So what's the verdict on the Cody changes I don't have him rdy to use yet but curious of what everyone thinks now that they changed things up a little.
Now that you say that Iv noticed fives assist dosnt seem to be working past few weeks. I chalked it up to the Strength stat fix but maybe it's a bug. Anyone else seeing this issue
Wow, I just noticed this thread. For those of us with Cody we should compile our findings from this update and then one of us post in the Cody thread that Kozispoon started. I've kind of been doing it to this point, so I don't mind continuing.
I ran 15 matches and most of my GW with Clones today and here's my initial thoughts. 15 matches is only a small sample but I'm not sure what else to test at this point; I'll try and be concise with what I see.
1. Cody's Leader: I think the +defense is fairly legit. Rey is still very prominent on my server and her leverage only takes 30% to 40% of Cody's protection out. Unfortunately I watched her hit Rex at 75% protection with FOB and kill him, more or less a 1-shot. Also, to guarantee Cody doesn't get destroyed, it seems 3 to 4 Clones is required to make the leader ability good. Which leaves little room for other characters like RG or JKA.
2. 212th Attack: I really like this ability because aside from the damage it gives the Clones some "tempo" (for a lack of better words). Cody and Sarge gain TM so they go again quickly plus Sarge usually gets offense-up from this. EA updated Cody's AI to prioritize this attack now, which is awesome.
- Cooldown & Penalty: The cooldown is better but I think it can be dropped at least one more turn. There are many characters with assist attacks that don't have such a severe penalty and on a short cooldown. Look at the re-work with Biggs and Wedge, between the multi-assists I've seen 30K damage easily pop-up. In once match with all Clones they actually failed to remove all of Rey's TM.
3. AT-TE Cannon: The damage isn't bad from it but the stun is not the best ability. Minus 5's, survivability is fairly big problem for the Clones; I would really like to see the AOE either inflict Offense Down or give the Clones some kind of TM bonus.
Clones Overall
- Strengths: Good synergy between characters, abilities to gain TM, can hurt opponent's TM
- Weaknesses: Survivability, average un-modded total health is approx 26K not counting 5's or Cody. Damage is not strong so if they get behind they really can't catch-up. They really require a Taunting tank, so who do you cut when each Clone adds a piece to their synergy. It's like a basketball team, they each have a specific position though Rex can play point-guard or shooting guard.
1. Rex: Rex really needs his AI to prioritize Squad Discipline on defense. If he gets ability blocked then the entire squad is screwed. Not to mention the 60% TM gain really gets the squad going.
2. Echo: Not sure where to begin. The Clones really need this passive assist from him and his debuff is greatly needed and the AOE aspect of it is awesome.
- Assist: restrict his ability to assist to Clones and reduce his damage penalty or keep the penalty and have it add TM to other Clones or something.
- AOE: Not sure if this is a possible fix but he needs to not use it when Foresight pops; if he could hold it for Taunt that would be ideal. The cooldown needs to be reduced by at least 1 turn, if not 2.
3. Sarge: Probably the most well-balanced of the group, don't think any changes needed here.
4. CT-5555's: His double-tap is sweet and an Omega'd assist that calls another Clone is pretty strong. Because the Clones NEED a taunt, I would love to see a passive taunt that is restricted to Clones added to 5's.
5. If Cody is to remain the leader, his lead really only works when there is basically a full Clone squad but again; the Clones NEED a tank so which Clone do you drop? Secondly, his total health is horrible and he can't be played outside of the leadership position, which unfortunately reduces the effectiveness of JKA to lead the Clones and incorporate Cody. Lastly, his defense gain for leader should apply to all Clones to improve their survivability, though that could be OP for 5's. Perhaps make his leader a passive ability and do something different with the lead, % crit gain and... x% TM gain on crit?
The best squad I can run right now is a JKA lead, with Rex, 5's, SunFac, and RG. I've tried Sarge with some benefit. I can run a full Clone squad on offense against many squads but against squads that have JKA, 5's, Rey, and 2 tanks or even JKA, 5's, Aayla, Rey it's almost impossible to win it seem with all the counters.
