Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
And then we pair ep, and vader with the Sith assassin
Unlimited speed!
I believe the term you were looking for was:
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Amidst the rise of the Rebellion, darkness finally rises to meet it. The Power of the Dark Side reigns supreme as Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader see various updates to their abilities! For a sneak peek of what's in store please see the updated character Strategy post links below.
Still not enough? Then check out some videos made by your fellow players for some exclusive gameplay below.
Hey, I assume this update will take place on the 8th during of the Emperor’s Demise event. If so, the Emperor and Darth Vader will have these abilities when we fight them as Rebels right?
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
However, Cleaning now hurts the opponent.
Yeap it's the only change that could help against JTR but will it be sufficient? Especially when lots of foresights prevents inflicting debuffs.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
However, Cleaning now hurts the opponent.
Yeap it's the only change that could help against JTR but will it be sufficient? Especially when lots of foresights prevents inflicting debuffs.
I don't think hurting JTR was ever the intention of this buff. More likely the intention was to make sure CLS meta really becomes obsolete and people have to strive (and spend) to get JTR.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
However, Cleaning now hurts the opponent.
Yeap it's the only change that could help against JTR but will it be sufficient? Especially when lots of foresights prevents inflicting debuffs.
I don't think hurting JTR was ever the intention of this buff. More likely the intention was to make sure CLS meta really becomes obsolete and people have to strive (and spend) to get JTR.
That's what i'm saying and i'm not happy about it. Most iconic characters of SW are getting rework with zetas but they won't be the new meta. I hope that sith rumors are true.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
However, Cleaning now hurts the opponent.
Yeap it's the only change that could help against JTR but will it be sufficient? Especially when lots of foresights prevents inflicting debuffs.
I don't think hurting JTR was ever the intention of this buff. More likely the intention was to make sure CLS meta really becomes obsolete and people have to strive (and spend) to get JTR.
That's what i'm saying and i'm not happy about it. Most iconic characters of SW are getting rework with zetas but they won't be the new meta. I hope that sith rumors are true.
If it's true, it might change a lot. And given how Kozi hyped up the update, comparing it to Nihilus release and all, I would say it is.
Great update against previous CLS meta, should still work against NS, but against JTR meta we will need at least one new strong toon to make a sith/empire based arena viable
JTR already has a counter. They came out before she was even released. The Nightsisters are the JTR/BB8/R2 META counter. The Empire can now be the major counter to CLS Rebels and Nightsisters. The Rebels can still hang as they can beat Troopers, Zaul, and Rex teams.
JTR already has a counter. They came out before she was even released. The Nightsisters are the JTR/BB8/R2 META counter. The Empire can now be the major counter to CLS Rebels and Nightsisters. The Rebels can still hang as they can beat Troopers, Zaul, and Rex teams.
Why do people say NS are the counter to JTR? I've NEVER had a problem destoying NS squads with my JTR team. Granted, I use Raid Han on my squad but still. Obviously the NS can win on offense but it seems that lots of people have problems with NS while running Rey on offense and I just don't get it.
CLONE HELMETS!! Now let's get Sabine her epic helmet.
These two reworks counter CLS and judging by the videos, counter Nightsisters fairly easily. These reworks also make it possible to defeat the nonsense that was General Zarriss and will allow Empire/Sith to battle JTR with decent success.
Big win.
CLONE HELMETS!! Now let's get Sabine her epic helmet.
Wht? Rex strikes back? Do u guys not read any of these post? Cleansing now hurts u an helps vader so why in any universe or far far away galaxy would u think rex will be good counter against this lol. Rex will be useless as vader will ability blk him n keep him from usin his tenacity up but if he does use it then blam empire heals n gains all tht turn mtr to immediately mess u up. So embrace the darkside. Its fun.
Wht? Rex strikes back? Do u guys not read any of these post? Cleansing now hurts u an helps vader so why in any universe or far far away galaxy would u think rex will be good counter against this lol. Rex will be useless as vader will ability blk him n keep him from usin his tenacity up but if he does use it then blam empire heals n gains all tht turn mtr to immediately mess u up. So embrace the darkside. Its fun.
Wht? Rex strikes back? Do u guys not read any of these post? Cleansing now hurts u an helps vader so why in any universe or far far away galaxy would u think rex will be good counter against this lol. Rex will be useless as vader will ability blk him n keep him from usin his tenacity up but if he does use it then blam empire heals n gains all tht turn mtr to immediately mess u up. So embrace the darkside. Its fun.
Tenacity up will stop the debuffs and the TM.
You'll need a super quick rex to get that in before Vader goes as he will have all his bonus speed
Wht? Rex strikes back? Do u guys not read any of these post? Cleansing now hurts u an helps vader so why in any universe or far far away galaxy would u think rex will be good counter against this lol. Rex will be useless as vader will ability blk him n keep him from usin his tenacity up but if he does use it then blam empire heals n gains all tht turn mtr to immediately mess u up. So embrace the darkside. Its fun.
