have 200 characters to choose from to attempt proving grounds

    Use terrible toons and r3 might not be good enough

    Use meta teams and r3 might be overkill

    The difficulty of the event is subjective to what toons you upgraded to r3

    This is me disagreeing with your statement btw

    I'm referring to the way they tune Galactic Challenges where you can have an awesome team at R7 and still get destroyed even below tier 10. That kind of tuning.

    No need to try to be smart with me just to save face.
  • PumaK
    301 posts Member
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    Rius wrote: »
    Dianora wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?

    There are no GP requirements. Plenty of players focusing SLKR get him between 1.5-1.8M. SEE and Rey are very doable in that range as well. Starkiller only requires four characters at R5 so you could probably get him around 1M GP (would not recommend).

    So I really do not understand the balance or exclusivity arguments for 4M, maybe 2M which is the normal conquest requirement anyway. It’s already a long grind from normal conquest, characters should be achievable still.

    Nobody with common sense can understand it, they should also gate through 4m GP right Now the conquest pass too because it's going to be really hard they sell it to accounts with less than 4m GP
  • Ultra
    11553 posts Moderator
    edited May 2022
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    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I do have SEE, but there are people with 4mil GP that don't have a GL. That being said, you're not exactly disagreeing with me on how it might be tuned!

    I mean you have 200 characters to choose from to attempt proving grounds

    Use terrible toons and r3 might not be good enough

    Use meta teams and r3 might be overkill

    The difficulty of the event is subjective to what toons you upgraded to r3

    This is me disagreeing with your statement btw

    I'm referring to the way they tune Galactic Challenges where you can have an awesome team at R7 and still get destroyed even below tier 10. That kind of tuning.

    No need to try to be smart with me just to save face.

    like i said that kind of tuning is impossible since you have 200+ characters to choose from

    the GC is only difficult because you are using bad factions like inquisitor - try T10 of GC with GLs and let me know if awesome team at R7 get destroyed (any GL but SEE)
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »

    No, buying shards with crystals is not the same as farmable. Spending guild currency or fleet currency on a character or ship is considered farmable.

    I don't know what 188 CAT shards you're talking about. And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    Are you intentionally being obtuse?

    You could buy CAT with Conquest Tickets, this is the same as Guild or Fleet currency & not the same as Crystals.

    Obviously he's talking about how he has 188 CAT shards farmed so far.

    And if its ONLY available to 4 Mil+ accounts and previously was available to 1 Mil+ accounts then that is NOT MORE available.
  • BobaFettish86
    607 posts Member
    edited May 2022
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    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    What's particularly galling is we all know that it might say R3 requirement but we also know it'll be balanced for R7s and/or GLs as that is what CG do.

    At 4 million GP, you will have a GL or two (plus some R7s), so that should not be an issue

    I do have SEE, but there are people with 4mil GP that don't have a GL. That being said, you're not exactly disagreeing with me on how it might be tuned!

    I mean you have 200 characters to choose from to attempt proving grounds

    Use terrible toons and r3 might not be good enough

    Use meta teams and r3 might be overkill

    The difficulty of the event is subjective to what toons you upgraded to r3

    This is me disagreeing with your statement btw

    I'm referring to the way they tune Galactic Challenges where you can have an awesome team at R7 and still get destroyed even below tier 10. That kind of tuning.

    No need to try to be smart with me just to save face.

    like i said that kind of tuning is impossible since you have 200+ characters to choose from

    the GC is only difficult because you are using bad factions like inquisitor - try T10 of GC with GLs and let me know if awesome team at R7 get destroyed (any GL but SEE)

    Since I only have SEE at present (see previous post) and am working towards JML, I will have to take your word for it. But there has been some GCs lately where my R8 SEE has struggled to win. And there's no point trying to blame my mods as I very rarely lose to other SEEs or JML.

    I don't put anything past CG when it comes to tuning their own game.
  • Dianora
    124 posts Member
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    Rius wrote: »
    Dianora wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?

    There are no GP requirements. Plenty of players focusing SLKR get him between 1.5-1.8M. SEE and Rey are very doable in that range as well. Starkiller only requires four characters at R5 so you could probably get him around 1M GP (would not recommend).

    So I really do not understand the balance or exclusivity arguments for 4M, maybe 2M which is the normal conquest requirement anyway. It’s already a long grind from normal conquest, characters should be achievable still.