I think the Clones can be a competitive squad with some changes, so in short here are my suggestions,
1. Cody:
- 212th Attack: Reduce cooldown by 1-turn and reduce damage penalty
- At-TE Cannon: inflict offense down for each crit instead of 1 stun or give TM to Clones
- Increase health about 30%
- Make leader +defense ability a passive
- Change leader to be +crit & possibly +TM
2. Rex
- Update AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
3. Echo
- Assist: Reduce damage penalty
- AOE: Restrict use to Taunt for the AI
4. CT-5555: Add a passive taunt that is restricted to Clones only.
Edit: Try not to be too hard on Kozi with this update. He did say it was a "soft" update, so they may have more in the works but they wanted to at least give us something rather than wait longer. The defense gain on lead really isn't bad.
Defence buff puts him closer to the realm of usable but I still worry about his ability to be one shot. 212th is honestly pretty good but due to dodge being so prevalent I find it on cooldown for 4 turns far too often. His Cannon... I never use. Unless I'm trying to stun Ben before a mind trick relying on 2 crits to stun a singular target is not something I'd like to do when his basic hits harder and can grant lots of TM for another use of 212th. Aayla crit stuns and it sure as hell ain't a 4 turn cooldown. The ability needs multi effects on crit like dengar has. Offence down would be a good fit but even if it buffed clones or multi stunned on crit enemies. It needs SOMETTHING to make me want to press it to aid my squad instead of doing basic for TM gain.
A taunting 5s would make him op I feel if it were on 5s Kit. Maybe a tie in to leader or a passive on Cody that referances specific chars like Biggs and wedge. "If a clone drops below 50% hp CT-5555 will taunt for one turn." Just something to make me want to pick him as leader over Anakin and to give an all clone squad some defence against being focused.
Defence buff puts him closer to the realm of usable but I still worry about his ability to be one shot. 212th is honestly pretty good but due to dodge being so prevalent I find it on cooldown for 4 turns far too often. His Cannon... I never use. Unless I'm trying to stun Ben before a mind trick relying on 2 crits to stun a singular target is not something I'd like to do when his basic hits harder and can grant lots of TM for another use of 212th. Aayla crit stuns and it sure as hell ain't a 4 turn cooldown. The ability needs multi effects on crit like dengar has. Offence down would be a good fit but even if it buffed clones or multi stunned on crit enemies. It needs SOMETTHING to make me want to press it to aid my squad instead of doing basic for TM gain.
A taunting 5s would make him op I feel if it were on 5s Kit. Maybe a tie in to leader or a passive on Cody that referances specific chars like Biggs and wedge. "If a clone drops below 50% hp CT-5555 will taunt for one turn." Just something to make me want to pick him as leader over Anakin and to give an all clone squad some defence against being focused.
The Clones desperately need that Taunt and it definitely should be restricted to Clones or it would be too OP. I dont know how to work it but they need something.
What about his Leader? To me the defense part should be passive if they dont want to increase his HP and do something different with his leader.
I run Rex (L), 5's, Anakin, Rey & Sun Fac. Usually stay in top 10. Have Echo maxed and modded but probably not the right mods. He doesn't hit very hard. I think I need to get him some crit damage mods. Would love to swap Rey out to try something different but I drop pretty quick in Arena when I do.
Welcome to the club m8. Ya Rey is hard to argue with... But I'm going to.. Clone sarge all the way XD. He earns his place on my team and I've got a really good Rey. His TM gain and TM Down on enemy is utility Rey lacks.. She has more raw dps but I'm a big supporter of a speed modded Sargent. He can be pretty crazy. Underestimated and as such he doesn't get focused much. 10-11k crit on basic, 8-9 on special. 14k hp 20k prot, 143 speed and a casual 50% crit chance before passive
If you can get the crit damage you can boost him to crazy levels. Speed is nice but is second to either more crits or bigger crits. I have only the triangle 36% crit boost and under Ani lead I've seen my sarge hit 15k. He defiantly needs the omegad to be standout but once you've got them he's earned his place on my team time and time again. With Rex lead you can face a droid team, they go, HK tosses his nade, crits a bunch... Now suddenly it's your turn and your sarge pops the droids toms down to half. Ruining their all important first round burst
Thanks for the advice. Gonna start looking at Sarge as a sub for Rey. I have 3 people in my arena top 10 that run droids and I don't really have trouble with them with Rex lead. I think Sarge could take a permanent spot on my arena team if I can get him modded correctly.
