If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
So when we are talking resource dump people spent time instead of money, brains instead of cash, theory rafting instead of following the herd and being force fed team compositions for the raid, there's so many bigger problems in this game than people starting to farm some character shards after spending time figure out to do exactly that. Especially on a raid that's what? A year old.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
The only thing that's unintended is that now people have a use for a 3 toons which they invested 330 shards each and some gear,
Calling for a nerf because they work at g10 and g8 instead of g11 is absolutely ridiculous, what I have to spend $300 or my team isn't valid lol
Well since everyone is calling for nerfs why not just put a 2% damage cap per person per phase of the raids then everyone will have to "work together as a guild"
Or maybe just make the raid mechanics encourage working together instead of internally competing for supremacy against your own guild mates.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
This, exactly this. Unless you haven't put hundreds of hours and money into it you shouldn't benefit. Good you clarified it.
That's quite the strawman.
Sorry but yes you need to invest either time or money to beat the most challenging game mode. Otherwise you may as well let people Sim he raid like daily challenges.
For me a big issue here is that it talks about it should be a guild effort, but like so many other guilds it becomes ridiculously hard to accomplish. The reason is defections. We are a fairly tight knit guild but recently have been hit fairly hard with members leaving for other guilds that are haat level. More guilds reaching that level has meant more need to fill their ranks.
They are often willingly my to take players who do not have a full haat roster as long as they supply tickets. This makes it increasingly hard for guilds who are sitting on the outside but so close. Our guild wants to accomplish Haat on our own, but it begins to feel like an uphill battle.
Basically since the AAT had been released it began to tear apart establish guild, as everyone with strong rosters joined together. Now we see that going deeper and creating a deeper rift between heroic and non heroic guilds.
Yes I could leave my guild and I am sure many haat guilds would be happy to have me, but I heavily respect the bunch I am with and that is not going to happen. Guilds should be fun. But they should also feel they can reach the next level.
Nute gives a push to those guilds. It is a group that someone worked hard to find and is not a bug.
Sooooooo much this.
Our guild split when HAAT came out. We struggled with NAAT (it was nerfed like 3 or 4 weeks after we broke up) because back then it was just a slogfest. The more competitive players wanted to merge our guild with another, with all the uber people in one and the casual (aka lazy freeloaders) in the other. Some of us refused, so many left and we had to rebuild. Now we still can't do HAAT despite being able to do NAAT in a day because every time we lose people, we have to compete with all the HAAT farm guilds who take whoever just for their 600 raid tix.
We've been stuck in this perpetual limbo state for months now. We recruit great people. I love our members. We help and support each other, but some times a few will grow complacent and see these HAAT farm guilds who can get them gk shards for only showing up. Who can blame them?
So we lose one or two and then we roll back down the hill. Then we spend weeks sending out messages and posts trying to recruit others, but these limbo guilds like us are scrambling to recruit anyone. We can't compete to get members that are HAAT ready. So it's like we gain 2 new recruits ready to work and then we lose 2 who are tired of waiting.
And yeah, why not leave and join one of those HAAT farm guilds ourselves? Because our guild is family. We support each other, and we'll make it there together. Not by dumping people just because they can't do their 2% HAAT damage.
Many, many people are only playing this game still because of their friends in their guilds. Keep pushing people to join these conglomerates, and you'll just end up losing players.
It's time for this HAAT debacle to be done. Throw us a bone here. Keep Nutinni.
Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
This, exactly this. Unless you haven't put hundreds of hours and money into it you shouldn't benefit. Good you clarified it.
That's quite the strawman.
Sorry but yes you need to invest either time or money to beat the most challenging game mode. Otherwise you may as well let people Sim he raid like daily challenges.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
So when we are talking resource dump people spent time instead of money, brains instead of cash, theory rafting instead of following the herd and being force fed team compositions for the raid, there's so many bigger problems in this game than people starting to farm some character shards after spending time figure out to do exactly that. Especially on a raid that's what? A year old.
