You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
edit: To be clear. JTR is probably going to do less dmg procentagewise because of the nerf on exposes, but NOT because of the reduced health.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
Honestly it took me more than a few minutes to formulate it well, this topic is quite sensitive and blurry...
But the bottom line is, the rage stems from the fact that JTR is the ONLY viable option for the sith raid, and they are nerfing expose, one of the primary JTR mechanics.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
Honestly it took me more than a few minutes to formulate it well, this topic is quite sensitive and blurry...
But the bottom line is, the rage stems from the fact that JTR is the ONLY viable option for the sith raid, and they are nerfing expose, one of the primary JTR mechanics.
I understand why people don't like the nerf on expose. I don't like the nerf on expose.
I'm only pointing out the flawed reasoning. It's okay to not like something, but disliking something for the wrong reason is just stoopid imo.
@CG_RyDiggs today is the day to jump back into this thing. Hopefully a three day weekend gave you time to talk to the team and come back with some good news. I won’t repeat what so many others have already said except about rewards.
There’s no reason for certain challenge gear to be a part of the heroic rewards. Say what you want about millions needing gear like the mk5 medpac salvage and mk8 biotech salvage but that’s a blatant lie. When players are ready to take on the heroic sith raid that requires G12 squads with many zeta abilities, they won’t need that worthless gear that they have thousands of from challenges.
You call for trust from the player base that these changes will be better for the game in the long run. Well, trust is a two way street. Trust us when WE say that WE don’t need worthless gear as raid rewards, and maybe we can trust you when it comes to announcements like this.
NO ONE needs challenge gear other than Carbanti's. Therefore I propose that all challenge gear drops are replaced by Carbanti's.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
Honestly it took me more than a few minutes to formulate it well, this topic is quite sensitive and blurry...
But the bottom line is, the rage stems from the fact that JTR is the ONLY viable option for the sith raid, and they are nerfing expose, one of the primary JTR mechanics.
I understand why people don't like the nerf on expose. I don't like the nerf on expose.
I'm only pointing out the flawed reasoning. It's okay to not like something, but disliking something for the wrong reason is just stoopid imo.
It is what it is. Somebody yells WITCH and suddenly you are on the stake and feel warm around your feet. Reason all you want the point of view wont change once it's set on something the peasants can latch on to.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
Close but not quite.
Symptom: Expose/% health damage is the mechanic available.
Cause: Ridiculous Tenacity stacking rendering other mechanics useless.
It all comes back to that. Expose/Deathmark/raising and lowering health or damage/whatever- it's all worthless if you can't affect the raid.
In the end, instead of Expose teams doing 4 mil and everyone else does 1 mil, changing it all so it does 3 and 2 doesn't fix anything
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
6. RESTATED from OP:
Recognizing this change has an impact on overall balance, we will be lowering the health of the Sith Triumvirate Raid slightly as well to bring it more inline with our intended design.
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
Honestly it took me more than a few minutes to formulate it well, this topic is quite sensitive and blurry...
But the bottom line is, the rage stems from the fact that JTR is the ONLY viable option for the sith raid, and they are nerfing expose, one of the primary JTR mechanics.
I'll take it a step further and say jrey was only team that was somewhat fun to use in the raid. Seems to me they are just dumbing the raid down even further and it'll be just hit the boss and die and repeat with no interesting gameplay to use as a strategy. It needs a fun factor to it and it is insane that they want to remove the only team that accomplished that.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
Close but not quite.
Symptom: Expose/% health damage is the mechanic available.
Cause: Ridiculous Tenacity stacking rendering other mechanics useless.
It all comes back to that. Expose/Deathmark/raising and lowering health or damage/whatever- it's all worthless if you can't affect the raid.
In the end, instead of Expose teams doing 4 mil and everyone else does 1 mil, changing it all so it does 3 and 2 doesn't fix anything
Right, so you think people would have called JTR unballanced compared to other teams if she was doing 3mil while other teams were doing 2mil? Especially when those 2m and 3mil weren't just 1.3% and 2% dmg respectively, but more percentages worth of dmg. You can't honestly believe that.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
Agree. Reducing health won't achieve anything. It might be more beatable, but the tactic remains the same. Chip away, chip away, chip away.
