I get it, Gk is a meta toon and everything, and that the hAAT is ridiculously hard for 90% of all the guilds.
now, don't get me wrong, I don't believe in nerfs due to oversight (Lugo), no matter how OP it is. Same reason why I disagreed with the enrage tweak to prevent Maul from solo'ing nAAT. (Although I DO think Lugo needs a slight tweak, but that's a different story).
However, to say that "give us a chance, so reduce difficulty" as a reason to not nerf Nute, I in turn have a question to ask. If GK became that easy to get as OG han, power creep will take us to the next level. A GK + Chirrut that cleanses, grants opposite buffs, deals High DPS, has a OHKO move AND does HoTs will make its way into the game
However, here's the truth: hAAT will never be nerfed in any form, and has never been. GK is meant for ONLY either a group of dedicated f2p or a bunch of light-to-kraken spenders, not your average guild with half of its members being < level 85. If you are unhappy with the fact that your guild can't do hAAT, just join a hAAT guild. There's tons of hAAT guilds looking for 600s-per-day people.
However, to say that "give us a chance, so reduce difficulty" as a reason to not nerf Nute, I in turn have a question to ask. If GK became that easy to get as OG han, power creep will take us to the next level. A GK + Chirrut that cleanses, grants opposite buffs, deals High DPS, has a OHKO move AND does HoTs will make its way into the game
Are you serious? So as long as smaller guilds don't get GK, there won't be any power creep?
The fact that guilds full of krakens/whales/dolphins (i.e., the guilds full of people who will spend money chasing the meta) have him would necessarily mean that there will be power creep to inspire them to spend more money.
Someone found a squad that works under the confines of the rules that the developers set forth. It is still dependent under certain conditions (death or retreat, stealth, etc.). They will lose the the trust of a lot of players (if they haven't already) if they fire off on this build.
Zader was a bug, and while it was rough to lose the bug for some people, it was an obvious problem. Teebo wasn't nerfed at all, and at the time he was the biggest hit to soloing at least p1 of the rancor raid. Teebo, like Lugo (Nutinni), works under the confines of "working as intended," therefore a need for a rework to disallow this build is unfair.
The solution? For the next raid that comes out: examine all the possibilities and write a raid that avoids this exact scenario.
Haven't read everything, but has anyone suggested having the jawas not be able to call the same ally twice in a row? That means jawas still call a predictable assist (droid teams), doesn't nerf Nute, and as I see it only affects this team comp.
That being said, I think it's still disrespectful and shallow to nerf it. They just need to get on with a ship raid and try harder to make it impenetrable but strategic.
Has anyone seen hard data on its effectiveness with P3? Everyone acts like two guild members with Nute/Jawa can just solo the whole raid, your guild still has to have the rosters to get through P3. So it's not like a bunch of weak guilds are just gonna break this thing open
Ahhhh I see the torches are still lit and pitchefork sharpening is steadily coming along, send the kids with oil buckets and torches over there and the the old ladies with bags of cats over there and.....
Unfortunately they will kind of have to nerf this. If they allow this to remain in place it would mean that any future raid/contents can't use the topple mechanics without being vulnerable to the exact same team comp.
This will probably come in the form of either a focused condition on Gunray (his particular leader ability expires on death) or some systemic fix. It could be painful if they limit TM gain in some way
One fairly acceptable fix I see to this situation would be adding a 'TM increase on hit' ability to the toppled tank. Of course, it would have to be small, 1-2% TM gain per hit, otherwise it hurts Zody teams more than Lugo teams. A 5% gain per hit would cripple both teams, and the whole player base would be affronted. With a 2% TM gain per hit, Lugo damage would not be able to break a million, but at least it would be good for several 100,000's in damage. Zody teams would be affected a little as well, but maybe it could be made up to them by getting some clone bonus to the raid that is long, long overdue.
TL;DR: A small built-in TM gain would reward a player that has built a Lugo team, but it still rewards whales more for buying a Zody team. This way, both player types and EA's accountants should be content.
Ahhhh I see the torches are still lit and pitchefork sharpening is steadily coming along, send the kids with oil buckets and torches over there and the the old ladies with bags of cats over there and.....