Realistically, the best nerf that can happen us they move nute to dark side hard node. This way, people who farmed him previously aren't penalized, but future farms are restricted. It also allows people to pay for refreshes which works for their profit margin.
Any other nerf is a showing of how terrible their testing process is. They constantly release new characters with bugs, take 6 months to fix basic bugs, or simply don't care if it has to do with fleet.
For me a big issue here is that it talks about it should be a guild effort, but like so many other guilds it becomes ridiculously hard to accomplish. The reason is defections. We are a fairly tight knit guild but recently have been hit fairly hard with members leaving for other guilds that are haat level. More guilds reaching that level has meant more need to fill their ranks.
They are often willingly my to take players who do not have a full haat roster as long as they supply tickets. This makes it increasingly hard for guilds who are sitting on the outside but so close. Our guild wants to accomplish Haat on our own, but it begins to feel like an uphill battle.
Basically since the AAT had been released it began to tear apart establish guild, as everyone with strong rosters joined together. Now we see that going deeper and creating a deeper rift between heroic and non heroic guilds.
Yes I could leave my guild and I am sure many haat guilds would be happy to have me, but I heavily respect the bunch I am with and that is not going to happen. Guilds should be fun. But they should also feel they can reach the next level.
Nute gives a push to those guilds. It is a group that someone worked hard to find and is not a bug.
Sooooooo much this.
Our guild split when HAAT came out. We struggled with NAAT (it was nerfed like 3 or 4 weeks after we broke up) because back then it was just a slogfest. The more competitive players wanted to merge our guild with another, with all the uber people in one and the casual (aka lazy freeloaders) in the other. Some of us refused, so many left and we had to rebuild. Now we still can't do HAAT despite being able to do NAAT in a day because every time we lose people, we have to compete with all the HAAT farm guilds who take whoever just for their 600 raid tix.
We've been stuck in this perpetual limbo state for months now. We recruit great people. I love our members. We help and support each other, but some times a few will grow complacent and see these HAAT farm guilds who can get them gk shards for only showing up. Who can blame them?
So we lose one or two and then we roll back down the hill. Then we spend weeks sending out messages and posts trying to recruit others, but these limbo guilds like us are scrambling to recruit anyone. We can't compete to get members that are HAAT ready. So it's like we gain 2 new recruits ready to work and then we lose 2 who are tired of waiting.
And yeah, why not leave and join one of those HAAT farm guilds ourselves? Because our guild is family. We support each other, and we'll make it there together. Not by dumping people just because they can't do their 2% HAAT damage.
Many, many people are only playing this game still because of their friends in their guilds. Keep pushing people to join these conglomerates, and you'll just end up losing players.
It's time for this HAAT debacle to be done. Throw us a bone here. Keep Nutinni.
I feel you bro. We are in the same situation. And now that they fixed Zader, even the HRancor is out of our league.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
To compare them is not intellectually honest.
Rancor can be beat on auto with less than 5 toons. But intellectual honesty is tough for people.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
Jawas need decent mods and such
Everyone seems to forget about time. The most precious resource. It cost time. Not money. For arguments sake let's say that Lugo (the person) spent 100 hours working on a wag to beat the haat, now let's say minimum wage is 10$ and that's what we're paying our theorycrafters. You do the math.
And even to get nute u have to be good in arena so there's additional investment to even get nute 7 star it's nit like he is a starter toon. He is a top arena reward who has no use until now.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
To compare them is not intellectually honest.
Rancor can be beat on auto with less than 5 toons. But intellectual honesty is tough for people.
That was a glitch that was also fixed. It also required much more investment in gear, mods, and Zetas to achieve for less rewards. Thanks for proving my point.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
To compare them is not intellectually honest.
Rancor can be beat on auto with less than 5 toons. But intellectual honesty is tough for people.
That was a glitch that was also fixed. It also required much more investment in gear, mods, and Zetas to achieve for less rewards. Thanks for proving my point.