I definitely would like to see Cody's survivability changes be moved to a passive / non-leader ability. I play him as leader in all of the pve modes (because why not) but when it comes to arena - I can't bring myself to move Rex out of the leader spot leaving Cody still very much "squish. If Cody isn't in the leader spot, he loses his defense, and his low HP impacts his heal from Echo as well as his buff from Rex. I'm loving running all 5 clones at the moment and have been having fun finishing rank 5-20 for the last week or so since I committed to getting their gear up but there are a lot of matches where Cody dies before attacking (despite being my fastest clone at 167 speed) and the remaining 4 get to play underdog. I can't help but feel like Cody should be the one I bench once I finish catching Anakin up >.>
I also LOVE the ideas regarding some sort of way to trigger a taunt on Fives. He literally never takes damage during arena matches (or most other game modes) despite me desperately wishing to be able to capitalize on his "tank" stats. I feel like the AI knows to just save him until the end and kill all the soft targets first. Let the tank...uh....tank
@Darth_Jay77 I love your articulation and your thinking! Awesome post.
I had a few thoughts as well on how to rebalance cody and echo a bit. Overall I align to you on all your suggestions, however I do think that cody needs a more significant change, some kind of a passive that gives further clone synergy for cody as a commander would be great - it feels like he lacks a bit of punch as a faction leader you know? Also echo needs a bit of a rebuff - his nerf was a bit much.
here's my suggestions -
Echo
Was changed to stop an exploit, but now echo does not follow up fives when he counters or when he assists and someone else assists. It felt like he only got changed because of cody so echo got over nerfed. Can we figure out a way to balance this out a bit for echo?
Cody
potentailly replace his pretty sub standard AOE..
Example passives....!
The first time a clone reaches below 50% assign taunt to clone with largest remaining HP pool for 3 turns (Cody is a commander after all!)
When cody dies give all clones counter for two turns (revenge of his death!)
Assign counter attack to random clone on any clone that assists
I had a lot of fun running Rex (L), Cody, echo, 5s and palpatine in GW today.
I also like to run Rex (L), echo, Cody, 5s & sun Fac in arena but I haven't found a clone team that holds rank well on defense.
It is it's just calculated differently than you think. If he does 1000 damage. It will add the 75% to that number then if he so you do 1750 damage. Then it will add offense up (50%) to the ORIGIONAL value and increase the damage by the difference. EX
1000 base
1750 Assist
1500 from offense up
1750-1500 = 250
1750 (first instance + new number, 250 = 2000 damage value on the attack. Then THAT number is compounded by the crit damage value if you score one(base 150%)
So that attack turns out to be 2000 (from both effects modifying the original attack value) 2000 in this example