Has anyone seen hard data on its effectiveness with P3? Everyone acts like two guild members with Nute/Jawa can just solo the whole raid, your guild still has to have the rosters to get through P3. So it's not like a bunch of weak guilds are just gonna break this thing open
Exactly and pretty sure weaker guilds don't have Nute. It isn't like he was high on the farm list.
I'm a whale with 7 star kenobi and I think it's ridiculous to punish the community for @Lugo 's creative idea. It's not a bug. I wanted to use Nutinni next raid and dumped a ton of resources towards it as I'm sure many other people did. But along comes CG and says they don't like the way we're playing with their toys so they're going to take them away. It's an immature response by the devs and disrespectful to the player community. Not to mention they gave us a bunch of broken toys that they haven't fixed for months, so we find a new way to play with some formerly obsolete toys and
+1 also to add to that I wish they would fix the actual bugs in a quick manner.
Has anyone seen hard data on its effectiveness with P3? Everyone acts like two guild members with Nute/Jawa can just solo the whole raid, your guild still has to have the rosters to get through P3. So it's not like a bunch of weak guilds are just gonna break this thing open
You can't solo the whole thing. P1 GG gets full TM when hit a certain number of times and will enrage before solo.
P2 similar - B2 gets TM per hit and use aoe. Same as why chirpantine cant solo.
Solo is only p2 or p4. I suppose someone could both if they managed retreat all three nute dathka scav.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
Exactly bugs happen no matter the staff, number of staff or QA. they are just significantly more expensive when they are in prod to fix. There will always be bugs in all most all software it is inevitable it will occur.
There are time lines that need to be met for the schedule and things slip through even if they have double the QA time happens.
In games eventually the players come up with creative use of mechanics that QA or Devs didn't think about. At this point they have to fix it. How the Devs address the bugs and unintended mechanics is what matters.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
For me a big issue here is that it talks about it should be a guild effort, but like so many other guilds it becomes ridiculously hard to accomplish. The reason is defections. We are a fairly tight knit guild but recently have been hit fairly hard with members leaving for other guilds that are haat level. More guilds reaching that level has meant more need to fill their ranks.
They are often willing to take players who do not have a full haat roster as long as they supply tickets. This makes it increasingly hard for guilds who are sitting on the outside but so close. Our guild wants to accomplish Haat on our own, but it begins to feel like an uphill battle.
Basically since the AAT had been released it began to tear apart establish guild, as everyone with strong rosters joined together. Now we see that going deeper and creating a deeper rift between heroic and non heroic guilds.
Yes I could leave my guild and I am sure many haat guilds would be happy to have me, but I heavily respect the bunch I am with and that is not going to happen. Guilds should be fun. But they should also feel they can reach the next level.
Nute gives a push to those guilds. It is a group that someone worked hard to find and is not a bug.
Well since everyone is calling for nerfs why not just put a 2% damage cap per person per phase of the raids then everyone will have to "work together as a guild"
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
I doesn't matter that the current meta arena team of Rex, GK, Chase, Nihilus was clearly unintended. Players should be free to use this team, even if something needs to be tweeked to stop it doing significant damage in multiple phases.
I wish I hadn't dumped resources into Nute now. We got stuck on phase 2 and it looks like we will stay there. There are plenty of real bugs to fix instead of this. Teebo can solo a raid but soloing one round is a problem in the tank.
A single toon can also solo p1 and a team can solo p2/4...
Still no way to solo p3 so this doesn't mean everyone can do haat with 3 underpowered toons and a guild still needs to work together to get past p3 so that invalidates Cg kozi point that this will cause guilds to not work together. They will have to pull together to beat p3.
Isn't P2 and p4 the easiest phases of the raid anyways where clones can do 70 to 80% damage.
The only thing that's unintended is that now people have a use for a 3 toons which they invested 330 shards each and some gear, they just didn't gear them to g11 spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars, but they still farmed the shards and a lot of gear.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
Replies
now, don't get me wrong, I don't believe in nerfs due to oversight (Lugo), no matter how OP it is. Same reason why I disagreed with the enrage tweak to prevent Maul from solo'ing nAAT. (Although I DO think Lugo needs a slight tweak, but that's a different story).