If they want tactics to be viable then nerfing everything with tenacity isn't a way to promote varying strategies.
not nerfing tenacity doesn't promote varying strategies either, you could just run your rancor and AAT squads.
I think you meant to disagree with me but instead worded as if agreeing with me?
And no you wouldn't just run your rancor and aat squads. Make them immune to to TM reduction and tenacity down. Make each phase variable in regards to what buffs and debuffs may or may not work, make the minions actually do something unique or useful. There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
Yea, i meant to disagree.
You say it's easy, but it's not. Your suggestion sounds nice in comparrison to how it is now, but if it was like that from the get go without making the raid easier, you would have suggested something different. It's all relative.
Also, they desinged the raid for us to chip away, chip away, chip away. They made that very clear.
edit: To be honest, i mainly responded to your post because you said reducing health won't achieve anything in response to that other guys post. That annoys me to no end because reducing health is exactly what buffs every other team relative to JTR and Deathtrooper teams, all while making the raid easier to tackle.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
You wanna make other teams do better? Open up more options to team build- eliminate stacking Tenacity. Very simple. Bringing one team down to mediocrity isn't the answer, raising the mediocre to at least promising is.
As I've stated before, the % health skills aren't the disease- they're the symptom. When they're the ONLY option, they can't be shocked when those teams are doing much better. We don't have other options, save flinging **** at a wall and being surprised when it's not effective.
The health based damage being way higher than regular damage is indeed the symptom, but a symptom of the raidbosses having a fudge ton of health.
Lowering the health (significantly) would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg.
"only" doing 1mil damage is not a problem at all if that 1mi damage accounts for 25% of the phase. Regular damage isn't affected by the raidboss health reduction, so percentagewise you're going to do more damage.
"Significantly", yes. "Slightly", is what we're getting.
significantly would bring health based dmg on par with regular dmg. 60k per expose isn't exactly on par with normal damage. In order for it to be even close to on par with regular damage the raid boss' health needs to be reduced significantly, not slightly. significantly being an understatement.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period.
So, you're fine with no strategy other than "chip away"? That's counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game. "Build your squad to tackle the challenges of holotable"? I might as well randomly pick 5 toons and hit auto. I don't want **** hard, I want challenging hard.
Allow us to actually use our roster, instead of merely depleting it.
Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
Close but not quite.
Symptom: Expose/% health damage is the mechanic available.
Cause: Ridiculous Tenacity stacking rendering other mechanics useless.
It all comes back to that. Expose/Deathmark/raising and lowering health or damage/whatever- it's all worthless if you can't affect the raid.
In the end, instead of Expose teams doing 4 mil and everyone else does 1 mil, changing it all so it does 3 and 2 doesn't fix anything
Right, so you think people would have called JTR unballanced compared to other teams if she was doing 3mil while other teams were doing 2mil? Especially when those 2m and 3mil weren't just 1.3% and 2% dmg respectively, but more percentages worth of dmg. You can't honestly believe that.
JTR isn't the problem, Expose isn't the problem, percentages, health, damage- none of that is the problem. They SEEM to be the problem because the way the raid is designed. They SEEM out of proportion because the raid nullifies 95% of toon negative mechanics. You can't honestly believe Nihilis is balanced, and a mere health tweak will fix it. Sure, you may SEEM to get more damage out of non JTR teams, but it's still flinging toons against the wall. If no abilities affect it, due to ridiculous Tenacity stacking, there is no theory crafting, there is no point if synergy between toons, there is no point at all.
Edit: Also, to the guy who stated CG wants roster diversity... running more teams jist for the sake of more teams isn't diversity. Allowing more effective teams based in skills that actually may work is.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
not difficult =/= easy ?
i'm fine with the who cares folder. Point is that while it may be true for you personally, it's definately not true for everyone commenting in this thread, i hope you realize that. If straight up dmg could do 5% dmg it would have been alot less anoying that other mechanics didn't "work".