2000 X 150% = 5000 damage on the attack.
We'd like it to compound multiplicitivly but watch why it dosent
1000+75% 1750 X new modifier of (50%) = 875 more damage
New value of 2625 damage compounded with 150% crit damage
3937.5 damage
If the damage were calculated like this it'd quickly get out of hand with a higher multiplier of crit damage
In a last fun example
Boba fett leader (50% crit damage)
Crit damage set (40% crit damage)
Crit multiplier on triangle mod (36% damage)
Same scenario realistic numbers
You hit for 8000 basic off 5555 assist with offense up with boba lead and those mods( 276% crit damage)
8000
Assist 14000 damage
Offense (50%) added to previous #21000
Crit damage (276%) = 78960 damage
See why this dosent happen lol
Instead each modified the base (same scenario)
8000
Assist (+75%) 14000 still the same
Offense modifies BASE (8000+50%) 12000
Subtract difference to find total additive to attack (14000-12000= 2000)
New attack
10000
Compounded with 276% crit = 37600 damage
Still a good increase in damage but it dosent compound multiplicitivly like you'd think to keep some semblance of sanity in game
(DISCLAIMER)
I may be mistaken but my observations are based on in game experimentation and a similar thread conceding qui gon where the question was raised and although no formula was created this conclusion was reached)
That's crazy glad to know how it works, but the formula and equations behind how fives assist damage is calculated seems irrelevant to the issue. The issue is that his assist damage is noticeable lower from last month to this month from what iv noticed Consistently I would say. Now granted I havnt run any test or real numbers behind this but just wonder if anyone else has run into this and if there was something to it.
@Darth_Jay77 I love your articulation and your thinking! Awesome post.
I had a few thoughts as well on how to rebalance cody and echo a bit. Overall I align to you on all your suggestions, however I do think that cody needs a more significant change, some kind of a passive that gives further clone synergy for cody as a commander would be great - it feels like he lacks a bit of punch as a faction leader you know? Also echo needs a bit of a rebuff - his nerf was a bit much.
here's my suggestions -
Echo
Was changed to stop an exploit, but now echo does not follow up fives when he counters or when he assists and someone else assists. It felt like he only got changed because of cody so echo got over nerfed. Can we figure out a way to balance this out a bit for echo?
Cody
potentailly replace his pretty sub standard AOE..
Example passives....!
The first time a clone reaches below 50% assign taunt to clone with largest remaining HP pool for 3 turns (Cody is a commander after all!)
When cody dies give all clones counter for two turns (revenge of his death!)
Assign counter attack to random clone on any clone that assists
What ya'll think?
Yeah, Cody does need some more work. CG_Kozi did mention that this was only a soft update so I imagine there is more to come still. His HP no doubt needs to come up or he's pigeon-holed into a lead spot and he's really not the best leader for the Clones. I think his leader would be a nice passive ability if they don't increase his HP, he'd be more viable with that at least. The Clones as a whole need some help, namely they need a Taunt or what I'd call a re-direct to 5's. How that works I don't know but they need something because Rey, Biggs & Wedge together can one-shot any of the Clones (not 5's) and 86 and other get pretty darn close.
I've been play-testing some more with the Clones. I think Cody could be a really good character for the Clones if they can somehow either make his leader a passive or extend his defense bonus to the other Clones. It's been fun, strong against some squads and not so great against others (which is fine, can't beat everything). Dropping 20 spots overnight just really sucks and I think some of the adjustments we mentioned in the other thread will make them more competitive.
So Rex never shows up in chromiums anymore? just shop for crystals?
He does but he's one of the rarer drops from Chromiums. If you really want him then spend the crystals on Rex shipments and refreshing those shipments.
Replies
Awful. IMO.
I ran 15 matches and most of my GW with Clones today and here's my initial thoughts. 15 matches is only a small sample but I'm not sure what else to test at this point; I'll try and be concise with what I see.
1. Cody's Leader: I think the +defense is fairly legit. Rey is still very prominent on my server and her leverage only takes 30% to 40% of Cody's protection out. Unfortunately I watched her hit Rex at 75% protection with FOB and kill him, more or less a 1-shot. Also, to guarantee Cody doesn't get destroyed, it seems 3 to 4 Clones is required to make the leader ability good. Which leaves little room for other characters like RG or JKA.
2. 212th Attack: I really like this ability because aside from the damage it gives the Clones some "tempo" (for a lack of better words). Cody and Sarge gain TM so they go again quickly plus Sarge usually gets offense-up from this. EA updated Cody's AI to prioritize this attack now, which is awesome.
- Cooldown & Penalty: The cooldown is better but I think it can be dropped at least one more turn. There are many characters with assist attacks that don't have such a severe penalty and on a short cooldown. Look at the re-work with Biggs and Wedge, between the multi-assists I've seen 30K damage easily pop-up. In once match with all Clones they actually failed to remove all of Rey's TM.
