It's not so much the fact that +30 speed is such a game breaking change, it's the fact that a full team with +30 speed (minimum) is a problem unless you have the same, especially when you put these mods on characters that are already a hot topic for nerf debates (rey for example). It's because these mods that may look like they give you the chance to make mediocre characters viable in a competitive arena, are the same mods being applied to already top tier characters pushing them even further ahead, leaving behind your mediocre toons exactly where they were before... There's no such thing as "balance" when it comes to mods because there are zero limitations on who can use them, how does no one realise that?!?
Yea they may have added an extra layer of customisation but we are already starting to see the 'meta' setup to go with and the maximum % that the mods can give isn't quite enough to give a 'borderline' character that push to be able to compete with the more popular meta choice.
The only primary stats that make a rather noticeable difference at the moment are potency (24%) speed (+30) and protection on tanks (23.5%)
I beat a team yesterday with all +30 speed receivers. They were Old Ben(L), Rey, Rg, Sth and Qgj. The only thing speed did was allowed them to go before me. Once I landed my stuns, killed Rey, removed taunts, and got my offense up, it was all down hill from there. Speed didn't help them. I'm a strong believer in once you get max gear, omega abilities and actually understand the games fundamentals then all that's left to do is to execute your plan to secure the W.
Unless toons can one shot your team like back in the days of Poe/droid teams..then speed isn't really that big of a deal like people are making out to be.
This. Plus you can go get your own speed mods for every toon, which puts the speed rankings where it was before mods. There are legitimate problems in this game, but this isn't one of them.
No, not "this."
"This" along with your reply are exactly why the BUFF was too large, and needs to be reduced. As most keep saying... "well just go get that speed mod also, then it's back in balance." Ooooooh, wonderful! So what you want is a completely pointless credit sink that maintains status quo! Awesome!
Given 30 speed, vs ANYTHING ELSE available in that slot... NO ONE is choosing something else. The primary speed stat is too high. Period. I understand you can't see the inevitable result yet, but some of us can and know it's going to be extremely bad for the game.
And stop calling it a nerf. It JUST got in the game seconds ago. It's not like we came here because Dooku was mean and hit 4 times in a row and now we want him nerfed.
As of now... it's asking for the reduction of an excessive buff. Not calling for a nerf.
It's not so much the fact that +30 speed is such a game breaking change, it's the fact that a full team with +30 speed (minimum) is a problem unless you have the same, especially when you put these mods on characters that are already a hot topic for nerf debates (rey for example). It's because these mods that may look like they give you the chance to make mediocre characters viable in a competitive arena, are the same mods being applied to already top tier characters pushing them even further ahead, leaving behind your mediocre toons exactly where they were before... There's no such thing as "balance" when it comes to mods because there are zero limitations on who can use them, how does no one realise that?!?
Yea they may have added an extra layer of customisation but we are already starting to see the 'meta' setup to go with and the maximum % that the mods can give isn't quite enough to give a 'borderline' character that push to be able to compete with the more popular meta choice.
The only primary stats that make a rather noticeable difference at the moment are potency (24%) speed (+30) and protection on tanks (23.5%)
I beat a team yesterday with all +30 speed receivers. They were Old Ben(L), Rey, Rg, Sth and Qgj. The only thing speed did was allowed them to go before me. Once I landed my stuns, killed Rey, removed taunts, and got my offense up, it was all down hill from there. Speed didn't help them. I'm a strong believer in once you get max gear, omega abilities and actually understand the games fundamentals then all that's left to do is to execute your plan to secure the W.
Unless toons can one shot your team like back in the days of Poe/droid teams..then speed isn't really that big of a deal like people are making out to be.
This. Plus you can go get your own speed mods for every toon, which puts the speed rankings where it was before mods. There are legitimate problems in this game, but this isn't one of them.
Getting your own speed mods is insanely RNG dependent, more so than anything else the game has seen. That is the root of the issue. And please, some of you must realize that there are a lot of people who play this game who are not at Max gear and fully omega'd. You can't ignore the balance of the game for 99% of the players.
Ok, so what is the real problem here? The people who are not fully maxed in gear and omegas? Or is it the speed mods? Cause if your're squad is not in maxed gear, omegas and speed mods and you're fighting maxed toons with omegas and speed mods is it really necessary to want speed mods nerfed? Wouldn't it be better for those players to get maxed gear/omegas and the mods of your choice so the playing field would be more even? Why nerf something when all that needs to be done is spending time on your squad to get them better? That can be said about anything on this game. For example, people want certain toons nerfed, when all the while it's not the toon that's over powered, it's their squad that's undergeared.