However, to say that "give us a chance, so reduce difficulty" as a reason to not nerf Nute, I in turn have a question to ask. If GK became that easy to get as OG han, power creep will take us to the next level. A GK + Chirrut that cleanses, grants opposite buffs, deals High DPS, has a OHKO move AND does HoTs will make its way into the game
However, here's the truth: hAAT will never be nerfed in any form, and has never been. GK is meant for ONLY either a group of dedicated f2p or a bunch of light-to-kraken spenders, not your average guild with half of its members being < level 85. If you are unhappy with the fact that your guild can't do hAAT, just join a hAAT guild. There's tons of hAAT guilds looking for 600s-per-day people.
Edit: For clarification, my post refers to not to Lugo, but the general idea of 'never nerf'.
Are you serious? So as long as smaller guilds don't get GK, there won't be any power creep?
The fact that guilds full of krakens/whales/dolphins (i.e., the guilds full of people who will spend money chasing the meta) have him would necessarily mean that there will be power creep to inspire them to spend more money.
Zader was a bug, and while it was rough to lose the bug for some people, it was an obvious problem. Teebo wasn't nerfed at all, and at the time he was the biggest hit to soloing at least p1 of the rancor raid. Teebo, like Lugo (Nutinni), works under the confines of "working as intended," therefore a need for a rework to disallow this build is unfair.
The solution? For the next raid that comes out: examine all the possibilities and write a raid that avoids this exact scenario.
That being said, I think it's still disrespectful and shallow to nerf it. They just need to get on with a ship raid and try harder to make it impenetrable but strategic.
This will probably come in the form of either a focused condition on Gunray (his particular leader ability expires on death) or some systemic fix. It could be painful if they limit TM gain in some way
TL;DR: A small built-in TM gain would reward a player that has built a Lugo team, but it still rewards whales more for buying a Zody team. This way, both player types and EA's accountants should be content.
he was nerfed in the beginning.
LOL
Exactly and pretty sure weaker guilds don't have Nute. It isn't like he was high on the farm list.
+1 also to add to that I wish they would fix the actual bugs in a quick manner.
You can't solo the whole thing. P1 GG gets full TM when hit a certain number of times and will enrage before solo.
P2 similar - B2 gets TM per hit and use aoe. Same as why chirpantine cant solo.
Solo is only p2 or p4. I suppose someone could both if they managed retreat all three nute dathka scav.
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
Exactly bugs happen no matter the staff, number of staff or QA. they are just significantly more expensive when they are in prod to fix. There will always be bugs in all most all software it is inevitable it will occur.
There are time lines that need to be met for the schedule and things slip through even if they have double the QA time happens.
In games eventually the players come up with creative use of mechanics that QA or Devs didn't think about. At this point they have to fix it. How the Devs address the bugs and unintended mechanics is what matters.
Edit: language
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
They are often willing to take players who do not have a full haat roster as long as they supply tickets. This makes it increasingly hard for guilds who are sitting on the outside but so close. Our guild wants to accomplish Haat on our own, but it begins to feel like an uphill battle.
Basically since the AAT had been released it began to tear apart establish guild, as everyone with strong rosters joined together. Now we see that going deeper and creating a deeper rift between heroic and non heroic guilds.
Yes I could leave my guild and I am sure many haat guilds would be happy to have me, but I heavily respect the bunch I am with and that is not going to happen. Guilds should be fun. But they should also feel they can reach the next level.
Nute gives a push to those guilds. It is a group that someone worked hard to find and is not a bug.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
A single toon can also solo p1 and a team can solo p2/4...
Still no way to solo p3 so this doesn't mean everyone can do haat with 3 underpowered toons and a guild still needs to work together to get past p3 so that invalidates Cg kozi point that this will cause guilds to not work together. They will have to pull together to beat p3.
Isn't P2 and p4 the easiest phases of the raid anyways where clones can do 70 to 80% damage.
The only thing that's unintended is that now people have a use for a 3 toons which they invested 330 shards each and some gear, they just didn't gear them to g11 spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars, but they still farmed the shards and a lot of gear.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.