3. AT-TE Cannon: The damage isn't bad from it but the stun is not the best ability. Minus 5's, survivability is fairly big problem for the Clones; I would really like to see the AOE either inflict Offense Down or give the Clones some kind of TM bonus.
Clones Overall
- Strengths: Good synergy between characters, abilities to gain TM, can hurt opponent's TM
- Weaknesses: Survivability, average un-modded total health is approx 26K not counting 5's or Cody. Damage is not strong so if they get behind they really can't catch-up. They really require a Taunting tank, so who do you cut when each Clone adds a piece to their synergy. It's like a basketball team, they each have a specific position though Rex can play point-guard or shooting guard.
1. Rex: Rex really needs his AI to prioritize Squad Discipline on defense. If he gets ability blocked then the entire squad is screwed. Not to mention the 60% TM gain really gets the squad going.
2. Echo: Not sure where to begin. The Clones really need this passive assist from him and his debuff is greatly needed and the AOE aspect of it is awesome.
- Assist: restrict his ability to assist to Clones and reduce his damage penalty or keep the penalty and have it add TM to other Clones or something.
- AOE: Not sure if this is a possible fix but he needs to not use it when Foresight pops; if he could hold it for Taunt that would be ideal. The cooldown needs to be reduced by at least 1 turn, if not 2.
3. Sarge: Probably the most well-balanced of the group, don't think any changes needed here.
4. CT-5555's: His double-tap is sweet and an Omega'd assist that calls another Clone is pretty strong. Because the Clones NEED a taunt, I would love to see a passive taunt that is restricted to Clones added to 5's.
5. If Cody is to remain the leader, his lead really only works when there is basically a full Clone squad but again; the Clones NEED a tank so which Clone do you drop? Secondly, his total health is horrible and he can't be played outside of the leadership position, which unfortunately reduces the effectiveness of JKA to lead the Clones and incorporate Cody. Lastly, his defense gain for leader should apply to all Clones to improve their survivability, though that could be OP for 5's. Perhaps make his leader a passive ability and do something different with the lead, % crit gain and... x% TM gain on crit?
The best squad I can run right now is a JKA lead, with Rex, 5's, SunFac, and RG. I've tried Sarge with some benefit. I can run a full Clone squad on offense against many squads but against squads that have JKA, 5's, Rey, and 2 tanks or even JKA, 5's, Aayla, Rey it's almost impossible to win it seem with all the counters.
I think the Clones can be a competitive squad with some changes, so in short here are my suggestions,
1. Cody:
- 212th Attack: Reduce cooldown by 1-turn and reduce damage penalty
- At-TE Cannon: inflict offense down for each crit instead of 1 stun or give TM to Clones
- Increase health about 30%
- Make leader +defense ability a passive
- Change leader to be +crit & possibly +TM
2. Rex
- Update AI to prioritize Squad Discipline
3. Echo
- Assist: Reduce damage penalty
- AOE: Restrict use to Taunt for the AI
4. CT-5555: Add a passive taunt that is restricted to Clones only.
Edit: Try not to be too hard on Kozi with this update. He did say it was a "soft" update, so they may have more in the works but they wanted to at least give us something rather than wait longer. The defense gain on lead really isn't bad.
A taunting 5s would make him op I feel if it were on 5s Kit. Maybe a tie in to leader or a passive on Cody that referances specific chars like Biggs and wedge. "If a clone drops below 50% hp CT-5555 will taunt for one turn." Just something to make me want to pick him as leader over Anakin and to give an all clone squad some defence against being focused.
The Clones desperately need that Taunt and it definitely should be restricted to Clones or it would be too OP. I dont know how to work it but they need something.
What about his Leader? To me the defense part should be passive if they dont want to increase his HP and do something different with his leader.
Rex really needs that change too.