Are you seriously pretending that you can only get speed mods once you have your character at max gear and full omegas?
Umm, no. That's just the order I put it in just because. Gear/omegas/mods. Would you rather me have said "Wouldn't it be better for players to get mods/omegas/maxed gear instead. That was just some random order while I was typing.
the mod speed is o.p if you don t own one yourself... once you do its balanced just like the og mods ..cry me a river i earned 100 mods no speed mod yet
Yeah, I can see speed being the best. I outfitted Poggle so he has three more speed than Jawa Engineer. Now Poggle Foss first, then JE, and all of my now super power super fast droids before the opponent takes his first turn. It decimates every team so far except for Rex leads with full tanks.
"When the dust settles, the only thing living in this world will be metal."
It's not so much the fact that +30 speed is such a game breaking change, it's the fact that a full team with +30 speed (minimum) is a problem unless you have the same, especially when you put these mods on characters that are already a hot topic for nerf debates (rey for example). It's because these mods that may look like they give you the chance to make mediocre characters viable in a competitive arena, are the same mods being applied to already top tier characters pushing them even further ahead, leaving behind your mediocre toons exactly where they were before... There's no such thing as "balance" when it comes to mods because there are zero limitations on who can use them, how does no one realise that?!?
Yea they may have added an extra layer of customisation but we are already starting to see the 'meta' setup to go with and the maximum % that the mods can give isn't quite enough to give a 'borderline' character that push to be able to compete with the more popular meta choice.
The only primary stats that make a rather noticeable difference at the moment are potency (24%) speed (+30) and protection on tanks (23.5%)
I beat a team yesterday with all +30 speed receivers. They were Old Ben(L), Rey, Rg, Sth and Qgj. The only thing speed did was allowed them to go before me. Once I landed my stuns, killed Rey, removed taunts, and got my offense up, it was all down hill from there. Speed didn't help them. I'm a strong believer in once you get max gear, omega abilities and actually understand the games fundamentals then all that's left to do is to execute your plan to secure the W.
Unless toons can one shot your team like back in the days of Poe/droid teams..then speed isn't really that big of a deal like people are making out to be.
This. Plus you can go get your own speed mods for every toon, which puts the speed rankings where it was before mods. There are legitimate problems in this game, but this isn't one of them.
Getting your own speed mods is insanely RNG dependent, more so than anything else the game has seen. That is the root of the issue. And please, some of you must realize that there are a lot of people who play this game who are not at Max gear and fully omega'd. You can't ignore the balance of the game for 99% of the players.
Ok, so what is the real problem here? The people who are not fully maxed in gear and omegas? Or is it the speed mods? Cause if your're squad is not in maxed gear, omegas and speed mods and you're fighting maxed toons with omegas and speed mods is it really necessary to want speed mods nerfed? Wouldn't it be better for those players to get maxed gear/omegas and the mods of your choice so the playing field would be more even? Why nerf something when all that needs to be done is spending time on your squad to get them better? That can be said about anything on this game. For example, people want certain toons nerfed, when all the while it's not the toon that's over powered, it's their squad that's undergeared.
Are you seriously pretending that you can only get speed mods once you have your character at max gear and full omegas?
Umm, no. That's just the order I put it in just because. Gear/omegas/mods. Would you rather me have said "Wouldn't it be better for players to get mods/omegas/maxed gear instead. That was just some random order while I was typing.
Anyways you avoided my question.
Okay, I'll address that.
Opponent X has the same gear and characters as myself. He has 3 +30 speed mods. I have three +5.88% offense mods.
We are in similar guilds. We see gear in shipments at a similar rate. There is nothing arbitrarily stopping him from progressing his gear. We continue to progress our gear at the same rate. He continues to have 3 x 30 speed mods that I do not. This continues to be a significant advantage in arena.
Have you done the math on how long it would take for me to find three +30 speed mods to catch my team up with his? To find a specific stat, the correct slot, five starred mod, it takes 18 days worth of cantina energy (with one refresh daily) exclusively dedicated to the single cantina challenge node, on average. This is for one mod, with no regard for quality or secondary stats. Assuming I get the same quality and secondary stats, and that Opponent X is happy with his mods and is no longer farming them, it will take 56 days (on average) of absolutely nothing but the cantina challenge node. Meanwhile, if opponent X is indeed done with farming mods, this give him either access to more characters to switch his team up via cantina, or an extra refresh per day to farm Stun cuffs to get ahead in the gear race.