Stop dodging the fact it took time instead of money and accept that as a resource.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
Jawas need decent mods and such
Everyone seems to forget about time. The most precious resource. It cost time. Not money. For arguments sake let's say that Lugo (the person) spent 100 hours working on a wag to beat the haat, now let's say minimum wage is 10$ and that's what we're paying our theorycrafters. You do the math.
Theory crafting this game is what I do for fun. Are you suggesting people be paid for their time spent on entertainment?
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
Jawas need decent mods and such
Everyone seems to forget about time. The most precious resource. It cost time. Not money. For arguments sake let's say that Lugo (the person) spent 100 hours working on a wag to beat the haat, now let's say minimum wage is 10$ and that's what we're paying our theorycrafters. You do the math.
Theory crafting this game is what I do for fun. Are you suggesting people be paid for their time spent on entertainment?
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
Totally agree. With clones nobody (not even devs) was complaining. Why? Requires a lot of effort in farming toons, gear and specially mods. That is what gives money.
However, when the same happen with 3 easy to farm toons, relatively easy to gear (compared to leia+clones) with no need of godly mods, then whales start to complain, and devs react within hours, because the game is "out of balance", or is not "working as intended".
Sure. If instead of Nute were a new shiny exclusive toon, that need to spend several hundred bucks to 7*, would they have reacted the same? I bet not.
If Nute has to die for this to work, what resources beyond 7 stars go into him?
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
Jawas need decent mods and such
Everyone seems to forget about time. The most precious resource. It cost time. Not money. For arguments sake let's say that Lugo (the person) spent 100 hours working on a wag to beat the haat, now let's say minimum wage is 10$ and that's what we're paying our theorycrafters. You do the math.
Theory crafting this game is what I do for fun. Are you suggesting people be paid for their time spent on entertainment?
ROFL I hope this was a troll
Legitimate question. If this gets fixed it is most definitely a nerf, which the devs said they were done with. No bug fix to hide behind. Just a straight, "we goofed, and made something stronger than we meant to" nerf.
I'm in favor of leaving it as is, but I understand their point of view. But other than maybe a few million credits, and a few crystals to compensate players who 7 stared their Nute just for this I'm not sure what else should be required to make it right.
This team required, and was actually BETTER, with a very minimal blue gear Nute, and only needed some half finished Jawas. And nobody is getting compensation for time spent thinking about playing a game. That's just silly.
Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
This, exactly this. Unless you haven't put hundreds of hours and money into it you shouldn't benefit. Good you clarified it.
That's quite the strawman.
Sorry but yes you need to invest either time or money to beat the most challenging game mode. Otherwise you may as well let people Sim he raid like daily challenges.
I think you're on to something. Rancor should be sim-able once you've full cleared it once, it'll save everyone time, and since the rewards are based on player ID, the guild will be working together for the common good of the guys with the lowest ID anyway.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
Totally agree. With clones nobody (not even devs) was complaining. Why? Requires a lot of effort in farming toons, gear and specially mods. That is what gives money.
However, when the same happen with 3 easy to farm toons, relatively easy to gear (compared to leia+clones) with no need of godly mods, then whales start to complain, and devs react within hours, because the game is "out of balance", or is not "working as intended".
Sure. If instead of Nute were a new shiny exclusive toon, that need to spend several hundred bucks to 7*, would they have reacted the same? I bet not.
Statistically we are probably FTP. So let's assume for a moment we are.
Why I think as a FTP something should he changed: HAAT is the single game mode that requires players to develop a large roster (even there it is up to some level).
Whales are mostly the carry of their guild, so what now, if the whales don't need to even spend money to carry the guild? Revenue goes down.
In the end, this game is also a business and we need to find a good balance between fun and revenue.
Nutinni/Lugo Neuter is clearly effecting their future income and thus the future content of the game as well. Is this something as a player base really want?