Tenacity up will stop the debuffs and the TM.
With Vader's new speed buff, Vader will go before Rex now - not after.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
I can already one shot BB8 with SA on a Zaul ignoring protection.
Also, its not the 3% health... its the 5% TM for every debuff that expires. That means a lot of 100% TM feeds plus an already super fast DV. Even the JTR squads are using 2 or 3 Rebels/Jedi minimum.
Most will disagree with me but i think both zetas will be useless against current meta. Ok they will be good counter to CLS and NS teams but I don't see much CLS teams at top 50 all JTR and few NS. There is only 2 or 3 CLS teams. At least it's like this at old shards. We needed counter to JTR teams and I'm not sure this is it.
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
I can already one shot BB8 with SA on a Zaul ignoring protection.
Also, its not the 3% health... its the 5% TM for every debuff that expires. That means a lot of 100% TM feeds plus an already super fast DV. Even the JTR squads are using 2 or 3 Rebels/Jedi minimum.
This ^
While I have yet to encounter JTR teams, which use more than the occasional CLS or Obi Wan / GK, I fully agree with this. People don’t seem to get % values... was the same with JTR first.
Replies
This.
Just a yes or no it's enough.
But I bet it will be live for the 8th Wednesday night for Europeans. After TW lock
Everybody was complaining about Emperor's fragility but you will still have to protect him with decent tanks. 50 percent protection up won't help too much. Dealing 20 percent health damage is also kinda useless since protection has much more stats. Maybe it'd help at the end game but if you can come this much you probably will win already. I'd rather see more protection based abilities. Even that removing refreshing shock ability from Emperor is a big downside. I'm already using him at arena and I'd prefer refreshing shock to Crackling Doom zeta.
Also Vader won't be efficient against JTR teams. Even his huge speed boost won't reach to bb8 jtr r2d2's speed.
So i think they will be 2nd best meta team but won't be rival to JTR teams.
Sith assassin can kill without having to go through protection, being about to take 20-60% health each turn without having to hit through evasion up is amazing
Vader doesn't just speed up, you may have forgotten he adds speed down on his force crush.
Vader can already hit through evasion on his basic and his saber throw.
Palpatine Zeta adds +35% health to all empire and Sith allies
Palpatine gains 150% of health damage done on let the hate flow and gains health steal up
Sith recover 20% health when they inflict a debuff
Did you not read the upgrades?
Same plan for me, different reason : Vader has a ship
I believe the term you were looking for was:
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Hey, I assume this update will take place on the 8th during of the Emperor’s Demise event. If so, the Emperor and Darth Vader will have these abilities when we fight them as Rebels right?
Yes. Provided all his debuffs stick.
Most of thing you wrote are old abilities. %3 change of max health is kinda nothing. Health steal up is also not a big deal. Speed down will be cleansed easily by r2d2's zeta. None of them will help beating to JTR teams. I don't think that 20 percent damage can pass through protection if you meant to this.
However, Cleaning now hurts the opponent.
Yeap it's the only change that could help against JTR but will it be sufficient? Especially when lots of foresights prevents inflicting debuffs.
Rex strikes back?
I don't think hurting JTR was ever the intention of this buff. More likely the intention was to make sure CLS meta really becomes obsolete and people have to strive (and spend) to get JTR.
That's what i'm saying and i'm not happy about it. Most iconic characters of SW are getting rework with zetas but they won't be the new meta. I hope that sith rumors are true.
If it's true, it might change a lot. And given how Kozi hyped up the update, comparing it to Nihilus release and all, I would say it is.
Why do people say NS are the counter to JTR? I've NEVER had a problem destoying NS squads with my JTR team. Granted, I use Raid Han on my squad but still. Obviously the NS can win on offense but it seems that lots of people have problems with NS while running Rey on offense and I just don't get it.
Big win.
Tenacity up will stop the debuffs and the TM.
You'll need a super quick rex to get that in before Vader goes as he will have all his bonus speed
With Vader's new speed buff, Vader will go before Rex now - not after.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Could be 4 or 5 different arena viable sqauds at same time
I hope so. And that’s the way it should be in all honesty.
I can already one shot BB8 with SA on a Zaul ignoring protection.
Also, its not the 3% health... its the 5% TM for every debuff that expires. That means a lot of 100% TM feeds plus an already super fast DV. Even the JTR squads are using 2 or 3 Rebels/Jedi minimum.
This ^
While I have yet to encounter JTR teams, which use more than the occasional CLS or Obi Wan / GK, I fully agree with this. People don’t seem to get % values... was the same with JTR first.
Rex will not alone, he will accompany with zR2, chirrut, GK. There's small percentage vader AI will targeted rex first. It's random.
Also remember.. what's good on text doesn't guarantee good on reality