Someone grabbing a few 30 speed mods (either via "precrafting" or via insane RNG now) has huge, long term ramifications in arena. Even more so if you are both in the top 5 traditionally, where every day that passes without you being able to get over this (now snowballing) speed mod advantage, he is picking up more crystals to spend on more refreshes or raid gear, to get further ahead and stay further ahead.
There is no reason for one or two specific mods to be the best by orders of magnitude. It adds far too much RNG into the game, removes any actual option for customization (the entire point of mods, as far I remember), and does nothing interesting to the meta. It benefits the game in no way. If the other stats on the Arrow mod were as good as speed, we would have a more balanced arena, less RNG variance, and actual choices to make with our characters.
Thirty speed vs. 5.88% offense is not a choice. Thirty speed, on Rey, adds the same amount of DPS over a match as 430 offense, in addition to the benefit of moving first. People were shocked by the old offense value of 765, but that was nerfed (for Rey in this example) by 82%. The old Speed mod added 59, but was only nerfed by 48%.
If we want choices, or if we want customization, we need the mods to be on the same power level. If speed sticks at 30, offense should be 430. If offense sticks at 5.88%, then speed should be 10 or 11 for a rank 5 mod. If you want me to go through these numbers for some other common characters to find a more ideal "consensus" number, I'd be glad to. But assuming people will continue to use the best character in the game, and assuming that EA does not care about balance to the point of making mods that scale inversely, I think this is a safe example to work with.
And just to add for some other characters who are exceedingly common in arena. Numbers in brackets are the percentage added offense that would equal the damage output of +30 speed.
Qui Gon Jin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +432 offense. (20.7%)
Geonosian Soldier: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +446 offense. (19.5%)
Jedi Knight Anakin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +469 offense. (20.8%)
IG-88: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +595 offense. (24.8%)
And for some characters less used:
Lando Calrissian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +535 offense. (26.1)
Jawa: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +502 offense. (22.6%)
Jedi Knight Guardian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +715 offense. (35.3%)
Now these are basic numbers, not taking into account things like extra crit damage, common team compositions (JE + 88, etc), going first, or the fact that a characters cooldowns would be available more often with speed, but it should be clear that +430 offense would be a conservative estimate as to how you could provide sufficient competition for the added DPS that +30 speed provides. In all likelyhood, given how much more frequently special attacks would need to be available for characters like QGJ, GS, Anakin, Rey, etc, you would need to go significantly higher than +430 offense to achieve a balance where there was a real tradeoff to be made.
Edit: One more difference. Stuns and Turn Meter reduction are notably less effective at reducing the damage output of a Speed modded character than that of a similarly powered Offense modded character.
Conclusion: Speed heavily overperforms other stats in terms of raw damage output, in addition to having other benefits that make it harder to reduce that DPS. In order to provide real variety and functional choice/customization, either Speed needs to be reduced to about a third of its current number, or other mod stats need to be increased by a factor of 4 or greater.
I have 0 speed primary stat arrow mods, but perhaps the solution is to add a significant portion of flat stat increase to all arrow mods.
I think it would be in line with the original vision of character customization, and allow units to bolster their strong point, or shore up a weak point, without the excessive growth that was seen on mods first deployment.
In other words, open up the full catalogue of potential stats on solely arrow mods again.
It's ridiculously overpowered. When you have a 1dot mod that's favorable to ANY other 5 dot MAXED mod, that stat is overpowered. Just drop it as a possible primary.
And the set bonus is still a bit high also. Speed is possibly THE main stat you need to consider when doing character balance. Who allowed who to turn that over to us players in the first place?
Well I don't know what else there is to say then. I can beat Rey, some other people can't. I can finish Gws everyday, some other people can't. Now I will add speed mods to that list. Yesterday I beat a team that had all plus 30 speed receivers, and one person I know can't. Guess I'm just really good at this game. Cause I don't have problems playing this like most people do.
It's a shame EA has made everyone so apathetic towards this game. If you weren't open to having an opinion changed, why not just say "git gud scrub" from the beginning?
It's ridiculously overpowered. When you have a 1dot mod that's favorable to ANY other 5 dot MAXED mod, that stat is overpowered. Just drop it as a possible primary.
And the set bonus is still a bit high also. Speed is possibly THE main stat you need to consider when doing character balance. Who allowed who to turn that over to us players in the first place?
Yes, speed as the primary stat (and to a lesser extent crit damage and potency) outperforms the other mod stats.