I agree that HAAT should be made easier to clear, and in way it has been with the numerous Zeta compared to November. I am happy if they keep Nutinni, but I am convinced that this team is like an enhencment drug for guilds who use it to clear HAAT: you will regret it over the long-term.
Offer him a hearty handshake and a pat on the back.
I know there are lots of posts about this already, but most of them have gone so off-topic that I felt it might be necessary to start a new one. This one is directed at both the players and developers.
Now let's get to the point (in another lengthy post).
From a developmental standpoint, there are 2 basic ways of looking at any video game: as a product your company sells, and as entertainment your company provides (there's a possible 3rd way to look at it, which is as a social/political statement or work of art, but that's not relevant to this issue, so I'm not gonna touch it). As long as people enjoy your game and you provide a decent way for them to give you money, you're golden. It's all about balancing costs at that point. But wait, what does that have to do with Lugo?
Let's assume that EA does do quite a bit of testing before they release new content. Users have begun referring to the community as a bunch of beta-testers in a truly pejorative sense, but the truth is that this self-labelling is just an outward exertion of our frustration that the game keeps changing due to our perception that EA is releasing content without testing it extensively beforehand. I would urge us to consider that this point is both true and false. EA does TONS of testing, but their team is limited in number. The player-base, on the other hand, is literally millions of people. To put it into perspective, let's say EA has 100 people whose job is exclusively to test new content before it's release, and let's round out the player base to an even 1 million. That would mean that each of the EA employees testing the game would have to put in 10,000 hours of work to equate the player-base playing the game for 1 hour. Now, those are just arbitrary numbers I selected to make a point, but the reality is probably more extreme. EA most likely has far fewer that 100 people dedicated to testing, and the player-base is well over 1 million. This means that it is highly unlikely that EA will be able to foresee and test each and every possible way players will use the game. Considering that the plan for raids has always been to create a 5-character team, I find it very easy to imagine a circumstance in which the Nute-led jawa duo was never even conceptualized.
So, that's me letting EA off the hook for not catching this, and several other strategies, ahead of time (looking at you, Kylo-soloing P1 and Maul soloing P2-P4 in NAAT before the fix). You may disagree, and you're certainly entitled to do so.
Either way, here we are. From EA's standpoint, a player figured out how to "game the system" in a way that was never intended. From the user standpoint, Lugo played the game like a puzzle that needed to be solved, and he found a rather ingenious solution that nobody else had seen before.
Now let's connect all the dots.
EA creates new content for the game and does loads of internal testing. The new content works, with a few tweaks along the way. EA makes money and provides entertainment for its users. But EA doesn't have the man-hours to match the millions of people who play the game every day. MONTHS later, one of the millions of players comes up with a fun trick to tackle the new content. After that trick is discovered, it disseminates throughout the user base, allowing more people to make use of the trick, and (here's the really important part) continue to play the content and spend money in the game anyway.
So what should EA do with Lugo and his Nute/Jawa strategy?
Nothing. Just let it go. Focus on the upcoming content, and keep looking forward. Continue to provide new things for us to play and reasons for us to spend.
If EA decides to, they can apply what they've learned from this experience in several ways:
1) Invite Lugo and many of the other well-documented theory-crafters to become official beta-testers of new content before its release.
2) Allow any user to apply to become an official beta-tester
3) Require that all raid teams be made up of 5 characters, and auto-enroll all guild members at 0 damage in new raids.
There are many many many other things to learn from Lugo's discovery. It will be very interesting to see how EA decides to handle it.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
Totally agree. With clones nobody (not even devs) was complaining. Why? Requires a lot of effort in farming toons, gear and specially mods. That is what gives money.
However, when the same happen with 3 easy to farm toons, relatively easy to gear (compared to leia+clones) with no need of godly mods, then whales start to complain, and devs react within hours, because the game is "out of balance", or is not "working as intended".
Sure. If instead of Nute were a new shiny exclusive toon, that need to spend several hundred bucks to 7*, would they have reacted the same? I bet not.