I also LOVE the ideas regarding some sort of way to trigger a taunt on Fives. He literally never takes damage during arena matches (or most other game modes) despite me desperately wishing to be able to capitalize on his "tank" stats. I feel like the AI knows to just save him until the end and kill all the soft targets first. Let the tank...uh....tank
I had a few thoughts as well on how to rebalance cody and echo a bit. Overall I align to you on all your suggestions, however I do think that cody needs a more significant change, some kind of a passive that gives further clone synergy for cody as a commander would be great - it feels like he lacks a bit of punch as a faction leader you know? Also echo needs a bit of a rebuff - his nerf was a bit much.
here's my suggestions -
Echo
Was changed to stop an exploit, but now echo does not follow up fives when he counters or when he assists and someone else assists. It felt like he only got changed because of cody so echo got over nerfed. Can we figure out a way to balance this out a bit for echo?
Cody
potentailly replace his pretty sub standard AOE..
Example passives....!
What ya'll think?
Love the suggestions by @DaveyDangerous and @Darth_Jay77.
I had a lot of fun running Rex (L), Cody, echo, 5s and palpatine in GW today.
I also like to run Rex (L), echo, Cody, 5s & sun Fac in arena but I haven't found a clone team that holds rank well on defense.
I noticed this as well but haven't said anything yet, definitely worth its own thread.
1000 base
1750 Assist
1500 from offense up
1750-1500 = 250
1750 (first instance + new number, 250 = 2000 damage value on the attack. Then THAT number is compounded by the crit damage value if you score one(base 150%)
So that attack turns out to be 2000 (from both effects modifying the original attack value) 2000 in this example
2000 X 150% = 5000 damage on the attack.
We'd like it to compound multiplicitivly but watch why it dosent
1000+75% 1750 X new modifier of (50%) = 875 more damage
New value of 2625 damage compounded with 150% crit damage
3937.5 damage
If the damage were calculated like this it'd quickly get out of hand with a higher multiplier of crit damage
In a last fun example
Boba fett leader (50% crit damage)
Crit damage set (40% crit damage)
Crit multiplier on triangle mod (36% damage)
Same scenario realistic numbers
You hit for 8000 basic off 5555 assist with offense up with boba lead and those mods( 276% crit damage)
8000
Assist 14000 damage
Offense (50%) added to previous #21000
Crit damage (276%) = 78960 damage
See why this dosent happen lol
Instead each modified the base (same scenario)
8000
Assist (+75%) 14000 still the same
Offense modifies BASE (8000+50%) 12000
Subtract difference to find total additive to attack (14000-12000= 2000)
New attack
10000
Compounded with 276% crit = 37600 damage
Still a good increase in damage but it dosent compound multiplicitivly like you'd think to keep some semblance of sanity in game
(DISCLAIMER)
I may be mistaken but my observations are based on in game experimentation and a similar thread conceding qui gon where the question was raised and although no formula was created this conclusion was reached)
He does the same damage on an offense up crit as one with the assist and offense crit
Hope we get more synergy from echo and cody!
Yeah, Cody does need some more work. CG_Kozi did mention that this was only a soft update so I imagine there is more to come still. His HP no doubt needs to come up or he's pigeon-holed into a lead spot and he's really not the best leader for the Clones. I think his leader would be a nice passive ability if they don't increase his HP, he'd be more viable with that at least. The Clones as a whole need some help, namely they need a Taunt or what I'd call a re-direct to 5's. How that works I don't know but they need something because Rey, Biggs & Wedge together can one-shot any of the Clones (not 5's) and 86 and other get pretty darn close.
I've been play-testing some more with the Clones. I think Cody could be a really good character for the Clones if they can somehow either make his leader a passive or extend his defense bonus to the other Clones. It's been fun, strong against some squads and not so great against others (which is fine, can't beat everything). Dropping 20 spots overnight just really sucks and I think some of the adjustments we mentioned in the other thread will make them more competitive.
He does but he's one of the rarer drops from Chromiums. If you really want him then spend the crystals on Rex shipments and refreshing those shipments.
No problem