However, in my opinion, nerfing it is a very bad idea, as people who have spent time and resources on obtaining these mods will be ripped off again. A lot of people have already quit over the mod nerf perceived bait and switch... if they nerf this again, a lot more who r already on the fence will quit.
Buffing the other stats will be a much better approach, as there will be a perception of value gained. History speaks for itself - look how well the anakin buff was received! Compare that to the poor reception of every other nerf they have done, starting all the way back to bariss.
If there is concern that there will be disparity between f2p and p2p over buffing mods - then have a single day where people can farm the mods at 100% drop rate. Make it so that players can activate this day whenever they like, so people who are on holidays won't miss out. F2p can choose to save up energy and activate the farming day when ready, while p2p can activate earlier if they wish.
Anway, I really think that nerfing should be strongly avoided. I am sure everyone would agree that we prefer our investments to gain value, rather than lose it.
Yes, speed as the primary stat (and to a lesser extent crit damage and potency) outperforms the other mod stats.
However, in my opinion, nerfing it is a very bad idea, as people who have spent time and resources on obtaining these mods will be ripped off again. A lot of people have already quit over the mod nerf perceived bait and switch... if they nerf this again, a lot more who r already on the fence will quit.
Buffing the other stats will be a much better approach, as there will be a perception of value gained. History speaks for itself - look how well the anakin buff was received! Compare that to the poor reception of every other nerf they have done, starting all the way back to bariss.
If there is concern that there will be disparity between f2p and p2p over buffing mods - then have a single day where people can farm the mods at 100% drop rate. Make it so that players can activate this day whenever they like, so people who are on holidays won't miss out. F2p can choose to save up energy and activate the farming day when ready, while p2p can activate earlier if they wish.
Anway, I really think that nerfing should be strongly avoided. I am sure everyone would agree that we prefer our investments to gain value, rather than lose it.
Normally I'd agree with you, but they said specifically there would be 3 rebalance patches, and we've only had 2. Everyone on this thread should know better than to invest in mods at this point.
Of course most players don't read these forums but they've made it quite clear they don't care.
Yes, speed as the primary stat (and to a lesser extent crit damage and potency) outperforms the other mod stats.
However, in my opinion, nerfing it is a very bad idea, as people who have spent time and resources on obtaining these mods will be ripped off again. A lot of people have already quit over the mod nerf perceived bait and switch... if they nerf this again, a lot more who r already on the fence will quit.
Buffing the other stats will be a much better approach, as there will be a perception of value gained. History speaks for itself - look how well the anakin buff was received! Compare that to the poor reception of every other nerf they have done, starting all the way back to bariss.
If there is concern that there will be disparity between f2p and p2p over buffing mods - then have a single day where people can farm the mods at 100% drop rate. Make it so that players can activate this day whenever they like, so people who are on holidays won't miss out. F2p can choose to save up energy and activate the farming day when ready, while p2p can activate earlier if they wish.
Anway, I really think that nerfing should be strongly avoided. I am sure everyone would agree that we prefer our investments to gain value, rather than lose it.
Normally I'd agree with you, but they said specifically there would be 3 rebalance patches, and we've only had 2. Everyone on this thread should know better than to invest in mods at this point.
Of course most players don't read these forums but they've made it quite clear they don't care.
They have also said they will fix Teebo, and add ships. And how long after they said they would fix stunned characters being able to dodge before they did it? Not investing in mods because they will change sometimes between tomorrow and December is not really feasible if you want to stay even remotely competitive.
In the game of RNGsus, getting the 5 dot healthSpeed mod with primary of +30 speed is hitting the jackpot!!!
Fixed.
Currently Have Rey at 234 Speed without the Set bonus of Speed, can't wait to add those 16 Speed to Hit 250.
Hmm. I would rather add 15% or crit chance with 34% crit damage, triangle, than add another 16 speed.
Depends on your set up and strategy. Extra speed like this allows Rey to hit first and gain foresight at the expense of some damage. It's not like Rey's first attack is likely to one-shoot someone anyway, even if you do have all the damage mods. The top speed also allows Rey to go before Droid JE teams (JE can easily reach 230-240 speed with 1* mods) which can usually kill Rey before she gets an action. If your shard doesn't run droid teams, then you don't really need to worry about maxing out her speed.
They groaned, they stirred, they all uprose, Nor spoke, nor moved their eyes; It had been strange, even in a dream, To have seen those dead men rise.
In the game of RNGsus, getting the 5 dot healthSpeed mod with primary of +30 speed is hitting the jackpot!!!
Fixed.