    There's no GP requirement for normal, just have to beat Easy which is um... easy. I was getting chest 3 of Normal at 1M GP.
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
    Options
    Dianora wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    Dianora wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    What are the GP restrictions on GAS, starkiller, GL’s and executor, is anything near 4M? Before the stealth addition there were no complaints since the announcement a month and a half ago.

    A new player will need 2.5 -4 years to unlock CAT. That is ridiculous. You can have any other character in that time.

    How about another option, return the old characters for an option in normal conquest. It’s pointless anyway as it will leave the 2M GP participants with a fraction of shards for all the hot characters released, but no way to actually unlock them. So why not leave it in rotation.

    Anyone talking about balance, this was not an issue before when <4M GP were purchasing shards through crystal so why now?

    There are no GP requirements. Plenty of players focusing SLKR get him between 1.5-1.8M. SEE and Rey are very doable in that range as well. Starkiller only requires four characters at R5 so you could probably get him around 1M GP (would not recommend).

    So I really do not understand the balance or exclusivity arguments for 4M, maybe 2M which is the normal conquest requirement anyway. It’s already a long grind from normal conquest, characters should be achievable still.

    There's no GP requirement for normal, just have to beat Easy which is um... easy. I was getting chest 3 of Normal at 1M GP.

    My bad, makes sense as I think I was 1.6M when CAT was in conquest so of course it’s below 2M. Then absolutely no justification in restriction, if a 1M roster can farm shards in conquest they should be able to continue a year later with the catch up mechanism.

  • StarSon
    7493 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »

    No, buying shards with crystals is not the same as farmable. Spending guild currency or fleet currency on a character or ship is considered farmable.

    I don't know what 188 CAT shards you're talking about. And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    Are you intentionally being obtuse?

    You could buy CAT with Conquest Tickets, this is the same as Guild or Fleet currency & not the same as Crystals.

    Obviously he's talking about how he has 188 CAT shards farmed so far.

    And if its ONLY available to 4 Mil+ accounts and previously was available to 1 Mil+ accounts then that is NOT MORE available.

    No. Assuming CAT always showed up in the store, how many shards could you buy each month if you spent currency only on CAT?
  • Rius
    373 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    No, buying shards with crystals is not the same as farmable. Spending guild currency or fleet currency on a character or ship is considered farmable.

    I don't know what 188 CAT shards you're talking about. And they didn't say "more farmable" they said "more available."

    Are you intentionally being obtuse?

    You could buy CAT with Conquest Tickets, this is the same as Guild or Fleet currency & not the same as Crystals.

    Obviously he's talking about how he has 188 CAT shards farmed so far.

    And if its ONLY available to 4 Mil+ accounts and previously was available to 1 Mil+ accounts then that is NOT MORE available.

    No. Assuming CAT always showed up in the store, how many shards could you buy each month if you spent currency only on CAT?

    Plenty. Depending on what other priorities I was balancing with. If I paused refreshes I could get 15-20 a week F2P 4*600. I get rank 1 in fleet 400 Crystal payout and if it was a good GAC payout. I was actually set to complete CAT but I got bad RNG a few months before they removed her from game and did not see shards in store more than 2 times those months. And had a side project to relic my clones for KAM which used refreshes. If I knew they were removing her from my ability to farm then I would have prioritised differently.

  • Rius
    373 posts Member
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    I earned shards in normal conquest spent 22K crystals (including some bought with money) and I am just 70 short. That’s enough basis for why it is not fair to cut me off for being 0.5M GP short of an arbitrary stealthily added requirement. If shards were available in normal the we should be able to catch up a year later. Else why have a normal mode with character shards?
  • Lovimgsaskia1
    372 posts Member
    edited May 2022
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    Rius wrote: »
    I earned shards in normal conquest spent 22K crystals (including some bought with money) and I am just 70 short. That’s enough basis for why it is not fair to cut me off for being 0.5M GP short of an arbitrary stealthily added requirement. If shards were available in normal the we should be able to catch up a year later. Else why have a normal mode with character shards?

    I think out of all the arguments I've seen this is the most compelling.
    If you can get shards in conquest for a character in normal mode, all be it less of them, it's entirely reasonable to expect to be able to obtain them via the proving grounds.
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