I realized something about The Force Awakens.
If it wasn't Star Wars, I wouldn't have liked it.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
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I mean, was I the only one who f***ing loved that scene between poe and finn in the TIE fighter? In the span of just a few minutes, we learn about their characters, their personalities, what their goals are, and how they react to dangerous situations, all during a great, engaging action scene. Maybe I’m wrong, but I didnt love that scene just because its star wars, i loved it because its a great scene in its own right.
Consider Rogue One on the other hand. Yes, it probably has the best executed action scenes in the franchise from a technical standpoint, but when I ask people what their favorite scenes are, they usually talk about Darth Vader, the dogfight at the end (which has 0 important characters involved, so who cares), or everything at the end that leads into ANH.
If anything, TFA would have worked better if it wasn’t star wars at all. Most of the problems people have with it seem to come from how it fits (or doesn’t fit) in the Star Wars universe.
Lucas set out to make a saga, not a series of independent films that are linked with minor Easter eggs. TFA was a reworking or ANH, but the whole genre of Science Fiction is essentially built on a singular set of metaphors being recycled and updated to make them compelling in a new and different way. How is the story of annakin-Vader-Anakin much different, metaphorically speaking, than the biblical stories of fall and redemption?
The only reason ANH ends with the destruction of the Death Star, closing the story in a sense, is because Lucas wasn’t sure he would get funding for the rest of the saga, not because he wanted a closed story.
+1
Well ... Fellowship of the Ring did not tell a complete story, but it was excellent.
Well there you go. For all of its faults, TFA resonantes with fans and non-fans alike
When I introduce my significant other to The Star Wars movies I will also introduce her into this game. Before we see the last Jedi. We’re bingeing all the other StarWars movies!!
Actually it does. Each book/movie in the series fully leads up to the next movie, while simultaneously relieving the tension of that chapter's sub plots. At the end of fellowship, we still have to get rid of the ring, but Frodo is safe from the sickness that ailed him as a result of being stabbed by one of the nine, and the hobbits have successfully gotten themselves to the relative safety of Rivendell. We aren't just left hanging at the end. (The first hobbit movie left us hanging too. The second one gave us at least a decent cliff hanger.)
I don't have a problem with the use of nostalgia, just a problem with the reliance on it.
I wasn't saying there wouldn't be exceptions, but the vast majority of people today are familiar with the Star Wars story even if they haven't seen the movies.
You weren’t engaged by any of the new characters? They carried the movie for me. I couldn’t care less about the returning cast.
Applying the parameters to ESB, and we find that despite all the peril our heroes were in throughout the movie, they are all safe at the end, but looking forward to the key plots of the next movie: saving Han and how Luke will deal with Vader.
It leaves us wanting more, but the tension has dissipated for the time being. TFA just leaves us going "WHAT WILL LUKE SAY!?"
And the worst part about that is after waiting 40 years to hear Luke again, the first time we hear him...is in the trailer for the next film. Seriously? What a wasted opportunity!
Finn was the only one that really got me interested.
I like Poe but he wasn't used enough.
Rey was a straight up Mary Sue. I don't care how powerful she is meant to be, she shouldn't be able to successfully use a jedi mind trick on her 3rd try without even really knowing anything about the force.
Maz Kanata was...whatever.
BB-8 was just them trying to make a cuter R2-D2 to sell more toys. BB-8 doesn't have the same personality that R2 always had.
Kylo was ok, but I had to learn to like his character. He wasn't a likable villain after my first viewing of the movie. I do like where his character can be taken, but that only speaks the fact that he could be good in the series and not in just the standalone movie.
Phasma is the last "major" new character I can think of, and she was just flat out stupid. For as much as she appeared in the marketing she had such a lame and insignificant role.
It's funny to me that we are total opposites on this. I liked Rogue One because the characters were more well developed overall (except Cassian and Saw, they tried to do too much with too little time where their characters were concerned).
The plot, even though most of us know that they succeed, was still entertaining. It was compelling!
And even though my favorite scene was still Vader's hallway, I think that's due to the fact that Vader is one of the best villains in film history and many of us desperately wanted to see him whaling on some regular fools instead of just his duels with Kenobi and Luke. That one scene was really the only significant fan service in the movie, and I thought it was merited. The movie also didn't rely on our nostalgia. I think as a standalone movie it works far better than TFA.
Actually this is the only part I strongly disagree with. My theory is that it's meant to be a compilation of all three of the OT movies.
Luke and Rey, both orphans from desert planets that are caught up into larger conflicts because each finds a droid carrying crucial and top secret information needed to stop an evil organization. Each is unaware of his/her true heritage, though that heritage will become vitally important in the subsequent film. Each one meets a mentor (Old Ben/Han respectively) who sacrifices himself in the final act for the greater good and to help the hero escape. Oh and each one must duel the arch-villain (Vader in the trench run, Kylo outside SK base) in the midst of their organizations last ditch effort to destroy the spherical super weapon created by an evil space Third Reich . That about cover the major plot points of ANH and TFA?
Remind me how this isn't a beat for beat retelling? There is even a rescue from the superweapon, though this time the parallel is Leia and Rey.
That was a great scene^
Luke "dueling" Vader wasn't mentioned until he met Yoda. But I'm not that kind of encyclopedia guy to argue in great detail, I just remember that I felt it was more of a hommage than a rehash immediately when/after seeing TFA.
Don't Forget about...
Ok, you have to admit some of those are stretches. Unkar Plutt as jawas? Poe as Wedge? Teedo (assuming thats the creature that tries to steal bb8) as tusken raiders? The antagonist is beaten? And “a character uses the force to defeat the antagonist”? This is star wars. People are going to use the force. And who is Sabine Natal?
He meant Bazine Netal.
Yeah, TFA is a soft reboot of ANH... For better or for worse
-Sun Tzu
TFA sucks, l am with you
I still dont know who or what bazine netal is
Same bro
The weird looking chick from TFA who informed the First Order about BB-8:
-Sun Tzu
How is she greedo? Wouldn't she be more akin to snout guy?
No. She's not. Of all the arguments against TFA this is the one that bothers me the most.
Anakin - uses force precognition to pilot podracers (a thing a Jedi says humans generally can't do) before he knows the force is even a thing.
Luke - Recieves the profound training of an old man telling him to "stretch out with [his] feelings" and proceeds to blindly block three blaster bolts and bend a full speed torpedo 90 degrees down a two meter tube, a feet that's "impossible, even for a computer"
Starkiller - Rips the lightsaber out of Darth Vader's hand (!) when he's like 2 years old.
Reven - Has his mind completely wiped and proceeds to relearn all his abilities and come back even stronger with minimal (if any) training.
Solo twins (Old EU) - have a two way connection with their mother in utero... among multiple other feats before they are sent off to study with their uncle.
Rey is not a Mary Sue. In fact the force abilities she accomplishes are straight up tame compared to some of the things other powerful force users accomplish with little to no training (the Jedi taught mind trick to younglings... which seems like a terrible idea, but that's neither here nor there). If you have a problem with the things Rey does, you don't have a problem with Rey, you have a problem with Star Wars...
What about using Jedi Mind Tricks, and mind-reading Kylo? That scene is the main source of the Mary Sue argument. Remember, Rey has had NO training and barely knows what the Force is.