Currently Have Rey at 234 Speed without the Set bonus of Speed, can't wait to add those 16 Speed to Hit 250.
Hmm. I would rather add 15% or crit chance with 34% crit damage, triangle, than add another 16 speed.
Depends on your set up and strategy. Extra speed like this allows Rey to hit first and gain foresight at the expense of some damage. It's not like Rey's first attack is likely to one-shoot someone anyway, even if you do have all the damage mods. The top speed also allows Rey to go before Droid JE teams (JE can easily reach 230-240 speed with 1* mods) which can usually kill Rey before she gets an action. If your shard doesn't run droid teams, then you don't really need to worry about maxing out her speed.
I will agree it is all situational and lineup based, and that was my point, and I believe one of the points of mods. Jackpot for one of a 5 dot speed mod with speed primay is great, for me I would rather have crit chance up than an added 16 speed.
My leader board runs plenty of Droid teams and my maxed out Rey rides the bench, only use her in GW where I don't need the speed bonus.
Stop asking for them to nerf things that people have already invested in. It ticks people off. When people get ticked off enough they stop playing and there will be a handful of people asking for nerfs...far fewer than the number needed for the game to last. Lots of spenders left in the past couple weeks. It's not a good thing. Let the game recover.
You're going to assume completely wrong then. I hate **** like this. New game requirement I had to waste my credits on... not a fun option I choose to use.
It's not so much the fact that +30 speed is such a game breaking change, it's the fact that a full team with +30 speed (minimum) is a problem unless you have the same, especially when you put these mods on characters that are already a hot topic for nerf debates (rey for example). It's because these mods that may look like they give you the chance to make mediocre characters viable in a competitive arena, are the same mods being applied to already top tier characters pushing them even further ahead, leaving behind your mediocre toons exactly where they were before... There's no such thing as "balance" when it comes to mods because there are zero limitations on who can use them, how does no one realise that?!?
Yea they may have added an extra layer of customisation but we are already starting to see the 'meta' setup to go with and the maximum % that the mods can give isn't quite enough to give a 'borderline' character that push to be able to compete with the more popular meta choice.
The only primary stats that make a rather noticeable difference at the moment are potency (24%) speed (+30) and protection on tanks (23.5%)
I beat a team yesterday with all +30 speed receivers. They were Old Ben(L), Rey, Rg, Sth and Qgj. The only thing speed did was allowed them to go before me. Once I landed my stuns, killed Rey, removed taunts, and got my offense up, it was all down hill from there. Speed didn't help them. I'm a strong believer in once you get max gear, omega abilities and actually understand the games fundamentals then all that's left to do is to execute your plan to secure the W.
Unless toons can one shot your team like back in the days of Poe/droid teams..then speed isn't really that big of a deal like people are making out to be.
This. Plus you can go get your own speed mods for every toon, which puts the speed rankings where it was before mods. There are legitimate problems in this game, but this isn't one of them.
Getting your own speed mods is insanely RNG dependent, more so than anything else the game has seen. That is the root of the issue. And please, some of you must realize that there are a lot of people who play this game who are not at Max gear and fully omega'd. You can't ignore the balance of the game for 99% of the players.
Ok, so what is the real problem here? The people who are not fully maxed in gear and omegas? Or is it the speed mods? Cause if your're squad is not in maxed gear, omegas and speed mods and you're fighting maxed toons with omegas and speed mods is it really necessary to want speed mods nerfed? Wouldn't it be better for those players to get maxed gear/omegas and the mods of your choice so the playing field would be more even? Why nerf something when all that needs to be done is spending time on your squad to get them better? That can be said about anything on this game. For example, people want certain toons nerfed, when all the while it's not the toon that's over powered, it's their squad that's undergeared.
Are you seriously pretending that you can only get speed mods once you have your character at max gear and full omegas?
Umm, no. That's just the order I put it in just because. Gear/omegas/mods. Would you rather me have said "Wouldn't it be better for players to get mods/omegas/maxed gear instead. That was just some random order while I was typing.
Anyways you avoided my question.
Okay, I'll address that.
Opponent X has the same gear and characters as myself. He has 3 +30 speed mods. I have three +5.88% offense mods.
We are in similar guilds. We see gear in shipments at a similar rate. There is nothing arbitrarily stopping him from progressing his gear. We continue to progress our gear at the same rate. He continues to have 3 x 30 speed mods that I do not. This continues to be a significant advantage in arena.