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Or Phoenix in phase 1, which felt great because their resilience felt like I was hitting on something that was supposed to work - but then clocked in garbage damage because of the protection mechanic. STR robs me of these little victories.
Tank and Rancor felt gratifying because there was a pretty clear line between "teams that actually work" and "teams that clearly don't work". But certain parts of STR in particular, the line between "didn't work" and "did work" is a couple hundred thousand damage while watching them dismantle your team.
I know the best fit teams will be found, but it was quite nice to have one team that could clearly perform well, even if your other attempts didn't pan out.
JTR isn't the problem, Expose isn't the problem, percentages, health, damage- none of that is the problem. They SEEM to be the problem because the way the raid is designed. They SEEM out of proportion because the raid nullifies 95% of toon negative mechanics. You can't honestly believe Nihilis is balanced, and a mere health tweak will fix it. Sure, you may SEEM to get more damage out of non JTR teams, but it's still flinging toons against the wall. If no abilities affect it, due to ridiculous Tenacity stacking, there is no theory crafting, there is no point if synergy between toons, there is no point at all.
Edit: Also, to the guy who stated CG wants roster diversity... running more teams jist for the sake of more teams isn't diversity. Allowing more effective teams based in skills that actually may work is.
There's theory crafting, there's a point in having synergy. You're just too caught up to recognize it. Partly because JTR blew evertying out of the water, wich made it seem like any other team was pretty much useless in comparrison. JTR did so because of two things. 1) exposes dealt a rediculous amount of dmg. 2) her exposes were unresistable. Remove one of the 2 and it's just an above average team.
Also, I would completely fine with reducing Expose/% health damage, it has never been my main gripe. IF they also reduced the stacking Tenacity as well, which is my main gripe. Let us actually use our debuffing toons.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
not difficult =/= easy ?
i'm fine with the who cares folder. Point is that while it may be true for you personally, it's definately not true for everyone commenting in this thread, i hope you realize that. If straight up dmg could do 5% dmg it would have been alot less anoying that other mechanics didn't "work".
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Clearly if the health were lower there would be less complaints. For me personally, dropping health so I have to use 1-2 less teams isn't going to make the raid any more enjoyable or make me want to spend any time on it.
What they designed the raid for was engagement. People aren't feeling engaged. That's a problem. A slight health drop is unlikely to fix that and even a large health drop would do little other than make the raid just another thing to do rather than something to enjoy.
Yes some would be happy with less health and extra damage, but I'm not one of them if it's repetitive and boring.
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Or Phoenix in phase 1, which felt great because their resilience felt like I was hitting on something that was supposed to work - but then clocked in garbage damage because of the protection mechanic. STR robs me of these little victories.
Tank and Rancor felt gratifying because there was a pretty clear line between "teams that actually work" and "teams that clearly don't work". But certain parts of STR in particular, the line between "didn't work" and "did work" is a couple hundred thousand damage while watching them dismantle your team.
I know the best fit teams will be found, but it was quite nice to have one team that could clearly perform well, even if your other attempts didn't pan out.
Hey, no argument from me there ! I'm not saying the raid is perfect.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
not difficult =/= easy ?
i'm fine with the who cares folder. Point is that while it may be true for you personally, it's definately not true for everyone commenting in this thread, i hope you realize that. If straight up dmg could do 5% dmg it would have been alot less anoying that other mechanics didn't "work".
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Clearly if the health were lower there would be less complaints. For me personally, dropping health so I have to use 1-2 less teams isn't going to make the raid any more enjoyable or make me want to spend any time on it.
What they designed the raid for was engagement. People aren't feeling engaged. That's a problem. A slight health drop is unlikely to fix that and even a large health drop would do little other than make the raid just another thing to do rather than something to enjoy.
Yes some would be happy with less health and extra damage, but I'm not one of them if it's repetitive and boring.