Statistically we are probably FTP. So let's assume for a moment we are.
Why I think as a FTP something should he changed: HAAT is the single game mode that requires players to develop a large roster (even there it is up to some level).
Whales are mostly the carry of their guild, so what now, if the whales don't need to even spend money to carry the guild? Revenue goes down.
In the end, this game is also a business and we need to find a good balance between fun and revenue.
Nutinni/Lugo Neuter is clearly effecting their future income and thus the future content of the game as well. Is this something as a player base really want?
I agree that HAAT should be made easier to clear, and in way it has been with the numerous Zeta compared to November. I am happy if they keep Nutinni, but I am convinced that this team is like an enhencment drug for guilds who use it to clear HAAT: you will regret it over the long-term.
Only the strongest guilds should get HAAT rewards!! .... all those little guilds they don't need rewards or kenobi shards. Anything that works for them should be nerfed immediately. This is getting really bad. Does anyone test these characters before they are released?
So punish those who figured out a poor man's squad to manage damage that only the top dog squads can do? This isn't a "shame on you" to the player who figured it out. I'd say shame on you to the employee who totally failed their job testing these characters.
Being a software tester is not as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't matter they get paid to do it
And?
The point is that there are hundreds of possible team combinations just under Nute lead in this one game mode. It's tough to make sure no defect ever gets through.
There is no defect. Everything is working exactly as described (that alone is kinda surprising). By the same argument chirpantine shouldn't work, or TM manipulation in rancor.
False equivalency. Neither of those could be put on auto, did much less damage and required more investment.
There is no defect everything is working as intended.
Soloing a full phase of a game mode designed for 50 players on auto with 3 junk toons and minimal investment is not WAI.
Look at the big picture of the sustainability of the game vs the quick fix cheat codes.
3 toons that need to be 7 star and geared to a point of a leader skill
Each toon is working exactly as defined. Raid bonus for jawas, exactly as designed. They were only "junk toons" because they hadn't been put together like this before (chirpa is a perfect equivalent). Only issue here is people don't like that someone else figured out a game changer that levels the playing field.
Who cares anyway now that resistance can do massive damage p2 and clones can solo p4. By the concept of "big picture sustainability" then those should get nerfed too.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
To compare them is not intellectually honest.
Rancor can be beat on auto with less than 5 toons. But intellectual honesty is tough for people.
That was a glitch that was also fixed. It also required much more investment in gear, mods, and Zetas to achieve for less rewards. Thanks for proving my point.
Stop dodging the fact it took time instead of money and accept that as a resource.
I never said it was not a resource. In this game you pay to advance in money or in time. Doesn't change the fact that this team finishes the most challenging game mode on auto with a tiny fraction of the time or money most players invested to building teams for that same game mode.
Replies
The Lugo video shows 4 toons going in to make this work, not 5. Just making sure we have the data right. In fact the jawas are not even g11. (G10/G8). The Nute was also barely geared (2 large prot bars)
So when we are talking resource dump, lets at least be upfront with what is needed. The debate on how a mechanic and how it works is part of a thread even snakes had started last week about uniques/lead functions.
Or maybe just make the raid mechanics encourage working together instead of internally competing for supremacy against your own guild mates.
You need 3 toons, Nute can be in blue gear and you can put it on auto and Solo the thing.
It's totally disingenuous to compare that to the grind and in game play strategy required to do massive damage with clones or resistance.
To compare them is not intellectually honest.
This, exactly this. Unless you haven't put hundreds of hours and money into it you shouldn't benefit. Good you clarified it.
That's quite the strawman.
Sorry but yes you need to invest either time or money to beat the most challenging game mode. Otherwise you may as well let people Sim he raid like daily challenges.
Sooooooo much this.