Have you done the math on how long it would take for me to find three +30 speed mods to catch my team up with his? To find a specific stat, the correct slot, five starred mod, it takes 18 days worth of cantina energy (with one refresh daily) exclusively dedicated to the single cantina challenge node, on average. This is for one mod, with no regard for quality or secondary stats. Assuming I get the same quality and secondary stats, and that Opponent X is happy with his mods and is no longer farming them, it will take 56 days (on average) of absolutely nothing but the cantina challenge node. Meanwhile, if opponent X is indeed done with farming mods, this give him either access to more characters to switch his team up via cantina, or an extra refresh per day to farm Stun cuffs to get ahead in the gear race.
Someone grabbing a few 30 speed mods (either via "precrafting" or via insane RNG now) has huge, long term ramifications in arena. Even more so if you are both in the top 5 traditionally, where every day that passes without you being able to get over this (now snowballing) speed mod advantage, he is picking up more crystals to spend on more refreshes or raid gear, to get further ahead and stay further ahead.
There is no reason for one or two specific mods to be the best by orders of magnitude. It adds far too much RNG into the game, removes any actual option for customization (the entire point of mods, as far I remember), and does nothing interesting to the meta. It benefits the game in no way. If the other stats on the Arrow mod were as good as speed, we would have a more balanced arena, less RNG variance, and actual choices to make with our characters.
Thirty speed vs. 5.88% offense is not a choice. Thirty speed, on Rey, adds the same amount of DPS over a match as 430 offense, in addition to the benefit of moving first. People were shocked by the old offense value of 765, but that was nerfed (for Rey in this example) by 82%. The old Speed mod added 59, but was only nerfed by 48%.
If we want choices, or if we want customization, we need the mods to be on the same power level. If speed sticks at 30, offense should be 430. If offense sticks at 5.88%, then speed should be 10 or 11 for a rank 5 mod. If you want me to go through these numbers for some other common characters to find a more ideal "consensus" number, I'd be glad to. But assuming people will continue to use the best character in the game, and assuming that EA does not care about balance to the point of making mods that scale inversely, I think this is a safe example to work with.
And just to add for some other characters who are exceedingly common in arena. Numbers in brackets are the percentage added offense that would equal the damage output of +30 speed.
Qui Gon Jin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +432 offense. (20.7%)
Geonosian Soldier: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +446 offense. (19.5%)
Jedi Knight Anakin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +469 offense. (20.8%)
IG-88: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +595 offense. (24.8%)
And for some characters less used:
Lando Calrissian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +535 offense. (26.1)
Jawa: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +502 offense. (22.6%)
Jedi Knight Guardian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +715 offense. (35.3%)
Now these are basic numbers, not taking into account things like extra crit damage, common team compositions (JE + 88, etc), going first, or the fact that a characters cooldowns would be available more often with speed, but it should be clear that +430 offense would be a conservative estimate as to how you could provide sufficient competition for the added DPS that +30 speed provides. In all likelyhood, given how much more frequently special attacks would need to be available for characters like QGJ, GS, Anakin, Rey, etc, you would need to go significantly higher than +430 offense to achieve a balance where there was a real tradeoff to be made.
Edit: One more difference. Stuns and Turn Meter reduction are notably less effective at reducing the damage output of a Speed modded character than that of a similarly powered Offense modded character.
Conclusion: Speed heavily overperforms other stats in terms of raw damage output, in addition to having other benefits that make it harder to reduce that DPS. In order to provide real variety and functional choice/customization, either Speed needs to be reduced to about a third of its current number, or other mod stats need to be increased by a factor of 4 or greater.
I wish I can upvote this 5000 times per day.
It's just pre-crafting 2.0.
I also keep running mod battles (and have stopped farming shards I absolutely need, because I even more absolutely need mods to be competitive - brilliant idea CG), and I get about 1 mod every 6-8 games. Of course it is always a stat you don't want, and in the super rare case it IS a stat you want, when you level it, you get 4 secondary stats that are the absolutely wrong match for what you'd need.
Don't really get the big deal about these speed mods. All of the attackers seem to hit softer when they have this on. And i still win against teams that have speed mods all over.
This is a have-and-have-not issue. Time fixes this. Like all the younger accounts that hit the forums to say "OMG, Rey is OP" because they don't have her yet....then they play long enough to get her and they're all using her, and their tone changes. There's just enough whales that got ahead quick, that the have-nots really feeling it right now. We can all get those mods, just gotta keep farming.
This is a have-and-have-not issue. Time fixes this. Like all the younger accounts that hit the forums to say "OMG, Rey is OP" because they don't have her yet....then they play long enough to get her and they're all using her, and their tone changes. There's just enough whales that got ahead quick, that the have-nots really feeling it right now. We can all get those mods, just gotta keep farming.