The slight drop in health ins't going to solve all the problems players have with this raid, but can we atleast agree that the incredibly large health pool is the main reason people complain? Look at viserys' post, another great example of the dmg being so low that it makes using the team unfun. There are probably quite a few examples out there of teams that actually work, but aren't recognized as working teams because the dmg is so gosh darn low. (especially compared to the numbers JTR was pulling). It's all relative. RTJ isn't more fun to use, but seeying those 10m+ scores makes her way more fun to use.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
There's so many combinations of powers that it wouldn't be difficult to come up with something different other than "blanket tenacity, buff and debuff resistance".
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
not difficult =/= easy ?
i'm fine with the who cares folder. Point is that while it may be true for you personally, it's definately not true for everyone commenting in this thread, i hope you realize that. If straight up dmg could do 5% dmg it would have been alot less anoying that other mechanics didn't "work".
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Clearly if the health were lower there would be less complaints. For me personally, dropping health so I have to use 1-2 less teams isn't going to make the raid any more enjoyable or make me want to spend any time on it.
What they designed the raid for was engagement. People aren't feeling engaged. That's a problem. A slight health drop is unlikely to fix that and even a large health drop would do little other than make the raid just another thing to do rather than something to enjoy.
Yes some would be happy with less health and extra damage, but I'm not one of them if it's repetitive and boring.
The slight drop in health ins't going to solve all the problems players have with this raid, but can we atleast agree that the incredibly large health pool is the main reason people complain? Look at viserys' post, another great example of the dmg being so low that it makes using the team unfun. There are probably quite a few examples out there of teams that actually work, but aren't recognized as working teams because the dmg is so gosh darn low. (especially compared to the numbers JTR was pulling). It's all relative. RTJ isn't more fun to use, but seeying those 10m+ scores makes her way more fun to use.
I think the drop in health will encourage people to at least try again, but at best it might be a short term spike of interest when everything else remains the same.
What else really needs to be done atleast from a perception pov is either change the lower tier raids to reflect the recommended toons or just get rid of it so people can't see the recommendations.
I think people are weary. We all remember the jump from NAAT to HAAT and how nothing worked and we had to relearn what worked in HAAT. Because of this nobody (at least in my guild) finds theory crafting worthwhile on lower tiers. Most are content to hang back, wait for other people to figure it out then stsrt working on the toons from there.
But mainly just change the recommendations. Nothing fans the flames more than people feeling they're being misled.
I think the drop in health will encourage people to at least try again, but at best it might be a short term spike of interest when everything else remains the same.
What else really needs to be done atleast from a perception pov is either change the lower tier raids to reflect the recommended toons or just get rid of it so people can't see the recommendations.
I think people are weary. We all remember the jump from NAAT to HAAT and how nothing worked and we had to relearn what worked in HAAT. Because of this nobody (at least in my guild) finds theory crafting worthwhile on lower tiers. Most are content to hang back, wait for other people to figure it out then stsrt working on the toons from there.
But mainly just change the recommendations. Nothing fans the flames more than people feeling they're being misled.
Who the fudge cares about the freaking recommendations? That's just something you blame when things go south. Sure, they don't make sence, but they never made sence. But seriously, that's like the last thing they need to worry about.
Do we know when the hot fix is going into place, or if it already has gone into place? If it has, can anyone tell me if a HAAT started on Thursday night would have been effected by the hot fix?
Do we know when the hot fix is going into place, or if it already has gone into place? If it has, can anyone tell me if a HAAT started on Thursday night would have been effected by the hot fix?
I think the drop in health will encourage people to at least try again, but at best it might be a short term spike of interest when everything else remains the same.
What else really needs to be done atleast from a perception pov is either change the lower tier raids to reflect the recommended toons or just get rid of it so people can't see the recommendations.
I think people are weary. We all remember the jump from NAAT to HAAT and how nothing worked and we had to relearn what worked in HAAT. Because of this nobody (at least in my guild) finds theory crafting worthwhile on lower tiers. Most are content to hang back, wait for other people to figure it out then stsrt working on the toons from there.