Our guild split when HAAT came out. We struggled with NAAT (it was nerfed like 3 or 4 weeks after we broke up) because back then it was just a slogfest. The more competitive players wanted to merge our guild with another, with all the uber people in one and the casual (aka lazy freeloaders) in the other. Some of us refused, so many left and we had to rebuild. Now we still can't do HAAT despite being able to do NAAT in a day because every time we lose people, we have to compete with all the HAAT farm guilds who take whoever just for their 600 raid tix.
We've been stuck in this perpetual limbo state for months now. We recruit great people. I love our members. We help and support each other, but some times a few will grow complacent and see these HAAT farm guilds who can get them gk shards for only showing up. Who can blame them?
So we lose one or two and then we roll back down the hill. Then we spend weeks sending out messages and posts trying to recruit others, but these limbo guilds like us are scrambling to recruit anyone. We can't compete to get members that are HAAT ready. So it's like we gain 2 new recruits ready to work and then we lose 2 who are tired of waiting.
And yeah, why not leave and join one of those HAAT farm guilds ourselves? Because our guild is family. We support each other, and we'll make it there together. Not by dumping people just because they can't do their 2% HAAT damage.
Many, many people are only playing this game still because of their friends in their guilds. Keep pushing people to join these conglomerates, and you'll just end up losing players.
It's time for this HAAT debacle to be done. Throw us a bone here. Keep Nutinni.
Any other nerf is a showing of how terrible their testing process is. They constantly release new characters with bugs, take 6 months to fix basic bugs, or simply don't care if it has to do with fleet.
Rancor can be beat on auto with less than 5 toons. But intellectual honesty is tough for people.
990 stars Vs 330 stars
23 gear levels Vs 10 gear levels
Millions more credits and More green blue purple mats as well what's the fuss about
Plus u need rng with Lugo where zylo u can kill the whole phase guaranteed
Nute needs to be minimum gear and level to get an omega on leader skill.
Jawas need decent mods and such
Everyone seems to forget about time. The most precious resource. It cost time. Not money. For arguments sake let's say that Lugo (the person) spent 100 hours working on a wag to beat the haat, now let's say minimum wage is 10$ and that's what we're paying our theorycrafters. You do the math.
That was a glitch that was also fixed. It also required much more investment in gear, mods, and Zetas to achieve for less rewards. Thanks for proving my point.
Stop dodging the fact it took time instead of money and accept that as a resource.
Theory crafting this game is what I do for fun. Are you suggesting people be paid for their time spent on entertainment?
ROFL I hope this was a troll
Totally agree. With clones nobody (not even devs) was complaining. Why? Requires a lot of effort in farming toons, gear and specially mods. That is what gives money.
However, when the same happen with 3 easy to farm toons, relatively easy to gear (compared to leia+clones) with no need of godly mods, then whales start to complain, and devs react within hours, because the game is "out of balance", or is not "working as intended".
Sure. If instead of Nute were a new shiny exclusive toon, that need to spend several hundred bucks to 7*, would they have reacted the same? I bet not.
Legitimate question. If this gets fixed it is most definitely a nerf, which the devs said they were done with. No bug fix to hide behind. Just a straight, "we goofed, and made something stronger than we meant to" nerf.
I'm in favor of leaving it as is, but I understand their point of view. But other than maybe a few million credits, and a few crystals to compensate players who 7 stared their Nute just for this I'm not sure what else should be required to make it right.
This team required, and was actually BETTER, with a very minimal blue gear Nute, and only needed some half finished Jawas. And nobody is getting compensation for time spent thinking about playing a game. That's just silly.
I think you're on to something. Rancor should be sim-able once you've full cleared it once, it'll save everyone time, and since the rewards are based on player ID, the guild will be working together for the common good of the guys with the lowest ID anyway.
Statistically we are probably FTP. So let's assume for a moment we are.
Why I think as a FTP something should he changed: HAAT is the single game mode that requires players to develop a large roster (even there it is up to some level).
Whales are mostly the carry of their guild, so what now, if the whales don't need to even spend money to carry the guild? Revenue goes down.