Oh my holy God... for the 4th time, the fact that your "fix" is "You just have to wait to get it too." is EXACTLY the point. It's not an optional upgrade if everyone who has it uses it over any other possible option in that slot.
Replies
No, not "this."
"This" along with your reply are exactly why the BUFF was too large, and needs to be reduced. As most keep saying... "well just go get that speed mod also, then it's back in balance." Ooooooh, wonderful! So what you want is a completely pointless credit sink that maintains status quo! Awesome!
Given 30 speed, vs ANYTHING ELSE available in that slot... NO ONE is choosing something else. The primary speed stat is too high. Period. I understand you can't see the inevitable result yet, but some of us can and know it's going to be extremely bad for the game.
As of now... it's asking for the reduction of an excessive buff. Not calling for a nerf.
Umm, no. That's just the order I put it in just because. Gear/omegas/mods. Would you rather me have said "Wouldn't it be better for players to get mods/omegas/maxed gear instead. That was just some random order while I was typing.
Anyways you avoided my question.
Okay, I'll address that.
Opponent X has the same gear and characters as myself. He has 3 +30 speed mods. I have three +5.88% offense mods.
We are in similar guilds. We see gear in shipments at a similar rate. There is nothing arbitrarily stopping him from progressing his gear. We continue to progress our gear at the same rate. He continues to have 3 x 30 speed mods that I do not. This continues to be a significant advantage in arena.
Have you done the math on how long it would take for me to find three +30 speed mods to catch my team up with his? To find a specific stat, the correct slot, five starred mod, it takes 18 days worth of cantina energy (with one refresh daily) exclusively dedicated to the single cantina challenge node, on average. This is for one mod, with no regard for quality or secondary stats. Assuming I get the same quality and secondary stats, and that Opponent X is happy with his mods and is no longer farming them, it will take 56 days (on average) of absolutely nothing but the cantina challenge node. Meanwhile, if opponent X is indeed done with farming mods, this give him either access to more characters to switch his team up via cantina, or an extra refresh per day to farm Stun cuffs to get ahead in the gear race.
Someone grabbing a few 30 speed mods (either via "precrafting" or via insane RNG now) has huge, long term ramifications in arena. Even more so if you are both in the top 5 traditionally, where every day that passes without you being able to get over this (now snowballing) speed mod advantage, he is picking up more crystals to spend on more refreshes or raid gear, to get further ahead and stay further ahead.
There is no reason for one or two specific mods to be the best by orders of magnitude. It adds far too much RNG into the game, removes any actual option for customization (the entire point of mods, as far I remember), and does nothing interesting to the meta. It benefits the game in no way. If the other stats on the Arrow mod were as good as speed, we would have a more balanced arena, less RNG variance, and actual choices to make with our characters.
Thirty speed vs. 5.88% offense is not a choice. Thirty speed, on Rey, adds the same amount of DPS over a match as 430 offense, in addition to the benefit of moving first. People were shocked by the old offense value of 765, but that was nerfed (for Rey in this example) by 82%. The old Speed mod added 59, but was only nerfed by 48%.
If we want choices, or if we want customization, we need the mods to be on the same power level. If speed sticks at 30, offense should be 430. If offense sticks at 5.88%, then speed should be 10 or 11 for a rank 5 mod. If you want me to go through these numbers for some other common characters to find a more ideal "consensus" number, I'd be glad to. But assuming people will continue to use the best character in the game, and assuming that EA does not care about balance to the point of making mods that scale inversely, I think this is a safe example to work with.
And just to add for some other characters who are exceedingly common in arena. Numbers in brackets are the percentage added offense that would equal the damage output of +30 speed.
Qui Gon Jin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +432 offense. (20.7%)
Geonosian Soldier: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +446 offense. (19.5%)
Jedi Knight Anakin: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +469 offense. (20.8%)
IG-88: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +595 offense. (24.8%)
And for some characters less used:
Lando Calrissian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +535 offense. (26.1)
Jawa: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +502 offense. (22.6%)
Jedi Knight Guardian: In order to add the same DPS over the course of a match as 30 speed, you would need +715 offense. (35.3%)
Now these are basic numbers, not taking into account things like extra crit damage, common team compositions (JE + 88, etc), going first, or the fact that a characters cooldowns would be available more often with speed, but it should be clear that +430 offense would be a conservative estimate as to how you could provide sufficient competition for the added DPS that +30 speed provides. In all likelyhood, given how much more frequently special attacks would need to be available for characters like QGJ, GS, Anakin, Rey, etc, you would need to go significantly higher than +430 offense to achieve a balance where there was a real tradeoff to be made.