But mainly just change the recommendations. Nothing fans the flames more than people feeling they're being misled.
Who the fudge cares about the freaking recommendations? That's just something you blame when things go south. Sure, they don't make sence, but they never made sence. But seriously, that's like the last thing they need to worry about.
I'm not even going to go into it other than say perception is reality. I know that doesn't fit with your style of making sweeping generalisation but hey, there's plenty of posts in this thread alone of people frustrated with the recommendations.
You can dismiss them all you want, but an angry and frustrated player is still angry and frustrated even if you don't approve of their reasoning.
Yeah, it's definitely the stacking tenacity that is the problem, and it seems like an easily replaceable one. Either remove it and make all bosses immune to resistable TM reduction, or greatly reduce it for any debuff that isn't TM reduction (+10% stacking ten, +30%for TM reduction). The bosses are already immune to most debuffs, so that just leaves offense down, defense down, speed down, therm dets, DoT, deathmark, and expose. When they take damage, they gain 5% TM and 30 speed, so even TM gain teams will fall eventually. The Sion phase is easily the best designed phase of the raid, and sion is immune to TM reduction.
TM reduction is what allows raids to be soloed, not debuffs, so why not single that out and fix it?
JTR isn't the problem, Expose isn't the problem, percentages, health, damage- none of that is the problem. They SEEM to be the problem because the way the raid is designed. They SEEM out of proportion because the raid nullifies 95% of toon negative mechanics. You can't honestly believe Nihilis is balanced, and a mere health tweak will fix it. Sure, you may SEEM to get more damage out of non JTR teams, but it's still flinging toons against the wall. If no abilities affect it, due to ridiculous Tenacity stacking, there is no theory crafting, there is no point if synergy between toons, there is no point at all.
Edit: Also, to the guy who stated CG wants roster diversity... running more teams jist for the sake of more teams isn't diversity. Allowing more effective teams based in skills that actually may work is.
There's theory crafting, there's a point in having synergy. You're just too caught up to recognize it. Partly because JTR blew evertying out of the water, wich made it seem like any other team was pretty much useless in comparrison. JTR did so because of two things. 1) exposes dealt a rediculous amount of dmg. 2) her exposes were unresistable. Remove one of the 2 and it's just an above average team.
You're almost there. JTR wasn't better than other teams because of expose, other teams were worse because the mechanics stifled their use. Making everybody worse is never an option.
Do we know when the hot fix is going into place, or if it already has gone into place? If it has, can anyone tell me if a HAAT started on Thursday night would have been effected by the hot fix?
Replies
Fix one, please.
Since we're only getting "slightly" it's probably not going to impact health based dmg that much, so since the cause (rediculoulsy large healthpool) isn't going to change, they're going to change the damage exposes do.
Sympton = exposes doing alot of dmg
cause = raid boss has alot of health
Reducing health isn't a nerf on exposes, period. Well, if you're doing just as much damage with 5 randoms on auto as with a team that has some thought put in it and playing on manual you just suck at the game. That, if that is the case, is not counterintuitive to the basic structure of the game, that's just lack of strategy/skill.
Please note the "if". I'm only calling you a noob IF what you say is actually true (wich i highly doubt it is).
There seems to be a lot of "diferent points of view" on double expose nerf. Mostly to be blaimed on this particular statement
What OP wanted to say: "We recognise that expose was a huge part of 1st heroic kills, so while nerfing it, we lowered the overall HP so dmg sources other than expose will be have more impact, which is what we are aiming for, more roster options and not go expose or go home"
What most people read: "We are doing the overall reducing of health pool because of the expose nerf to nerf it even more. JTR teams are the only way to go. But we wont let you go in so easily."
a poorly formulated statement led to this uproar. Nobody is recognising the fact that CG wants more roster diversity.
Yes! you're probably explaning it better than i am.