In the end, this game is also a business and we need to find a good balance between fun and revenue.
Nutinni/Lugo Neuter is clearly effecting their future income and thus the future content of the game as well. Is this something as a player base really want?
I agree that HAAT should be made easier to clear, and in way it has been with the numerous Zeta compared to November. I am happy if they keep Nutinni, but I am convinced that this team is like an enhencment drug for guilds who use it to clear HAAT: you will regret it over the long-term.
I know there are lots of posts about this already, but most of them have gone so off-topic that I felt it might be necessary to start a new one. This one is directed at both the players and developers.
Now let's get to the point (in another lengthy post).
From a developmental standpoint, there are 2 basic ways of looking at any video game: as a product your company sells, and as entertainment your company provides (there's a possible 3rd way to look at it, which is as a social/political statement or work of art, but that's not relevant to this issue, so I'm not gonna touch it). As long as people enjoy your game and you provide a decent way for them to give you money, you're golden. It's all about balancing costs at that point. But wait, what does that have to do with Lugo?
Let's assume that EA does do quite a bit of testing before they release new content. Users have begun referring to the community as a bunch of beta-testers in a truly pejorative sense, but the truth is that this self-labelling is just an outward exertion of our frustration that the game keeps changing due to our perception that EA is releasing content without testing it extensively beforehand. I would urge us to consider that this point is both true and false. EA does TONS of testing, but their team is limited in number. The player-base, on the other hand, is literally millions of people. To put it into perspective, let's say EA has 100 people whose job is exclusively to test new content before it's release, and let's round out the player base to an even 1 million. That would mean that each of the EA employees testing the game would have to put in 10,000 hours of work to equate the player-base playing the game for 1 hour. Now, those are just arbitrary numbers I selected to make a point, but the reality is probably more extreme. EA most likely has far fewer that 100 people dedicated to testing, and the player-base is well over 1 million. This means that it is highly unlikely that EA will be able to foresee and test each and every possible way players will use the game. Considering that the plan for raids has always been to create a 5-character team, I find it very easy to imagine a circumstance in which the Nute-led jawa duo was never even conceptualized.
So, that's me letting EA off the hook for not catching this, and several other strategies, ahead of time (looking at you, Kylo-soloing P1 and Maul soloing P2-P4 in NAAT before the fix). You may disagree, and you're certainly entitled to do so.
Either way, here we are. From EA's standpoint, a player figured out how to "game the system" in a way that was never intended. From the user standpoint, Lugo played the game like a puzzle that needed to be solved, and he found a rather ingenious solution that nobody else had seen before.
Now let's connect all the dots.
EA creates new content for the game and does loads of internal testing. The new content works, with a few tweaks along the way. EA makes money and provides entertainment for its users. But EA doesn't have the man-hours to match the millions of people who play the game every day. MONTHS later, one of the millions of players comes up with a fun trick to tackle the new content. After that trick is discovered, it disseminates throughout the user base, allowing more people to make use of the trick, and (here's the really important part) continue to play the content and spend money in the game anyway.
So what should EA do with Lugo and his Nute/Jawa strategy?
Nothing. Just let it go. Focus on the upcoming content, and keep looking forward. Continue to provide new things for us to play and reasons for us to spend.
If EA decides to, they can apply what they've learned from this experience in several ways:
1) Invite Lugo and many of the other well-documented theory-crafters to become official beta-testers of new content before its release.
2) Allow any user to apply to become an official beta-tester
3) Require that all raid teams be made up of 5 characters, and auto-enroll all guild members at 0 damage in new raids.
There are many many many other things to learn from Lugo's discovery. It will be very interesting to see how EA decides to handle it.
How do they use this to clear p3
I never said it was not a resource. In this game you pay to advance in money or in time. Doesn't change the fact that this team finishes the most challenging game mode on auto with a tiny fraction of the time or money most players invested to building teams for that same game mode.
They didn't need to, because the Rocket Droid counterattack eventually ends the loop.