Edit: One more difference. Stuns and Turn Meter reduction are notably less effective at reducing the damage output of a Speed modded character than that of a similarly powered Offense modded character.
Conclusion: Speed heavily overperforms other stats in terms of raw damage output, in addition to having other benefits that make it harder to reduce that DPS. In order to provide real variety and functional choice/customization, either Speed needs to be reduced to about a third of its current number, or other mod stats need to be increased by a factor of 4 or greater.
Currently Have Rey at 234 Speed without the Set bonus of Speed, can't wait to add those 16 Speed to Hit 250.
I think it would be in line with the original vision of character customization, and allow units to bolster their strong point, or shore up a weak point, without the excessive growth that was seen on mods first deployment.
In other words, open up the full catalogue of potential stats on solely arrow mods again.
Just get your own and you'll realize it's not overpowered. At least that's the argument for Rey, should work here too.
Well I don't know what else there is to say then. I can beat Rey, some other people can't. I can finish Gws everyday, some other people can't. Now I will add speed mods to that list. Yesterday I beat a team that had all plus 30 speed receivers, and one person I know can't. Guess I'm just really good at this game. Cause I don't have problems playing this like most people do.
Good luck w/ your endeavors.
Hmm. I would rather add 15% or crit chance with 34% crit damage, triangle, than add another 16 speed.
Getting 2 of them near back to back is what made me come here. Some of us care about the game over greedily protecting our mods that shouldn't exist.
However, in my opinion, nerfing it is a very bad idea, as people who have spent time and resources on obtaining these mods will be ripped off again. A lot of people have already quit over the mod nerf perceived bait and switch... if they nerf this again, a lot more who r already on the fence will quit.
Buffing the other stats will be a much better approach, as there will be a perception of value gained. History speaks for itself - look how well the anakin buff was received! Compare that to the poor reception of every other nerf they have done, starting all the way back to bariss.
If there is concern that there will be disparity between f2p and p2p over buffing mods - then have a single day where people can farm the mods at 100% drop rate. Make it so that players can activate this day whenever they like, so people who are on holidays won't miss out. F2p can choose to save up energy and activate the farming day when ready, while p2p can activate earlier if they wish.
Anway, I really think that nerfing should be strongly avoided. I am sure everyone would agree that we prefer our investments to gain value, rather than lose it.
We need an increase on everything but speed. Not a reduction in speed.
Normally I'd agree with you, but they said specifically there would be 3 rebalance patches, and we've only had 2. Everyone on this thread should know better than to invest in mods at this point.
Of course most players don't read these forums but they've made it quite clear they don't care.
They have also said they will fix Teebo, and add ships. And how long after they said they would fix stunned characters being able to dodge before they did it? Not investing in mods because they will change sometimes between tomorrow and December is not really feasible if you want to stay even remotely competitive.
Depends on your set up and strategy. Extra speed like this allows Rey to hit first and gain foresight at the expense of some damage. It's not like Rey's first attack is likely to one-shoot someone anyway, even if you do have all the damage mods. The top speed also allows Rey to go before Droid JE teams (JE can easily reach 230-240 speed with 1* mods) which can usually kill Rey before she gets an action. If your shard doesn't run droid teams, then you don't really need to worry about maxing out her speed.
I will agree it is all situational and lineup based, and that was my point, and I believe one of the points of mods. Jackpot for one of a 5 dot speed mod with speed primay is great, for me I would rather have crit chance up than an added 16 speed.
My leader board runs plenty of Droid teams and my maxed out Rey rides the bench, only use her in GW where I don't need the speed bonus.
You're going to assume completely wrong then. I hate **** like this. New game requirement I had to waste my credits on... not a fun option I choose to use.
I wish I can upvote this 5000 times per day.
It's just pre-crafting 2.0.
I also keep running mod battles (and have stopped farming shards I absolutely need, because I even more absolutely need mods to be competitive - brilliant idea CG), and I get about 1 mod every 6-8 games. Of course it is always a stat you don't want, and in the super rare case it IS a stat you want, when you level it, you get 4 secondary stats that are the absolutely wrong match for what you'd need.
Oh my holy God... for the 4th time, the fact that your "fix" is "You just have to wait to get it too." is EXACTLY the point. It's not an optional upgrade if everyone who has it uses it over any other possible option in that slot.