I just don't understand why anyone can't recognize the fact that exposes doing less damage due to less overall health is a good thing, especially for all the ohter non- health based dmg teams without actually hurting health based dmg teams (they're going to do more dmg percentage wise eventhough they're doing less raw dmg because the non-expose dmg does more dmg procentagewise while the exposes do the same amount of dmg procentage wise). It's like they can't see past the raw dmg numbers.
edit: To be clear. JTR is probably going to do less dmg procentagewise because of the nerf on exposes, but NOT because of the reduced health.
Honestly it took me more than a few minutes to formulate it well, this topic is quite sensitive and blurry...
But the bottom line is, the rage stems from the fact that JTR is the ONLY viable option for the sith raid, and they are nerfing expose, one of the primary JTR mechanics.
I understand why people don't like the nerf on expose. I don't like the nerf on expose.
I'm only pointing out the flawed reasoning. It's okay to not like something, but disliking something for the wrong reason is just stoopid imo.
NO ONE needs challenge gear other than Carbanti's. Therefore I propose that all challenge gear drops are replaced by Carbanti's.
It is what it is. Somebody yells WITCH and suddenly you are on the stake and feel warm around your feet. Reason all you want the point of view wont change once it's set on something the peasants can latch on to.
Close but not quite.
Symptom: Expose/% health damage is the mechanic available.
Cause: Ridiculous Tenacity stacking rendering other mechanics useless.
It all comes back to that. Expose/Deathmark/raising and lowering health or damage/whatever- it's all worthless if you can't affect the raid.
In the end, instead of Expose teams doing 4 mil and everyone else does 1 mil, changing it all so it does 3 and 2 doesn't fix anything
I'll take it a step further and say jrey was only team that was somewhat fun to use in the raid. Seems to me they are just dumbing the raid down even further and it'll be just hit the boss and die and repeat with no interesting gameplay to use as a strategy. It needs a fun factor to it and it is insane that they want to remove the only team that accomplished that.
Right, so you think people would have called JTR unballanced compared to other teams if she was doing 3mil while other teams were doing 2mil? Especially when those 2m and 3mil weren't just 1.3% and 2% dmg respectively, but more percentages worth of dmg. You can't honestly believe that.
I never said it was easy. Better solutions are rarely easy.
If the raid was actually interesting and fun I wouldn't be suggesting anything at all because I wouldn't feel the need to comment.
If they designed the raid to be boring then job done, just don't be surprised when people don't like it. That's what I meant by it won't achieve anything. Slightly easier, slightly harder. Whatever. Still the same equal portion of boring.
These changes don't buff other teams. They're feeding you sugar, calling it medicine, and you're gobbling it up. Artificially giving other teams extra damage as a "buff" doesn't change the fact that the process is the same. There are no extra tactics or options coming from these changes. They're artificial changes that won't change anything.
Yea, i don't believe you. People just whine when they don't get what they want and are comming up with all sorts of reasons to why their whining is justified. Sure, the raid could have been more fun, it's not perfect by any means. But there sure as sith wouldn't be so much whining if it had half the health as it has now. What are you even talking about? Lowering the health doesn't change the raid mechanics, no said it would. It does however "buff" the damage teams do percentagewise. Where you needed 100 teams to chip away a entire phase you might only need 90 now. How is that not a good thing?
So we agree I didn't say it would be easy. Cool.
You don't believe me? I'll file that away in the who cares folder seeing as clearly you know people and there's no debating with that.
Banging your head against a wall 90 times instead of 100 times. Yeah that's so much better. Making it go artificially quicker is completely different to creating mechanics that open up more options to tackle the raid.
I don't have JTR, I never used the Han exploit. These changes are irrelevant to me. My gripes have always been the same. 1) challenge gear in raids. 2) this raid it's boring. These changes will not change that.
JTR isn't the problem, Expose isn't the problem, percentages, health, damage- none of that is the problem. They SEEM to be the problem because the way the raid is designed. They SEEM out of proportion because the raid nullifies 95% of toon negative mechanics. You can't honestly believe Nihilis is balanced, and a mere health tweak will fix it. Sure, you may SEEM to get more damage out of non JTR teams, but it's still flinging toons against the wall. If no abilities affect it, due to ridiculous Tenacity stacking, there is no theory crafting, there is no point if synergy between toons, there is no point at all.
Edit: Also, to the guy who stated CG wants roster diversity... running more teams jist for the sake of more teams isn't diversity. Allowing more effective teams based in skills that actually may work is.
not difficult =/= easy ?
i'm fine with the who cares folder. Point is that while it may be true for you personally, it's definately not true for everyone commenting in this thread, i hope you realize that. If straight up dmg could do 5% dmg it would have been alot less anoying that other mechanics didn't "work".
Lets take wedge lead rebels for example, it works ! You can make it all the way to enrage with them due to the healing on crit. It's kinda fun to use, unfortunately it does so little damage that it becomes not fun.
Or Phoenix in phase 1, which felt great because their resilience felt like I was hitting on something that was supposed to work - but then clocked in garbage damage because of the protection mechanic. STR robs me of these little victories.
Tank and Rancor felt gratifying because there was a pretty clear line between "teams that actually work" and "teams that clearly don't work". But certain parts of STR in particular, the line between "didn't work" and "did work" is a couple hundred thousand damage while watching them dismantle your team.
I know the best fit teams will be found, but it was quite nice to have one team that could clearly perform well, even if your other attempts didn't pan out.
There's theory crafting, there's a point in having synergy. You're just too caught up to recognize it. Partly because JTR blew evertying out of the water, wich made it seem like any other team was pretty much useless in comparrison. JTR did so because of two things. 1) exposes dealt a rediculous amount of dmg. 2) her exposes were unresistable. Remove one of the 2 and it's just an above average team.
Clearly if the health were lower there would be less complaints. For me personally, dropping health so I have to use 1-2 less teams isn't going to make the raid any more enjoyable or make me want to spend any time on it.
What they designed the raid for was engagement. People aren't feeling engaged. That's a problem. A slight health drop is unlikely to fix that and even a large health drop would do little other than make the raid just another thing to do rather than something to enjoy.
Yes some would be happy with less health and extra damage, but I'm not one of them if it's repetitive and boring.
Hey, no argument from me there ! I'm not saying the raid is perfect.
The slight drop in health ins't going to solve all the problems players have with this raid, but can we atleast agree that the incredibly large health pool is the main reason people complain? Look at viserys' post, another great example of the dmg being so low that it makes using the team unfun. There are probably quite a few examples out there of teams that actually work, but aren't recognized as working teams because the dmg is so gosh darn low. (especially compared to the numbers JTR was pulling). It's all relative. RTJ isn't more fun to use, but seeying those 10m+ scores makes her way more fun to use.
I think the drop in health will encourage people to at least try again, but at best it might be a short term spike of interest when everything else remains the same.
What else really needs to be done atleast from a perception pov is either change the lower tier raids to reflect the recommended toons or just get rid of it so people can't see the recommendations.
I think people are weary. We all remember the jump from NAAT to HAAT and how nothing worked and we had to relearn what worked in HAAT. Because of this nobody (at least in my guild) finds theory crafting worthwhile on lower tiers. Most are content to hang back, wait for other people to figure it out then stsrt working on the toons from there.
But mainly just change the recommendations. Nothing fans the flames more than people feeling they're being misled.
Who the fudge cares about the freaking recommendations? That's just something you blame when things go south. Sure, they don't make sence, but they never made sence. But seriously, that's like the last thing they need to worry about.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161408/content-update-hf-upcoming#latest
I'm not even going to go into it other than say perception is reality. I know that doesn't fit with your style of making sweeping generalisation but hey, there's plenty of posts in this thread alone of people frustrated with the recommendations.
You can dismiss them all you want, but an angry and frustrated player is still angry and frustrated even if you don't approve of their reasoning.
TM reduction is what allows raids to be soloed, not debuffs, so why not single that out and fix it?
You're almost there. JTR wasn't better than other teams because of expose, other teams were worse because the mechanics stifled their use. Making everybody worse is never an option.
I don't even have JTR and I can see this.
You could have just said they haven't dropped it yet, but thanks for the link!